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Back injury / glucosamine sulphate

John J at home 11 Mar 02 - 04:31 AM
GUEST,john from Hull 11 Mar 02 - 04:52 AM
nutty 11 Mar 02 - 07:04 AM
John J 11 Mar 02 - 09:07 AM
kendall 11 Mar 02 - 09:20 AM
Uncle_DaveO 11 Mar 02 - 09:55 AM
Gypsy 11 Mar 02 - 11:41 AM
Morticia 11 Mar 02 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,native 11 Mar 02 - 04:42 PM
harpgirl 11 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM
Ian Darby 11 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM
John Hardly 11 Mar 02 - 09:05 PM
GUEST,Martin Nearing 11 Mar 02 - 09:51 PM
ddw 11 Mar 02 - 10:02 PM
John J 12 Mar 02 - 07:44 AM
Dani 12 Mar 02 - 08:48 AM
JenEllen 12 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM
JenEllen 12 Mar 02 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Martin Nearing 12 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM
Arnie 12 Mar 02 - 04:22 PM
sheila 12 Mar 02 - 04:43 PM
JenEllen 12 Mar 02 - 04:58 PM
JenEllen 12 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM
John J 13 Mar 02 - 09:54 AM
Fortunato 13 Mar 02 - 10:12 AM
Metchosin 13 Mar 02 - 01:05 PM
53 13 Mar 02 - 10:48 PM
Jon Freeman 13 Mar 02 - 11:02 PM
GUEST 13 Mar 02 - 11:21 PM
John J 15 Mar 02 - 05:00 AM
John J 15 Mar 02 - 05:07 AM
John J 22 Mar 02 - 11:56 AM
Roger in Sheffield 22 Mar 02 - 12:23 PM
Roger in Sheffield 22 Mar 02 - 12:55 PM
Roger in Sheffield 22 Mar 02 - 01:06 PM
John J 22 Mar 02 - 01:26 PM
Mr Red 22 Mar 02 - 05:50 PM
jup 22 Mar 02 - 10:33 PM
53 22 Mar 02 - 10:39 PM
Hawker 23 Mar 02 - 07:22 AM
Hawker 23 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM
Celtic Soul 23 Mar 02 - 03:44 PM
catspaw49 23 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,FORTUNATO RISING 24 Mar 02 - 08:17 AM
GUEST,FORTUNATO RISING 24 Mar 02 - 08:19 AM
Hawker 24 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM
Bearheart 24 Mar 02 - 04:59 PM
John J 25 Mar 02 - 01:09 PM
Bearheart 25 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 02 - 11:57 PM
John J 26 Mar 02 - 07:37 AM
GUEST 27 Mar 02 - 05:14 AM
GUEST 02 Apr 02 - 06:56 PM
GUEST 05 Apr 02 - 12:04 AM
GUEST 05 Apr 02 - 11:15 PM
53 05 Apr 02 - 11:23 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 06 Apr 02 - 08:14 AM
GUEST 07 Apr 02 - 01:43 AM
GUEST 10 Apr 02 - 12:28 AM
John J 10 Apr 02 - 07:46 AM
GUEST 11 Apr 02 - 01:21 AM
GUEST,Tony 18 Mar 08 - 06:37 PM
GUEST,Chicken Charlie 18 Mar 08 - 07:32 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Mar 08 - 07:55 PM
jacqui.c 19 Mar 08 - 08:45 AM
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Subject: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J at home
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:31 AM

Sorry but this is non-musical.

As one or two of my Mudcat friends already know, I have a problem with running (I like doing it).

This has caused a lower back injury resulting in sciatica. I'm due a course of treatment at the local physiotherapy dept, but as this is a recurring problem I really need some impartial and informed advice.

Where better to ask for advice than the Mudcat.

This episode is far more painful and longer lasting than any previous ones. I exercise gently, following recognised physio-type exercises. I rest a lot although I'm not too good at that, the pain makes me rest.

I take Ibruprofen and I have just started taking glucosamine sulphate to help the injury repair.

There is a very limited amount of non-commercial (and therefore quite biased) information available on the web regarding the use and benefits of this supplement.

Is anybody out there in Mudcatland able to advise? Any help or advice on back problems would be more than welcome.

Thanks loads,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,john from Hull
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:52 AM

Hi John, i take Glucosamine Sulphate for knee problems (I have arthritis in my knees) i started taking it last winter and it made a big difference, the pain is still there but not as severe, I don't need to take as much Nurufen as I used to.I get my Glucosamine Sulphate from Superdrug, have a look if there is a branch near you (it is a lot cheaper than the local pharmacit).john


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: nutty
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 07:04 AM

Unfortunately Glucosamine Sulphate didn't work for me ....I felt no benefit at all but a daily Cod liver Oil tablet does keep these old bones (rheumatoid arthritis) moving.
I also have a back problem (degeneration of the spine) and find aqaua-fit (exercising in deep water) gives a tremendous amount of relief, without putting any pressure on my back ....... there are sessions at most swimmimg pools/leisure centres.
Also regular swimming can be of great benefit.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:07 AM

Thanks John, I'll try Superdrug. Are you aware of the specific benefits that you get from glucosamine sulphate? ie what it actually does.

Nutty: I take cod liver oil also, and have done for some years. Your back problems sound similar to the description my doctor gave me for my back. I do a bit of swimming, but I find I can't do too much because of the pain. I managed 3.5 lengths last week; I would normally swim 30-409 lengths.

I wonder if this will ever get better.

Thanks,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: kendall
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:20 AM

G.S. has made a big difference in my life. Went from constant joint pain to mild discomfort.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:55 AM

Glucosamine sulphate for arthritis is helpful only for osteoarthritis. Rheumatoid arthritis, although it has a similar name, is another thing entirely.

