HTML Stuff

Subject: Dan Mulligan's HTML Guide
From: Dan Mulligan
Date: 06 Apr 98 - 07:02 PM

There seem to be a lot of HTML questions being asked these days, so I thought I would try to help out.
Here is a list of html tags. The word in the center is an example of what the tag does.
Each tag begins with < (left angle bracket) and ends with > (right angle bracket).
Style Tags modify the way your text looks. NOTE: In general, all HTML commands will take the form:
<COMMAND> text </COMMAND>.

• <B>bold</B>
• <I>italics</I>
• <STRONG>strong</STRONG>
• <BLINK>blink</BLINK>
• <CODE>code</CODE>
• <EM>emphasize</EM>
• <ADDRESS>
  address
  </ADDRESS>
• <CITE>citation</CITE>
• <SAMP>sample</SAMP>
• <KBD>keyboard entry</KBD>
• <TT>teletype</TT>
• <BIG>big print</BIG>
• <SMALL>small print</SMALL>
• <SUB>_subscript</SUB>
• <SUP>^superscript</SUP>
• <STRIKE>strikeout</STRIKE>
• <PRE>

  preformatted text

  </PRE>

Heading Tags are very similar to style tags. Headings come in six sizes, 1-6. 1 is the largest. 6 is smallest. The heading tag also includes an implicit <BR> at the beginning and end. The format for the heading tags is <H#> with # being a number 1-6, and they look like this:

<H1>

This is a size 1 heading

</H1>

<H2>

This is a size 2 heading

</H2>

<H5>

This is a size 5 heading

LINKS

Links come in three basic varieties: links to other files, links to the same file and links to pictures.
To link to another file on another server, use
<A HREF="http://server/path/filename.html"> anchor text </A>. This is called absolute linking. The tag is called an anchor.

Example: <A HREF="http://www.disney.com"> The Walt Disney Home Page </A>

To link to another file on the same server, use <A HREF="path/filename.html"> anchor text </A>. That is called relative linking.

Example: <A HREF="../auction/Auction.html"> The Auction Block</A>

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: T.Mutha
Date: 08 Apr 98 - 11:19 PM

Cool Dan!

Thanks.
I like your little logo too!

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Apr 98 - 11:36 PM

Strange, now I can see how very much stuff I don't know having just touched my first computer in 1/98. I know how to read E-mail & find Mudcat & look at some other sites. But what does HTML mean or stand for anyhow??? Everything in the beginning posting to this thread might as well be an unknown language from a planet in another galaxy!

Aint proud of my ignorance--but not embarrassed either; just new to this brave new technography!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Dan Mulligan
Date: 09 Apr 98 - 12:59 AM

Art, HTML=Hypertext Markup Language. It tells your Browser (netscape, I. Explorer, etc.) what the page should look like and do. All web pages are created usining HTML commands. You can use html commands to create special effects like italics or to create live links in your postings to this forum. That is what the above list is, it is a list of html tags that you can use in your postings. Each tag comes in two parts, a prefix and a suffix.
example:

strong

=the prefix
= the suffix< using these tags before and after the word strong will make it look like this:
strong
If you wish to create a live link use this tag:
click here!

If you wish to see what the html looks like click on "view" at the top of your browser, then "document source" ,assuming that you are using Netscape. (If you are using Internet explorer, get Netscape and get rid of that crummy Microsoft software.)
I hope this helps you out.
Dan

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Max
Date: 09 Apr 98 - 01:32 AM

HTML stands for HyperText Markup Language. Hypertext is the concept like web pages and help files. Certain words are "HOT" (blue and clickable) which means you can enter them for more depth should you choose. It adds an element, no, a dimension to information. The content/context is defined by the specific interests of the reader. There have been ongoing experiments in literature to integrate this technology, but I have seen little to stimulate the idea.

