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Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal

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GUEST,Bernard 21 Apr 02 - 03:21 PM
Emma B 21 Apr 02 - 05:06 PM
Malcolm Douglas 21 Apr 02 - 05:36 PM
Emma B 21 Apr 02 - 06:14 PM
Sorcha 21 Apr 02 - 06:20 PM
Gareth 21 Apr 02 - 06:37 PM
Sorcha 21 Apr 02 - 06:39 PM
8_Pints 21 Apr 02 - 07:01 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Apr 02 - 07:10 PM
Emma B 21 Apr 02 - 07:14 PM
Snuffy 21 Apr 02 - 07:19 PM
8_Pints 21 Apr 02 - 09:02 PM
8_Pints 21 Apr 02 - 09:28 PM
Hrothgar 22 Apr 02 - 02:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Apr 02 - 01:13 PM
Snuffy 22 Apr 02 - 06:58 PM
Gareth 22 Apr 02 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,Black Jake of Norwich, 14th June 2012. 14 Jun 12 - 10:24 AM
Ian Hendrie 15 Jun 12 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,GUEST Black Jake Once of Norwich, 19th June 19 Jun 12 - 05:54 AM
Richard from Liverpool 19 Jun 12 - 06:35 AM
GUEST,Ian Hendrie, adrift on the waterways 19 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Black Jake (Once) of Norwich. 08 Jul 12 - 06:47 AM
Jenny S 08 Jul 12 - 07:59 AM
Mr Happy 09 Jul 12 - 06:23 AM
Jenny S 09 Jul 12 - 02:40 PM
ChrisJBrady 09 Jul 12 - 02:52 PM
Ian Hendrie 14 Jul 12 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,CJB 29 Jul 16 - 03:57 AM
Jim Dixon 20 Jan 18 - 09:32 AM
Steve Gardham 20 Jan 18 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Ian Hendrie 21 Jan 18 - 08:58 AM
FreddyHeadey 22 Jan 18 - 06:13 PM
FreddyHeadey 22 Jan 18 - 06:44 PM
Ian Hendrie 24 Jan 18 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Ian Smith 12 Mar 18 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,Ian Hendrie 12 Mar 18 - 04:20 PM
GUEST,CJB 12 Mar 18 - 10:14 PM
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Subject: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Bernard
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 03:21 PM

Can anyone supply the Lyrics for this song taken from the Album by John Kirkpatrick, John Raven and others called "The Bold Navigators".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 05:06 PM

I have the lyrics and tune to 'The Navies' or 'The Bold Navigators' The chorus is :- For that's the rule of the bold navigator, For we are jovial banksmen all, First line :- On Monday morning we make it a rule, Is this the one? It includes a reference to the 'Tommy Shop' The text is from a broadside in Manchester Library melody adapted from the traditional by Jon Raven. If so - will forward as it's rather long


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 05:36 PM

The Bold Navigators: The Story of England's Canals in Song has been re-issued on CD, and is available from Fellside Records (FTSR4), or from Camsco if you're in the USA.

Lyric and tune for The Bold Navigators (The Navvies) are in the DT, but The Manchester Ship Canal isn't; it's a quite different song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 06:14 PM

The lyrics to 'The Manchester Ship Canal' are also in Victoria's Inferno ISBN 0 950 3722 3 4 copyright Jon Raven published by Broadside 1978. First lines :- I sing a theme deserving praise, A theme of great renown, sir.


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Subject: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 06:20 PM

That did it, Mo. Here they are:


The Manchester Ship Canal

I sing a theme deserving praise, a theme of great renown, sir,
The Ship Canal in Manchester, that rich and trading town, sir
I mean to say, it once was rich, ere these bad times came on. sir,
But good times will come back, you know - when these bad times are gone sir.

In 1825, when we were speculating all, sir,
We wise folks club'd together and we made this Ship Canal, sir,
I should have said we meant to do so, for we'd schemes laid down, sir,
That would have made this Manchester a first rate seaport town, sir.

Instead of lazy Old Quay flats, that crawls three miles an hour, sir,
We'd fine three-masted steam-ships, some of ninety horse's power, sir;
That is, had it been made we would, and, Lord how fine 'twould be, sir!
When all beyond St. Peter's Church, was open to the sea, sir.

Success, then, unto Manchester, and joking all aside, sir,
Her trade will flourish as before, and be her country's pride, sir,
That is to say, if speculation can but be kept down, sir,
And sure we've had enough of that - at least within this town, sir.

Poetry was also used to criticise local events. During the 1850s and 1860s the Bradford Canal had become extremely polluted and was regarded as a major health hazard. There had been several epidemics in the area for which the canal had been blamed. On 29th June 1865 the Bradford Observer published the following poem. As a result of such propaganda, the canal was closed until its water supply was improved. It had originally been supplied from the Bradford Beck which had become polluted by the numerous textile works along its banks. The poem shows the increasing awareness of environmental and health problems in the late nineteenth century.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Gareth
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 06:37 PM

Sorcha -

The Syntax to that seems very similar to that of the "Vicar of Bray", and vocalising the tune fits !

