Do you trust music store staff?

Subject: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Marion
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:20 PM

Hello all. I'm shopping for a cello. In one store I was at, I noticed that the cellos I was looking at (in the $1500 ballpark) had painted lines instead of real purfling.

I asked the clerk about this, and he said that purfling is strictly decorative. He also said that if I were to be concerned about things like that, then I would be looking at the $5000 price range.

Well, I consulted a few books and asked on Mudcat and learned that purfling has a structural purpose, in preventing cracks. And I went to another store and found that their lower-end cellos (less than 2000) had real purfling.

I should add that this wasn't a general music store where the staff are mostly into electric guitars; it's a store that sells only violin family instruments, and the guy I talked to was himself a cellist.

I don't want to believe that he was telling me outright lies to make a sale, but it's a theory that the facts suggest.

Marion

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:25 PM

well...i would say that buying an intrument is like buying a car or a computer...you go and shop around for a decent priced one that you want....and compare notes....

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:28 PM

I've found a few places that I trust and I stick with them. All have been recommended to me by people who know much more about instruments than I do.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:33 PM

Are you saying that no music store staff can be trusted because you encountered one who couldn't? Some mudcatters are music store staff.

It's refreshing to see that kind of unjustified generalization made about someone other than lawyers for a change, though.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Marion
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:38 PM

No, Midchuck, I didn't mean to imply that. I meant that my own instinct to trust music store staff - also an unjustified generalization, I suppose - had been challenged.

Marion

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Marion
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:43 PM

PS to Midchuck - and now I wish I had chosen a different thread title, because I can see why you interpreted it so. Oh well. Marion

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:56 PM

Marion, I had no problem understanding what you said. Who knows - maybe the guy just didn't know. After all, he sells them, doesn't make them. (At least I hope not.)

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: GUEST,khandu
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 11:06 PM

Remember, their job is to sell! However, wise salesmen know that integrity and product knowledge often produce return customers.

Generally, I talk with the salesman casually about his musical endeavors. After a few minutes, I developed a feeling of trust or one of distrust. I usually trust my feelings and have found them to be rather accurate.

Fortunately, I have a good music store with a staff that I trust quite well.

khandu

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 11:09 PM

I trust Bernie Lehmann in Rochester. I trust Harry Eibert, Tom Hosmer, Tim Hodgson and Charlie Cavalaro in Syracuse. Do I expect them to know the answer to my every question? No, but I trust them to be impeccably honest and refere me elsewhere when they don't know.

Don

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 11:26 PM

As to the question in the thread title, I suppose you have to get a feel for the situation, as khandu said. Some of them may not actually know much, some may assume YOU are clueless. This may not be such a bad thing, as you get to see how much BS they'll give you. Even the best music store sales people won't volunteer information if it may work against the sale, but they won't lie.

Most music store employees I've encountered have been honest ones. Most places I'm familiar with don't advertise much, so their customers hear about them from other satisfied customers. If their reptutation goes down the dumper in the local music community, they could be in serious trouble.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:24 AM

Depends (as Bob Dole said when somebody asked him if he wore boxers or briefs).

There are two factors:-- First, does this guy/gal really know the answer to my question? If you aren't familiar with the store and it's personnel, you might be talking to someone who was selling computers last month and real estate a month before that. And second, can I trust him/her? Are they really trying to help me find what I need, or are they just trying to sell me something?

Most music store personnel are honest and try to be helpful, but more than once I've had someone try to talk me into the guitar equivalent of a piece of swampland. A good hedge is to do a lot of research ahead of time and try to know what you want before you go into the store. And once you find a good store, keep patronizing it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: John P
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 10:33 AM

I know a lot of honest and ethical music store staff people (I work in a music store, sort of). And I know a few who will lie to customers in order to sell something. In general, the attitude is set by the owners/managers of the store, so if you find a good store, chances are the entire staff will be good. Most of the time, the rock and roll stores are where you find the jerks, but I also know one dishonest violin store owner and one folk music store owner who is always more interested in profit than in customer service.

Yes, do some research before you go in, but remember that part of the job of the sales person is to educate you as well. Is the sales person willing to sit with you for an hour, finding out what you are looking for and telling you the pros and cons of the various choices? Do they say anything that doesn't agree with the research you've already done? (Remember that a lot of that kind of stuff is opinion and there is no one right answer). You can get a feel fairly quickly on whether or not the store you are in is focused on serving your needs. If you buy an instrument from them, you should be establishing a long-term relationship with them. Think about how that would feel. Do they give you any indication that they ever want to see you again if you have probelms with the instrument? There was a store here in town that sold Taylor guitars at very low prices and told the customers that we were the warranty center for Taylors and would do a free custom set-up for new Taylor owners. We do free custom set-ups, but only for people that buy guitars from us. Does the music store you are shopping at have a reputation for square dealing in your local music community? If you don't know, start asking other musicians. Some always shop for the lowest price, but many are aware of the need to pay a little more to get a lot more service.

One of the telling points, if you can find out, is whether or not the sales person is working on commission. If so, there is a good chance that their dinner tonight depends on them making a sale. They probably don't have your best interests at heart.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: 53
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 10:37 AM

It depends on what you are buying. Some of them are working on commision and they'll tell you anything to make a sale. I've been rooked one time to many.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: C-flat
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 10:58 AM

A music store can only be as good as it's worst member of staff! Always do your research and where possible take a friend who "knows".

