HTML Stuff

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 06:43 PM

This thread is quite old, and contains several minor "errors" that resulted from our limited experience with HTM back in the dim past. It might be preferable to allow this one to fade and become another "historic relic" of the good(?) old days.

It should be noted that on the home page you can click on "FAQ" in the header and get a monitored and updated advice on using HTML. While not aggressively maintained, this link should give currently useful advice on HTML usages that work now.

There have been several "HTML Practice Threads" in the past, where embarrassing or obviously obsolete/defective "advices" were periodically "expunged." The only one remaining (that came up quickly with a superficial search) is named "HTML Practice Thread." The beginnings of this thread are only a little more recent than here, but the last 65 or so posts are 2012 or later, and possibly give more current advice. Only two posts in this thread (three with this one) are less than a couple of years obsolete.

From Offsite (global link):
HTML Practice Thread (http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=12759&messages=185)

From here (local link):
HTML Practice Thread (/thread.cfm?threadid=12759&messages=185)

Since the practice thread currently shows 185 posts, you might want to use:
HTML Practice Thread - first 50 posts
or HTML Practice Thread last 50 posts, recent first

Since the time when some of the earlier threads were needed, mudcat – and most other sites – have "improved(?)" their style sheets and interpreters to accommodate most significant variations in browsers and handling of "slightly deviant" HTML codes.

The "Preview" feature at mudcat makes it mostly redundant to actually post "experiments" that don't work as expected, since it will show you what your post would look like in your browser IF YOU ACTUALLY POSTED IT. If you post it, you'll still see only what it looks like in your browser; and others who use a different browser, and often a different OS, still may see something different than what you see.

An advantage of doing your experiments in a "Practice Thread" is that a few years hence your most boneheaded blunders may disappear – as quite a few of mine have done.

Trying out something new (to you, and sometimes to most of us) can help you to have a better feel for how HTML works. The next step, figuring out what you should do to contribute to mudcat sometimes is a little more difficult, since not everything you can do is always helpful.

John

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 01:28 PM

I often use paging to view 'moderately' long threads...maybe 100-250...especially if the thread has been refreshed and I know I only want part 3-4. Then, if the post # is something like 104, I use d for descending to load the most recent post on top...which lets me see quickly if I want to bother.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 01:13 PM

When you want to call someone's attention to another message in the same thread, a good way to do it is to construct a link like this:

<a href=#0000000>Click here</a>

Where "0000000" is the message number of the message you want them to see.

This kind of link executes faster because it doesn't make your browser reload the whole thread from Mudcat's server. That's unnecessary because the whole thread should already be in your computer's memory, so the browser repositions itself instantly to display the correct message.

For example, this link takes you to a message up above called "A Lesson on Line Breaks."

I constructed that link like this: <a href=#82435>this link</a>

This kind of link doesn't work—it doesn't go anywhere—if the required message is not in the thread you're currently looking at (or if you're looking at only a 50-message page of a very long thread, and the target message is in a different page.)

(Does anyone still use paging—I mean, other than people who post to those absurdly long BS threads? I assume paging was set up to help people with very slow internet connections. Does anyone still have a connection so slow that they are forced to use paging, even on music threads?)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:30 PM

Hmmm. I know of ALT being used as a substitute for graphics in a link, but not alternate words being used as a substitute for words. Why would you want to do this?

example:

<a href="/threads.cfm"><img src=/graphics/!mudcat.gif alt="Blicky Words"></a>

results:

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 02:32 PM

arg. I'm trying, to make my blog more accessible to the visually impaired, to insert alt texts into my url (Which can be read by automatic screenreaders when pictures cannot). According to every instruction that I've read online, the code should follow this format:

< a href="URL.Addressh.ere" alt="text" > Blicky Words

... except without the spaces.

I try that, and hover my cursor over the link; the Link works fine, but I can never get the alt text to appear. What am I doing wrong?

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 09:31 AM

Que ?

