OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:04 PM

Good thread creep Snuffy. Churchill displayed more care about social reform than many of the so called socialists. I get scared by people who would re-write history to agree with modern social engineering.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 06:59 PM

For he's took me out of the workhouse
He's giv'n me life that's free
Ten shilling a week for doin' nowt
That's what Lloyd-George gave me.

(Apologies for thread-creep towards music)

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:25 AM

Fiolar. Lloyd George was persuaded by his good friend Churchill to change policy on social reforms. Although lacking in details my post is quite factual. As President of the Board of Trade, 1908-10, he had been responsible for placing on the statute-book several far-reaching measures of social reform which have survived to this day,including a scheme of National Insurance to provide every citizen with a state retirement pension and the establishment of Labour Exchanges nationwide to assist the unemployed to find jobs. As possibly the only holder of his office to have been in prison -- Winston was captured during the Boer War and held captive in Pretoria until his celebrated escape, brilliantly described in his book My Early Life --he well understood what it was to be deprived of one's liberty. He was particularly shocked by the large numbers of young people being committed to prison and by the fact that two-thirds of the prison population had been jailed for offences no graver than drunkenness or the failure to pay a fine. The reforms which he instituted led to a reduction in these categories of prisoners from over 170,000 to fewer than 12,000 during the next ten years.
Although Churchill's reforms have benefited millions of his fellow countrymen down the decades, his tenure at the Home Office is more frequently associated with the violent and turbulent events taking place at the time: the Siege of Sidney Street and the Tonypandy riots. In the case of Sidney Street, in the East End of London, the Home Secretary was criticised in Parliament for having visited the scene of action and taken personal charge of operations in the danger zone after a gang of anarchists had killed three policemen and wounded two others. Far graver, however, were the charges levelled against him over his handling of the riots in the Welsh mining valleys of the Rhondda. It is deeply ingrained in the mythology of Socialism in Britain that Churchill sent troops to Tonypandy to `shoot down the miners' in the autumn of 1910. The charge could not have been further from the truth: it was actually Churchill who, on learning that the War Office had dispatched soldiers, had them detrained at Didcot and substituted mounted police instead. But this has done nothing to prevent the currency of the lie being propagated by modern day revisionists.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST,bagpuss at work
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 07:51 AM

Her greatest quality was that unlike her son in law she knew when to keep her mouth shut.

Therefore there are relatively few recorded instances of her talking about her admiration for PW Botha and how she thought Europe was being "beastly" over the the apartheid regime. Pretty fond of the way things were in Rhodesia too and if that wasn't enough she was a fan of Thatcher...

I wonder if there will be a sudden run on commemerative queen mum teeth from viz?

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Fiolar
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 07:30 AM

Regarding pensions - it was Lloyd George actually with his "Old Age Pensions Act" of 1908.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: harvey andrews
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 05:02 AM

I never mentioned pensions?

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 07:32 PM

It wasnt Labour that started pensions Harvey it was Winston Churchill

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: harvey andrews
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 05:18 PM

Yes, my mother and father were of that generation and worked throught the war unceasingly. My father fought to beat fascism. then to set up the postwar labour Govt, the Health service etc and also, he hoped, to get rid of privilege and the royal family.There were many like him.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 05:14 PM

Here's the middle part of that Guardian letter, which went missing en route(it'll probabaly turn up nowe, having gone some peculiar route to get there)

They lived through the worst century on record, fought and struggled through devastating wars, invasion, bombardment and against the worst kinds of ideological enemies. They won, and they set to work reconstructing Britain with at least a shot at justice.

My own peer group are pygmies by comparison, and we have feebly created a dangerous and soulless world for our own offspring to inherit. The old woman who died aged 101 was of that extraordinary generation. The role she played was forced upon her by circumstances and coincidences. She acquitted herself well - much better than any of my own contemporaries I can think of, or anyone at all in the upcoming bunch.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 05:08 PM

Though totally of the left, I would prefer it, if Britain is ever to have a president, that he should be something like the Prince of Wales, with whose particular ideals and ideas I know where I stand, than with Tony Blair, with whom I don't.
Ian Flintoff
London

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 05:07 PM

Here's a letter from Tuesday's Guardian (April 2nd)that I find myself essentially in agreement with.(And I'll havce to post it in a couple of shots, because anything over two paragraphs or so doesn't seem to get through.)

What a charmless and emotionally stunted bunch some of your correspondents on the Queen Mother must be (Letters, April 1). Though a socialist and an active toiler in the ranks of the Labour party, I am unceasingly aware that my parents' generation may possibly have been the most valiant in human history.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 04:50 PM

They moved her coffin to London yesterday, and the newspapers had a picture of the Queen's piper playing The Dark Island.

