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Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'

DigiTrad:
FREEDOM COME ALL YE


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GUEST,Stefan 26 Mar 02 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,Stefan 26 Mar 02 - 04:52 AM
GUEST,Mikey joe 26 Mar 02 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,Mikey joe 26 Mar 02 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,Stefan 26 Mar 02 - 05:01 AM
Scabby Douglas 26 Mar 02 - 05:14 AM
GUEST,Mikey joe 26 Mar 02 - 05:15 AM
Jon Bartlett 26 Mar 02 - 02:05 PM
Big Tim 26 Mar 02 - 02:08 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 26 Mar 02 - 02:23 PM
Susanne (skw) 27 Mar 02 - 06:22 PM
Jack Campin 10 Oct 18 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Scabby Douglas 10 Oct 18 - 12:23 PM
Anne Neilson 10 Oct 18 - 04:20 PM
Tattie Bogle 10 Oct 18 - 05:14 PM
Anne Neilson 10 Oct 18 - 05:40 PM
Jim McLean 12 Oct 18 - 03:54 AM
Senoufou 14 Oct 18 - 05:36 AM
Tattie Bogle 14 Oct 18 - 04:51 PM
Jim McLean 15 Oct 18 - 03:44 AM
Jack Campin 15 Oct 18 - 04:14 AM
Senoufou 15 Oct 18 - 04:32 AM
Jim McLean 15 Oct 18 - 05:28 AM
Jim McLean 15 Oct 18 - 05:55 AM
Jack Campin 15 Oct 18 - 06:16 AM
Jim McLean 15 Oct 18 - 10:12 AM
Jim McLean 15 Oct 18 - 10:16 AM
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Subject: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Stefan
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:49 AM

Hi all,

I'm a native German speaker, but I've managed learning a wee bit of Scots over the years through regular listening to Scottish music. Yet I've never been able to fully understand Hamish Henderson's classic "Freedom Come All Ye", which many of you might know and love as much as myself. This is some heavy stuff ;) Might some of you Scotsmen please enlighten me in the meaning of some words and the general message of that song? What I think is that it's an "internationalist people's liberation song", but maybe there's more behind it?

I've put the lyrics (as given on Dick Gaughan's page) below, and I've put the unclear expressions in capital letters and added a few comments. Yes, there are many capital letters ;)

Roch the win i the clear day's dawin Blaws the clouds HEILSTER-GOWDIE owre the bay But there's MAIR NOR A ROCH roch win blawin ("more nor a rough"? What kind of expression is that?) Thro the Great Glen o the warl the day It's a thocht that wad GAR OUR ROTTANS (no idea at all) Aa thae rogues that gang GALLUS fresh an gay Tak the road an seek ither loanins Wi thair ill-ploys tae sport an play

(Second verse is relatively clear, so now the 3rd)

Sae come aa ye AT HAME WI FREEDOM (at home with freedom? what does Henderson try to say with that?) Never heed whit the HOUDIES croak for Doom In yer hous aa the bairns o Aidam Will fin breid, barley-bree an paintit room WHAN MCLEAN MEETS WI'S FRIENS IN SPRINGBURN (who's "McLean & his friends" and why "Springburn"?) Aa thae roses an GEEANS will turn tae blume An a black LAUD frae YONT (=yonder?) Nyanga DINGS THE FELL gallows o the burghers doun.

Thanks so much for your help.

Greetings, Stefan


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Stefan
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:52 AM

OOPS!

I just found that there's already a thread for that topic.

Dreadfully sorry.

Yet further help is still appreciated.

Cheers, Stefan


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:56 AM

Scroll down to the bottonm of the Dick Gaughan page for a word for word translation.
http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/songs/texts/freecaye.htm
Mj


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:56 AM

Also of interest

http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/index.cfm?id=316172002

Mj


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Stefan
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:01 AM

Thanks,

I had the lyrics from another source which stated they're from Dick Gaughan's page. I'd better have had a look there first, for there are all the answers I could have hoped for.

The newspaper article was quite enlightening, too.

Thanks.

Stefan


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:14 AM

This song is among the very very few which always make the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

It's a masterpiece of meaning set to a stirring and inspiring melody.

I went to the Dick Gaughan site URL posted above, and even though I have known the song for years, re-reading the lyrics, and Dick's translation, I was very moved.

How many songs can do that to you?

No matter how many times you've sung it, or heard it, it always siezes and lifts you . There are other songs that can do that, but not too many..

Cheers

Steven


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:15 AM

another link
http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/inart486.htm

Mj


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 02:05 PM

I haven't got any hair on the back of me neck but when I heard it sung while driving on the freeway, I had to pull over and weep.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Big Tim
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 02:08 PM

Can I also just add a line of tribute to this great song, also Dick Gaughan's version of it (with Five Hand Reel), also Dick's minor "treatise" about the song on his website. You certainly don't have to be Scottish to appreciate this song, it's one of the very, very greatest.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 02:23 PM

Probably on the other thread, but here is the click for Dick Gaughans site. It deserves attention for others as well: Gaughan


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 06:22 PM

See also My Songbook for some history. As to John McLean, there are a few more songs about him.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Oct 18 - 11:29 AM

Dick's site seems to be gone. Has anybody archived it? The page about this song in particular?


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: GUEST,Scabby Douglas
Date: 10 Oct 18 - 12:23 PM

I had to root about a bit on the Wayback Machine, but I found this version of the page in question:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080915172952/http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk:80/songs/texts/freecaye.html


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 10 Oct 18 - 04:20 PM

Thanks to Scabby Douglas for finding the link.