I have some osteoarthritis problems with my hips, and GS has been a real help.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Gypsy
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 11:41 AM

Glucosamine rebuilds cartelidge. We often recommend it in the chiropractic office i work in. However, i don't think it will be particularly efficacious for sciatica...that is a different problem. I would try chiropractic, and excercise for that. "How to treat your own Back" by Robin MacKenzie has specific excercises for sciatica. Also, look at your shoes, are there lumps? Carry your wallet in your back pocket? QUIT it! especially if driving, it will tilt your pelvis and mess up that sciatic nerve.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Morticia
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 12:02 PM

John, I have a degenerative back condition( facet joint syndrome) and did try Glucosamine.......didn't find it helped all that much. I don't know what you do for a living but beware the Office Chair.......them wee beasties , if set up badly, can do an awful lot of damage.Get a work station assessment from your company, if appropriate, don't sit for long periods of time,take gentle exercise although swimming is one you should be a little careful of if you tend to do breast stroke as that arches your back in an unnatural way ( well, it does mine, anyway).


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,native
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:42 PM

I believe that coumadin is good for Arthitis,you need a doc prescriphion and his concent


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM

...at Will McLean Fest this weekend a lady told me she had terrible sciatica and that acupressure and other combinations of holistic medicine helped her more than all the pain medicine from allopathic physicians...


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Ian Darby
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM

Dear John.

Never thought I'd write a 'Dear John' letter.

I believe Picnogynol (probably spelt it wrong) is very good for repairing damaged cartilage etc, it might be worth a try.

Also, have a word with Bernard at the place where our kid gets his vitamins and supplements from.

He's got loads of info on this kind of thing, he won't steer you wrong, and you'll get a discount if you tell him we sent you.

Give me a ring if you want any more info.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:05 PM

John,
A topic dear to my heart. I'm a runner too and I currently depend on Glucosamine to keep me on the road. I have torn cartilage in my knee and have to this point avoided surgery. I'm back to four mile runs after about 2 months of complete inability to run. A few thoughts from my own experience and research;

1.Glucosamine will not grow new cartilage.
2.You may find that it will honestly take a month of steadily taking it before you feel any benefits. This was my experience. As an interesting aside, I also have shoulders that are so bad I rarely was able to sleep through the night. When I play guitar for a half hour or more my shoulder pain would nearly bring tears to my eyes (great when I'm playing for someone -- they assume I'm "into" the sad ones). Anyway, the glucosamine I was taking for my knee has almost completely aleviated my shoulder pain.
3. Chondroitin(sp) as an addition is non-effective as it passes through the body too fast to be metablized. It only adds unnecessary cost to the glucosamine -- buy the glucosamine by itself.
4. Take MSM with the glucosamine -- I do it 'cause my wife tells me to and I always listen to her.
5. Speaking of my wife -- she was layed up from running with back pain similar to yours. She is a runner -- seriously! -- she has sub 39 min 10K and sub 20 min 5K times. After years of consulting numerous orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists, the best results she ever had was from deep massage and acupuncture.

Good luck. I do think it's worth a try -- it has been for me.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,Martin Nearing
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:51 PM

Glucosamine(500Mils)should be taken with(400mils)of chondroitin sulfate to work.You can buy it mixed in one capsule.It worked for my sciatica and as previously stated ,makes your cartilege grow faster than you wear them out.If you have Rheumatoid Arthritis here is my cure.1000 mils.flax seed oil...50 mils. zink...1000 mils MSM(this is the newest wonder Element and causes no harm as its natural).I also take Cal-Mag with vitamin D.Must have vitamin D in order for body to absorb the Magnesium.About 15 months ago I got arthritis in both knees so bad I couldnt sleep and 1 week after taking the above herbs and vitamins I was fine.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: ddw
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 10:02 PM

John,

I've been using glucosamine sulfate and condroitin sulfate in combination for quite a while and find it works wonders for my arthritic hands, elbows and knees. But I also have some disk degeneration on my spine and occasionally have a round with sciatica from that. The GS/CS will lubricate and and rebuild joints, but do nothing to regenerate disks or relieve the pressure on the nerve that causes sciatica.

A very simple thing I do — which several other people have tried and all agreeded it helped — is just find a playground bar (or even the floor above as you're going down some steps) and hang like you're going to do chin-ups.

I find it stretches my back and takes the pressure off the sciatic nerve.

good luck,

david


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:44 AM

Thanks for all your very informative and most interesting replies.

Gypsy: re your comments on sciatica not being reduced by taking glucosamine sulphate. I wouldn't expect glucosamine sulphate to touch sciatica, but perhaps it would help reduce the cause of the sciatica. I use the Robin McKenzie exercises, I have 'Treat you own back', a very good book.

John Hardly: Your comment are very interesting, particularly regarding massage. I went to a sports therapist recently. she said a lot of my pain was caused by my UPPER back being in spasm ('like an eleastic band'). Massage helped a bit, but at that point the injury itself was the main pain.

I'm going to go through all your comments and I'll post more specific replies later today.

Thanks once again for your replies, at least you've all given me some hope that this pain may one day subside and that running can once again be taken seriously.

Cheers,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Dani
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:48 AM

Don't laugh, OK?

My dog, a six-year-old golden retriever, developed pain in back/hips that made it tough and painful for him to move. Vet suggested glucosamine complex before more expensive/extensive attempts at solutions. After a few weeks, it slowly improved, and now he's back to normal, and we keep him on a maintenance dose. My understanding is that this stuff was originally USED successfully in animals, and we're just catching on. I also had difficulty finding unbiased info, but my dog is pretty impartial ; )

Dani


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM

Yes Dani, we've been using the stuff on dogs and horses for years now. (With great benefit) I'll let you in on the secret I told John, TALK TO YOUR VET!!! We sell huge 4lb buckets of synoflex/equi-flex/whatever for horses, with the dosages modified for dogs. All of the human runners in our clinic use the stuff as well. It comes in a powdered for for use in sprinkling over horse feed, but a spoonfull mixed in OJ or chocolate milk and you can't tell. Anyhow, the buckets are a lot cheaper than anything humans can shove into a pill form, and it is the same supplements. Only advice is to NOT take MSM while taking Vitamin C supplements. The onlt real side-effect with MSM/C is that you'll be glad you are a runner when it comes time to make tracks for the bathroom....
Happy Trails,
~Jen


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:52 PM

Equi-Flex (for pricing)


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,Martin Nearing
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM

John Hardly,I dont know where you got your information on Crondroitin,but three of the most respected MD,s in the U.S. that practise holistic medicine,namely Dr,s Whittaker,Williams and Phillips recomend you that you take crondroitin.Personally I had no success until I did .I also take Vitamin C & E with MSM and it got rid of my Arthritis.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Arnie
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:22 PM

John,

I suffered for a few years from a slipped disc which stopped my running days! However, I finally decided to see a physiotherapist and she has worked wonders on my back. The problem is that scar tissue builds up around the injury and this is weak stuff that is prone to go at any time. The longer you put off seeing the physio, the more scar tissue builds up. the physio will break down the scar tissue and replace this with healthy muscle tissue that should ensure your back stays in place. By all means take the various supplements but DO see a physio asap - I'm glad I did!