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 12:59 PM

Hi, Taconicus-
We've tried to make the Mudcat HTML Guide PermaThread into a pretty good, basic guide to HTML. As the HTML Guide says, there are several HTML Practice threads where you can practice HTML to your heart's content. We'll clean out the garbage from those threads every once in a while, when we think of it.
You can practice HTML in any thread - but be aware that we reserve the right to delete anything that looks like a practice HTML message.
You can also practice HTML in any thread by using the "preview" function when you post a message with HTML in it.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 12:17 PM

..and if I had put the "G" in, it would look like this:


This ^cis a sample ^Amlyric,

               

And^c here is the ^G next verse...

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 12:13 PM

To easily show the HTML code, use the following little program.

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/shtmlc.html

To easily put chords into lyrics, use the 'sup' code:

               
This ^cis a sample ^Amlyric,
               
And^c here is the ^next verse...


which looks like this:(using the shtmlc program)


This ^cis a sample ^Amlyric,

               

And^c here is the ^next verse...

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 11:50 AM

Hmmm, that didn't work, but this will

&_L_T_;   &_G_T_; without the _ separators to give -

<   >

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 11:47 AM

%gt; %lt;

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Taconicus
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 10:59 AM

If this is the correct place to post test messages, please put a link to it (as such) in a prominent place in "Help" or FAQ (if there is one already, I missed it.)

Assuming it is, the following is a test message, to see if I can use HTML and a monospaced font like Courier to post chords with lyrics.

     C           Am
  This is a sample lyric,
  C              G
  And here is the next verse...

I did a preview and it looks like this works, but I can't show how I did it because I don't know how to type HTML code without its being interpreted as a command (instead of being able to see it). Basically, I used the PRE command.

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Amos
Date: 20 May 09 - 04:38 PM

This is header 6

This is header 5

This is header 4

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:22 AM

Hi, Rowan -

Yeah, I finally did get it to work - but now that I have a start, I want to know MORE, MORE, MORE!!!

What else can I do with buttons, and how?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Rowan
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:12 AM

It worked on my Mac, Joe.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:05 AM

OK, so I want to get fancy and use the HTML <button> tag. I can do this, but I can't get it to work. I want to use it instead of a clickable link, but to do the same thing as a clickable link.

Here's what I want the button to link to:
http://www.wellspringwomen.org

And I want the label on the button to say Surprise!!!

How do I do that? It must be simple.

-Joe-

Surprise!!!

<button onclick="window.location='http://www.wellspringwomen.org'">Surprise!!!</button>

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: topical tom
Date: 17 May 08 - 04:25 PM

This should be emphasized

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: chrisgl
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:26 PM

Well done for cracking it yourself - by *far* the best way!

Me, I'm too new to know if there's templates around - I'd guess not tho'

I use a Windows clipboard extender program called Clipmate that allows on to save handy bits of code, I'd save the HTML code snippets into it if I was going to use them regularly.

chris :-)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:07 PM

Thanks---Yes!! Actually I had figured it out---but I thank you. I assume that if one does this often there are templates that can be used so one does not have to constantly type in all those commands---thankfully I learned touch typing as a kid.

BH

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: chrisgl
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 06:04 PM

You _almost_ got it right :)

You have to tell the browser you want to make the FONT a particular colour. You just told it make COLOUR.

The correct syntax is:
<font color="red">This is in red</font>

which displays:
This is in red

Note the AMERICAN spelling of colour for the tag!!


Does that help?

chris :-)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 05:58 PM

just one last try
BH

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 05:48 PM

PErhaps somoeone can tell me how one gets color---I realized that I wrote a command for bold and not italic.

BH

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 05:47 PM

this should be italic and this should be red

the first post did not seem to work

BH

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 05:45 PM

just trying to see if i inderstand how this works
Bill H

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Jul 06 - 10:47 AM

Mr Happy

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Mr Happy
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 10:44 AM

Mr Happy

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Mark Clark
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 08:57 PM

This thread has been continued at HTML Stuff II

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:06 AM

Michael, if you've been to the site and your computer has a record of it (in history files) the link will show you've been there. It doesn't matter if it was from this thread or somewhere else.

