Info on Celtic Instruments

Subject: Info on Celtic Instruments
From:
Date: 25 Mar 98 - 02:29 AM

I need some info on Celtic insrtuments preferably the Celtic harp. Please bear in mind I have absolutely nil information on these instruments.

It would be nice if some one could give me 1. a description of it - size etc... 2. price 3. how difficult is it to play/ skills needed FYI I play the piano too. Any other info will be appreciated.

Thanx in advance. Gloria

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From:
Date: 25 Mar 98 - 10:24 AM

Gloria: There is no single "celtic harp." There is the Irish Harp, which is strung with brass strings and played with the fingernails. There is the neo-Irish harp, strung with nylon and played with the fingerpads. There is the Welsh harp in various forms (double, triple. I suppose there must be a "simple" or "single," but have no confirmation of it.)

The wire-strung Irish harp was specifically identified as Irish by M. Praetorius in his book on instruments (around 1619.) I'm not sure to what extent the harps of other people who spoke Celtic languages can be distinguished from the harps of lands where Celtic languages were not spoken.

Sorry this information isn't more precise. A good place to start your own researches would be with books by the scholar Mary Remnant. You can follow the citations from there to find other works.

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Jon W.
Date: 25 Mar 98 - 05:57 PM

Here are some links to websites of places that sell Irish, neo-Irish, and other types of folk harps. There are a wide variety of styles, sizes, and prices.

Folk Mote

Lark in the Morning Also sell just about all other celtic instruments.

Stoney End

MusicMaker Kits (also sell finished harps)

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Susan of DT
Date: 25 Mar 98 - 07:40 PM

You might want to subscribe to the Folk Harp Journal, a publication of the International Society of Folk Harpers and Craftsmen. Theie magazine has lots of ads from harpmakers as well as articles. You can e-mail them at [e-mail]

There is also a Welsh Harp Society and a Scottish harp Society and a listserv.

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 25 Mar 98 - 08:37 PM

The Ceolas Instrument site also provides excellent intros to a variety of Celtic instruments, including harp.

http://celtic.stanford.edu/instruments/

Regards John

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Helen
Date: 26 Mar 98 - 05:48 PM

Hi, Sorry I'm late getting into this thread - been a bit flat out lately (i.e. that translates to "being busy", in Oz language). There is an excellent harp mailing list. Contact [e-mail] and ask to subscribe either to the individual e-mail messages (approx 20-30 per day) or to the digest format. The address to reply or post messages is [e-mail].

You can also look up The Harp Page for lots of links, as well as finding the archive of previous threads.

http://www.tns.lcs.mit.edu/harp/

They are a lovely bunch of people - only ever met one in the flesh - but virtual contact has been truly life-enhancing, just like the Mudcatters here.

I play a Celtic lever harp, 34 strings, nylon strung. some people use the traditional gut strings - more mellow sound, but a bit more temperamental in response to the weather I think.

Let me know if you want any more info. *See* you at the harp-list perhaps.

Helen

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 26 Mar 98 - 06:31 PM

Helen,

There is nothing quite like playing with other muso's to get you inspired to pick up a new instrument, which I try to do every few years. Played a few times with Andy Rigby when I was living down South, and hence always had a yearning to seriously try harp. What is the entry level cost for an instrument like yours in Australia?

Regards John

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Susan of DT
Date: 04 Apr 98 - 10:20 AM

Refresh for small harp quiry

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Peter Fröhlich
Date: 04 Apr 98 - 02:02 PM

Hi, I have a celtic Harp. I m just a beginner, but I like that kind of Harp. The size is somthing about 1meter 11 high. It is a handy Size, You can carry it in a car . The instrument cost You somthing about 4000 Swiss Franks. I got the Harp from Scottland. Visit the website: htt://www.starfish.u-net.com Here You can have moore information here. Maybe You will mail to me. [e-mail]

Greetings from Peter Fröhlich

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Helen
Date: 04 Apr 98 - 04:20 PM

Hi John

I've had a lot of trouble getting into the Mudcat site over the last week or so, so thanks to Susan, your enquiry has been put to the top of the list again.

It's hard to say how much a harp costs here - I'm not up to date on the prices over the last few years, but I think if you get a small/lap harp e.g. 22 strings with levers under $AU500 you are doing well. There are some strange harps around - traps for the unwary (e-mail me privately for more info - but mostly the makers are very good.

