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Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher

DigiTrad:
THE LINCOLNSHIRE POACHER


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Leftish Parody on 'Lincolnshire Poacher' (10)
Help: Lincolnshire Poacher (8)


mlogsdon@teleweb.net 19 Oct 96 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Mark 21 Aug 00 - 07:48 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 21 Aug 00 - 08:09 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 21 Aug 00 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 21 Aug 00 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,Mark 21 Aug 00 - 09:10 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 21 Aug 00 - 09:18 PM
GUEST,Mark 22 Aug 00 - 03:12 AM
GUEST,Bruce O. 22 Aug 00 - 03:30 PM
Jim Dixon 07 Sep 16 - 05:13 PM
Rumncoke 07 Sep 16 - 07:22 PM
GUEST 10 May 18 - 01:46 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 07 Sep 19 - 02:42 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 07 Sep 19 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 07 Sep 19 - 07:25 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Sep 19 - 02:15 PM
mayomick 08 Sep 19 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 08 Sep 19 - 02:48 PM
Steve Gardham 08 Sep 19 - 04:02 PM
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Subject: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: mlogsdon@teleweb.net
Date: 19 Oct 96 - 03:18 PM

I am trying to determine the earliest known version of The Lincolnshire Poacher. I would like to find someone who can tell me what source they have found that has determined the age of this piece. I love it, but I won't let my Fife and Drum Corps play it, unless it comes from the 18th Century. Thanks for the help, in advance.

Mark Logsdon


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Subject: Reasking the question
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 07:48 PM

Are there a number of versions to this song?


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 08:09 PM

That's usually not possible on songs from broadsides. It's #299 in Steve Roud's folk song and broadside indexes, and copies by Pitt and Catnach are of the 1st half of the 19th century. Northamptonshire seems to be found as the place more often then Lincolnshire. Search title/fist line/tune on the Bodley Ballads website (in Mucat's Links) for copies under several titles: Poachers, Bold Poachers, Shiny Night.


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 08:55 PM

Robert Bell's headnote, 1857, about a copy printed at York about 1776, is reprinted in a book at Click Search there for "The Lincolnshire Poacher"


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 08:58 PM

My blue clicky didn't work. Go to: www.geocities.com/~spanoudi/poems/ballads.html or click onto Bell's book on the SCA Minstrel website.


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 09:10 PM

The Lincolnshire Poacher (from http://www.geocities.com/~spanoudi/poems/TitleIdx/titles-l.html)

Apparently the original tune is that of a Lancashire air, well known as The Manchester Angel; but a florid modern tune has been substituted.

Does anyone know what the "Florid modern tune" is? I am off to look for the Manchester Angel.


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 09:18 PM

"The Manchester Angel/ Lincolnshire Poacher" is in William Chappell's PMOT, p. 734, so the other is probably "The Lincolnshire Poacher" on p. 732. T


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:12 AM

Thanks Bruce.

Much appreciated.

Dont spose there's a web source for the above refs.


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Subject: RE: Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:30 PM

Wm. Chappell says the tune for "Manchester Angel" was used for "The Lincolnshire Poacher" in 'the North of England, and the site was changed from Lincolnshire to Lancashire.' The last one is the tune collected by W.P. Merick from a Mr. Hills at Shepperton in Nov., 1899.

X:1
T:The Manchester Angel
S:Chappell's PMOT, p. 734
Q:120
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:Eb
(E/F/)|G2 G (EF)G|A2FD2E|F2GE2E|\
(E3 E2)F|G2A (Bc)d|e2cA2B|cde d2 c|\
(B3B2)F|G2A (Bc)d|e2cA2B|cde d2c|\
(B3B2) E/F/|G2 G (EF)G|A2FD2E|F2GE2 E|||(E3E2)|]

X:2
T:The Lincolnshire Poacher
S:Chappell's PMOT, p. 732
Q:120
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:Em
E|G2 G (GF)E|(D2C) B,2 D|G2GA2F|\
(G3G2)D|G2AB2c|(d2B)G2A|B2B (BA)G|\
(A3A2)D|G2 AB2c|d2BG2A|B2B BAG|\
A3.B2A|G2G GFE|D2CB,2D|G2GA2F|(G3G2)|]

X:3
T:The Northamptonshire Poacher
S:JFSS I, #3, p. 118, 1901
Q:120
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:Cmix
G|F2EC2C|G3F2D|F2EC2C|(C3C2)C|F2FG2G|\
c3F2F|c2c=B2A|(G3G2)||C|F2FG2G|c3F2F|\
c2c (B3/2A/) B|G3G3|F2DC2C/ C/|G2AB2 G/ G/|F2EC2C|(C3C2)|]


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE LINCOLNSHIRE POACHER (Chappell, 1838)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Sep 16 - 05:13 PM

From A Collection of National English Airs, …, Vol. 2 edited by W. Chappell (London: Chappell, 1838), page 62. I have boldfaced the words that are different from the version in the DT.