I wonder if the author will get any royalties for that, or is Royalty exempt from royalties?

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Blackcatter
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 01:01 PM

Oh yeah, I feel so sorry for her numerous servants who are on the dole.

First of all, I find it hard to believe they do not have a "roof over their heads" a week after her death. Are you telling us that the Queen chucked them out of their accomodations even before her mom was buried?

Also - yes they are probably on some sort of dole - but more like the kind of unemployment compensation you get when you loose a job (duh) there have got to be jobs out their for them. There are always plenty rich people who need employees to put up with their stupidity.

And who in the hell can get mad at someone for dying and leaving people unemployed? It reminds me of all the idiots who claimed that Bill Clinton "avoided" Vietnam military service by going to college (including becoming a Rhoad's Scholar at Oxford - talk about taking deferrment seriously!)

pax yall

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 06:36 PM

Hitler would have got you next babe.... pity he didnt...

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: iRiShBaBe
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 03:41 PM

i aggree its sad that she died. every death is a sad one, but being the irishwoman that i am i can safely say that i wont be crying into my cornflakes...

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 10:34 AM

"she and George were certainly in favour of appeasement of Hitler rather than going to war." But then, so were most people.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Grab
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 10:09 AM

Interesting bit from the Guardian, quoted from a summary of her life:-

"She was an obstacle to reform: a fan of pomp and circumstance who bitterly opposed the notion that members of the royal family should pay tax. Her closeness to her grandson, Charles, embroiled her in the family's biggest crisis since the abdication.

When it became clear that Diana would not behave as she believed a royal should, the Queen Mother became the princess's greatest enemy (a mutual hatred recorded in Andrew Morton's Diana: her true story, in her own words). Diana believed that the Queen Mother saw her as a second Wallis Simpson and that she had persuaded other family members that the princess was out to undermine all that the Windsors stood for. Such revelations momentarily took the shine off the Queen Mother's status as the "nation's favourite grandmother". Although she is known for her smile, for a long time only her closest companions knew what lay behind it.

In 1998 Woodrow Wyatt's diaries confirmed what many former courtiers had said. The Queen Mother was portrayed as an elderly woman who adored Margaret Thatcher and apartheid-supporting South African PW Botha, disliked Europe, the unions and middle classes, was against immigration and regretted the loss of imperial possessions in Africa.

The Queen Mother believed that it was the duty of a royal to behave like a royal. To this end she lived in almost Edwardian splendour at Clarence House; with six cars, three chauffeurs, five chefs, two pages, three footmen, two dressers and 30 more assorted secretaries, maids, treasurers and housekeepers. As a hobby she bred racehorses.

The Queen Mother received £643,000 a year from the civil list but this goes only a very short way to covering her running costs and she is subsidised by her daughter. Nevertheless, her lavish tastes have still seen her £4m overdrawn at the royal bank, Coutts."

Re Joe's story, that sounds highly unlikely. However, she and George were certainly in favour of appeasement of Hitler rather than going to war.

Graham.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: PeteBoom
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 10:08 AM

Tam - precisely.

Fiolar - When you are "in service" - that is what you are. Should they (personal servants and attendants) displace others in similar positions? Should they be kept on in memory of their departed mistress? Some things have NOT changed since 1066. That's just a fact.

It CAN be life-long emplyment - usually for the life of the person you are waiting upon. Not that I agree with the system, simply, it IS the system - and will be until everyone is totally equal in every way.

Regards -

Pete

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 09:45 AM

but that's the risk you get with these types of Jobs.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Fiolar
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 09:42 AM

An interesting point in today's Guardian. Apparently the 50 or so servants who waited hand and foot on the late departed Queen Mother are now on the dole without (some of them) a roof over their heads, those that is that lived in Grace and Favour accomodation. That includes her butler. The same apparently has happened to the late Margaret's servants. So much for a "sweet old lady" and "everyone's favourite grandmother." I remember my grandmother who was also a young widow and worked hard to bring up a family of five kids and thank God she was nothing like the Queen Mother.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:30 AM

"six by each" - meaning, I take it "six of one and half a dozen of the other", or "same difference". Quite economical, and a new one to me - which part of the world is it current in?

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:22 AM

I believe it was the other Windsors, Edward and Wallis who were prepared ( at least Hitler thought) to be puppet monarchs. They were sent to Bermuda to keep them where they could be harmless.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: PeteBoom
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 05:22 PM

Enquirer? Nah - The Observer... six by each in my book.

Nuff said...

Pete

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 05:08 PM

Joe!!! I'm amazed you can read (well done) but people like you remind me that more people read the National Enquirer than the National Geographic... Gawd dont read newspapers except as entertainment buddy. Read something else and learn something worthwhile...