Marion, I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but if you want to use blank spaces to line things up, try using:
<pre> - (Type text here, but still use line breaks) - </pre>

Part of the table above could look like:

  PRIZE IS IN CUP 1 (1/3) 
  -----------------
  Choose 1(1/3), lift 2(1/2), change to 3(1/2): P=1/36,B
  Choose 1(1/3), lift 3(1/2), change to 2(1/2): P=1/36,B
  Choose 2(1/3), lift 3(1),   change to 1(1/2): P=1/18,A
  Choose 3(1/3), lift 2(1),   change to 1(1/2): P=1/18,A
  

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: MudGuard
Date: 20 May 00 - 06:10 PM

Jon, here I am.
Which fonts are installed depends on the kind of machine.
On Windows, I think you always get Times New Roman, Arial and Courier (NOT Courier New).
On Apples, Unix-Derivates and other machines I do not know.

Usually there are more fonts installed than the 3 mentioned above, but these three are guaranteed on a Win95, Win98, WinNT and Win2000 installation.

I usually try to avoid using the <font face=...> as people have their most-loved font as their default font. And if there is no specific reason to change it, I do not do it.
Sometimes you need an unproportional font, then I use the <tt> tag to tell the browser to use its default unproportional font, not a specific one.

If you want to use the <font face=...>, you should always give at least two fonts (comma separated), where the last one should be one of the 3 mentioned above. The browser will use the first one given which it can find on the system.

If you work with CSS style sheets, you can set the font-family to one of its default values (serif, sans-serif, cursive, fantasy und monospace) for which each browser should have a font (but you don't know which one a specific browser will use, e.g. it could use Courier, Courier New or some other unproportional font for monospace).
Of course you can also use a font name like Courier New with style sheets, but then you will once again have the same problem if the font is not installed on a user's machine.

So Joe, I would suggest to use a special color (combined with bold or a headline tag (h1,... h6)) for the Mudcat Classic Threads or as Jon suggests an image file.

MudGuard (who goes to bed now)

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 May 00 - 04:14 PM

Joe, I have no idea what font's are common to most computers but I would think that for the type of rint you are looking at, you are looking at a font that wouldn't be readily substituted by another similar looking font (I'm assuming these browsers do attempt font substitutions - Mudguard - where are you?) if it was not on a particular computer.

I am a believer in simplicity on these matters and would I probably just stick with using the standard HTML codes such as bold for effects.

I suppose another alternative would be to ask Max if he could knock up a .gif. I know linking to grahics is not allowed in the threads but this is a one off use in a one special purose thread and the presence of 1 extra small graphic would have no real impact on the download time of the thread.

Jon

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 00 - 02:02 PM

I was wondering what fonts I can use in HTML documents. I know if I use the command <font face=arial< that the font will be Arial until I close it off with </font>. I also know that the font will be displayed the way I want it only if that particular font is installed on the receiving person's computer.
So, my question is, what fonts are common on most computers, since those are the fonts I would want to use. My specific problem is that I want to create a suitable title for Mudcat Classic Threads in the FAQ. I'd love to be able to emulate the greenish "Mudcat Cafe" logo, but I don't think that's in a common font (Max has the logo as a gif)
Any suggestions for fonts I can use?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Cut-Paste-Copy & Keyboard Shortcuts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 00 - 06:22 PM

Assuming you are using Windows 95 or 98 and Netscape or Microsoft Internet Explorer, here's what you do:

• highlight the section you want to copy - put your mouse cursor at the beginning of the section, and click and hold the left mouse button. Then, holding the button, move the cursor to the end of the section, and release your mouse button. All the text you've selected should have changed color, usually to blue.
• Next, copy the test - move your mouse cursor so it's ove the highlighted area, and click and hold your right mouse button. A menu will pop up, and you should select "copy" from the menu. The menu will disappear, and the information will be copied into your computer's memory (clipboard), and stay there until you copy something else.
• Finally, paste the information wherever you want to put it - into a Mudcat message box, a word processing document, or an e-mail message you're writing. To paste, move your mouse cursor to the place where you want to put the information. then, click on your right mouse button again and select "paste" from the menu. That should do the trick for you.