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: sheila
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:43 PM

Pardon my ignorance - what's MSM?


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:58 PM

MSM is methylsulfuonylmethane. It's a sulfur supplement that promotes cellular elasticity and regeneration. Along with that, it is considered a bit of a pain reliever in that it reduces inflammation, so if your pain is caused by muscular inflammation, it can be a real bonus in helping you to get off pain medication.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM

...that should be methylsulfonylmethane....see why you should just stick to "MSM"? LOL


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 09:54 AM

Arnie: thanks for your advice re the physio....my appointment is in 3 weeks, with the chance of a taking a cancellation to make it earlier.

Jen: Has anybody told you that you're a wonderful woman? Well they should, 'cos you are! The information you have provided me with has prompted my to send out enquiries to the local horse doctor / equine type suppliers. Watch this space! I don't take a vitamin C supplement, rather I rely on a vitamin C rich diet...loads of fresh fruit & vegetables.

Cheers,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Fortunato
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:12 AM

Gypsy said it! I am a runner and have had the condition you mention. Remove your wallet from your back pocket. Perform the (On your back) leg over to the side stretches and knees to chest stretches your doctor can recommend or PM me and I will detail them for you. Back and leg stretches are the secret. Take the Glucosomine, it can't hurt! You will be repairing other cartilege that is wearing in your knees and elsewhere even if it hasn't caused you a problem yet, age and exercise are at work. Glucosomine works for me. Cheers, Chance


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:05 PM

For any one else who suffers from sciatica and is not injured to the point of requiring physio

The following method was recommended to me by a message therapist, to relieve pain in the sciatic nerve, while I was on a gruelling 6 day backpacking trip (you can do this in mid hike or run while fully geared up):

Locate the sciatic nerve in your buttock (you will know the exact spot, because when you apply pressure to it with your fingertips, the localized point will be incredibly painful) Find a protruding sharp stick or pointed rock at the appropriate height, and lean against it with all your weight, allowing it to poke you right at the nerve point in your backside. (This really hurts at first, but keep leaning and the pain will gradually subside) and....Voila! a quick fix!

Also before starting out and after your run, do the following stretch (hard to describe but I'll try)

Sit on the floor with your one leg crooked in front of you, with the heel of your foot tucked in towards your crotch and the other leg crooked behind you. Supporting your upper body with your hands and your trunk aligned over your thigh and crooked knee, lean forward and lower your upper body towards the floor and hold the stretch. Repeat with the other leg crooked in front. If you are doing this correctly, you should feel this in the area of the buttock around the sciatic nerve.

Ditto re Jon Hardly's info regarding glucosamine sulphate.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: 53
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:48 PM

What are the side effects?


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:02 PM

I'm not sure why a thread was also started in the Annexe but this was Pip's post there:


Pip Freeman

Posted - 3/11/2002 8:54:57 PM

Glucosamide Sulphate is proving very effective in the treatment of arthritic conditions. It helps to improve the condition of the stuctures aound the joint, ie ligaments and tendons, and helps in the prodution of synovial fluid, (naturally produced joint lubricant) It is to be preferred to the anti-inflammatory drugs, as it has no known side-effets.

John, has your friend seen a doctor other than his GP to find a reason for his back pain, any X-rays? GPs do tend to dismiss arthritis with the "you must learn to live with it" comment. That always makes me cross; you may not be able to reverse actual structural damage to arthritic joints, but there are ways of improving the conditon of the joint and structures round it, improving mobility and pain relief, management etc.

I may be a bit biased here, but a good physiotherapist can give very good advice on the managment of back problems, and good treatment too. Often a GP has a physio attached to his practice.

There is a very good book called "Treat your own back" by R.McKenzie--probably available in libraries. I do recommend it.

Pip

Edited By Pip Freeman - 3/11/2002 9:16:15 PM


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:21 PM

I started athread at The Annexe about this, I am too drunk to attemt a link but there was some good ansers especially froim Pip Freeman (Johns Mum) she is a phisiopherapist.I will make a link tomorow, It is 4Am in the morning here.john


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 05:00 AM

Jon, and everybody else who has taken the time to contribute, thanks. The help and advice I've received has been invaluable. I've also had very good information from the Annexe, thanks to John in Hull, and especially Pip.

Thanks again,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 05:07 AM

And thanks again to Jen for the equine / canine therapy advice. I'm a little concerned that I've stared going around sniffing dogs' bums and also developing a taste for hay, but what the hell! Metchosin: thanks for that tip. I also walk quite a lot, having a heavy pack and being stranded in the middle of nowhere is a worry. That tip could save me. John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:56 AM

An update!

I've been using Glucosamine Sulphate along with all the help and advice I've received. I'm also using an infra red heat source for 2 x 15min sessions a day (for the last 4 days). I've JUST had the best night sleeps for two months!

I'll keep you updated.

Thanks all.

Woof!

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 12:23 PM

On Radio 4 yesterday GS was mentioned by someone in a phone in about Hip Replacements. The surgeon seemed quite positive about it, saying that taking GS wouldn't do any harm and seemed to help some people. He said it was expensive and that it seemed to work better in combination with something else (not sure what it was)- but if I can get the darn speakers here working I will trawl through the program again to see if I can make it out


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 12:55 PM

OK the program should be available to listen to with real player at this link until next weeks program overwrites it R4 Checkup
Drag the time index to start at 14.22 (ends around 16.00) unless you want the low down on joint replacement. Glucosamine and Condroyatin (not sure of the spelling) are what the surgeon says are used together.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:06 PM

Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate

WOOF ! has a whole different meaning in some places JOHN J
ROFLOL
I ain't gonna explain it :)


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:26 PM

Well you know what we Lancastrians say about those from Cheshire!! :-)

Thanks for the references Roger, I'll go and have a look-see.

