Help: Gut Strings for Violins

Subject: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:55 AM

I am wanting to experiment with gut or gut-core strings to improve my historical music perfomances. I've been all over the Net and looked at a lot of things and frankly, my brain is full.

Now, I know there are probably some of you who will want to say "don't bother." I already have people arguing with me on this. But I want to try it, and I want to make the best decision possible before I go and spend a bunch of money on strings. So please just humor me here.

Have any of you played on gut or gut-core strings? What did you think? Do you recommend all gut, or gut-core, with a steel E? The thing is, I don't know when the steel E started appearing on the violin, and so far I haven't been able to find out.

All gut strings are not easy to come by, nor are they cheap. Plus there is the matter of gauge - I have no earthly idea how to decide what sort of gauge I need.

Also I have noticed that some gut violin strings come in double lengths. Why is that?

I have also been told that in the past, stringed instruments were tuned to a lower pitch than we tune today, because the gut strings couldn't stand the tension.

Any and all suggestions made in good faith are welcome and appreciated.

Many thanks----

Kim

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Jim Krause
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:20 PM

Kim, I have played on gut strings on my fiddle. I like them. However, they do tend to detune themselves at the slightest provocation, you must realize. But for sound, they're great. I purchase mine from The Boulder Early Music Shop The gut strings they sell are by Kurschner. I use the medium guage strings which sell for $28.45 for a complete set. This is about the same price I give for my favorite set of steel strings. The set are all gut, except the low G string which is silver wire wrapped gut.

When the steel E string came about, I don't know. I do know that there were steel strung instruments very early on, perhaps before the sixteenth century. Various instruments of the cittern and mandore family were steel strung. And I think that the wiola da gamba which was like a fretted cello was steel strung. Lutes, early guitars, and violins were gut strung.

They come in double lengths because they will wear out and break faster than steel strings. When that happens, just take a fingernail clippers out, snip off the frayed part, tie a knot in the free end, and run it through the violin's tail piece, tune the string back up, and your ready to start playing again. If that isn't factual, at least it is practical.

The folk tale that says that gut strings can't take the tension of modern A440 tuning is patently bogus. I have tuned my gut strung fiddle up to A440, or even A442 and never had any problem with them breaking under the tension. When my strings finally gave way, they were literally sawn through by the action of the bow accross them.

All the best.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:47 PM

I have had very good luck with "Aquila Strings" on my ukulele and plan to put some on my classical guitar. The fellow that sells them in this country is very a wonderful person to deal with. All the strings come in 120 cm length so it may be possible to get two sets out of one order. They also sell "Nylgut" which have a sound close to gut (less expensive than gut). The quality is excellent and I would highly recommend these strings. I have had no problem keeping them in tune once they stretch a bit. When I placed my order he had them shipped before I got the check in the mail.

Their website is: http://www.aquilausa.com/Default.html

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Benjamin
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM

I've never tried gut strings as a classical guitarist before (and didn't think they were still being made). But from what I've read, they went out of tune quite frequently.

As for the tuning, Many scholars believe that the lute and the vihuela that they were tuned up to about G (a minor 3rd from the standard guitar tuning). As a result, it's common that when playing lute music or vihuela music that you tune the G string to F# (to match the the tuning of those insturments) and capo the thrid fret to match the tone (Although there are exceptions to both). In tuning the vihuela, Luis Milan suggested in his book El Maestro to tune first string as high as possible, then tune the other 5 to that.

On the steel string note, I'm not sure how long they were around either. But I'm pretty sure that the mandolin was always a steel stringed insturment. Could somebody correct me if I'm wrong!

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:33 PM

You are correct Benjamin about gut guitar strings not being available anymore. The strings I plan to put on the guitar are the nylgut which are also produced by Aquila. I bought bought both gut and nylgut for the ukulele. I haven't gone through the gut strings on my uke yet but I did put the nylgut on my grandsons uke and they sound a whole lot better than the normal nylon strings. The nylgut is most likely a nylon string that has had something added to give it the looks, feel, and sound close to that of the gut string.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 05:04 PM

Gut guitar strings are available from George Wunderlich at Wunder Banjo.

Jim, thanks for the link - I will check that out. Apparently it is true that instruments were tuned to a lower pitch, but maybe for a different reason than the strings not being able to support it.

Many thanks, y'all. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 05:41 PM

Tried them. Hate them. Won't ever do it again. You can start perfectly in tune (after the 2-3 weeks it takes them to stabalize) and within a minute or so, the warmth of your fingers will make them go out of tune. After about 10 minutes of playing, you can retune, and they will be more or less stable until you stop playing. When they cool off, they will go out of tune again. If you like playing in tune, forget gut. Al

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 06:20 PM

Kim C ~ the website you listed above for "Wunder Banjo" has moved to:

http://www.wunderbanjo.com/wunlist.htm

Thanks for the tip I think I'll give them a try. My fingers don't sweat all that much so maybe I'll stay in tune.

I did use gut strings on my first fiddle (way back in the 40's) about the time nylon was coming out for the ukulele. It seemed that around that same time fiddle strings switched over almost entirely to metal. I haven't used gut strings on the fiddle for around 50 years now but if I remember correctly I liked the sound of the gut better as it was more mellow.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:30 AM

Thanks Cap't. :-)

Mister was musing last evening that perhaps it was the way the early instruments were built, and not necessarily the strings, that dictated how high they could be tuned.

Al, thanks for the tip. I know gut is notorious for not staying in tune. But I want to try it so I can say I've had the experience. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: Gut Strings for Violins
From: Kim C
Date: 24 May 02 - 12:13 PM

Okay, y'all, I have just got my set of gut strings from the Boulder Early Music Shop. Just ordered 'em on Monday!

Now. The G-string has a loop end, and I'm pretty sure what to do with that. The others have no ends. Jim mentioned to just tie a not in the end - does that work pretty well, or do I need to wrap them like classical guitar strings? And will there be a lot of excess string wrapped around the peg?