A Markup Language means that its actual functions and apearance are defined by an interpreter, namely your browser. You can think of this markup language (HTML) just like a word processor, but instead of highlighting the text and hitting the bold button or using the keystroke command, you manually code it by using a consistent system of normal characters to define the beginning and the end of what you want bold.

Lets say we want @ to mean the beginning of bold and a $ to be the end. You then program the browser to understand that the @ and the $ are the bold code. When the browser gets the page, it takes the @ and $ and interprets (translates) them, that is, shows you bold text instead of the @bold text$. You do this for each element of style that you would need to incorporate and make sure that every browser on the web knew all those symbols, and you have your own Web.

HTML was designed mainly for appearance. Before HTML we just had gopher and newsgroups which used ASCI text as their standard which didn't even let you change the size of the text let alone add images or control locations.

Java is the same principle but at a much higher level. It can do just about everything any other computer language can, like C or C++, but is interpreted by what they call a virtual machine (VM) which to most is their browser.

Why do this? It is essentially an industry standard that all agree on to get things done. If Netscape and Microsoft (the bastards) had (very) different markup languages, we web page builders would have to make sure to make 2 different websites (which we end up doing anyway cause Microsoft won't cooperate) so that users of each can take part in the Mudcat. Not to mention Macs vs. PC's and Unix, and variations of each, and each different browser available for each. What a nightmare. The current number of variations and combinations of operating systems and browsers are well over 100.

Java is a program language that runs on any kind of machine that has a VM. The success of Java is its massive compatability. Programmers and companies love it because it saves time, money and effort, and buyers love it because it doesn't matter if you have a Mac or a PC or unix or any browser...

Gosh, I sure do ramble on. Crash course on my world.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From:
Date: 09 Apr 98 - 02:59 AM

I join you in damning both Microsoft and Netscape, Max, but perhaps for different reasons.

I think the idea of HTML was that there would be a world-wide standard and that extensions wouldn't be made without the standards being changed accordingly. MS and NS seem to have moved the language to the corporate battlefield--each fighting to outdo the other with non-standard extensions. There are very few sites that can be visited with, for example a text browser nowadays. This is a disadvantage for people with slow connections--OK so they can fork out and improve their gear; but it also is a disadvantage for some people with handicaps who can use a text browser much more easily than a mouse--hot key driven one. There are some sites that are useless with a text browser because they depend so much upon these extensions.

Now for the warm friendly closing paragraph. I often hook up to mudcat with a text browser when I have a slow connection. I can't, of course, see pictures and I couldn't use the chat room, but the basic functionality is there. Thanks for that, Max

Murray

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Apr 98 - 09:12 PM

Thanks so much!Yesterday I was an infant crawling around the floor. Today I took a step. Tomorrow is the marathon. At least I'm in the race!

Do truly appreciate all your input---and your expertese---and your tolerance!

Art

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Dan Mulligan
Date: 10 Apr 98 - 12:41 AM

I don't nkow what happenned ,but earlier today when I viewed this letter it looked like this (and made much more sense.) But somehow the HTML that I used got changed. Oh well I am sure you got the idea by now Art.
Nice job with your explanation Max....I think you put it better than I did.

Art, HTML=Hypertext Markup Language. It tells your Browser (netscape, I. Explorer, etc.) what the page should look like and do. All web pages are created usining HTML commands. You can use html commands to create special effects like italics or to create live links in your postings to this forum. That is what the above list is, it is a list of html tags that you can use in your postings. Each tag comes in two parts, a prefix and a suffix.
example:

<STRONG>strong</STRONG>

<STRONG>=the prefix
</STRONG>= the suffix
using these tags before and after the word strong will make it look like this:
strong
If you wish to create a live link use this tag:
<A HREF="http://web address here"> click here!</A>

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Max
Date: 10 Apr 98 - 11:27 AM

Dan, I changed you html probably. I was tidying up. Hope i didn't ruin anything.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From:
Date: 06 May 98 - 12:01 PM

I thought the following, which I said in another posting, might be of interest here:

HTML, in its page design aspects, is essentially the same as the system of markup codes that is used in the field of book publishing. We call first-level headings "h1," second-level ones "h2," etc. and similarly for all other design elements of a book.