Cheers,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:50 PM

When I had sciatica I went to the chiropractor as the quack could only quack platitudes but give her her due she spent 30 minutes asking the questions and 30 mins manipulating. So we established that doing a somersault from a motorbike buried in a car's back wing and landing on my back in my youth was the genesis of the misplaced disk pinching the nerve that put the pain elsewhere.
Obvious once you are forced to survey the history.
I was lucky with the motorbike/car and lucky with her, she spent about 5 sessions and I never got sciatica since (14 years now).
As an engineer I was more interested in her technique and there is no doubt she shifted a vertabra.
If the physio is not moving the offending disk then the nerve will stay trapped. Chiropractors don't come cheap & mine was recommended by a trusted friend but it did the trick.
I know you don't want to hear this but my hip problems (more recent) changed for the better when I gave-up badminton and upped my ceilidh dancing. It is all about loading and stress. Running may not stress the joints as much as badminton but I bet it has a higher accumulated loading in the balls & sockets.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: jup
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:33 PM

John J, Like a lot of runners I see you are likely to have very tight leg and back muscles. Try a good yoga teacher,someone who can work slowly to stretch your hamstrings,calves,quads,psoas,buttocks,etc. work with your phisio to reduce the inflamation,try not to over do things so that you keep injuring yourself. Medication is fine but remember that pain is the bodys way of reminding you not to keep hurting yourself. It might be necessary to try a few yoga classes to find one that is right for you.Strong and fast is not for you until everything is repaired. GOOD LUCK, Jup.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: 53
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:39 PM

I have a Lipoma in the right side of my lower back. It is starting to give me quite a bit of pain. I take so much other medicine that I'm afraid to try this. Hopefully my doctor will fix the problem on next weeks's visit.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Hawker
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:22 AM

My husband has an arthritic back and I have knee and hip problems, we invested VERY sceptically in a bioflow magnet which you wear on your wrist, like a wristwatch, with the magnet over the pulse. There is information on the web about the firm, type ecoflow into your search engine, we tried them because they offered your money back if they did not work. I have been wearing mine since September, I cannot say either of us are cured, and will not boast miraculous healing properties, but I can now run up stairs, I used to crawl, and I have not heard Kevin groan with his back in months, it certainly eases the pain substantially, involves no drug taking and no, I don't want my money back!

Hope this helps, pain is a horrible bedfellow!
Cheers, Lucy.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Hawker
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM

For those of you who are interested in Bioflow / Ecoflow, have attempted a clicky below - and for preople like Dani, they do a range of pet collars and horse leg wraps - the testimonials are good, but I have no personal experience myself. Hope this is of use to someone!
click here

Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 03:44 PM

Likely this has been suggested several times already, but I can only read so many posts...dinna have the time for all.

In any case, chiropractic has helped with a miriad of troubles I have suffered, to include low back pain that resulted in spasms so fierce, I can only relate them to birth pains. It has also helped me with my overall ability to concentrate, and energy. So far, it has not cured my wrinkles yet. I'll let you know.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM

HAWKER>>>>>Lucy, I don't know about that magnetism thing. Paw, with the help of the Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys, gave it a try and I gotta' tell you the result was, well, less than satisfactory for his problem, but then again, maybe it did work. Let me tell you about it.................

Paw's flattulence when combined with his passion for 'shine and hot wings used to be a big problem for him whenever his roids would flare up....so to speak...and it got to the point that little rubber donut pillows and Preparation H just weren't doing the job anymore. Clete's 6th wife was into all the weird and wacky cures so Cletus was always coming to Paw with his suggestions that he'd heard from her. When Cletus told Paw about acupuncture, he disappeared for about two weeks and I'll be damned if anyone could find him.

The Reg Boys too had their share of wacky cures for everything from the Great White North of Canada, but most of them involved bear grease and other vile and foamy liquids. Then it happened. The whole lot of them were watching my TV down in the den one night and had been subjected to at least nine hours of infomercials while they slugged down Iron City. I had learned from experience to unplug the phone and hide my credit cards on these nights which only took place when Karen was gone. I'm still paying for that quonset hut in the Aleutian Islands and I have the complete collection of Pan Flute Favorites so I have learned, albeit slowly. I think the one that finally got me was the "Great Michigan Getaway Weekend" which they bought and gave to Karen and I for an anniversary present. It was a month before I found out that they had billed it to my Visa and when we went for "rest and relaxation" in beautiful Michigan, it turned out to be clapped out motel run by a Pakistani in downtown Flint, just across from a closed GM factory.

I guess it was about 5:30 AM when Cletus woke me up and said they had the cure for Paw's hemorrhoids. This was more than I wanted or needed to know at 5:30 so after verifying that it wouldn't cost me anything, I said have at it and went back to sleep. When I woke up about 7 I had one of those vague feelings of dread. You know what I mean? Nothing was wrong that I could think of and yet I just felt the world was going to come after me that day. It turned out to be Old Man Rafferty instead....but I'll come to that.

The "boys" arrived back at my place about noon having already left when I woke at 7. They were lugging some huge electric motors into my garage and looking about for tools when I walked in and asked what the hell was going on. Cletus then launched into their "cure" and the reasoning behind it. It seems they had watched an infomercial about the "healing power of magnetism" and saw immediately that this was the way to fix Paw's 'roids. Slowly it all began to come together for me and I began to wonder how in the hell these guys could even remember how to breathe!

In any case, they'd picked up the motors from out back of Bernie's Electrical Supply and were now going to remove the large magnets inside. They idea was to cut a slit in Paw's rubber donut, insert the magnets, and then duct tape the thing back together. I noticed that Buford had an old jockstrap (with cup) that they evidently were going to use to strap the magnets to Paw's ass, again using liberal amounts of duct tape. Listening to Cletus explain all of this and their newfound theory made me begin to question my own existence, as though I really didn't exist in the world I had come to know, but was simply a bit player in a leftover Rod Serling story.