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 11:11 AM

NO....in a nutshell. Over the years they've gotta earn that trust.

Talk to the people who spend a lot of time in music stores and you'll get the straight poop. There are two stores in Toronto that I stay away from simply because of 'attitude'. One is Remenyi and the other is Tundra. If store employees are not willing to do some 'splainin', take your questions and your bucks elsewhere. I once took a 300 dollar fiddle to Heinl music with a couple of questions, and was surprised at their total lack of interest......perhaps they'd forgotten the many purchases I'd made previously in their store.

Among Toronto's many music stores, the 12th Fret seems to have earned a fair amount of loyalty. Most musicians speak highly of the staff (I certainly do)

Rick

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 11:22 AM

I've been to a few music stores with thoroughly untrustworthy staff...and I've been in some with excellent, knowledgable, honest staff. The 12th Fret in Toronto is as good as it gets. The Arts Music Store in Newmarket, Ontario is also a very reliable and helpful outfit. It doesn't take too long to find the good places and weed out the bad ones.

- LH

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 01:58 PM

The only places I ever buy from will be music stores specialising in folk instruments and such who have stalls at the folk festivals.

That way you see them selling directly opposite each other, and get a feel for which are the ones with people working for them who know their stuff - typically musicians doing this as a day job.

Here are three such, and from their websites you get a sense of them - Thrift Music; Hobgoblin Music; The Music Room.

(Of course when you are after a cello you are into a different set of music shops.)

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:28 PM

Here's a good test: If the music shop sells guitars, as the salesman how the $300 Fender Resonator guitars are. If he says, "Great", either find another salesperson or another store. Okay, lets say they don't sell guitars but have pianos. Ask him about digital pianos. If the salesperson says, "Lousy", find another salesperson or store. Half funnin' here, but cheapie Fender resos are junk and digital pianos these days are pretty darned good.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 03:13 PM

Thanks for your thoughts, all.

If anyone wants to know, it was at the Sound Post (Toronto) where I met the salesman described in the first post, and at Remenyi that I found a better cello (I think) and a salesman I liked more. I haven't been to Heinl yet. Too bad Twelfth Fret doesn't sell string instruments - they could just change their name to Half of Scale Length.

Marion

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: khandu
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM

Magnolia Music in Jackson, MS has advertised in the local paper's classified section under "Musical Instruments" for years. Their ad reads "Going out for business sale!!"

It is amazing how many people (including myself)have misread this ad as "Going out of business sale!!"

After two trips to this store, I decided they should go out for someone else's business. The staff is much too "cool" for me. I refuse to buy there because of their attitude. Whether they are honest is irrelevant to me.

khandu

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Mooh
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 08:51 PM

I feel I got shafted by my local musical instrument dealer recently and when I gave them an opportunity to correct their mistake I'm sure I was lied to. They tried to blame a distributor and then the manufacturer for an incomplete product package, even after I checked with those parties. My feeling was that my purchase was split up so that they could sell the mandolin and case seperately, even though the builder ships and prices them together. I wanted the dealer to make right on the deal but they won't. I'm "voting with my feet" and taking my business elsewhere, at least until something changes in the way they do business.

I used to like the London (Ontario) Guitar Shop but haven't been there lately, the 12th Fret in Toronto is good (as others have said), and I like a new little shop in Owen Sound called Jensen Music.

Buyer beware. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: 53
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 08:55 PM

Mcfadyen Music in Myrtle Beach S.C. is where I shop and thru the years they have had their ups and downs, and I'm thankful that I've been able to deal with one store. I always check out the items that I need and before I buy make sure that it works.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 09:32 PM

I don't get to the 12th Fret that often, but anytime I have been there I have found them extremely helpful & knowledgable. The last time I was there I was buying a banjo head, some picks and strings. The first fellow that I dealt with clearly wasn't a banjo guy, but he quickly got the "banjo guy" for me who was very helpful & professional.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Grab
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 09:40 AM

I'm sure honesty is inversely proportional to the general "glossiness" of the store. The larger stores with a few instruments arranged to look good and little in the way of gear are more likely to rook you; the small music shops with instruments and music piled floor-to-ceiling on every wall will invariably give you an honest deal.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 10:05 AM

Hickies in Reading UK is a great little music shop. Plenty of time, plenty of advice, and really nice people.
I always buy from there because in the past they have given me bits & peices from their spares drawer (from scrapped instruments) for little or no charge.
Also, I've heard that they've done some really nice deals on shop-soiled / slightly damaged goods - particularly appreciated by the less well off.
The other shop in town I avoid, because it seems too flashy and they don't seem friendly.

Kris

Subject: RE: Do you trust music store staff?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:49 AM

I've only had one occasion to deal with George Heinl, when I was advised that they carried a three-quarters size gig bag for a cello that would fit my Glen Reid acoustic bass guitar. Until that time, I'd been carrying it wrapped in a blanket and stuffed into a garbage bag. With a weekend of travel coming up, they were willing to accept a postdated check (only four days) from a complete stranger, so that the instrument would be protected.

I have to give them full marks for that.