This system was in use in book publishing long before it was used on the Internet!

Rodney Rawlings

Stop the Persecution of Bill Gates and Microsoft - Stop the Punishment of Success for Being Success

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 06 May 98 - 06:44 PM

Mighty Stuff Lads!

But...what I really want to know is how to place graphics in Mudcat without wasting Trillions of Gigabytes on your server?

Dan Mulligan did it but I imagine if everyone started at that caper you would end up using thirty or forty times your current disk space. Plus, every thread containing graphics would take hours to load.

Could there be a special section, thread or a database allocated to graphics which could be cleaned out every two weeks or so?

Pictures are useful and even neccessary at times and it would be a great addition to the service you provide. I know I'm being a pain in the arse...but...I think a lot of Mudcatters would love to post maps, drawings of new badhran designs, LP covers and all sorts of useful stuff.

Sorry for raising issue but some other pain in the arse is going to raise the question sometime. I still have deepest respect for the great service we have now.

Frank McGrath

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 98 - 06:55 PM

Well, Frank, Max has asked us not to post images because it slows down the loading of threads. The graphics that have been posted are actually automatic-loading links to graphics from other Internet sites - so, when the thread loads, it has to load from both Mudcat and the other site. Graphics that are on the Mudcat Mother Machine would be a different matter, but Max has not set that up for us yet. Check here to see what we Mudcateers can do when we get carried away. Shortly after that, poor Max asked us to cease and desist.
Clickable links to graphics at other sites work very well here, though.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 06 May 98 - 07:28 PM

Thanks Joe,
I'm new here and still learning but...Clickable links to graphics at other sites is the answer.
For the time being of course...sorry Max.

Frank McGrath

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Dan Mulligan
Date: 06 May 98 - 11:50 PM

When posted those images earlier I did not know about Max's request. And even so , I used them sparingly so that the pages don't load slowly. Max never complained about them, perhaps he is less concerned now that he has a faster server.

To anon: Stop punishing Bill Gates? How did we punish him? By making him the wealthiest man that ever lived? He has such a grasp on the OS market he can produce a shoddy operating system and we have no choice but to use it, because there is no viable alternative. I bet you voted for Reagan too.....

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 07:06 PM

Hello, everyone - I have a problem when I copy lyrics from the forum and paste them into Microsoft Word. If the verses have been separated by the HTML <p> paragraph mark, Word reads that as just a carriage return, and the space between the verses is lost. When I post lyrics myself, I put a single line break tag <br> at the end of each line, and a double one at the end of each paragraph, <br><br>.
I usually type up lyrics in a word processor, and I put a single carriage return at the end of each line and a double at the end of each verse, and then I just search for the carriage returns and replace them with a carriage return plus <br>, and everything comes out hunkey-dory. It would seem to me that putting in both the line breaks and the paragraph marks would be extra effort, but maybe I'm seeing things wrong?
So, how about it? Is there a reason for using the HTML paragraph mark, or would it be better if we all do the same and just use the line breaks, and double line breaks between verses?
Yeah, I know I should probably get a real word processor, like Wordstar or something, and stop contributing to Bill Gates' Quest for World Domination (but I like MS Word....).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Sep 98 - 02:45 PM

....and now that Andreas has taught me how to post this so everybody can see it the same way, let me once again reiterate that the most important code you can learn for use here is the line break code, which sets lyrics off in separate lines instead of all mushed together. It looks like this:

<br>

Type it in at the end (or beginning) of each line. Or, copy it once and paste it in every time you need it. Or, type your lyrics in a word processor, and search-and-replace. Search for paragreaph marks, and replace them with a paragraph mark and <br>
As Ross Perot might say, "It's that simple......"
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 04:01 PM