Things started going downhill pretty quickly as the magnets were removed and now were flying across my garage, affixing themselves to various steel things....like my van, my lawnmower, my golf clubs, and a little steel reinforced concrete rabbit that someone had once given us as a joke. I figured that I was going to be better off if they'd finish up somewhere else so I suggested they take all the stuff and head for the pleasant little roadside picnic area on the edge of the village where they could finish rigging Paw up and with any luck, I'd never know anything more about it. After removing the magnets, scratching the hell out of my van, breaking off the head of a 5 iron and the left ear of the rabbit, they left. The picnic area was only about a half mile off, just a bit down Rt.664 and I told them to let me know how it all worked out.

Curiosity is a terrible thing sometimes and about an hour later I grabbed my Weimaraner and his leash and set out as though I were just walking the dog. As I turned on 664 I saw the Boys all walking towards me from the little picnic grove. Paw's ass seemed to be a bit large and he was walking funny, but from a distance I could tell they must have done a good job circling his ass in magnets because outside of a slight limp and a big bulge at the rear of his bibs, Paw looked pretty normal. Then it happened. Trailing the others, Paw walked past Old Man Rafferty's mailbox, a new heavy duty steel one to foil the kids with cars and bats. He first slowed, stopped, then flew backwards and before you could say "dumbfuck" he was hanging from his ass on the mailbox. Ol' Man Rafferty was washing his aging Electra deuce and a quarter and looked up to see what was happening. By that time, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys all were tugging on either Paw or Rafferty's mailbox and though they got him off the mailbox was smashed in and the pole was a goner.

Well I tell you, Rafferty came flying down the drive, gravel spitting up from his shoes, and swearing a blue streak. Paw was laying about 10 foot up the drive where he'd landed after the force of being ripped from the mailbox sent him sailing through the air. Rafferty bent over him and started yelling in his face and Paw was trying to stand up but being weighed down by the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring. I got up there and tried to get Rafferty to calm down some as the others stood around looking bewildered. Rafferty started blaming me for allowing such "dumbass shitkickers" to stay here and how I should let them rot somewhere else. Before he could say another word, things continued to deteriorate. Paw had gotten to his feet about 15 feet from the Buick and there was a loud clanging thump as one of the hubcaps flew off and affixed itself to Paw's rump. Rafferty grabbed the hubcap and started pulling for all he was worth swinging Paw round and round in a circle. The hubcap folded and broke loose and Paw landed by the side of the road while Rafferty began to rage about his rump-sprung hubcap and twisted mailbox. I got out my checkbook and with a stern look to Cletus asked how much this would cost to keep from calling the police. The sight of my checkbook calmed Rafferty down and my Weimaraner had gone over to the side of the road and was licking Paw's face. Rafferty calculated a sum which I figured was enough to buy a new set of tires and an exhaust system for the Buick and build a brick mailbox, while forcing me nearer to bankruptcy.

Cletus and the rest were circled around me as I handed Rafferty the check and when I turned to go, I saw Paw had gotten to his feet again and was bent over stroking Jaeger's head. The dog has always had a soft spot for Paw and when I whistled for him he reluctantly came back up the drive. Bending over to pick up his leash, I heard Cletus say, "Aw Sheeitt!" Right then I couldn't imagine how things could get worse, but I looked up just in time to see Paw lifted from his feet and his ass attach to the exhaust stack of a passing Peterbilt. I watched as the truck roared off, Paw flailing around and in a blind spot where the driver couldn't see him, and the dumbass Reg boys waving "bye-bye" as the Pete rounded a curve down by the Hopewell place.

We found Paw at the truckstop at Rt.37 and I-70 where the driver had stopped for fuel. When we arrived, the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring was nowhere to be seen and Paw was sitting on a bag of ice trying to cool the burns from riding 27 miles on an exhaust stack. But I tell you what.....Perhaps it was the scar tissue from the burns that did it, but Paw hasn't had trouble with 'roids since then. Maybe there is something to the power of magnetism.....................


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,FORTUNATO RISING
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 08:17 AM

Ah, the Magnetic Ass-healing Ring. Imagine the commercial. Johnny Cash singing 'Ring of Fire'. A computer graphics 'Descent Into The Rectum'.

Is it just that I want the last word? Or is it that a noble post as that above should not be left to fester on it's own? Dare I to eat a peach? Or am I the only 'catter who dares to go recto y recto with the arch sphincterist. Or have I suddenly become fascinated by evacuation?

But one question rises, steaming, out of the cesspool...oh, shit, I forgot what it was...

Oh, yes, did you hear the one about the supercilious folkie who fell in a fat of preparation H and fucking disappeared?


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,FORTUNATO RISING
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 08:19 AM

that's vat, not fat...

how embarrasing.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Hawker
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM

Spaw!
LOL........can't say the magnets did anything for my piles - magnets are obviously in the wrong place!
Lucy


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Bearheart
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:59 PM

John,

Glad to hear that things are better. I agree with most of the recommendations here, all of them have helped various people I've known.

As a massage therapist I have worked with several modalities-- I think the Sciatic cure you were told about is probably a Trigger Point in the piriformis muscle, which muscle can cause constriction of the sciatic nerve and hence the pain.. Trigger point work can be very effective, but I suggest seeing a rolfer or structural therapist, who can anayze your posture as part of the therapy to see where else you are tight and work the appropriate tissues. As somebody said it's not always the area of pain that is the problem .Treating the whole body will often fix it for good as long as you don't do yourself an injury. It is very likely that your problem stems from an injury earlier in life that has affected your posture in general, especially when you are running.

As to glucosamine-- if you are a Blood Type O (or even B) you may be having difficulty with wheat, there is a lectin in wheat that causes arthritic like conditions in many people with Blood Type O, and glucosamine blocks the activity of that lectin. I know that when I began having severe joint pain it went away spontaneously two weeks after I went on the Blood Type diet. (As an O I stopped doing wheat, but also dairy, which is another trigger for arthritis and other autoimmune problems for some Os). I had been having continuos pain for about 4 months previos to trying the diet. If you want to try t, the best book is the newest one out called Live Right for Your Type. It includes all the scientific studies they've done, and lots of case histories. It's cheaper than the supplements and helped me improve a lot of other health problems I was having. I have way more energy now too.

Good luck!

Bekki


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for even more help & advice; I'm at the physiotherapist's Tuesday next week. I am now armed with a lot of information and I just hope the physio doesn't think I'm know-all!