I often like to use keyboard shortcuts instead of using my mouse to find things from menus. Here are some handy shortcuts:

• CTRL-C - Copy
• CTRL-V - Paste
• CTRL-X - Cut
• CTRL-S - Save
• CTRL-N - Open New Browser Window
• CTRL-Z - Undo whatever you did last

Hope that helps.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 03:32 AM

That's a great example of guitar chords, Mark - but posting of embedded objects like sounds and images is prohibited here because it slows down thread loading too much. Better to provide a link to the Online Guitar Dictionary, like you did in another thread. Nice try, though.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 01:30 AM

Would this be a good way to share chord patterns in threads? Maybe there is a full library on the Web somewhere. If not, I have Adobe's Seville font for use with Finale.

(click)

It would sure be easier than using prose to describe the details of chord construction.

Thanks,

- Mark

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 08:35 PM

Well, Guest, you got one outa three. <small> works, but the other commands should be <big> and <b> - be sure to close the commands when you're done with them, like this: </small> (which you did properly).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 08:25 PM

Is this small?

Is this large?

Is this bold

Subject: How to put line breaks in Word
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 08:06 PM

Here's how to put line breaks in lyrics you type up in Microsoft Word. The process should be much the same in other word processors.

• Type the lyrics up and edit and spell-check and save them.
  
• Then, go to the "edit" menu at the top of your page, and choose "replace."
  
• Under "replace" you'll find a "special" designation for special characters. Choose "paragraph mark" and put that in the "find" box.
  
• Then, in the "replace with" box, put "paragraph mark" and <br> (a line break tag)
  
• Then choose "replace all."

This varies from one version of Word to another, but it's more-or-less the same in the various versions.

You want to replace the paragraph mark with another one PLUS the line break. Otherwise, you lose all your paragraph marks and what you see on your screen is hard to read, and hard to work with.

Remember, when you are posting lyrics, you want to have <br> line breaks in each and every line, including the blank lines between stanzas and in the paragraphs for any comments you might want to make along with the lyrics. Please do NOT use <p> paragraph marks, because paragraph marks often don't work correctly when you copy-and-paste lyrics from the Forum into a word processor.

When all the line breaks are just how you want them, highlight the whole thing in your word processor and copy it ( [CTRL-C] is the keyboard shortcut for copying) then paste [CTRL-V] it into the message box at Mudcat, and then hit the grey "submit message" button.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 00 - 02:36 AM

Yepp-er, Mr. Joe, you are saying that this makes the letter spacing work like old fashioned typewriter spacing, yes?

Si, señora.
-Josè-

Subject: Posting Chords
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Mar 00 - 02:32 AM

Here's another little tidbit I prepared in answer to somebody's question:

Posting Chords

Anything you type after the preformat <pre> command turns out in monospaced type, so each letter or space takes up one full space - which means the alignment of one letter over another looks the same on Mudcat as it does in the message posting box. You still have to put in <br> line breaks after every line, however. When you get to the end of the entire passage that has chords, go back to normal typeface with the </pre> command. Normal type takes more space for the letter "m" than it does for the letter "i" - so it's well-nigh impossible to align normal type and keep the chord letters over the right words. The preformat command handles that quite well. Make sense?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 01:32 AM

Copied from a message I posted in the "Help" forum, in answer to a question about how to copy from an HTML editor and paste into a Mudcat message
In most HTML editors, there is an option in the menus on the top that allows you to "view source." Sometimes, you have to right-click on the page itself, and a menu will come up with a "view source" option. What comes up is a page with all the HTML tags visible (the tags are in those angle brackets that <look like this>). You highlight and copy that code with all the tags showing, and paste that into the Mudcat message reply box.
You have to be a bit careful with that, though - many HTML editors produce a lot of extra tags that aren't necessary, like setting <font> tags at the beginning and end of each line instead of the beginning and end of the whole passage that needs that font - all those extra tags slow down the loading of a Mudcat page considerably. they also often start out with <html> and <body> and <meta> and other tags that can mess up an entire thread.

