BS: How do you tell them?

Subject: How do you tell them?
From: Jack The Lad
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:11 PM

I get lots of CDs from both amateur and professional musicians wishing to appear at our local festival. My problem is I find many of them just totally unsuitable . Lots of them( mainly the singer/songwriters ) are dull dreary, depressing and boring. How do you tell them " Sorry we don't want you on our stage" without appearing to be rude? Do you think I have to go into specifics? Is there a unhurtful formula? I'd appreciate your help. Jack The Lad

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: jeffp
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:13 PM

"I'm sorry, but we won't be able to use you this year."

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:14 PM

Editors use the formula "doesn't seem to quite suit our needs". HR departments say something like that,also. You can provide helpful suggestions. But you have to curtail the impulse to get a long argument back, especially from those with a lot of emoitonal freight riding on acceptance.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:14 PM

Give the pile to someone who can reply helpfully and definitively, encouraging whatever is good (even if slight) and making hints where they need to improve. And holding the door open for another review of their accomplishments in.... what, maybe 3 years?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:15 PM

In your application process you can put that you will only contact those you are intereseted in - then you wouldn't have to say anything to the ones you don't want.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:16 PM

Don't go into specifics - the above suggestion is a good one. If they press you, just say that their act doesn't fit in with what you are looking for. It's a fact that if you're in the music business you have to deal with rejection and we've all experienced it - they'll have to experience it too! They'll find other venues, such as coffeehouses, that are more suitable to their type of music.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Jack The Lad
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:28 PM

Gosh, you lot are quick on the draw with your responses- thanks for the helpful suggestions. Jack The Lad

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:45 PM

These are a lot nicer than some we've experienced, from both sides. When an arts center closed down where I worked, I was allowed to go through a box of demo tapes, LPs, etc. It was there I got turned on to the wonderful tape "Fair Stood the Wind" from Mystic Seaport and a bunch of other's of excellent music. No one had ever responded to those musicians, one way or another; most hadn't even been listened to!

On the other side of the coin, I've been told by some managers that they just throw the demos away unless there is a SASE.

So, long way round to telling you, goodonya, for caring enough to be courteous!:-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: IvanB
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 05:13 PM

I've never been in the position of hiring music acts, but I have been involved in the hiring of numbers of persons. In every hiring situation in which I was involved, every candidate received a letter telling them of the results of the hiring, whether they were successful or not.

Many of them contacted us later, telling us how much they appreciated being informed. And several even contacted me asking what they could do to improve their chances of being hired, whether it was job skills they needed to obtain or merely better interview skills. And some even interviewed successfully for subsequent jobs and became valued employees.

I guess all this is a long way of saying that, although it's more work, letting every candidate know your decision and being willing to discuss their shortcomings with them will gain your festival a lot more good will than no answers at all. And, as I think was stated above, you may even find that some of the acts rejected this year will exactly fit the bill a few years down the road.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 05:22 PM

As I am fond of saying, "Some folks have tact; the others tell the truth."

Art

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 05:40 PM

I might suggest a time-saving maneuver that will de-stress you a good deal. (I don't *hire* anyone here at this house museum, as such, but I get dozens of applications to be the volunteer Museum Assistant for each year.)

Each year I devise a generic letter to send them in return, changing each name as needed and adding just one or two lines referring to their application, i.e. their interests and background. Just this morning, for instance, I replied to 9 applicants; took about 20 minutes. I keep the tone friendly and informal and invite them to write again if they have any questions or comments. Works.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 07:20 PM

Sorry, we're already over budget for this year. Well, that's what they usually say to me.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 06:42 PM

Be polite about it anyway. Even apart from being kinder, you might regret it if you are too scornful, and it turns out you've not just missed some future phenomenon, you've made an enemy of them.

Think of the companies that turned down the Beatles, and the publishers who rejected Harry Potter. I've got a book somewhere made up of quotes from the people who said that Mozart was rubbish and so forth...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 06:44 PM

As a performer, if I asked a venue/festival that hadn't hired us why, I was usually told that we didn't fit in to their thematic vision for the year. There are several festivals that did hire us other years, when we did fit what they were trying to do. When I was on a concert committee, we had to go through a lot of submissions from performers that hadn't bothered to find out what kind of venue or booking policy we had. For some of those performers, we told them what they did wasn't what we booked. I also had to tell some of my best friends that their demo tapes were voted down by the rest of the committee and that we couldn't hire them. I've always appreciated, as a performer, knowing one way or the other. No, is not the worst answer to get.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:03 PM