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 05:02 PM

Joe, I suggest you actually read history before preaching your fantasy version of it mate. Hitler called her "the most dangerous woman in the world" because she was prepared like other British subjects to shoot any Germans that landed on London; and she inspired people to keep fighting.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST,joe in the 'pool
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 04:58 PM

I read in the Observer, some time ago, that war records released 60 years later, revealed that the Queen mum had contacted the Nazi's and agreed to surrender the crown when they invaded, on condition that they allowed the Royal family to continue to as the heads of state?

So much for my grandfather dying for freedom..the Heads of State cared only about THEIR families lines in history, and NOT the peasants who line the roads for her death.. Oh yea to all the Yankee's, life's not all tweeds and bloody roses yer'know..it's about HISTORY (see native's of America for that one eh!)

Joe

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST,Dagenham Doc
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 04:38 PM

I don't care wether she's alive or dead to be honest.They can fill her full of what ever Keith Richards lives on and bring her back to life for all I care,she never did me any harm and what she was part of is history.She was born into it, as they all were and I was born in little house in th east end of London.We did have a corgi though! ... No what gets me and never fails to are the bleeding heart liberals that continue to whine on about who should say what, and post where. I bet your lives are boring.

Doc.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 04:37 PM

Guest Alan are you telling us to shut up and discuss music because you think we should? This is a Cafe' and not your exclusive music site. We choose to discuss this at the moment, so either join in or go to a music thread.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 03:58 PM

Why are you all talking about this when you should be discussing music? This is what the Mudcat Cafe is all about -or should be......

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 03:49 PM

"reigning" is not the same as "ruling". It just isn't true that the Queen "rules" in any meaningful sense. There are still Pearly Kings in London. They have about as much political clout with Ken Livingstone as Queen Elizabeth has with Tony Blair.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 03:39 PM

Because (Guest above)we believe in respect and good manners. There is a time and place for everything; and your invective (which is strange and detailess) has no place in a thread intended for paying respects to someone. I have no doubt that freedom of expression to some would mean pissing on the leg of the US President; but such behaviour is not decent or politically effective or socially relevant. Very much like your input.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 02:09 PM

rea ponders thus:

"Why someone would feel obliged to come into a thread where people are mourning a passing and make snide remarks and political statements is beyond me."

She was the matriarch of the Windsor family, which continues to rule the British empire (such as it is now, but that is another story), well beyond the shores of England.

What is ludicrous in the extreme is to have an expectation that when a death in the British royal family occurs, everyone who has suffered at the hands of the Windsors should be expected to be polite and not comment on the many political aspects involved when a death in the British royal family takes place.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 01:25 PM

Prince Charles's tribute to his grandmother
I know what my darling grandmother meant to so many other people. She literally enriched their lives, and she was the original life enhancer, whether publicly or privately,whoever she was with. And in many ways, I think she's become an institution in her own right, a presence in the nation and in other realms and territories beyond these shores. At once indomitable, somehow timeless, able to span the generations. Wise, loving, with an utterly irresistible mischievousness of spirit. A mostly strong character, combined with a unique, natural grace and an infectious optimism about life itself.
Above all, though, she understood the British character, and her heart belonged to this ancient old land and its equally indomitable and humorous inhabitants whom she served with panache, style and unswerving dignity for very nearly 80 years.
I know too what she meant to the whole of my family, particularly to the Queen, for whom she was always such a stalwart and sensitive support ever since my grandfather died when he was only two-and-a-half years older than I am now.
And for me, she meant everything, and I had dreaded, dreaded this moment along with, I know, countless others. Somehow, I never thought it would come. She seemed gloriously unstoppable and ever since I was a child, I adored her. Her houses were always filled with an atmosphere of fun, laughter and affection, and I learned so much from her of immense value in my life. Apart from anything else, she wrote such sparklingly wonderful letters, and her turn of phrase could be utterly memorable. But, above all, she saw the funny side of life, and we laughed 'til we cried, and oh how I shall miss those laughs.
And the wonderful wisdom borne of so much experience and of an innate sensitivity to life. She was, quite simply,the most magical grandmother you could possibly have, and I was utterly devoted to her. Her departure has left an irreplaceable chasm in countless lives that, thank God, we're all richer for the sheer joy of her presence and everything she stood for.
Broadcast on Monday, 1st April
One would only hope that someone would be so eloquent about us when we go......