My rule of thumb is: if you don't know what an HTML tag is going to do, it's best not to use it in a Mudcat message.

The best advice for HTML for use at Mudcat is in this thread (click). I stay away from HTML editors most of the time, and type my Mudcat stuff and even design Web pages in a plain old word processor. Takes a little more learning but it works a whole lot better, and you can do a lot with just a little knowledge. Just use the copy/paste and "replace" functions to take care of the repetitive tasks.
While I don't use an HTML editor much, I do cheat and copy the source of interesting effects I find on various Web pages. I save those little tricks in a text file, and paste 'em in when I need 'em.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 08:05 AM

If you use word 97 or above format everything as you want it in word, SAVE: as HTML, VIEW: html source, COPY: to clipboard then PASTE: into message box (here)

LIKE THIS

Then you do not have to learn any but the most basic HTML codes such as line breaks

regards Ted

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Dec 99 - 02:12 PM

the <pre> and </pre> tag are used to enclose a part of the html source which has to keep its original line breaks, spaces...
MudGuard

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Dec 99 - 12:04 PM

So having put /PRE in brackets before this, all the formatting should pick up? "He asked no one in particular - just testing the system...."
Larry

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: thosp
Date: 28 Oct 99 - 10:58 PM

thanks Joe Offer---- i did the control c -- v ---- from your post --worked just fine ---- i'm going to try it from other sites to here and see what happens----- thanks again !!! thosp

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: thosp
Date: 28 Oct 99 - 10:55 PM

the text and then copy by using this key combination: CTRL-C (control and C at the same time. Then move your cursor to the 'Cat, and paste by doing CTRL-V. Does that work?

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 04:12 AM

Thosp, I've noticed that copy and paste don't always work from the menus of browsers. Try highlighting the text and then copy by using this key combination: CTRL-C (control and C at the same time. Then move your cursor to the 'Cat, and paste by doing CTRL-V. Does that work?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Matthew B.
Date: 27 Sep 99 - 12:20 PM

Can I make this blink?

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: thosp
Date: 27 Sep 99 - 02:26 AM

nope i copied and put the cursor -- but it won't paste--- let me try again--- nope it just doesn't work --- i'm on AOL --- i highlight text go to edit hit copy --go to a thread -- hit the cursor in the reply box--go to edit hit paste --nothing happens --- but i can cut and paste elsewhere --- go figure ! ----------
thosp

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Sep 99 - 02:10 AM

Hmmm. Dunno what your problem might be, thosp. You highlight the text, copy it, move your cursor into the Mudcat reply box, and paste it. HOWEVER, you have to add the line breaks at the end of each line of poetry or song lyrics. Otherwise, the 'Cat is set up to word-wrap stuff, and it comes out looking like a big blob of prose.
If you're copying from a Website that already has the line breaks and HTML formatting in, you can right-click on that page and choose "view source," and then copy the HTML-formatted stuff and paste it into the 'Cat. If you're still having problems, let me know and I'll talk you through it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: HTML Stuff
From: thosp
Date: 27 Sep 99 - 01:30 AM

hi Joe,
i just got back from your home page and now i think that on ocassion i should call you Lighthouse Joe----reguarding things like text files --- those are things i have to learn about --and databases and word processers etc. --- btw--- the other day i tried to cut and paste (a poem from an e-mail into the poem swap thread and it didn't work-- i tried it a couple of times --- do you have any idea why?
thanks thos