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 06:39 PM

That I wouldn't know, Gareth. Guess we'll have to wait for Bernard to come back to check the tune.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 07:01 PM

No its not the same tune.

I have an LP recording of it feature Gary & Vera Aspey.

They do a fine close harmony version of it.

Bob vG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 07:10 PM

The three that I know are

1. "The Manchester Canal" (to the tune of the Calibah). 1st verse finishes

No fairer ship e'er left the slip from this port to Natal
Than the boats that plough the waters of the Manchester Canal

I have the words for it somewhere...

2 is called, I think, 'Bring the sea to Manchester'. I'ts on an Album by Brian Peters, Chorus is

We've got the money, we've got the men
We'll soon have the ships and we'll show 'em then
That where there's a will there's a way as you must know
To bring the sea to Manchester and Yo-heave-ho!

Final one was written by Ian Woods and added to by Gary Aspey. I'm not sure what it's called but it starts

My name is Geordie Thompson, I'm a man of high reknown
Known all along the cut and in the nearby town.

Chorus is

Dig boys, load boys, and haul away
Digging up the cut, my lads, of Manchester way.

Dunno if any of them help in this quest but it may add to your repotoire of Manchester Canal Songs;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 07:14 PM

The version in Victoria's Inferno has three extra verses:- one that stresses the age old rivalry between Liverpool and Manchester Alas! too for poor Liverpool, She'd surely go to pot sir, For want of trade, her folks would starve,Her Custom House would rot, sir I'm wrong, they'd not exactly starve, Or want,for it is true, sir They might come down to Manchester; We'd find them work to do, sir, Oh well some things never change


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 07:19 PM

DTG, no need to post the words: your first one is already in the DT as "The Manchester Canal", with the Calabar as the tune. But in Harry Boardman's book Folk Songs and Ballads of Lancashirehe uses a version of "Brighton Camp/Girl I Left Behind Me" as the tune.

WassaiL! V


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 09:02 PM

My copy of the LP has the footnote:

All the songs - together with their sources and a full bibliography - can be found in a book, 'Canal Songs', by Jon Raven, obtainable from 68 Limes Road, Tettenhall, Wolverhampton. (England)

The words to 'The Manchester Canal' in the DT lead me to think its not the same song requested by Bernard, but is in fact the one identified by Sorcha.

As Little Mo pointed out there should be more verses including the third verse below:

Near Oxford Road the dry dock is to cork and to careen, sir, A chief West India dock is where the pond at Ardwick Green, sir, That is to say, they might have been had these plans been done, sir, And vessels might have anchored there, a full 500 tons, sir,

Chorus:

Tow, Row, Row, Talldi-riddy, ralldi-riddy, Tow, Row, Row,.

Bob vG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Apr 02 - 09:28 PM

Verse layout prettified a bit!

Near Oxford Road the dry dock is to cork and to careen, sir,
A chief West India dock is where the pond at Ardwick Green, sir,
That is to say, they might have been had these plans been done, sir,
And vessels might have anchored there, a full 500 tons, sir,

Chorus:

Tow, Row, Row,
Talldi-riddle, ralldi-riddle,
Tow, Row, Row.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 02:03 AM

There's another one, the chorus of which is something like:

Come weavers and winders and millers great and small
Give your support unto the board of the Manchester Canal.

It does sound like modern song, with a traditional tune.

I have it on a tape somewhere if anybody's interested.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 01:13 PM

Cheers Snuffy - save me a search! (I still wonder where I put them though...) Isn't the calabar (Correct sp. I guess) the same tune as the girl I left behind me or have I been under a misapprehension all these years (Again!)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 06:58 PM

I thought it was, DTG, but the Calabar tune in the DT is completely different. It sounds like something Irish I can't remember - and probably is because the two versions in DT (The Calabar and The Cruise of the Calabar) are both Irish, from Sam Henry and the Clancys

WassaiL! V


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Gareth
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 07:02 PM

VICAR OF BRAY

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Black Jake of Norwich, 14th June 2012.
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 10:24 AM

Over the past few years or so, I've noted the comments regarding this song. In the late 1950's I collected a version which is slightly different from the ones mentioned, and for what it's worth 'ere 'tis.

ON THE MANCHESTER SHIP CANAL
When I was young and charmin' and as hansome as can be,
I said goodbye to the mother-in-law, and away I went to sea, brave boys,
On the Manchester Ship Canal.

Chorus:
There was muddy water everywhere, and rum you'll never see,
And I scarcely think we'll ever get a little drink,
'Till we get to Wallasey, brave boys,
On the Manchester Ship Canal.

I shipped on board a fine ship, lads, the dredger Dodgey Sam,
And we soon set sail by Walton Jail, on the way to Birmingham, brave boys,
On the Manchester Ship Canal.