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Fiolar
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 04:07 AM

At least she died naturally (I presume) unlike her late father-in-law George V who was hastened on his way by a cocktail of drugs injected into his jugular.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:25 PM

Her late Majesty, ... etc

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: rea
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 05:24 PM

*sigh* could I just point out that the purpose of the thread seems to have been to note the passing of a remarkable woman (whether you did or did not like her, she was remarkable). No one forces anyone to read these threads, and I'm sure we all skip threads each day in favor of others. Why someone would feel obliged to come into a thread where people are mourning a passing and make snide remarks and political statements is beyond me. If you wish to do that, please start your own thread. There are people who are mourning. There are people who are not. Such is the way of life. In the Middle East at the moment, some are celebrating the deaths of Israelis in a cafe, others are mourning. They will continue to clash over their grief. I had thought the Mudcat to be a different place. How sad that instead it seems to be repeatedly afflicted with posters who disrespect the creators of a thread and post extremely rude messages about the subject. If they were to be polite and logical, as some have been on this thread, it would not bother me so much. Please, 'Catters, can't we be adults?

For the record, I'm an American who does not have any feelings about the British royalty. It is not an aspect of society I understand. I have my own political troubles about which to worry ("George II," for one).

Thank you all for you time, and a very happy spring.

rea

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 02:15 PM

"you Yanks" and "my...ass"(sic) in the same post? Doesn't seem linguistically consistent somehow.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST,HRH EIII
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 01:17 PM

Besides, look at all you Yanks who are so sycophantic toward (particularly British) royalty. Not to mention those who have been given royal honors:

"Sir" Paul McCartney my royal ass, but it's good for commerce.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 01:12 PM

"They are the summit of the class structure that holds this country back."

The summit doesn't hold up the mountain, the mountain holds up the summit. Knocking away the tip of the summit doesn't do anything at all to stop the mountain crushing us.

I just can't see the process by which the absence of a Queen or a King would make any contribution at all to hitting the class system and the imbalance of property ownership.

Is it that different in countries without a hereditary monarchy?

If there came into existence a genuine movement towards abolishing inequality, I can imagine that one symbolic way of achieving that might well involve getting rid of the monarchy. Roll on the day.

But I don't think that at this time the fat cats who own us and exploit us would be the least bit inconvenienced by the absence of the Royals. In fact it would probably suit a lot of them down to the ground. It's worth noting that Rupert Murdoch, as unsavoury and powerful a fat cat as you can find, is all for a "republic".

Save up the monarchy until it might mean something to abolish it.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:53 AM

I've heard previous monarchs referred to as HM the late King whatever but in view of the fact that there is not likely to be another Queen mother in our life time I suspect the term 'late' will be dispensed with and she will still just be known as the Queen mother.
Must say I'm glad I didn't buy shares in Gordon's!!!!

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:14 AM

mmhh, good question Jon.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:51 AM

well said Harvey

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: harvey andrews
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:48 AM

Mr McGath says:
"Get rid of the Royals and it would make about as much of a contribution to making England a better place to live in as it would if the Royals got rid of the Corgis"

I beg to differ. They are the summit of the class structure that holds this country back.One per cent of the population own 80% of the land, and I bet the Queen Mother knew every one of them.. Only 7% of Britain is available for us "Commoners" to live in. The Royal Family is the supporter of all this and is its reality made mainifest.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:22 AM

Now we have the HM/HRH bit cleared up, perhaps someone tell me: Is she now The Late HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother or HM The Late Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother or HM Queen Elizabeth The Late Queen Mother...?

Jon

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Fiolar
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:10 AM

So an era has finally closed. I wonder how the royal family will cope now. According to reports a third of the population of Britain will genuinely mourn her, a third will feel a passing sadness and a third will think "so what" and wish that the televsion didn't spend so much time covering the event. The above postings show a mixed reaction. But to put things in perspective, she never had to dirty her hands to support the family and was raised and lived in the lap of luxury all her life. She was capable of carrying a grudge for practically ever and never forgave "Crawfie" for publishing her book on the princesses. If the report that Princess Diana described her as "the chief leper in the leper colony" is true then the picture of a sweet old lady is very far from the truth. Still she has passed on now and is a part of history. To describe the event as "sad" is a slight exageration. Now if she had been a young working class mother with two or three young children dependent on her - that would be sad.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:43 AM

She was HM, not HRH

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 05:48 AM

I like, Everybodys got to learn sometimes by The Corgis.

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 05:38 AM

I can't stand Corgis and am obviously the daughter of Satan! I believe that none of the Royal Family's dogs are housetrained which is probably why they keep moving from palace to palace to allow Chem-Dry in!!!!

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: Mudlark
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 01:04 AM

I don't know the ins and outs of the royal family, living as I do across the pond, but anybody who loved corgis cant be all bad....RIP, Queen Mum....

Subject: RE: OBIT: HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 11:56 PM

After reading through these posts i can see where I've been wrong of course. Sorry al. GOD BLESS THE QUEEN MOTHER. There I've said it.