I'm going to quiz the physio on any scar tissue I may have to see if that can be broken down, but in the meantime I'm stretching lots and using plenty of heat (Infra -red).

I'll report back.

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Bearheart
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM

John, depending on the scar tissue, often a massage therapist who specializes in myofascial work (rolfers and structural therapists do) can restore some or a good deal of elasticity to those tissues. Most of my experience has been working on ankle injuries, but in several cases I have been able to reduce pain and increase range of motion significantly. The last fellow I worked on had been suffering from multiple soft tissue injuries to his left ankle for the previous 7 years, , had a chronic limp that was affecting his hips due to compensatory postural changes. One hour of structural work reduced his chronic swelling to about half, and he was able to walk normally for the first time in seven years. After the second hour of work he informed me that he had decided to take on another job (he is a chef and is on his feet constantly) because he wasn't in pain any more. (Needless to say I discouraged him! but so far he seems to be holding on to gains made, though he did let the second job go for other reasons.)


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 11:57 PM

lose weight, and exercise, Exercise, EXERCISE!


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:37 AM

Thanks Guest and Bearheart. I've virtually stopped drinking beer (Aaaaaaaaagh!) and do plenty of stretching and other exercises. From tonight I'm back to the gym 3-4 times a week...it's been too painfull to go up until now. I've started cycling again, slowly and gently. Too much seems to aggravate the sciatica.

The scar tissue issue, oh what poetry, is one to explore I think. I just wonder what the physio will make of it all.

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 05:14 AM

best wishes - let us know what works - stronger abdominals help a lot.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 06:56 PM

It has been a week, are you still going to the gym?

Be strong, hang in tough, you CAN get through this!!

Be stout hearted dear chap!


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 12:04 AM

The answer is here: http://www.ncschiropractic.com/gs.htm


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:15 PM

what has worked?


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: 53
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:23 PM

What are the side effects of this medicine? I keep forgetting to ask my doctor about this and it sure does look interesting. My back just gives me fits and I'm trying to get around having surgery. Bob


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 08:14 AM

Bob, I don't think there are any side affects, but if you are already taking different tablets, mention it to your doctor just to make sure, (some medicines are fine on there own, but cause problems when taken with others).


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 01:43 AM

Works great for arthritis in the knees, don't know about the back though.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 12:28 AM

I believe G/C needs to be combined with vitamines C & E for maximum effectiveness


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 07:46 AM

Sorry for the delay in replying folks, but the latest news is:

I've been to the Physiotherapist for an assessment, treatment starts next week.

I'm taking Glucosamine Sulphate + MSM + Vit C, Calcium + D + E (taken with a teaspoon of cider vinegar in a glass of water...ugh! This helps absorption so I'm told), and Cod liver oil.

I'm doing lots of stretching exercises at the gym. Up until 10 - 14 days ago I couldn't consider the gym, such exercises were far too painfull.

The result of this (apart from any natural recovery unconnected to what I'm doing which is completely unmeasureable, as is exercising, taking supplements etc) is that I can move! The pain has considerably reduced. I sleep at night and I can now cycle or walk to work without severe pain. Things are getting much easier.

The really good news apart from reduced pain, is that I am completely off Ibruprofen.

My movement is still restricted, but not through pain. I think the physio is going to spend time stretching hamstrings and build stronger back and stomach muscles.

Whatever happens, unless I have an adverse reaction, the Glucosamine Sulphate + MSM + C and Cod Liver Oil with continue.

Thanks for all your concerns, I'll keep you updated!

Cheers,

John


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 01:21 AM

The cod-liver-oil provides the vitamin A referred to in the thread previous to yours.

The Amount of Glucosamine Produced by the Body May be Insufficient. Glucosamine is an amino sugar normally formed in humans from glucose. Glucosamine Sulphate is one of the biological chemicals that forms all the major cushioning ingredients of the joint fluids and surrounding tissues. It helps make the fluid thick and elastic. In certain cases of trauma to the tissues, the amount of Glucosamine normally produced by the body is insufficient.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:37 PM

I can't speak from inexperience, having had severe back injuries at 19, 29 49 and 60. At 29 I was hospitalised when I woke one morning with no feeling in my legs. I was taken to hospital and put in traction (16lbs on each leg)after a year of excruciating pain. I was a single parent of three children and had to keep working to 'survive".

Traction became a rack after 12 hours....I felt I was being torn apart and probably was.The nurses wouldn't take the traction off and much comedy ensued as I tried to release myself from the contraption. 10 days in traction and cortisone into my spine began to relieve it but I was off work for about a year in the next two. I wore a half cast (don't say anything ribald) for 12 months afterwards.

I am no shirker and work 'til I drop. Since 1996 that has meant earning enough in 3 months to survive 12...including helping my adult children's financial woes in an era of economic nonsense where the world bends over for the US dollar..money is being used which has no intrinsic value and US policy is enforced at the end of a WMD's.


After the last injury but one at 49 Spinal degeneration below and cervical damage along with 2 osteophytes created a bad situation and syptoms range from in ability to dress myself unless lying down to unbearable headaches with responded to nothing lasting 6 to 8 weeks at a stretch. After 3 years this began to diminish and I was doing hundred/hundreds at karate....refusing to be beaten.The obvious exacerbation was balanced by interest, success, improved self esteem and pondering a new culture which I now largely reject..I have serious doubts about the culture of martial arts unless one intellectulises it.

For 4 years having to think or listen caused such agony in my head and neck I became almost reclusive. I was taking 14 panadols per day half a dozen aspirins and 4 to 6 anti-inflamatories.At the outset, 1996, I switched to voltarin suppositories which were much more effective however for some reason I gradually moved to pills. In 2002 I was advised just by a coincidence, by a pharmacist, that 8 Panadols was maximum...that with what I was taking..'one day you might be just crossing the road and die of liver failure'. I eased back.

No doubt looking after my children from the time they were 8 months, 20 month and 36 months...from age 25.. didn't help. Carrying children and croceries is a back killer because it uses very unatural geometry and as well, in our ancestral days we'd get plenty of exercise swinging around trees and carrying no more than a couple of bananas...or a brat until it could be tossed away...but it was not usually carried on the hip.

