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Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control

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DonMeixner 02 Apr 02 - 08:04 PM
Escamillo 02 Apr 02 - 09:36 PM
Alice 03 Apr 02 - 12:10 AM
Alice 03 Apr 02 - 12:18 AM
Alice 03 Apr 02 - 12:21 AM
ciarili 03 Apr 02 - 01:26 PM
GUEST 03 Apr 02 - 01:48 PM
Don Firth 03 Apr 02 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,ghost 03 Apr 02 - 03:10 PM
Celtic Soul 03 Apr 02 - 06:26 PM
DonMeixner 03 Apr 02 - 11:39 PM
GUEST 04 Apr 02 - 06:20 AM
Skipjack K8 04 Apr 02 - 07:57 AM
Alice 04 Apr 02 - 10:58 AM
Vixen 04 Apr 02 - 11:08 AM
Alice 04 Apr 02 - 12:21 PM
ciarili 04 Apr 02 - 12:47 PM
Alice 04 Apr 02 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,David 14 Nov 11 - 04:47 PM
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Subject: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 08:04 PM

I have been working on improving my voice which it need some considerable. I am discovering the presence of a vibrato in my voice that I don't like. Its there whether I warm up or not. It seems to be more a function of power and air volume to make a note. Its not present in the higher levels but in the sustained mid level notes

eg: Oh Danny Boy~~vibrato~~~~~~~

Any solutions? I imagine its more breath control.

Don


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Escamillo
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 09:36 PM

Alice ! Come to this thread, please. In the meantime: if you haven't taken classes with a professional (classical) teacher, it is time to do it. He/she will determine if the problem is breath control (almost sure it is), or may be that you are singing too low and out of your natural range.

A moderate vibrato is desirable, however. Classical singing is almost unthinkable without it, as well as an exaggerated vibrato is taboo. If you have purposely avoided vibrato as many folk singers do, it is certainly possible that under the supervision of a classical teacher, you may discover a new and enhanced sound in your voice.

Un abrazo - Andrés (a bass who used to feel better as baritone and happened to be a tenor)


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Alice
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 12:10 AM

Hello, Andrés!

Don, without hearing and seeing what you are doing, it's hard to give you a definite answer. Sometimes people get a "wobble" in their voice, which isn't good no matter what style of singing you are doing. This page doesn't address the wobble, but it does list 10 common problems of singers. Click Here - 10 interrelated problems of singers.
Addressing each of these possible problems could correct the wobble or wavering sound. Blending from the lower part of your range to the higher part can be learned by using techniques of placement in how you create sound and that ever-present breath support ;-).

One thing you can try is to warm up and exercise your voice each day by humming, being relaxed while you do it, getting the sound vibration to feel like it is on the surface of your face (the mask) not back in your throat. Start humming in the middle of your range, then add higher notes, then lower. This can help you to blend your vocal range so you don't sound like you have a break - so it is consistent all the way from low to high.

Never push your voice. Let the sound be carried on the stream of air that you are sending out when you sing. Pushing can eventually ruin your vocal cords, creating nodes and other problems no one wants.

That link I gave has some good tips on what problems to avoid.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Alice
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 12:18 AM

Found the wobble link! I knew I had bookmarked a page that had the information. Here it is:
http://www.voiceteacher.com/coupdeglotte.html

To quote in part - "The driving of the breath pressure was an attempt to make some kind of audible resonant sound. In actuality I could not make a resonant sound because the pharynx was closed. The larynx was driven into a high position because of the incredible breath pressure. My larynx shook up and down with the vibrato and I had begun to develop a wide vibrato (wobble). I was only 28 years of age and my voice was in ruins, mainly because of the terrible instruction I had by teachers who knew nothing of the Old World training; the training that developed so many world class singers in the early 20th Century...."

I recommend reading the entire page at the link above.
Good luck.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Alice
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 12:21 AM

I meant to credit that quote and I hit "submit" too soon. It is an article called Coup de Glotte, written by David L. Jones.

alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: ciarili
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 01:26 PM

My voice teacher actually warns against the "mask" technique. It works for some people, when their instincts are right in the first place. However, feeling the mask does not guarantee that you are engaging in correct vocal production. You can be singing badly and feel the mask!

You need someone really, really good in order to insure that you don't get screwed up bigtime! It happened to me at Indianan University, one of the best music schools in the United States! Ask the person you choose to interview for the job whether (s)he understands vocal production fully, what kind of credentials (s)he has, whether or not they know what aritenoids are (tiny muscles used to "zip" the vocal chords closed), etc. Do some reading ahead of time about the voice and how it works.

Where do you live, by the way?

ciarili


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 01:48 PM

ciarili, I agree. My teacher has never used the term "mask", although you hear alot of people refer to it. Just trying to get the message across to not push against the vocal folds.

Don, words are inadequate to explain all of this without someone hearing you and seeing what you are doing, then knowing what to tell you to correct it.

alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 02:53 PM

Alice can probably verify this, but I have always heard that a certain amount of vibrato is not only desirable, but necessary.

First, vibrato gives life to a voice. A voice without some vibrato sounds flat and dead—hence, some vibrato is indeed desirable. Second, I've heard some singers and one voice teacher say that vibrato is a sort of "feedback mechanism" that keeps the voice zeroed in on the desired pitches. Someplace in your medulla (or thereabouts) something says "Too high," and lowers the pitch, then says "Too low," and raises the pitch, etc., all happening unconsciously and very quickly. Hence, vibrato is never "intended," it just happens naturally. What lends a certain credence to this "feedback" idea is that I've noticed that people whose voices are devoid of vibrato tend to sing slightly off-pitch (either sharp or flat, but usually flat) most of the time.