When I get my business into income-producing mode I intend to check out Bruce Lemin's harps in Canberra. From e-mail discussions he seems to know what he is doing in making harps, and he has been very highly recommended to me by a few harp people.

[e-mail]

I had a leaflet from Jacqueline Spring in Melbourne and her harps seem to be reasonably priced and come highly recommended by another "harplister" (harp mailing list member). On the other end of the scale you can get some extremely impressive looking instruments which are made from expensive woods, beautifully carved and finished for a much higher price.

Hope this helps. Also check out the current thread about buying a small harp.

Helen

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From:
Date: 05 Apr 98 - 09:46 AM

Helen, There is a guy in Tasmania who makes celtic harps. He is a fairly well-known local character who busks with one of his products. I saw him when I was in Hobart recently. The instrument was beautiful to look at. I don't know much about harps, so I don't know how it would be to play.

It was the Saturday market day when I saw him and unfortunately there was also a Chillean group and a New Age group that were both amplified, so it was hard to really hear the instrument.

Murray

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Gloria Tham
Date: 17 Apr 98 - 01:56 AM

Sorry for taking such a long time to answer and thank all of you. I had difficulty getting here. I'll get back to you all after I've checked out the sites you all have pointed me to. Gloria

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Gloria
Date: 29 Apr 98 - 02:25 AM

Helen : I searched out the thread about buying a harp. You said that the lesser the strings the harp has, the more difficult to play it... Just asking why? You did recommend harps that have more than 29 strings.

I don't think I'll be able to buy a harp in my country but if I study overseas I might. So I'm just stocking up on info.

Gloria

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Helen
Date: 29 Apr 98 - 09:15 AM

Gloria,

The minimum number of strings I think I would like is 26 (not 29). The reason that it is more difficult to play with less strings is because you need to have enough octaves to fit in a reasonable accompaniment - arpeggios or chord patterns or left hand arrangements without getting your left and right hands tangled up in the same octaves. With most tunes you can run into 2 octaves by playing the range of chords in a song, (e.g. CMaj = chords of C, F & G, GMaj = chords of G, C & D and each chord has a minimum of 3 notes, i.e. the first, third & fifth note) and many melodies will run over more than an octave, often as much as 2 octaves. My 34 string has almost 5 octaves and I admit that I don't use the lowest octave that much, and rarely use the few highest notes, so I think that 4 octaves would do me fairly well.

If you have less than 3.5 - 4 octaves you have to be really creative in your arrangements, keeping them very tightly within your range of octaves and it would put pressure on a new harp player to do tight arrangements *and* learn how to play.

If you think of a piano keyboard, most piano players get very frustrated if you get them to play keyboards with very few octaves because of the same problems - i.e. overlapping the melody notes with the left hand accompaniment notes.

Hope this helps Helen

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Gloria
Date: 29 Apr 98 - 10:26 AM

Helen Okay. I did think of that.. having too few octaves to play with. It is very frustrating. That's why I always prefer a piano to a keyboard.

From all the information I've been through, what I understand is that the main differences between harps are the number of strings and with or without levers? (of course not to mention size and price as well) Whether they are called Celtic/Welsh or anything else, are they are quite the same though the sound might be different. Am I correct on this?

I understand that the levers are very useful for tuning and playing pieces of different keys. (Quite a lot recommend Loveland levers)Is it like the whole instrument is transposed into a different pitch instead of tuning the strings one by one? Is this correct too?

Gloria

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Helen
Date: 30 Apr 98 - 11:40 PM

Hi Gloria

Firstly, non-pedal harps are all pretty much the same except that they may or may not have levers, and they can be either nylon or gut strung, or they can be wire strung (different playing technique for nylon/gut and wire).

There is a harp called a Welsh triple harp which actually has three rows of strings and is therefore chromatic - every note can be played without flipping levers or using pedals. I've never seen one and they probably take a while to get used to but they have their advantages, I think. Robin Huw Bowen, a Welsh harp player, plays one of these.

Levers: Yes, I have heard that Loveland levers are good, but I don't know what they look like or how they work. I had an American friend who had a Triplett Celtic 34 string - best harp I have ever heard, people over here in Oz still rave abot how wonderful it was - but it had blade levers and these used to scrape the strings until they broke. The sound was clear and a good tone from the lvers but she spent a lot on replacing strings.