Women carrying kids on their hips must be prime candidates for back injury. Apart from that..a matter I would not tolerate with mine...the little brats are permitted 9 times out of 10 at supermarkets and banks to run about screaming precociously, demanding this and that and create stress in the parent and everyone else around them. Stress affects lower and upper spine attached muscles and sets up the pain situation. In my view the transition from baths to shower cubicles has also been a factor.

This abuse of body and mind is particularly an African and white culture,seems a logical descendancy, such does not happen with native kids say at Vanuatu where children are often not with their parents and experience more of a village upbringing and even in teenage can be seen enjoying simple pleasures...like pushing a stick with two wheels on it, chatting and walking with friends...If a white kid did it he'd be be likely branded as a poofter-nurd and beaten up.

In closing on that subject a part of the chronic and acute suffering of whites is I think that we'd be close to extinction now were there no drug regime to call out and were we not (by advertising specialists succeeding) harboring fantasies about illness and malaise being fixed by long shot expensive "suppliments".

News of an unproven success travels like wildfire gaining momentum and quantum at every stage. Constant pain is not only depressing, it affets brain function and self esteem. Naturally we reach out however the glucosamine story is a fair indicator of how it works in general. Normally improvement starts reasonably quickly with glucosamine and then it stops or 'levels out'. It is very expensive in dollar terms which begins to create a new stress.

It may or may not improve cartilege but back condition which is typically a result of accident or years of abuse and bad diet has no miracle sure other than new parts, but one risks paraplegia or quadraplegia in the surgery.

Here are some of my suggestions:

1)Look at your life and see what you are doing to ruin yourslef..smoking, drinking, bad food, late nights, computer use, lack of exercise (8000 to 12000 steps per day is needed to maintain health)watching short attention span TV programmes with intermissions for adverts at critical points, driving long distances, not warming up before driving...and all the aspects of incorrect lifting and work positions, carrying heavy toolboxs, rolls of cable and so on.

now go cold turkey and just stop.

2)learn the art of slowly moving head back and forth three or four times then slowly side to side. The retraction of the head is the critical point and all must be slow an unviolent..ask a physio.

3)take 3 to 4 tablespoons of high quality early harvest EXTRA VIRGIN olive oil each day or have it liberally on salads ,only half a dozen olive oils world wide are of any such quality...world wide olive oil substitution and adulteration is one of the greatest financial and malfeasance scams of our era...continuing as you read this.

Viva, an Australian oil is very good but ONLY as early harvest. Cobram estate..Australian is another, Minos Kretes "Best" extra virgin and Coolavita..from Italy are the only others worth calling 'very good" and ONLY as early harvest cold pressed. You can presume all the other "extra virgin" are mediocre to awful and quite possibly through adulteration.

4) take natural cod liver oil.

5) many foods are to avoid including meat adulterated with growth hormones (chook and beef for example)pork and perhaps shellfish and commerically cooked prawns (a colouring agent is added, Avoid offal meat the worst of which is in hotdogs and frankfurts but often stuck into minced meat as well. Avoid religiously fast food and junk...try to use fructose or glucose in lieu of sucrose. Don't let adverts and kids dictate your health and theirs, Avoid "juice" Avoid gluten/peanut butter/Vegemite/Promite/bonox/stock cubes/packaged dinners of any kind/ice cream/most Pizzas...much too high in salt and chemically treated meat/MacDonalds/hungry jacks etc...avoid prawn sushi/unknown curry/barbeque and other sauce..in other words look to fresh unadulterated food whose quality you control...eat mediterranean style only eat what you comfortably NEED and only when needed rather than by the clock...

6)and where possible avoid Australian beer and wines...european beer is more protected against impurity and our wine is 999/1000 poor, citric, adulterated,acidic , tanniny and generally lousy. Look for wines which were not subject to egg and milk products, write to manufacturers asking for chemical free wine or see if your local jugoslavs or other mid europeans are making preservative free wine. Avoid christmas hams like the plague...these are injected with great quantites of chemical...that why they are wet and poor quality. By eurpean style ham made by europeans such as jugoslavs, where it is cured/pressed/smoked .pressed/smoked /pressed and so on...and is a dry ham throughout. The reason our national health is 'like sh.t is because we eat sh.t.

8) avoid soft drinks especially the dryginger and coke..if you want cola...Chinoto is better, if you want ginger, make your own ginger beer fromn fresh (not commercially powdered) ginger..but betetr to avoid all

9) avoid almost all fruit drinks...most are useless slugge called 'reconstitued with sometimes a chemical or several added. Demand and only buy pure unstrained orange juice. Definite n no is clear apple juice. Better to eat an apple, better to eat fresh fruit...I never liked it but I eat it..avoid bananas.

10)if using glucosamine I think in general the powder comes from fish and the capsules from beef.I'd always use the powder.

11) if showervig use a warm shower and try always to do a neat and slow bending in the shower with the water playng on you back.

12)try to have a bath at least once a week, exercising in it and also just getting the weight off one's feet.

13)get into and out of bed and on and off chairs slowly and with fluidity.

14)don't spare yourself in doing things other than being more conscious of warm up and sensible attention to your defect. Howling 'bad back' to avoid ANY lifting affects mind and body.

15) when using the computer often stretch and get the head staright on one's neck, walk about...don't sit there drinking tea and coffee..use pure/ filtered water...and remeber that bottled water is far from being pure....often far more contaminated than treated and filtered a tap water (whence comes most of it anyway..forget your ideas of virgin springs and shale filtered crystal purity or "spa"...that's the dream, not the reality )

16) walk at least 10,000 steps per day, don't carry weights or wear weighted shoes and do swing the arms.Sit down when tired but don't get cold if possible.

17) overweight is a back killer and poor posture a neck killer.Lear and practice god posture but in the meantime shed weight especially stomach.Try to get back to your 'best weight' Expect that to take 3 to 4 years if you want it to last, dieting is impermanent and more destructive.

18) avoid cortico steroids. I was advised this 35 years ago by the chaps who did my cortisone..three of Sydney's very best surgeons (Grant Newton and Carey)gave me their views and each of them had only two they would let 'near my (their) back'. I was told...don't have more cortisone and don't consider an operation until you are so old it doesn't matter if it fails...Since then have been advances such as disc replacement and advances in microsurgery but heed the warnings.

