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Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton

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Bluebeard 09 Apr 02 - 12:14 AM
greg stephens 09 Apr 02 - 05:22 AM
GUEST,Geordie 09 Apr 02 - 08:31 AM
GUEST 09 Apr 02 - 09:00 AM
Rick Fielding 09 Apr 02 - 09:20 AM
GUEST,Moleskin Joe 09 Apr 02 - 09:49 AM
BanjoRay 09 Apr 02 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Bluebeard at work 09 Apr 02 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Geordie 09 Apr 02 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Stooball 09 Apr 02 - 05:15 PM
Steve-o 09 Apr 02 - 07:10 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 10 Apr 02 - 01:02 AM
Mudlark 10 Apr 02 - 02:27 AM
BanjoRay 10 Apr 02 - 09:05 AM
Charley Noble 10 Apr 02 - 10:43 AM
Rick Fielding 10 Apr 02 - 01:27 PM
The Shambles 10 Apr 02 - 02:33 PM
Steve Latimer 10 Apr 02 - 02:43 PM
Gareth 10 Apr 02 - 06:53 PM
The Shambles 11 Apr 02 - 02:01 AM
greg stephens 11 Apr 02 - 06:03 AM
Rick Fielding 11 Apr 02 - 04:07 PM
MartinRyan 03 Nov 02 - 05:34 AM
The Shambles 03 Nov 02 - 06:35 AM
Marc 03 Nov 02 - 07:56 AM
MartinRyan 03 Nov 02 - 08:05 AM
GUEST 20 Aug 15 - 07:39 AM
Dave Hanson 20 Aug 15 - 08:49 AM
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Subject: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Bluebeard
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 12:14 AM

I was interested to see a zither banjo on the new Arts and Entertainment TV movie about Sir Ernest Shackleton's voyage to Antartica in 1914. Invented by Alfred D Cammeyer in 1888,they were very popular in the UK prior to WW1. Does anyone have any information regarding the authenticity of this portrayal? Learned to play banjo on one of these and wish I'd kept it.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 05:22 AM

don't know about banjo authenticity, but the singsong in the Shackleton movie has attracted abit of derision. They sang "Tipperary" and "Scotland the Brave". By all accounts, Tipperarywas not a popular number that early, and Scotland the Brave is highly unlikely as it was a 50's pop song!


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 08:31 AM

I did not realize that Scotland the Brave was a recent song..can you tell me who wroye it and when ?


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:00 AM

In Fact Tipperary, written by an Englishman, J. Judge, was hugely popular at that time and in 1914 1 million copies of the sheet music were sold. It was written in 1912 and was popular in Englad at that time. I did not become popular in Ireland until after the First war. It is more than likely that Shackleton or his crew were familiar with the song.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:20 AM

Yup, the zither banjo was right in place (Being an authenticity freak, I noticed it right away). Actually they're pretty common in music stores these days, and the 12th Fret in Toronto has two of them for sale currently....they don't fetch high prices (yet). Very much an 'acquired' taste, sound wise.

It would have been difficult for the film crew to get it wrong, since it was in several of the original pictures from the exhibition.

The original posters from the Woody Guthrie bio-pic, Bound For Glory, had Mr. Carradine (at least 10 inches taller than Woody!) humping a Mossman Golden Era (sans case) complete with fancy inlays and gold pegs, while ridin' the top of an ol' freight train....now THAT was a tad silly.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST,Moleskin Joe
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:49 AM

Geordie, I think Cliff Hanley wrote "Scotland The Brave".


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: BanjoRay
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:58 AM

This is from a Website with the lyrics:

"The lyrics were composed by Cliff Hanley and set to an old pipe tune. The music is traditional and old. There have been many lyrics and adaptations to this wonderful melody. Cliff Hanley was a leading Scottish writer and broadcaster. At Christmas 1951, he wrote his own lyrics to this magnificent melody at the request of Robert Wilson, who at the time was performing in a musical show at the Glasgow Empire Theatre. Cliff wrote the new lyrics and the piece was used to close the first half of the show. Since then it has become one of the main contenders for the Scottish National Anthem."

Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST,Bluebeard at work
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 12:48 PM

Hey, Thanks Rick. I just might take a trip down to the 12th Fret and check them out.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 12:52 PM

Thanks for the info. I had always thought it was an old song, the lyrics I mean. Do you know what the original tune was called ?


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST,Stooball
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 05:15 PM

You want a zither banjo? Got one hanging on the wall that I can't play since my left shoulder started complaining about being hung out there at that angle. Bought it as a wreck for $45 in a Winnipeg used book store and had it made playable by the guys at Rufus Guitars here in Vancouver for about another $200. Make me an offer!


