 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Irish food question ?
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Marc Date: 26 Apr 02 - 10:11 AM Fish= famine food? I thought I was taught that Ireland is a country of Catholics. (Excepting those who are not, which is another issue.) How can fish not be a major part of the diet? Didn't we eat fish every Fri. untill recently? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:17 PM Cockles and mussles qualify as fish/seafood don't they? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,kevinhowcroft@hotmail.com Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:48 AM surely the best known irish dish is cockles and mussels alive alive o |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: brioc Date: 25 Apr 02 - 09:10 AM am a bit overdue with my bit on this topic, and didn't read all 130 entries. However, coming from the island of poets and scholars myself I reckon I can add my piece! Fish in the old days......pre-famine----- was not really a known commodity. It is very hard to imagine ,but during the famine the majority of the people who died or who had to emigrate were from the westcoast. Their potato crops failed and so did they. They didnt know that the sea was full of nourishment, even though they used to build their gardens ( potatoplots ) with the help of seaweed. Black pudding is not for me. Though we got it every saturday for dinner. The blood sausage, if acquired at its first source has to be boiled first, then let go cold then sliced and fried. Mind you ,not really boiled, just let to cook in hot water........... corned beef is to Ireland what dried meat is to Switzerland. A perfect way of preserving meat so that it lasts longer. corned is salted and sometimes smoked too. If you are in Dublin, and don't know where to go.......try the Ould Dubliner pub on Fleet St., they do the best Coddle in years.Now that is a real old Dublin dinner! Brigid |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Ballyholme Date: 25 Apr 02 - 08:47 AM I think the person who made the point about recipes in Ireland being more "regional" than "national" is right. I come from the North of Ireland and I can't ever remember my mother serving us corned beef and cabbage. I do, however, recall frequent Ulster fries - potato bread, soda bread, eggs and bacon. Even Irish stew has regional variations. I now live in the States but when I return home for visits my first port of call is the Kitchen Bar in Belfast. They serve the best in local cuisine and their Ulster fry is probably the best you're gonna taste anywhere! Incidentally, the Kitchen is also a fine venue for traditional music. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 25 Apr 02 - 06:49 AM Funny to see this thread drifting back onto topic again after all the rants and venom. The Irish apparent historic aversion to fish is hard to explain. It does seem to be accepted that some regions close to the sea survived the famine better than inland regions partly because people resorted to fishing, yet the Skibbereen area and Co. Mayo are often cited as particularly hard-hit by the famine. And as has been observed, there are fish in lakes and rivers too. I think the overfishing argument is an anachronism. I would have thought that the appropriation of fishing rights by landlords would have been enough to turn poaching into the major national sport, but that doesn't seem to have happened. So were inland fishing rights other than for salmon ever enforced? Another issue which I'm surprised not to have seen so far on this thread, and maybe it's a sign of the times, is the practice of Friday abstinence. When I was a lad, Catholics were obliged to abstain from eating meat on Fridays, and fish was the alternative. This gave fish a bit of an image problem, and the compulsion associated with it was generally cited as explaining the Irish lack of enthusiasm for fish and seafood generally. In more recent times (say the last twenty years), it has been the tourists who have led the way in raising the status of seafood in Ireland, and seafood restaurants are now among the most prestigious, but seafood just doesn't feature in what might be called "vernacular" or "traditional" cooking. It was largely due to French interest that smoked salmon has progressed from being a virtually unknown dish in Ireland to a perceived national specialty. *ROT (really on topic) A bit like the folk music, actually: if it hadn't been for Americans liking the Clancy brothers and Germans liking the Fureys and the Dubliners, we might never have had a folk revival in Ireland at all. Incidentally, when I was a child in Dublin in the 1950s, crab, prawns and even lobster (which could not be exported for technical and economic reasons) were quite cheap and we would often have them as a late-night snack, but my mother