19)find an active interest (eg surfing, bush walking,scouting, travel...often on foot..overseas)

20) Only buy furniture for comfort. ...I would say one chair and lounge in say 500 is proerly built and comfortable. The neck should be well supported in natural seating in a lounge and dining room chaist should promote good posture but not rigidity.

21) meditate...and get the weight off your feet, often.Find a purpose in life.

22) unburden your life..travel lightly, minimise anchors around your neck...send them over the tip or if really valuable...sell them and walk away.

23)when invited to dinner tell them what you like and what you don't like...better to not be there than to getting a toxic overload...you can still be friends.It isn't ill manners to not eat what is put in front of you but it IS ill manners to not ask guest what they like and don't like. Why should I eat sheep's feet wrapped in tripe, pigs trotters, liver, brains, nose, muscles..things which revolt me just because you like to serve it up?.Why should I have a fishead in my soup or have to look at a pigs head as I eat?... Just saying.."by the way I'm a vegetarian but occasionally eat fresh deep sea fish fillet" can avoid a lot of that.In a world where one of the most polluted huge catfish from the filthy rivers of Vietnam fish "Basa" is now presented as "Dory"...one of the world's premium fish and more often than not the fish in "fish and chips as it is so cheap" you have to say to yourself "I am not going there!..I am taking quiet control of my life.

24)If their chairs are uncomfortable say "sorry" or ask if it's ok to bring your own comfortable one....you have one life and one back..take control of it in a gentle and firm way...no aggro is needed...and don't feel embarassed."would you mind terribly if I brought my own special chair along a bit early as I have areally bad back problem...I am used to it now.."

25)don't become a fantasy junkie..all the vitamins you will ever need come from fresh uncooked or lightly cooked food. As wella s often upsetting the stomach you simply don't need the stuff...use fresh herbs for a purpose...avoid foods which are "rave review" and look to the sort of foods our usually agricultural ancestors ate...which was not typically milk and prcessed grain. They didn't kid themselves they needed "energy drinks" and "athletes suppliments".They are and exercised.

26) if your back is bad try to learn new sexual techniques or use older ones you know which don't drive it into days of thereafter pain. Apart from convenient oral sex 'her on top' can be better for both backs if she keeps her's straight.

27)learn to breathe deeply into your stomach ..it relaxes all those muscles

28) learn pressure points..you can do this by study or as I did by closing my eyes and sensing the paths of the pain source...an incorrect point say on the hand can make back pain feel worse whereas one finger over can alleviate it. You might be amazed how competent you can become finding pressure points on hands feet arms and chest.Some pressure...eg at temples for head/neck pain should be almost imperceptible.

29)avoid osteopaths, gentle pressure treatment by a phsio is better and longer lasting...I know for a fact after numerous sessions at Osteos and Chiropracters. Chiropracters are without a doubt the lowest grade of treatment...no long massage even have the gall to take or diagnose from X rays, often exacerbating conditions while kidding themselves they are special. A good Osteo will masasage you for an hour or more. Avoid physios who use machiery..the precision and psychology of hands touching the body cannot be set aside.The Chiropracter is the worst because the body respasms soon after. What these people studiously ignore is that a whole range of factors including injury, posture, diet and mental state are what is affecting your body. Gentle vertebrae pressure is much more longlasting than spine cracking...and one really needs to ask about the long term efffcts of chiropractic...from a surgeon.

30)try to have feet up and the correct prescription glasses for a comfotable reading distance when reading.When fatigued or sore in the neck and shoulders, ..put it down and close your eyes and deep breathe. You will feel a sudden change in neck tension which will increase blood flow to your brin and enliven you. Bad body geometry is like having a car fixed with fencing wire and duct tape, it's creating new problems at the same time as holding other ones together without fixing anything.

31)avoid spirit drinks too they don't assist anything except maybe enjoying the taste

31 Don't forget your whole environment...dirty chemically polluted air, dust, exhaust fumes, construction and farmland dust, noise from those appallingly unecessary motor operated gardening tools...instead of using a broom for example... chainsaws, car horns, building noise, screeching tyres,spruikers, and so on ..all contrubute to your body response...blood flow, tension so use awareness of tension as a signal to reax, to breathe deeply into the stomach, to mentally allow aggravation to pass in and out, don't hold it in.In the beginning be aware of tension buiding up and use the night to dissipate what remains through unwinding mentally. Keep at this routine and one day it will no longer be conscious...your body will be protecting itself automatically

There are more matters for discussion but that's a start.It all seems daunting but in reality all of it can be readily accommodated in everyday life...but self discipline is hard and the body is addicted to the life it has adopted...like elastic it pulls you into mental and physical shapes and contortions...it takes practice to change it...but practice with the small things..denying yourself a cigarette, saying "I can do without it" rather than buying beer and wine which will only exacerbate your problems.....forget about those silly uniforms people wear to become part of the "jogging army" or the arobic dancers...just wear cool comfortable clothes which are your personality.Pay attention to foot massaging and only buy comfortbale shoes which are orthopaedicall correct...and yes that may mean finding and asking an expert.

We put ourselves into this back wrecked situation...over time or through misfortune...but look at it as a call to find a new life..

Cheers tony


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:32 PM

If my 17-year-old golden retriever could talk, she would tell you that glucosamine relieved her arthritis and that she's pain-free, but you don't need to know they give this stuff to dogs and horses. Besides you just got a whole course in holistic medicine, so I'll go take her for a walk now .......

CC


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:55 PM

I've guzzled 2g of glucosamine every day for about seven months. For all the good it's done I may as well have flushed it down the pan and cut out the middle man.   Sorry.


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Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:45 AM

There can be side effects from Glucosamine.

I tried it a couple of times, Within a few days of starting use I was freezing cold and almost suicidally depressed. Stopped the GS - symptoms went away. Tried again about a year later, same symptoms.

Same thing happened with herbal remedies such as Devils Claw, I think it was caused.

This doesn't seem to be a common thing but, if you do find your mood changes when you're taking it, stop using it.


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Mudcat time: 15 April 10:16 AM EDT

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