A question about posting lyrics came up in another thread. I thought it might be a good idea to post my response in a thread that's more on topic. Here are a few pointers for posting messages:

1. Use header tags and large fonts very sparingly (h1, h2, h3, etc.) Using the <big> or <strong> commands should be enough to give emphasis to a title. The <small> command is quite nice for comments. Be sure to close off those commands with a slash at the end of the text you want emphasized, as in </small>.
2. Use line breaks <br> at the end of each line of lyrics, and double line breaks <br><br> at the end of a paragraph or verse. Try not to use the paragraph <p> command - people who copy the lyrics you’ve posted into word processors have trouble with HTML paragraph commands because many word processors read them as single line breaks and the verses get all mashed together.
3. If you're pasting text from a word processor into Mudcat, it's probably better to use single-spaced text. It's hard to predict how double-spaced text will appear in Mudcat. If you want to have double-spaced text in a Mudcat message, use double line breaks <br><br>, but do it sparingly. You can't get much double-spaced text on a laptop monitor, and some of your fellow Mudcatteers will hate you for filling up their laptop monitors with open space.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 10:51 PM

Maybe I could blame youthful exuberance, but in future I'll restrict myself to the use of br's at the end of each line. Thank you Joe - you're superb!

Regards
John

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 10:57 PM

Joe,

Thanks for bringing this back up. Mudcat started out as a place for me to get lyrics/chord help. Now look what it has turned into. HTML programming. Neat.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: BSeed
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 11:03 PM

I don't know if it works this way in windows, but for Mac users, the easiest way to write lyrics is to first type them normally, without taking time to do the HaTeMaiL stuff, i.e., hitting return at the end of each line, and twice between verses. Then, when you are done, type < br> without the space, select it (highlight it), hit command C, then at the end of each line hit command V and the < br> will appear automatically, and when you enter it, it will all be nicely formatted. But we still have gotta figure out how to put the chords above the lines, over the appropriate words. --seed

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bert C
Date: 07 Oct 98 - 08:26 AM

Those of you who (like myself) are highly PO'ed by non-standard HTML and the incompatibilities between IE and NetScape (and other browsers) should visit the AnyBrowser website. Support them any way you can.

By the way, this site also has great links to a variety of HTML composition resources.

Bert C. http://pages.prodigy.com/bcfss/

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 98 - 04:20 PM

Trying an experiment

Sing^D a song of sixpence^g7, pocket...

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 98 - 04:27 PM

yep...that sort of works, Seed...that first batch of HTML commands up ^ there has the SUP & SUB commands...if you enter the chord you want right at the end of the word with no breaks.(or, at the beginning, I guess) using the SUP command, it ought to be clear enough...right?^Gm

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bert C
Date: 07 Oct 98 - 11:22 PM

Bill,

The superscript idea is kinda neat and it's immune to the vagaries of proportional text fonts, but whaddya do if the chord changes in the middle of a long word?