would never have thought of serving them as a main meal. And on the corned beef thing, it was undoubtedly a popular traditional dish, but not particularly associated with St Patrick's Day. A possible Irish specificity is that, when made from silverside it is a good-quality meat and doesn't have any poverty or spam associations. In rural Ireland, roast spiced beef was traditionally a Christmas specialty. And finally, on the subject of Irish stew, which has also remained mysteriously absent from this thread, Irish stew is made from mutton, not lamb, which has an entirely different taste. But as Irish farmers are now producing lamb for the French market and as Irish people have acquired a taste for it, mutton seems to be completely unobtainable in Ireland. I've eaten what purported to be Irish stew during an Irish week here in Brussels, but because it was made with lamb it was neither a good stew nor a tasty bit of lamb. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 25 Apr 02 - 06:21 AM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 24 Apr 02 - 11:54 PM soda bread and potatoe bread are good |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Airto Date: 08 Apr 02 - 08:29 AM I think it is fair to generalise, GUEST, and to say that compared to other coastal regions of Europe there is little emphasis placed on seafood in Ireland. Salmon, trout and lobster have always been highly rated, but not much else unless it's deep-fried in batter to disguise the taste. And inland anglers who catch pike and perch generally throw them back. In France they appear on gourmet menus. Try serving fish or shellfish to a party of Irish people and half of them won't touch it. In Belgium mussels are the national dish. Go to a local restaurant anywhere from Brittany to St Petersburg and seafood will be billed as the main attraction.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Airto Date: 08 Apr 02 - 08:28 AM I think it is fair to generalise, GUEST, and to say that compared to other coastal regions of Europe there is little emphasis placed on seafood in Ireland, even if it's a generalisation. Salmon, trout and lobster have always been highly rated, but not much else unless it's deep-fried in batter to disguise the taste. And inland anglers who catch pike and perch generally throw them back. In France they appear on gourmet menus. Try serving fish or shellfish to a party of Irish people and half of them won't touch it. In Belgium mussels are the national dish. Go to a local restaurant anywhere from Brittany to St Petersburg and seafood will be billed as the main attraction.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Apr 02 - 04:23 PM "stirabout" was what my father called the maize porridge he used to give to the dogs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: ciarili Date: 07 Apr 02 - 02:46 PM Surprised no one's mentioned coddle. Basically a beef stew, and from what I understand, good pub food. The Field here in San Diego serves great Boxty! In viewing this thread, I'm reminded of the song Faoitin, sung by a couple of different artists, though the most popular recording (and a great one, I might add) would undoubtedly be the one by Maighréad and Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill. It's praising the whiting as a good fish, even though salmon is considered the upper class fish and is sold to the Sasanach and only the poor eat whiting. Here are the lyrics, if anyone's interested:
Faoitín
Faoitín toor a ló agus faoitín toor a laddie ó
Nach mór i gceist an liathán ag iascairí na Gaillimhe
Tá iasc ag daoine móra á chur anonn go Sasana
Saillígí na haebha agus íocfaidh siad an salann díbh
Is dá bhfeicfeá Máire Mhór 'dhul suas sráid an mhargaidh
Grá mo chroí mo stóirín, is í nach ndéarfadh tada liom
'ró, óró a Mháire, a Mháire a stór an dtiocfá abhaile liom Btw, stirabout is a soup. Hey, Fiolar, you live 'round here?
ciarili |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 07 Apr 02 - 01:34 PM Is deacair amhrán a rádh gan gloine. (It's hard to sing with an empty glass)
All you might want http://dnausers.d-n-a.net/dnetoFZo/recipes/
Caro's Irish Food |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:55 AM Boil the Cabbage Down |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Les B Date: 22 Mar 02 - 12:54 PM Just as a matter of passing interest - re the corned beef & cabbage versus bacon & cabbage - there's a fiddle tune at the "Old 78's" web site that's titled "Bacon and Cabbage" it's hard to tell from listening to it, but it might have a slight Celtic tinge. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:28 PM All that shows, Fiolar, is that there are different ways of making it in different parts, and even in different families. It's always been white flour inn our family. Except when someone decided maybe to use brown flour for a change.