I remember buying one of the wee booklets of Scottish protest songs containing Roch the Wind whilst I was still at secondary school c.1960/1 -- think McMillan's speech about 'the winds of change' was possibly 1959? -- and can't confirm that we learned it at our school Ballads Club in Rutherglen Academy, led by our English teacher Norman Buchan (later to be involved as editor/co-editor of two significant books of Scottish songs) before becoming a Labour MP.
But Norman was a close friend of Hamish and somehow or other we became aware of this wonderful song.

What I can say is that there are umpteen levels of appreciation of the lyrics -- as a teenager I understood some of the anger of the verses, but the subtleties almost certainly evaded me. And I can confirm that it was an ongoing process to put together my understanding of Hamish's vision.

BUT it was all worth it, to be able to sing a wonderful song of the affirmation of shared humanity.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Oct 18 - 05:14 PM

Landmarks for me: being a volunteer steward at Edinburgh Folk Festival (the last one ever, sadly!) in 1999, and drawing the longest straw ever, to steward the Hamish Henderson 80th Birthday concert in "The Hub" (formerly St Columba's Church) at the top of The Royal Mile, just below Edinburgh Castle. Must confess that I didn't know an awful lot about Hamish prior to that night, but learned a huge amount in one evening. Hamish was already quite frail but came on stage towards the end of the concert to lead "Freedom Come All Ye": hugely touching moment.
Some time after that, I was at a workshop with Gordeanna McCulloch who presented this as one of her workshop songs: she went through every word, explaining the meanings to those of us of lesser Scotticism, and thereafter it still took me about 5 years to learn it, but now I sing it with huge pride. This includes last Saturday, both playing and singin it during the "All Under One Banner" March for Independence down Edinburgh's Royal Mile: this was as we passed the Scottish Story-Telling Centre where this is a commemorative bust of Hamish looking down on all assembled company!


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 10 Oct 18 - 05:40 PM

Wonderful (future) memories, Tattie Bogle!

It's definitely a song that grows on you, as Gordeanna would attest.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 12 Oct 18 - 03:54 AM

I remember hearing Jackie O'Connor singing it in 1960 just after Hamish wrote it. Jackie sang it throughout 1961 and was the first to record it, unaccompanied, on the Ding Dong Dollar LP which was released on April 1962.
I haven't heard a better version that Jackie's.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 05:36 AM

I like Anne Lorne Gillies' version of this song (on Youtube). The lyrics are there to read while she sings.

I'm so dim, I've only just realised that '...the black boy from yon Nyanga' is Nelson Mandela! Duh.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Oct 18 - 04:51 PM

It is usually sung at the end of any TMSA (Traditional Music and Song Association of Scotland) gatherings. Some would have it as a Scottish National anthem, though I believe (and agree) that Hamish said it was more of an international anthem. And yes, Senofou, Nelson Madela: and Hamish wrote other songs in his honour.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 03:44 AM

I think you're wrong about Mandela. The song was written in 1960, two years before Mandela was imprisoned. The "black boy ...... " was a symbol of what could happen. Later he wrote specifically about Mandela.
I discussed this with Hamish.
The trouble with the song as a National anthem is that sometimes, say Olympic ceremonies, only the tune is played and as the tune was written by Pipe Major John McLellan, it would have to be called "The Bloody Field of Flanders".
The lyrics are superb but if we are to have a Scottish National Anthem, I would suggest "A man's a Man" as it can be sung slowly with feeling and also speeded up, effectively, as a March.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 04:14 AM

The tune isn't quite the same as what pipe bands play as "The Bloody Fields of Flanders" - the differences are greater than those between "The Mist Covered Mountains" and your "Smile in your Sleep" tune. Similarly "The John Maclean March" is audibly different from "Scotland the Brave" - both derive from a common original.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 04:32 AM

Jim that's most interesting. But why did he pick Nyanga specifically? Perhaps because it was a township? Was he referring to whites' treatment of blacks in general?
I like the line 'Black and white ane til ither mairriet'. That describes our marriage!


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 05:28 AM

Jack,, if you google Bloody Field of Flanders and play any of the images shown the melody is almost identical to that sung, albeit in a different tempo.
I chose the pipe tune version of Mist Covered Mountains, over the singing version of Chi Mi na Morbheanna, being a piper I preferred the variation.
I agree with the John McLean March melody differing considerably (and the Irish Donal a bu ... spelling!) from Scotland the brave.

Senoufou, Nyanga was a hot spot during Apartheid but Hamish's song was quite prophetic.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 05:55 AM

I forget how to do blue clickies and I dont't have the time just now but if you go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNJ5Sl-x5t8 you can hear the pipe tune. Ignoring the normal pipe repeats for the second part and the first couple of notes ONLY at the beginning, there's no denying the melody is the same as what is normally sung for the Freedom Call All Ye, albeit the tempo.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 06:16 AM

Bagpipe score:

https://www.bagpipelesson.com/bloody-fields-of-flanders-bagpipe-sheet-music.html

Differences: the three even beats at the end of the first part (that throws you if you knew the song first) and it's twice as long as the song, with variant repeats in the second part.

So you could tell whether a band was playing the original march or the song if they were doing it as a wordless anthem. Pipers do sometimes get a bit aerated about song tunes and their pipe versions getting mixed up. Iain Grant got annoyed with me more than once for playing the song version of MacPherson's Farewell when he wanted to do the pipe band one.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 10:12 AM

I would say these very slight changes are pretty negligible as is the repeat of the second part.


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Subject: RE: Help: Scots Language in 'Freedom Come All Ye'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 10:16 AM

..... and thanks for the blue clicky, Jack.


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