I've tried using <PRE>Preformatted Text</PRE>, but it somehow gets messed up in the submission process. Here's an example of a method I have used successfully:

~~~~~G~~~~~~~~~~~~~~C
When I was young, I used to wait....

The tildes are unobtrusive and unambiguous, and as long as you view it in a fixed-pitch font, it comes out right. It seems like finding the perfect way to display chords and text is akin to the Holy Grail to Mudcatters.

Bert C.
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 02:25 AM

Seed, your system works exactly the same in the various iterations of Windows, except that the "copy" command is ctrl-c and "paste" is ctrl-v.
Bert, I think Bill's superscript chord method would work pretty well in a long word. Let's try it:

^CSupercali^Cmaj7fragilistic^C6expi^C#dim7ali^G7docious

How's that?

It seems to work better if the lyrics are emphasized with the <big> command and the chords are shrunk with the <small> command. The word would then look like this in the "post message" box before you post it:


<big><font color=blue>^<small>C</small>Supercali^<small>Cmaj7</small>fragilistic

huff, huff, huff.....

^<small>C6</small>expi^{<small>C#dim7}</small>ali^<small>G7</small>docious</big></font>

That looks like it would be impossible to do, but the miracles of copy-and-paste make it pretty easy.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 05:02 PM

*grin*...well, it comes close enough for me! I can 'hear' close enough to figure out where the chord changes, as long as I know it does, and what it is....thos who want to play with the embedded HTML for fancy effects are welcome to do it..(I guess I'll get to learning the fancier tricks eventually)

(Pretty neat example, Joe...and well executed!!)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: karen k
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 09:07 PM

I've been trying to teach myself HTML for the last couple of months and I getting the hang of the basics. But I'm a little confused here. I'd be happy to post lyrics using HTML but do I do it in a text editor like Notepad and then cut and paste into the Reply to Thread form? I can't just type them right into the Mudcat form, right, or can I? Typing into a word processor like WORD seems to be kind of cumbersome unless I'm reading it wrong.

So, I guess what I'm asking is what is the best way to submit a reply to a thread prepared in HTML? Where do I write the reply in HTML?

I hope I'm asking this in a way that is not totally confusing. I think it's a simple question but I may not be asking it simply.

Hope someone can help. Thanks

karen

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 09:47 PM

Hi, Karen - you can type your responses right in the "Reply to Thread" box, or you can type them on a word processor and paste 'em in. The advantage of the word processor is that you can edit, spellcheck, and copy/paste more easily. Once you have your message picture-perfect, you can copy it from the word processor and paste it into the Mudcat reply box. I usually type plain old messages right into the reply box, and do lyrics in my word processor. However, if you want your posting to look right, however you do it, you MUST use HTML tags. The main one is the line break which looks like this:

<br>

I type that line break symbol once, then highlight and copy it, and paste it wherever I need it. Hope that helps. If it doesn't, let me know.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 98 - 02:46 AM

Maybe this will help with posting links:

<a href=http://www.mudcat.org>The Mudcat Cafe</a>

That red part is the part the reader sees, and it can be any phrase you want. The blue stuff, which is enclosed in angle brackets, is the actual command, and the URL you're linking to is what's in green - what's inside the angle brackets is invisible to the reader. Make sense?
Here's another example, this one a link for sending e-mail:

<a href=mailto:[e-mail]>The Digital Tradition</a>

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: gargoyle
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 01:13 PM

Joe -

At the beginning of the thread an anchor is illustrated with quotes around the URL...ie<a href="http://www.mudcat.org">The Mudcat Cafe</a>

I have been using the quotes - are they not necessary?

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Dec 98 - 01:25 PM

Hi, Gargoyle - there are certain situations in links where quotes serve a purpose, but they are rarely needed. I recommend that people leave off the quotes because if you omit the second quotation marks and don't close the quotes within the link, you goof up the whole thread until I can get in there with my handy-dandy fixit button. Max has made it so most HTML mistakes don't affect subsequent messages, but the missing quotation marks still cause a problem. So, it's better to leave them out.
Same thing with the <p> mark for double-spacing between paragraphs or stanzas. It works, but if you copy stuff from the forum and paste into most word processors, the <p> leaves only a single space, and the stanzas get all squashed together. Better to use a double <br><br> mark.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 12:01 AM