There's far less uniformity than people make out in such things - and there used to be less than there is now, before people began to turn to recipe books and take any notice of what some flash-in-the-pan cook on TV was telling them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:05 PM In answer to Guest, LesB--fish has been a staple of the Irish diets--in certain areas--for millenia. I also don't think much of the "famine food" theory for a reason why some Irish people don't eat fish. I think Irish people with an aversion to fish in the post-Famine era didn't eat fish for the same reasons many people all over the world choose not to eat/enjoy eating fish. There is also the problem of over-fishing, which I mentioned in an above post. Ireland being a small island, it has been seriously overfished in many areas, and stocks have been badly depleted. Salmon is but the most famous example. The same is true for some inland waterway fish species. The overfishing/limit on fishing aspect is as complex in Ireland as it is everywhere else. There is also as old a tradition of poaching fish and game in Ireland as there is everywhere else. So it is not a good idea to generalize about why some Irish people eat fish, and some don't. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Fiolar Date: 21 Mar 02 - 09:32 AM McGrath: Sorry to disagree with you regarding the "soda bread." White flour was hardly ever used where I came from. It was always brown flour known as "oneway" flour. It was mixed with sour milk and bread soda together with a little salt. Soda is alkaline and to get the rising effect had to be mixed with the acid of the sour milk. It was made into a dough and then baked in a bastable. White flour was more often than not used for sweet cakes such as currant or raisin or apple. The cake was ready when if you tapped the base, it gave off a hollow sound. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:12 AM There was the blight - since then we've never cooked right. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:47 PM Sounds like a Shepherds Pie or a Cottage Pie? Great food either way. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: DougR Date: 20 Mar 02 - 04:29 PM Now, now. Control yourself, LesB. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Les B. Date: 20 Mar 02 - 03:28 PM I've seen it mentioned twice in above posts that fish was a famine food. Would that mean it wasn't eaten much before the famine (and why not)? Or am I misinterpreting that idea ? JTT - your description of Fish Pie with potatoes has my mouth watering. One of the best meals I've had in recent years was some sort of mashed potato & meat dish in a pub in Kilarny - toasted golden on top - I'm practically orgasmic just thinking of it now !! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 03:26 PM That's what I was saying. A different food entirely - still Soda Bread though.
And both of them totally diffeent from the heavy brown lumps they stick on the shelves in English supermarkets and describe as Irish Soda Bread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,JTT Date: 20 Mar 02 - 03:06 PM Fish had a bit of a reputation as famine food, so it wasn't reckoned much. But salmon has always been eaten here, as is trout (often baked, stuffed with almonds - the salmon is usually steamed in a fish-kettle with a little white wine and some bay leaves and garlic). Oysters - the native, not the big Pacific oysters - are eaten with brown soda bread, wedges of lemon to squeeze the juice over the fresh, raw oyster, and a glass of Guinness. Kippers are a usual breakfast dish. Herrings are eaten ad lib in season, with the roe. Fish-and-chips was brought here, as to England, by the Italian immigrants of the early 20th century who also brought us ice cream; and fish-and-chips are still a standard Friday night treat. Fish pie - cooked with a creamy sauce over a mixture of sweet and smoked fish and shellfish, the whole topped with mashed potatoes and sometimes cheese on top of that - is a standard dish. Chowders are popular all along the west coast; in the east we're less fancy-dancy and just make fish soup out of fish pie leftovers. Lobsters, crawfish and prawns, oh, yes, and crabs and mussels, razorfish, winkles, clams and cockles, are all eaten with enthusiasm. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha Date: 20 Mar 02 - 01:36 PM McGrath they wouldn`t know what a Farl looked like in Tipp, that loaf is far removed in taste from a Soda Farl, get the tay-pot on. Ard Mhacha. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 01:29 PM I was thinking corn (or corned) beef, but it's true enough for American and Canadian. (Or Yankee for that matter - I know in the States it's got a special regional meaning, but in the rest of the world a Yankee and a Yank mean the same thing.)