Don't try for vibrato, just let it happen. It'll come. But if you don't want it—well, I don't know what you can do about that. But a wide, slow vibrato (wobble) isn't good. This seems to indicate that something isn't working right. Probably the first place to look would be breath support.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 03:10 PM

What about intentional over use of vibrato? I caught someone doing this at an open stage last Friday. He had excellent control over this aspect of his singing voice but used this ability to showcase his skill in every song he sang. So, instead of just singing his songs, they were merely used by him as springboards for his vocal calisthenics. While there's nothing inherently wrong with showing off your skills at an open stage, it was a little like hearing a guitar player use the same lick to display his skill in each of five consecutive songs. It's great the first time but loses something with over use and can become a genuine distraction. I found myself wishing he would throw aside his vocal skill and just sing.


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 06:26 PM

Intended vibrato is fine. If it is not intended, or you cannot control it, then perhaps it is not vibrato. It may be a sign that you need to learn to support your voice, as the "vibrato" you mention *could* be your running out of breath before your done the line.

The very best advice (and likely this has been mentioned previously) is to get a vocal coach. No one can really diagnose the problem here, as we can't hear you to know what it is you're doing.


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Apr 02 - 11:39 PM

Thank you all for the advice. It all seems to be the same advice so maybe I'll get a voice coach and see, a hear, whats up.

Alice, I love the stuff I hear from you on Ren-Radio.

Don


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 06:20 AM

re: Ghost's comment. I know exactly what you mean. It is why I literally cannot stand Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey. They both have incredible voices but I wish sometimes they would just sing the damn song. We know what their voices can do, I just don't want to hear it in every line in every song.


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 07:57 AM

Sorry, misread thread title as "Singeing unintended / Vibrator Control".

Skipjack


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Alice
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 10:58 AM

Vibrato in singing is a matter of taste. I can't stand to hear it overdone - it sounds corny to me, whether it is a pop singer, opera, or whatever genre (Bill Murray as lounge singer on Saturday night live ;-). I also don't care for all the wild "styling" that pop singers are doing. Straight-out gospel style by a real gospel singer is great, but pop singers have taken that and are over-doing what they call "styling". I think you can hit a note and be in key, singing it straight and clear without noticable vibrato - in fact that brings to mind a web page (on www.standingstones) I found on the complaint that "California young singers" were being too affected by Italian style tremolo. This book, Sixty Years of California Singing, was written in 1913. It would be interesting to hear recordings of the different voices mentioned as having the the terrible "fault" of vibrato. It could be they are talking about wobble, not vibrato. The phrase "messa di voce", which is not vibrato, but soft>loud>soft transition of volume on one note, confuses what the writer is trying to say about vibrato. Mrs. Alverson on Vocal Vibrato

Don, what is Ren Radio?

alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Vixen
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 11:08 AM

Alice--

Could you please re-post your excellent link to all the related voice threads???

Thanks,

V (who's been trying to find it!)


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Alice
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:21 PM

Threads on the singing voice

I will add this thread to it.

The bottom line for me is that I want to use methods that will keep my voice healthy and sounding good for as long as I live. In using what science and the history of singing has shown to be good techniques in preventing damage, I can preserve the health of my voice and have better range, tone, volume control, at the same time. In the same way that I know I should bend my knees when lifting something heavy in order to prevent back injury, I know that I shouldn't do things with my voice that will cause vocal cord damage.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: ciarili
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:47 PM

Btw, don't ever let some idiot tell you that without vibrato one cannot define the pitch. I studied early music at Indiana University, and I just love to imagine somebody saying that amongst the comany I once kept. They'd be laughed right out of the building! I wish I knew what dipstick originated that comment, but I've had to put that to rest time and time again!

Vibrato is a natural effect of correct singing. The vocal chords just do it, and trying to eliminate it entirely pretty much means that you're just stiffening up the vocal folds. Like singing too low, during which you fatten up your folds, it eventually leads to damage. Know this, and beware the evil Nodes!

About the guy with the affected vibrato - it kinda sounds like the old ornament where you trill on the same note.

ciarili


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: Alice
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:53 PM

Did a search and found Renradio. I didn't even know I was on there. Thanks, Don. - alice


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Subject: RE: Help: singing unintended Vibrato/ Control
From: GUEST,David
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:47 PM

A good singer can decide whether to have vibrato in the voice or not, much early music is performed with no vibrato at all and many session singers on film scores etc use their voice like any instrumentalist, deciding whether or not to add the vibrato in. It is an aesthetic choice. It is also not necessary to vary the pitch, or bleat like a lamb, varying the pitch can lead to trilling and the hammer - like vibrato may sound great on Tina Turner but is quite strident and it isn't the only option. In a cappella music it is often better to have little or no vibrato - look up The swingle Singers on YouTube, especially the keyboard pieces like the fugues they do, amazing control.
Try singing the word 'yeah' on a fairly long note, then pulsing the breath on 'yeah, eh, eh eh' without changing the pitch and you'll get a feel for how gentle a natural sounding vibrato can sound and feel. A good singing teacher will help you get rid of excess tension which might make things head towards the hammer vibrato, and then help guide you to a natural sounding vibrato. Search online for someone qualified, say through the Estill organisiation http://www.estillvoice.com/
good luck!


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