ok!! it works! I had never studied the trick of how to display HTML formulas with the angle brackets, etc., showing...but I found a program that converts my written HTML to the necessary characters automatically! It was written for those who need to prepare tutorials...like we see up there /|\
... |

if you want to look at this little freeware program, it is here

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 99 - 03:44 PM

A couple of things that came up in the "Help forum.

Note that you have to cancel most HTML commands with a slash when you want them to stop doing their work. Kind of reminds me of the "Sorcerer's Apprentice." Examples:

</a> (closing links)
</blockquote>
</h3>
</font>

Notice that last one. If you want to change font color to red, you would put

<font color=red>

But you close it with just </font>

If you're posting a link, yuou can link to any page you can find on the Internet, not just to home pages. Actually, that's usually the best way to do it - highlight the URL in the address bar of your browser when you're at the page you want to link to, and then Copy it [ctrl-c]. Then Paste it [ctrl-v} into the link you're posting at Mudcat. There is just one problem with linking to a subordinate page like that - if you link to a page that's only going to be up temporarily, you link will go dead when that page is taken off the Web. That's not a big problem, though, and I wouldn't worry about it in the forum. In the links section of Mudcat, however, it's probably better in many cases to link to home pages than to specific pages at a site.

One more helpful hint for people posting links - it helps if you work with more than one browser window open, so you cn be viewing more than one page at a time and copying from one to the other. Most browsers allow you to open a new browser window by hitting [ctrl-n] (or the Mac equivalent). You can also go to "New" on the file menu of your browser.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 01:49 PM

Teresa came up with a novel, easy way to post HTML-formatted messages in the forum. She types and formats her messages in Rich Text Format (RTF) on Outlook Express (Outlook works, too - and so may many other e-mail programs or word processors that produce RTF).
Once the document is spell-checked and perfect in every way, right-click on the Outlook document and choose "view source" - a window will open that shows your document with all the HTML tags visible (HTML tags are those thingies enclosed in angle brackets). Highlight and then copy the whole shebang, with all the HTML tags, and then paste it into the "Reply to thread" box. Hit "submit message," and your masterpiece will appear in the Forum. I tried it, and even got a clickable link in the message I tried.
-Joe Offer-

Please note that I have commandeered this thread for use as a reference guide for posting forum messages - you'll find there's a link to it on our "links" page. Feel free to post practice messages or HTML information in this thread, but be forewarned that I will delete or edit anything posted in this thread that doesn't serve the purpose of providing a permanent guide for message posting.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 06:16 PM

Have a problem with ABCs. When trying to do the code to indicate a dotted note & a little one next to it, HTML thought it was an unrecognised tag. These <<< with any of the ones going the other way afterwards wouldn't work. Solved that one by altering the default note length, lengthening the note and adjusting the tempo, but is there another way? Jo

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 06:30 PM

Well, Jo, you can do it the hard way and display angle brackets by using the ampersand display codes which begin with an ampersand and end with a semicolon.
The left angle bracket < is typed like this: &lt;
The right angle bracket > is typed like this: &gt;

And, in case you wondered, the ampersand & is typed like this: &amp;
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 06:44 PM

Gosh that was quick. Silly me, should have worked that out (instead of shouting at the computer!). I've used that method for accents before. Another question - why do some people's apostrophes appear as Æ dipthongs? (ha! did it! I hope)
Jo

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 06:56 PM

Hi, Jo - the ’ diphthongs came from those fancy curly apostrophes and quotation marks - the ones that curl in toward the quotation, instead of going straight up and down. When the newest iteration of the 'Cat came online a couple of weeks ago, a lot of fancy characters people had entered were changed to something else. Unfortunately, it's a mistake that's very difficult to correct, so we'll have to live with mistakes in old messages. Those of us with "edit" buttons are correcting the most glaring problems as we see them. I guess we'd be safest using ampersand codes for all those fancy characters, but that gets to be a big task unless you use Teresa's Outlook idea.
The 'Cat still seems to be having problems digesting curled apostrophes. I get error messages when I paste the curly guys into a message.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 07:31 PM

Thanks Joe! Going to bed now zzzzz....
Jo

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Teresa
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:11 AM