I was also thinking about Muffins and Fags and so forth. We've had some interesting threads about this. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Les B. Date: 20 Mar 02 - 01:05 PM I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the great flurry of postings above, but my understanding of "corned" as used to describe brining, originally came from the idea that the salt was in lumps that looked like kernels of corn - similar to the way "gunpowder" tea is like old fashioned gunpowder. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Declan Date: 20 Mar 02 - 01:03 PM You've got it in one Doug. As well as the ususal rubbish tha's being pured into it from Dublin and other towns along the East Coast of Ireland and the West Coast of Britain, the main issue is the fact that the Sellafield (formerly Windscale) Nuclear reprocessing plant in Cumbria on the west coast of England is discharging various waste products into it. That's the potential subject for the other thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: DougR Date: 20 Mar 02 - 12:38 PM Interesting, Guest Declan. Are you reluctant to eat seafood from the Irish Sea because of pollution or something? DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 02 - 12:25 PM Well, we have stayed on topic with discussions of seafood and fish. A bit, anyway. A number of us has mentioned the fish and seafood common to the island. Commented on many Irish people's dislike for it. And have mentioned a dish or recipe here and there. I'd not do the Dublin Bay prawns these days either--likely for the same reasons you cite--the subject of the whole other thread. I'd add that the mercury levels in some inland waterways to that list as well. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Declan Date: 20 Mar 02 - 11:56 AM I'm getting confused here. Mc Grath when you said up above "I love this sort of situation where we use the same or similar word to describe something radically different. " were you talking about corn & Corned beef or US American's & Canadians - or both. And all this started because someone asked if we never ate fish over here ! There's great seafood to be had in most parts of Ireland especially the West Coast. Monk's Pub in Ballyvaughan in Co Clare is worth a visit for seafood if you're over in that direction. I'm a bit slow to eat seafood caught in the Irish Sea these days - but thats a subject for whole other thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 02 - 11:26 AM The great irony in the above of course, is that the first parade was likely populated almost exclusively by the Protestant Scots Irish militiamen, serving the British crown in the conquest of North America. You don't hear much about that fact anywhere nowadays. Too controversial, what with the war in the north still threatening to erupt each summer, and the militarist bent of many Irish Americans nowadays. 9/11 in NYC sadly brought that Irish American militarism to the forefront of the "New American Patriotism" movement. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 02 - 11:21 AM This history of the holiday in the United States from the U.S. History Channel's website, may help some people from both sides the pond, put this all in context: The First Parade St. Patrick's Day is celebrated on March 17, his religious feast day and the anniversary of his death in the fifth century. The Irish have observed this day as a religious holiday for thousands of years. On St. Patrick's Day, which falls during the Christian season of Lent, Irish families would traditionally attend church in the morning and celebrate in the afternoon. Lenten prohibitions against the consumption of meat were waived and people would dance, drink, and feast—on the traditional meal of Irish bacon and cabbage. The first St. Patrick's Day parade took place not in Ireland, but in the United States. Irish soldiers serving in the English military marched through New York City on March 17, 1762. Along with their music, the parade helped the soldiers to reconnect with their Irish roots, as well as fellow Irishmen serving in the English army. Over the next thirty-five years, Irish patriotism among American immigrants flourished, prompting the rise of so-called "Irish Aid" societies, like the Friendly Sons of Saint Patrick and the Hibernian Society. Each group would hold annual parades featuring bagpipes (which actually first became popular in the Scottish and British armies) and drums. No Irish Need Apply Up until the mid-nineteenth century, most Irish immigrants in America were members of the Protestant middle class. When the Great Potato Famine hit Ireland in 1845, close to a million poor, uneducated, Catholic Irish began to pour into America to escape starvation. Despised for their religious