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Steve-o
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 07:10 PM

Regarding Rick's "thread-creep" on the Bound For Glory movie- yeah, what a shame that virtually everything was done wrong on that movie (STARTING with casting a great big tall, straight-haired guy to play Woody!) The guitar is particularly ridiculous. My wonderful folk music teacher, Bess Hawes, told me that Woody always owned Gibson guitars because they were so solidly built. She said he often, when walking down the N.Y. subway tunnels, would hold his guitar by the neck, let it drop onto its butt-pin, and bounce back up into his hand. That would only work with a Gibson....


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 01:02 AM

When Shackleton and his men were at base camp gearing up for the expedition he impressed upon them how imperative it was to take nothing but the bare minimum of items, since they would have to carry everything and only the essentials could justify their weight. At this point the man with the banjo (whose name I forget) ruefully held up his instrument and said something like Well, I guess I'll have to leave this behind. But Shackleton told him to bring it, knowing how important it would be for his men's morale. It was, too.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Mudlark
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 02:27 AM

One of those great looking dogs they shot would have done more for my morale...


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 09:05 AM

Yes, Mudlark - you'd have ate it!

Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 10:43 AM

What did they do with the concertinas?


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 01:27 PM

Cheezz! I'm impressed...They KEPT the banjo, and dumped the concertina!?

Just wanted to say that I've watched both the Branaugh flick and the documentary (with original footage)...what a ripping yarn! great stuff.

P.S. Heather was seriously pissed when I told her that "Shippy" (MacNish?) was denied a medal afterwards 'cause Shckleton never forgave him for his insubordination. His decendants don't think much of it either.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 02:33 PM

Shackleton did bring all of them home, including MacNish. Some folk are never grateful. He didn't shoot him, as others may have done under the same circumstances.

Perhaps he thought that having to endure months of banjo playing was punishment enough?

Was it 'Chippy' or Chippie rather than Shippy?


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 02:43 PM

Okay, I'm completley out of the loop. I read about this expedition and was awed by it. Is the movie in the Theatres or is it a direct to video? If it is in the theatres is it suitable to take a 10 & 12 year old child to(banjo playing notwithstanding)?


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 06:53 PM

Just a thought - Antartic conditions - is/was it possible to play a "Zither" in gloves/or risk frostbite ???

Gareth (in inoclastic mode)


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 02:01 AM

They did a great version of 'shivering' banjos, I understand.

As far as I know, both the drama and the documentary were produced by UK TV's Channel 4, but whoever is responsible for them should be praised. I do not think a big screen distribution for the drama was intended.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 06:03 AM

GUEST suggests that Shackletons men would have been familiar with Tipperary as it was publishedin 1912 and sold a million copies in 1914. I think you're wrong. As I understand it(Ihavent done much serious looking and correctme if I'm wrong) Tipperary was first published as a waltz, and republished in march-time in 1914 to make it a suitable war-song. Shackleton set off before the war got going, and his men would therefore presumably not know the popular war songs that kicked in in the last few months of 1914.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 04:07 PM

I thought that "Shippy" was a generic nickname for a ship's carpenter. Could well have "Chippy". Does anyone know for sure?

I know this for sure....If I'd been one of the men trapped on the ice, Shackleton would have shot me about two days into it!

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 05:34 AM

"Chippy" it was.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 06:35 AM

Shackleton Expedition songs


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Marc
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 07:56 AM

In American merchant services, he carpenter was usually known as Chips or Chippy. I assumed it was the same with the British. Althought they do spell Chanty wierd.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 08:05 AM

In one account of Shackleton's journey form ELephant Island to South Georgia, (Frank Worsley's?), there's a jokey reference to Tom Crean's tuneless singing. In one case, "good detective work" decided he was singing "The Wearing o' the Green" - a second one left them unable to make out a word. I've always ahd a sneaking suspicion the cute Kerry hoor was singing in Irish!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 07:39 AM

OCTOBER 27, 1915.
The Endurance is now badly damaged having been stuck in the ice for over 9 months - Abandon Ship! Ocean Camp established. Shackleton orders each of the 27 men to dump all but two pounds of personal possessions. Exceptions are made for Frank Hurley's photographs and Leonard Hussey's banjo.

12:01AM BST 30 Jun 2002
A banjo that helped to keep up the spirits of Ernest Shackleton and his fellow polar explorers as they sat trapped in the Antarctic ice, fearing that rescue would never arrive, is at the centre of an extraordinary legal tussle.
The banjo, valued at £150,000, would be brought out each night by the ship's meteorologist, who would play popular tunes to entertain the crew during their ordeal. Such was its sentimental value, that it was one of the last items rescued from the Endurance before it was crushed by polar ice in 1915.
The banjo returned to Britain with its owner, Dr Leonard Hussey, and eventually was given to the National Maritime Museum. It has since featured in numerous exhibitions about the Shackleton expedition.


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Subject: RE: Review: Zither banjo on Shackleton
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 08:49 AM

Shackleton told Hussey that he had to take the banjo because it was ' vital mental medecine '

A BBC2 radio programme with this title was made a few years ago.

It was indeed a Windsor zither banjo.

Dave H


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