Levers and changing key: Each lever can raise the note on the string by a semitone, which means that if you tune your harp with all levers in the neutral position to the key of E-flat (3 flats) you can then get 3 keys with 3, 2, or 1 flats, one with no flats & sharps (Cmajor) and 3 with 1, 2, or 3 sharps, without having to retune the strings. If you have four or five octaves and have to retune one or more strings in each octave it becomes a long slow process even with an electronic tuner and the rest of the musicians will probably pack up and go home in the meantime. Sessions are the worst because everyone jumps around from tune to tune and from key to key, without any forewarning, and without telling anyone what key they are playing in.

Helen

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Suibhan
Date: 04 May 98 - 10:39 PM

Hello, Gloria and anyone else out there. I have recently acquired and am learning to play a small lever harp (or Celtic harp, Irish harp, whatever you want to call it). I am finding it challenging but fun and very worthwhile. I urge you to give it a try. Harps are forgiving instruments and harpers are very nice. I am surprised at how friendly, helpful and encouraging everyone is. No matter where you live, you will be able to buy everything through the mail and the cyber community is happy to give you advice.

I think this is true of every instrument - you will want a pretty nice harp to start out with. Don't buy a cheap thing just because you are a beginner. A good harp that holds its tune well and has a beautiful tone is at least 1/4 of the battle!

Suibhan

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Gloria Tham
Date: 07 May 98 - 09:16 AM

Thanks Helen. Here are some other questions : What are the pedals used for? How it is used? Anything similar to the piano? Hi, Suibhan. Thanks for the encouragement. I'd sure love to buy a good one cos I'm quite picky about how some thing sounds. The big problem is I'm only still a student and my part time jobs don't pay much. Furthermore, even if I can afford the instrument (buying on-line/ mail order), I won't be able to afford the import tax (100% of the value) my country imposes on musical instruments. What a pity! Don't you think?

Gloria PS What do you mean by 'the harp is a forgiving instrument'?

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Suibhan
Date: 09 May 98 - 02:34 AM

The pedals are for changing keys and are at the bottom of the harp. On a lever harp, levers are used for this purpose and are found at the top of the strings.

Too bad about your import tax! Try looking into kits - you can buy a harp in various states of completion and build it yourself. You might also avoid the import tax this way, it's worth asking. Or you might be able to buy a used one from someone in your country.

By forgiving, I mean that the harp has a very pretty sound with only a modest effort. Just plucking the strings is fun and produces a pleasing sound, unlike say, a violin. Even a simple song such as "All Through The Night" is nice to listen to after just a couple of practice sessions. I don't think you can say this of many instruments.

Suibhan

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Helen
Date: 09 May 98 - 08:09 AM

Gloria,

I agree with Suibhan about investigating kit harps. I bought the plans, levers other hardware and strings form Mountain Glenn/Markwood harps and an instrument maker in my city built it for me, but if you are handy with woodworking or know someone who is it may be the best solution. The import tax to Australia from America was very small on the plans & hardware, compared with what it would have been on a complete harp.

By the way, which country are you from? Suibhan & I have been having very friendly harp-related cross-Pacific (or cross-Atlantic, depending which direction you are facing) email chats since we *met* at Mudcat and started talking about harps.

Helen

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Bruce O.
Date: 09 May 98 - 07:00 PM

The recent Celtic Music craze seems to have revived interest in Celtic harps, but not soon enough for The Two Sisters in Ohio that made them and used to sponsor Fiona Ritchie's program. They are out of business and their wood working equiptment has been sold. I heard yesterday that one of them is still interested in the subject, but that's all.

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: Gloria Tham
Date: 14 May 98 - 04:09 AM

Hi Helen and Suibhan, Thanks a lot for putting up with all my questions. I'm living in Malaysia. How I got to know about the import tax was from a complaint to a newspaper about such high taxes even though the country is trying to promote such arts.

I might have trouble with the harp kits. I only know very basic woodworking. I am still looking around for one.

I think I understand what 'forgiving' means. My neighbour plays a Chinese stringed instrument. It sounded so terrible during her first few months..strangled cat sounds..as described. At least the harp isn't like that.

Gloria

Subject: RE: Info on Celtic Instruments
From: GUEST,cecile
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 03:54 AM

I have been reading all your comments, but I have heard there is someone here in Launceston Tasmania who is holding "Build your own Celtic Harp" and also gives lessons. Does any one know about this. I would appreciate all comments