Ok, I'm ready to try my lazy cheater-method.The only thing is--the "view source" option on the context menu (when you right-click on the message in Outlook) is elusive. It's only showed up one time in ten for me, and I think I'm duplicating the same conditions, ... although I'm beginning to think not. I have formatted text checked in the format menu this time, which is something I've never done before, so I'll inflict some of my bad impromptu lyrics on y'all. Hahahaha! Here goes. ... (Oh, by the way, "view source" was elusive in this particular case, too) Ahem!

Got them formattin' blues When I'm postin' lyrics to a thread. Got them formattin' blues When I'm postin' to a thread. Dunno what else to say; Better quit while I'm ahead.

Yikes! Teresa

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:19 AM

C'mon, Teresa! I have faith in you. After all, it was you that gave me the Outlook idea in the first place. You do have to have the "Rich Text" option clicked on the formatting menu, but I don't think "view source" will turn up unless you have the text set for RTF. The text that you paste into the Mudcat box must have the HTML tags visible. Go for it! If you post your practice stuff here, I'll delete them in a day or two.
Take a look at what I did in the Welcome to Mudcat (click) thread - I used your Outlook idea there, and it worked really well (well...I copied a bit of Max's work from the "create thread" page).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Teresa
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 02:30 AM

Hmmm. I used the arrow keys with my speech and screen-reader, and each line scanned right when I checked. ...That was before I hit the submit button. I notice, too, that with others' posted lyrics my screen-reader puts more than one line of verse on the same relative window line. In any case, I have not a clue as to how it looks. I'll try to find that pesky source-code menu choice again. Ok, back to the drawing board, or punching bag, depending on what mood I'm in. Thanks for commandeering this thread, Joe. Teresa

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 04:14 AM

Yeah, I was wondering what kind of limitations your fancy gadgetry had, Teresa. Sounds like it doesn't read HTML tags to you, eh? I was wondering if you got an audible or Braille output - sounds like it's audible, I guess. A sight-impaired woman in our office had equipment that would magnify a word so it was large enough to cover an entire monitor screen. It was awfully tedious for her to read some stuff, but she got her work done quite well. Sounds like your equipment is much more sophisticated than anything I've seen - but maybe not sophisticated enough to do HTML.
Don't worry about it - there's always somebody like me around with an "edit" button to fix formatting. Still and all, it's an interesting challenge to figure out how you can post HTML-formatted messages. There's gotta be a way.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Teresa
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 04:52 AM

Oh, yeah--when I had the source document open earlier, I could read the HTML. I can read it if I set the punctuation on my speech to all. No problem with that. Now the chalenge is to find that blanking menu choice for "view source" again. I have rich-text checked. Still can't find it. Think I'll sleep on it. Teresa

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Teresa
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 01:47 PM

O maligned computer feature,

Lurking like the shyest creature,

If you show your awesome force,

I'll be glad to view the source.

ÿ

Teresa

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 01:52 PM

Hurray! I knew you'd figure it out, Teresa. You may want to use a little larger font. I think the default on Outlook is 10, and 12 looks better here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 01:56 PM

One problem with the Outlook, though, Teresa - It puts way too much HTML into the document. I looked at the source for your message, and it's all full of HTML tags - a full set of tags for every line, when one set of tags would do for the whole message (except for the line breaks). I wonder if there's a cleaner solution.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 05:37 PM

When I posted all those millions of lyrics to the Black Country thread (oh all right, 9) I copped out and used a HTML editor program with a preview button.... wrote the stuff myself but at least it looks like what it looks like when it eventually appears. Or write in Notepad or something, save as HTM and open it up with the browser to see if it's OK....copy and paste....Am I stating the obvious?
Jo

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 09:34 PM

Hi, Jo - I checked the source on the songs you posted, and it looks nice and clean. It didn't have a lot of extra HTML that you didn't need - that's the problem Teresa has with Outlook - too much extra garbage.
Impressive bit of typing you did there.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 08:05 PM

Thanks, Joe! For those who need some help with HTML code there is a downloadable FREE program herewhich is unfussy, no bells and whistles but a good nudge in the right direction.
Jo