No. LX. IN THE SEASON OF THE YEAR, sometimes called THE POACHER'S SONG, the date or origin of which it is difficult to trace; but so well known among the peasantry, that it has been sung by several hundred voices together at Windsor, at the harvest-homes of George the Fourth.


THE LINCOLNSHIRE POACHER.

WHEN I was bound apprentice in fair Lincolnshire,
Full well I serv'd my master for more than seven year,
'Till I took up to Poaching, as you shall quickily hear,
O 'tis my delight, on a shining night, in the season of the year.

As me and my comarade were setting of a snare,
'Twas then we spied the gamekeeper, for him we did not care,
For we can wrestle and fight, my boys, and jump o'er anywhere,
O 'tis my delight, on a shining night, in the season of the year.

As me and my comarade were setting four or five,
And taking on him up again, we caught the hare alive,
We took the hare alive, my boys, and thro' the woods did steer,
O 'tis my delight, on a shining night, in the season of the year.

We threw him over our shoulder, and then we trudged home,
We took him to a neighbour's house, and sold him for a crown,
We sold him for a crown, my boys, but I did not tell you where,
O 'tis my delight, on a shining night, in the season of the year.

Success to every gentleman that lives in Lincolnshire,
Success to every Poacher that wants to sell a hare,
Bad luck to every gamekeeper that will not sell his deer,
O 'tis my delight, on a shining night, in the season of the year.

* [The tune is given in volume 1 of the same work, page 32:]


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: Rumncoke
Date: 07 Sep 16 - 07:22 PM

My mother used to sing this.

The version I wrote down is very similar to the one in the Digitrad, with a few differences

In verse 2 line two, The gamekeeper was watching us, for him we did not care

Verse three line three We put her into a bag my boys and through the wood did steer

Verse four line two We called into a neighbour's house and sold her for a crown

Verse five begins Now I do favour poaching I think its very fair.

One thing I noticed - the hare is called 'he' in the two versions, but hares are called 'she', or puss - at least by country folk.


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 18 - 01:46 PM

i was born in 1961 but I remember my Dad spotting poachers' old bangers in the woods by night & although he didn't support, nothing would have induced him to intervene - a means of subsistence for the rural poor well after the 19th century, in my experience


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:42 PM

I came across this thread from Mainly Norfolk.
I collected a tune for this song from Bill House of Beaminster in 1984
it's the Manchester Angel Tune. Bill insisted it was the Poacher song he had heard. A version of the Manchester Angel was collected in 1906 about 300 yards from Bill's front door, from old Sam Gregory the shepherd if my memory serves me. It found it's way into the Penguin book. I wouldn't mind some Dorset based words if any exist, Bill only had the tune. Just a thought.


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:14 PM

Nick, if you mean Dorset based words for the Lincolnshire Poacher, the Roud index lists only 2 fragmentary texts collected by Hammond Lincolnshire Poacher collected in Dorset. I had a look at them - it looks like just one verse each: D239 Piddletown and D210 - Lackington


Mick


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:25 PM

Yes Robert Barratt and George Dowden, a master carter and sea captain respectively. They used to sing together in the Blue Vinny Pub Puddletown. Robert Barratt had throat cancer when he sang to the Hammonds.
I have dug up an extra verse to the regular verses.

I used to be a fowler as my father did before
The Gentry they enclosed the land so now I break the law.
So now I break the law my boys for I think poaching's fair
It's my delight &co

Not sure it's traditional, and does not appear in any street literature. Nice verse though.


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:15 PM

I'm a Boston lad.

I remember the Lincolnshire Regiment (now no more) were called The Poachers and they had the right to parade through the town with bayonets fixed. this they would do, with their band playing this song.

perhaps if you asked the ministry of defence how long and from what date they were called the poachers, it would tell you if the song stretched back to the 18th century.

just an idea. some of these old regiments have people who trace their history.


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: mayomick
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:17 PM

Isn't it the roughly the same tune as the one for A-Hunting We will Go ?


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:48 PM

The usual tune yes, but not the Dorset tune. I reckon the 'Angel' tune is in the Miller of Dee family of tunes, and possibly stemmed from the 'Gregory Walker' tune. Top of the pops in the seventeenth Century.


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Subject: RE: Origin: The Lincolnshire Poacher
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:02 PM

Very few regimental marches go back any further than the mid 19th century. Some were even Music Hall songs.

One reason why many tunes are difficult to trace back accurately is many ballads were sung by the broadside sellers and they would have a set repertoire of say 20 tunes and whichever fitted best to the ballad they were selling they would use. However if a ballad was sung regularly in a stage musical and became very popular its tune would be nationally well-known and when it was collected in oral tradition later it would have a very stable tune. Think Dark-eyed Sailor, Green Bushes, Lord Lovell etc.


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