beliefs and funny accents by the American Protestant majority, the immigrants had trouble finding even menial jobs. When Irish Americans in the country 's cities took to the streets on St. Patrick's Day to celebrate their heritage, newspapers portrayed them in cartoons as drunk, violent monkeys. However, the Irish soon began to realize that their great numbers endowed them with a political power that had yet to be exploited. They started to organize, and their voting block, known as the "green machine," became an important swing vote for political hopefuls. Suddenly, annual St. Patrick's Day parades became a show of strength for Irish Americans, as well as a must-attend event for a slew of political candidates. In 1948, President Truman attended New York City 's St. Patrick's Day parade, a proud moment for the many Irish whose ancestors had to fight stereotypes and racial prejudice to find acceptance in America. Wearing of the Green Goes Global Today, St. Patrick's Day is celebrated by people of all backgrounds in the United States, Canada, and Australia. Although North America is home to the largest productions, St. Patrick's Day has been celebrated in other locations far from Ireland, including Japan, Singapore, and Russia. In modern-day Ireland, St. Patrick's Day has traditionally been a religious occasion. In fact, up until the 1970s, Irish laws mandated that pubs be closed on March 17. Beginning in 1995, however, the Irish government began a national campaign to use St. Patrick's Day as an opportunity to drive tourism and showcase Ireland to the rest of the world. Last year, close to one million people took part in Ireland 's St. Patrick's Festival in Dublin, a multi-day celebration featuring parades, concerts, outdoor theater productions, and fireworks shows.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 02 - 11:07 AM Jimmy, And I've just randomly pulled one of my Irish cookbooks off the shelf. Title is "Irish Traditional Food" by Theodora Fitzgibbon, copyright 1983, Gill and McMillan, Dublin. Her books are quite good regarding social history. This particular one states this in the acknowledgements: "I wish to thank particularly: Desmond, Knight of Glin, who lent me precious old books and papers from his collection; Mrs. Cathleen Healy for her most generous gift fo the handwritten recipe book of Selina Newcomen, dated 1717; Dr. A.T. Lucas for giving me access to his paper 'irish Food before the Potato'; Mrs. Alice Beary for the loan of eighteenth-century manuscripts; Miss Aileen Hamilton for the loan of many out-of-print books; to Ciaran MacMathuna for imparting some of his valuable knowledge; and to all the people who talked to me about their memories of food in the past; and last but by no means least Tarlach O'hUid who gave me a lot of his time and was responsible for the Irish translations.' Now then, as to what was traditional before the Norman conquest and what after regarding the consumption of beef in Ireland is certainly open to some debate. While pork may have been the preferred meat, it also might not have been preferred. Beef was less commonly consumed because, as another poster has pointed out, cattle were used for dairy production. However, unwanted bull calves, old cows past their milking days, and animals killed or maimed by accidents were eaten. After the 18th century, the introductin of the Big House economy changed the dietary patterns of many in Ireland. Beef was the preferred meat of the English gentry, while lamb, mutton and pork the preferred meat of the Irish gentry. It is the Big House diet which adapted the English preference for beef to the traditional Irish diet by adding it to their tables. There are approximately 10 pages of beef recipes included in this book, and 25 pages of fish and seafood recipes. I would suggest that neither reflects preferences in the contemporary Irish diet, but rather, reflects what the author was able to glean from cooks and chefs from whom she collected recipes for her book, as well as what she was able to cull from the manuscripts. The recipe for corned beef (and that is the name given it in the recipe book) is on page 101. Another interesting and easy read for those interested in the history of Irish food and diet is the book "Land of Milk and Honey: The Story of Traditional Irish Food & Drink" by Brid Mahon. It was readily available through Amazon.com last time I checked. Ms. Fitzgibbon's excellent book is, sadly, out-of-print. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 02 - 10:38 AM Big Mick, I've lived in the US for long enough to know that there is no other ethnic group held up to the amount of scorn and ridicule by their former countrymen than Irish Americans are by the Irish. I also consider it no coincidence that the only other nationality of people who engage as often (or more) in Irish American bashing than the Irish, are the British. And this, in British North America. What a surprise. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Jimmy C Date: 20 Mar 02 - 10:31 AM Corn Beef and Cabbage appears to be a hearty meal from many counties, it can be found in old recipes from England, America, Canada (especially the maritime provinces) and other parts of Europe. It is popular in Ireland but I don't beleive it originated there but if something is associated with Ireland and St. Patrick's Day for so long it will be considered to be a traditional Irish dinner after a while. I have before me a pretty old cook book containing 250 Irish recipes. The book was published by Mount Salus Press , Sanymount, Dublin and loks like it was published around 1940 - 1950. The opening paragraph of the introduction is as follows. < Ireland comes as something of a surprise to those interested in food. Until reecent years we would hardly have aspired to a reputation for cuisine; even today the emphasis is only gradually moving from quantity to quality. To a great extent the credit for a re-appreciation of Irish food and Irish recipes is due to our visitors. Their pleasure in such simple and essentially Irish specialities as wholemeal bread, bacon and cabbage, Irish butter, Irish honey and a whole range of Irish sea foods seems to have re-awakened our own interest in the subject. This has given a new pride and a new confidence to Irish Chefs and cooks, with the happy result that old recipes have ben revived and many exciting new dishes created.
The little book is a collection of both traditional and modern recipes.Here is a small list of the headings of some of them. Jimmy |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 10:01 AM (I'm having to send this post in installments because it won't load otherwisiie - in case anyone's wondering.
Irish people everywhere are pleased that there are Irish Americans and Australian Americans and Argentine Americans and Irish over in England and all, as well as Irish still back in Ireland. But I think most are us are just as pleased and entertained at the fact that all these communities have developed their own little differences as well as retaining some important similarities. And I think "corned beef" (American sense) with the cabbage instead of boiled bacon is thought of as being one of those differences. And very tasty indeed, I'd imagine.
Very likely they took the idea across with them, and held on to it, the way people often do with things that die out back home, like Cecil Sharpe collecting songs in the Appalachians, and they are more "traditional" than the [people back in Ireland.P> No call for animosity about it. And if it turns out the Irish in Australia like kangaroo with the green stuff, and maybe ostrich or wildebeest in South Africa, that'd be interesting to, and no animosity involved at all there either. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:59 AM Noone's saying they don't eat beef in Ireland, and always have, though in the past anyway poor people would be more likely to have bacon; and noone is saying there's something degenerate about eating your cabbage with what in America is called corned beef, though it isn't called that in Ireland.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:58 AM No Soda bread in the South? Try saying that in Tipperary. Mind, it's a different variety from the way you have it up North, maybe that's what he was writing about, not the farls, just the flat round loaf, and it's more likely sliced and buttered than fried. But Soda Bread all right. And always white flour.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Big Mick Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:45 AM Fair enough, Ard Mhacha. But it is accurate to say that Corned Beef is indeed a dish that was eaten in Ireland, and yes, it was primarily a southern dish. I understand the distinction between regional foods. A lot of this discussion has to do with speaking in broad generalized terms. Very similar discussion going on about champ in another thread. OK, GUEST, I will agree on the issue of the "superiority" thing. But I don't see that as a general thing, just happens among certain folks. Never did understand it. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha. Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:32 AM Guest me boy, What the hell has that got to do with bloody Corn Beef and Cabbage. I love USIANS and espically them big blondes, so there. Ard Mhacha |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:23 AM I apologize to no one for my reactions to the anti-Irish American tone of this thread. Even by my fellow Irish citizens (both current and former) who's smug sense of superiority towards Irish Americans is about as off-putting as you can get. You rarely see the reverse attitudes towards the Irish by Irish Americans though, do you? I have always been astounded by the grace, the warmth, and the generosity Irish Americans have shown me and my fellow citizens. And I've seen how hurt they are by the viciousness of anti-Irish American bigotry both in Ireland and amongst the new wave of Irish immigrants in North America. It makes me ashamed to be Irish.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha. Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:17 AM Mick, When did you ever see Soda,Wheaten or Potato Farls south of Dundalk, likewise Grits and some other southern US food was alien to the northern US States. So once again when referring to Corn Beef and Cabbage keep it south of a line from Dundalk to Sligo. I remember reading the great newspaper man Con Houlihan berating people from the US for referring to the "lovely Soda Bread they had in Ireland", the bould Con in his ignorance excluded the North were Soda bread is consumed every day. Are you reading me Guest. Ard Mhacha. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Big Mick Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:03 AM Two observations. GUEST, you are very bright............and an asshole. Spoiling for a fight, so you can show how smart you are. Second observation. GUEST is correct that corned beef has a very long history in Ireland. Check out the eleventh century tome "Aislinge Meic Con Glinne". You willfind it mentioned there as "corned beef". The whole process of "corning" beef" had to do with preservation in a time when there were no refrigerators. In essence they "pickled" the beef. Cork City was known for the process and from 1680 to around 1825, the process of "corning beef" was the City's most important industry. Most of the beef was exported then to England, other countries in Europe, the West Indies, and Newfoundland. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Fiolar Date: 20 Mar 02 - 08:29 AM Geordie: Apparently the Boxty Band are alive and well and have regular sessions in the Field pub and restaurant in San Diego every Sunday. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: PeteBoom Date: 20 Mar 02 - 08:08 AM DING DING DING!!! We have it! Noreen's description fits pretty well. What I find funny is the number of people talking about stuff served up in "Irish" pubs/bars in the States - that have never seen it. It resembles nothing I ever ate in Galway (or visiting relations in Dublin) - except for when it was being served up for American tourists! Beef brisket boiled FOREVER with over-cooked cabbage - normally served up for outrageous prices one weekend a year! Regards - Pete |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:45 AM I love this sort of situation where we use the same or similar word to describe something radically different. Minced meat (real meat)and mincemeat (fruit and stuff) is a similar one.
We had a story on the Cat a litle way back about a foreign visitor who'd been told to be sure to ask for mince pie with custard. The waiter thinks he's crazy, but he inbsists. Then when he gets served, after having to insist that this is what he wants, and it's the sort wity real meat, he feels he has to eat it up, as the only way to avoid humiliation, while the incredulous waiter looks on, highly impressed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: Sorcha Date: 20 Mar 02 - 01:17 AM Guest, you are an idiot. Just my opinion, of course. Let's talk about Irish food instead of ridculous labels.......eh? Qual es? Y, qual es su nombre? Diga me!
Parlez vous le Francais? Non? And Aine can talk to you in Irish Gaelic----so? Your point is??????? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: DougR Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:49 PM Er, ah ...I thought this thread was about Irish food. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Irish food question ? From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:39 PM I've found that referring to myself and my fellow citizens simply as U.S. citizens, rather than Americans, avoids your controversy altogther, MMario. It shouldn't prove too difficult for you to pronounce, I would hope. I see U.S. citizens insisting on the use of "American" to describe anyone's nationality--mine, Mexico or Nicaragua, Peru or Canada--as pure arrogance. The same way I view British people referring to the island of Ireland as the British Isles. Pure arrogance. No need to continue offending others, once it has been pointed out that you are doing it. It is no more difficult to say "U.S. citizen" than it is "the islands of Britain and Ireland" now is it?
|