PFO's are hard to write, no matter what the venue, so it's best to be completely honest. I know this sounds harsh, but be as accurate and as detailed as possible in your writing. If you don't think it will "appeal" to the audience, tell them, even if it means telling them that this or that is lacking in chops, whatever instrument or voice. Better they hear it up front, so they can progress. The only way they/WE can progress is through CONSTRUCTIVE critique. Some bullshit about some bullshit doesn't help anyone... been there, done that, had it done to me. It's better to be honest than to try to avoid hurting feelings because it only delays the inevitable.... screw the Beetles and Harry Potter... honesty and clarity are the best policies.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:32 PM

Why not just let them know BEFORE they apply that if they haven't heard anything by such-and-such a date, then they will not be booked...

easy sneezey no?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:34 PM

Jack...Lots of good suggestions but it seems to me how you respond (and I, too, think you should respond, one way or the other) depends on how many submissions you get. Giving honest criticism that isn't destroyingly hurtful, can take a lot of time to devise (and may not be appreciated by everyone!). Worth the altruistic effort, maybe, if you've got the time; otherwise, generic letter w/personal line or 2 seems more reasonable.

As a professional studio potter, most of the art shows I did were juried, and required slides. Rejection letters were all over the place, from a simple no thank you, to a few unsophisticated, and very condescending "criticisms." All were taken in stride...all part of the game...and sometimes it IS a game.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:46 PM

Whatever you do, don't lie. That only leads to bad feelings or worse.

I do not book for the celtic festival with which I am involved, my work is in another area, but I do get many requests each year to use my influence to get an act booked. Just because I am close to the festival machinery doesn't mean I want to put my hand in the gears. Almost universally, the requests come from groups wholely inappropriate to the festival, by style, music, ability, or some other factor.

What gets me is some local groups feel they deserve a stage spot just because they are local. I once responded to a persistant request that we weren't a variety show, but that only made it worse, as if we should BE a variety show.

"Your application will be held on file for one year, reapply thereafter if your presentation has changed." ?

"We have a limited number of available positions and an unlimited number of applicants. We are unable to present your act this season." ?

But don't lie...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:47 PM

Deflect your own misgivings by blaming it on the committee decision / programme themes - assuming there is one of each and the artistes don't know them all.
I don't think you can tell them about their artistry without causing a dent in their confidence. Is it your job to? You may have need of them if they are reborn as a group and you like the re-incarnation.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:08 PM

Don't lie. But remember you may be wrong. And never sneer.

People remember sneers. A digression: I was once in the audience at a concert in a small venue. The main attraction was a very well regarded group who were on the up, and a support group who were ok, but not going to make it. I can remember the way the successful group had this scornful sneering attitude towards the others, and genuinely upset them.

Years later, if I was ever involved in booking I'd be against booking those guys. Musically they were and are pretty good. But sod them. (And I won't name them because maybe it was an off day and they were tired or whatever. And maybe they've got a libel lawyer anyway.)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:31 PM

Jack, you said "Lots of them( mainly the singer/songwriters ) are dull dreary, depressing and boring."

By God, sounds a lot like most of my early stuff! :-) Inexperienced singer-songwriters tend to write material like that...it seems so meaningful at the time, but it's downright embarrassing some years later.

You've already had plenty of good suggestions on how to respond, so I won't add any more.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 03:47 AM

Again thanks for all your suggetions.Mooh, you have hit the nail on the head- it is the local people whom it is difficult to refuse- Most of our festival is made up of local people- and the country is so small that you meet them at every folk club or venue. I try to diversify- and not to let everybody play every time- because that gets boring for the audience. I have a conception of what I want the festival to be, and seeing that I do most of the work,feel that I have a right( within reason) to decide what genres will be presented at the festival. I do try to refuse politely, and I feel that it is important to explain exactly why they may not perform . Sometimes people do improve and get to play a couple of years later. Jack The Lad (at work)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you tell them?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 06:21 AM

Jack - my reading of this is that they have sent you a CD for the purposes of applying for the specific opportunity, not for the purposes of recieving a general critique of their work. A polite and personal reply would be nice, thanking them for the CD (and maybe a nice word or two about it if merited), but explaining that they have not been selected for this year.
You shouldn't have to justify your decision. I don't think you are obliged to go into specifics - and a nicey-nicey formula sounds a bit patronising/impersonal.
Simplicity is usually best.

Kris