Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?

Subject: $1500 on 12 string-which?
From: GUEST,Janner
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:14 PM

I have spent a couple of days going through all (well most!)the existing threads on 12 strings and have learnt a lot but would ask for some more help in my quest.

I am a Brit (well a Cornishman!)working occasionally in the US. I play 12 string with what we would call a 'pub band' (6 string, 12 string, banjo, mandolin, harmonica, vocals, no amps/pickups). I presently play a Yamaha 12 which has seen better days and wish to 'upgrade'. My time to compare will be limited (maybe one or two days in Houston so I need to narrow things down a bit with some mudcatters expertise. Everyone seems keen on Guilds (although not so well known in UK?) and the JF30 is on my list....but how will that compare with, say, a Martin J12-16GT, and what about the new Gibson J185-12? I need volume, tuning stability, value, tone.... (I bet someone comes back and says buy a Taylor....)

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:19 PM

Janner,

I have played the Martin recently and I found it a bear to play. The neck was heavy and the set was kind of high so it was hard to fret at standard pitch. With the higher action it went out of pitch when tuned down. I have played D 12-20s that were a joy to play and hear.

I don't know about the Gibson at all.

The very best 12 string guitar I have ever played was a Guild. And I have a friend with a J-30 12. Nice action great sound, trim but sturdy neck.

Don

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:20 PM

No opinions other than those you've alreday seen Janner. Lots of fine 12's out there. The new Martin stuff is getting good reviews, especially the 16 series. Guild is still a fine instrument although I worry more since the Fender takeover. I'd avoid the new Gibson stuff although they used to make a fine 12 in the B45-12. And sure, Taylor, Larrivee, and a lot of others are in there too........hard choices!!....But a lot of fun.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:22 PM

Interesting Don as I just read a player review where the damn thing got good marks! Just goes to show doesn't it? Personal choices Janner....play as many as you can.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 11:12 PM

It depends on where you tune your guitar. If you like to tune down to C or B like Leadbelly, a really big bodied, ladder-braced instrument like the old Stellas & Harmonys' is what you're looking for. Maybe a '60's Gibson B-45-12. The Guilds are nice too. Of course those last two(and Martins, D-12-20) sound real; good with heavier strings tuned down to D. My personal preference is for the real low tunings.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: Gypsy
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 11:34 PM

Without question, Guild. We have a friend who is a collector of fine instruments, so borrow his before purchasing anything. And we wound up with a Guild. Even i can play it. Nice light guit, for a 12.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 01:08 AM

Well if you want Volume...you may not want the Gibson. The Martin is a bit clunky and strangely balanced. The Larrivee is very nice..but pricey. If you can't find a Guild, which is of course the original old warhorse, I'd go for a Taylor.....OR a Takimine.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: Murph10566
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 07:19 AM

I'd have to second Rick on the Takamine - Many years ago (20 +) I picked up a Tak 12-string - an absolute 'Guild Wanna-be', down to the inlay and distinctive Logo design...

I ached for (but could never have afforded) the Guild model - I still have the Takamine - and wouldn't part with it's sweet clear resonance, easy action and 'comfortable' fit... 'Course, still haunted by the occasional Guild-daydream...

Sorry that I don't know how current prices compare against the Guild or Taylors - I do know that some Tak's are on the high end (deservedly, I think)...

I'll be interested in your decision, and how it fits into your group, Janner - Let us know, OK ?

Good luck, M.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 08:10 AM

I own a Guild 12, mid 60's vintage. I wouldn't own any other. Every time I am in Elderly, I try the Martins, Taylors, Seagulls, etc. I take them down to the practice rooms and play them. There are some nice axes, but they just don't compare to the Guild. If I were you, I would check Elderly's catalogue for a used one. These things age wonderfully. You can pick one up for about $1200.00 US.

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 08:58 AM

Taylor every time.(Unless you can afford an APOLLO) Considering everything, quality, price, tone etc. the GUILD may be your best bet.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 08:28 PM

i'd go for an old guild as well. had one for years.

especially the dreadnaught body with rosewood back and sides from the 60's or 70's, they have a much more percice sound than the more famous jumbos, but any old guild is great.

other wise to do better you have to go to new hand makers that are great but will usually cost you a fortune

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: 53
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 10:49 PM

Look at the Taylors, and the Larivees, they are really nice.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: JohnnyBGoode
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 10:51 PM

I've heard good things about Larrivee 12's, and like Larrivee 6 strings.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: GUEST,Dan Schatz
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:23 PM

I'm with Kendall - the best is Apollo, and one of the smaller ones would be in your price range.

These are built by Nick Apollonio from Rockport, Maine (and if you're lucky enough to find the odd used around, it'll probably be known by his name). Nick has found ways to do things with bracing that allow more sound out of a 12 than you ever would have thought possible. Gordon Bok plays Nick's 12-strings, as does Judy Collins and Paul Stookey. I love mine with a passion - and I think Kendall has one too.

The website is www.members.mint.net/memusic. (Sorry I don't know how to make the link light up blue.)

Seriously, if you're buying a 12 string, you couldn't find a better instrument or (for that matter) a better value. I think they're the best in the world.

Good luck!

Dan (who _still_ needs to reset his cookie....)

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 04:21 AM

I'm sorry, if I pay $1500 for a 12, it'd better play itself...

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: burntstump
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 06:06 AM

Get Steve Clarke in Nottingham to make you one or if in the USA look out for an old Gibson B28 same as Lightfoot plays.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM

I would not change my Custom Jumbo Cort 12-string (less than $1,000) for any other guitar. Beatiful action, amazing sound, superb preamp with twin pickups. And looks to kill for, as an extra. I have had it for 10 months now, and I am deeply grateful to Mike Blair (Bedroom Music, Bedford) for pointing me in its direction.

The Corts have only been around under their own brand name for three years (they used to be rebadged as Tanglewoods and I think Gibsons too), but they're cutting a well-deserved niche in the market.

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:18 AM

I may have been lucky, but my Martin DM12 plays (and sounds) the pants off any other 12 I have ever owned or played (including Eko Ranger, Gibson B45-12, Takamine, Yamaha, Washburn, Guild, Maton and Martin D28-12). Mine is a factory 2nd (!) but after 3 years, I have found no shortcoming, and it only cost me around GBP600 including HSC.

Play as many as you can, don't rush the purchase and keep an open mind, you can often find unexpected bargains.

Trying to remember what make George Papavgeris (El Greko)'s new 12 is, because that's a nice guitar to play.

Alan

Subject: RE: Help: $1500 on a 12 string - but which?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:27 AM

Our posts crossed, Alan - it's a Cort CJE-12