The captain was a chancer, lads, he'd never sailed before.
And he couldn't even tell a belayin-pin from the knob on the shithouse door, brave lads,
On the Manchester Ship Canal.

All day he slept on the Quarter-Deck, all night he slept below,
And he paid his crew a lousy screw, we were glad to see him go, brave boys.
On the Manchester Ship Canal.

Now the quality of the Mersey, boys, it isn't strained at all.
For its full of rats, and old dead cats, and it tastes like parafin oil, brave boys.
The Manchester Ship Canal.
END.

Sorry I can't write music so I can't do the tune for you.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 08:45 AM

Thanks for this song Guest Black Jake. I will add it to my Songs of the Inland Waterways website if that's OK.

If you have any way of recording the song and sending me a copy this would be a valuable addition. Without a tune potential singers who can carry it into the future would be struggling.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,GUEST Black Jake Once of Norwich, 19th June
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:54 AM

In response to Ian Hendrie.

I am a complete technophobe, and don't know how to send you the tune electronically. However, if there is some address I can send to using snail mail, and if you possess such a thing as a cassette-player, I can do you a cassette with me singing the song. Whilst I am no great shakes vocally, you will at least have some idea of the tune as I recall it. The way I sing it is slightly different from the version I've given above.

I would be flatterd to see it on 'Songs of the Inland Waterways' and of course you have my permission. Excuse my mis-spelling of 'paraffin'.

Whilst on the subject, I've discovered another verse among my collected scribblings, plus an alternative final verse which has minor alterations. 'Ere 'tis:

He sailed us around in circles, like a useless drunken fart,
'Till we ran aground on an old dead horse, not marked up on the chart,
On the Manchester Ship Canal.

Now the quality of the Mersey, it isn't strained one bit,
For it's full of rats, dead dogs and cats, and multitudes of -
Muddy water everwhere, and rum you'll never see,
And I scarcely think I'll get another drink.
'Till we get to Wallasey.
END.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 06:35 AM

Really really interesting to see another version of this song! I sing a version 'reconstructed from childhood memories' by Stan Kelly

It's similar in terms of the words used, and from talking to Stan Kelly he said to use the tune of The Erie Canal (from which he borrowed some of the words to complete the fragmentary memories he had of it). Is your tune anything like that, or something different? Either way, would love to hear you sing it. (I work not far from Norwich, are there any folk clubs or anything you go to around in East Anglia where I could hear you sing it?)

Here's me singing the Stan Kelly version on my Liverpool folk song a week blog.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie, adrift on the waterways
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM

Hi Black Jake,
I'm away on holiday at the moment with limited internet access. If you drop me am e-mail to the address on the introduction page on my website I'll be able to access it in a few weeks time when I return home.
I'll be in touch a few weeks down the line.
Alternatively, you can register with Mudcat and then send me a message through it.
Regards,
Ian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Black Jake (Once) of Norwich.
Date: 08 Jul 12 - 06:47 AM

To Richard from Liverpool, Ian Hendry and others.

Many thanks for your comments re this song. NB my technophobia. When I get to some electricity and 13 year old grandson, I may be able to reply. Unfortunately rarely in Nowich these days.

Good to hear of Stan Kelly. I may well have heard him sing the song in London where I would always see him if I could. Is he still alive? He must be even older than me.

If I knew how to register with Mudcat, I would! It seems an excellent organisation.

Re the tune. Possibly very close to 'The Erie Canal'. Can't quite remember how that goes, but have a vague recollection.

Best wishes to all,
Black Jake


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Jenny S
Date: 08 Jul 12 - 07:59 AM

The Gary & Very version has the following lines:

Your name - the Mary, Captain Hill
Your cargo - freight is sir
Where from - Dublin
Whither bound - the port of Manchester

Come weavers and winders and tanners great and small
Give your support unto the board of the Manchester Canal


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 06:23 AM

Don't you mean Gara & Very?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Jenny S
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 02:40 PM

You got it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 02:52 PM

There was also a Radio Ballad-type documentary called "They Brought The Sea To Manchester." I have it on reel-reel tape if I can find it. I think it features some songs too. In January 1894 Queen Victoria declared the canal open without leaving her carriage which was a par for the course for her. Apparently when the lock paddles were opened the pressure of the water was so great several villages / towns got well flooded as the canal filled up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Ship_Canal


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 14 Jul 12 - 02:19 PM

Hi Chris,
I would certainly be interested in hearing your recording of 'They Brought the Sea to Manchester' if you can find the tape.
I am also seeking a recording of another radio programme about the Manchester Ship Canal. It was called 'Tales from the Towpath', I believe, and there are a few details about it at the bottom of the following web-page : http://www.waterwaysongs.co.uk/36_miles.htm.
If anyone has a recording of this please contact me.
Many thanks,
Ian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 03:57 AM

It is now here:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/5xvo5a1di51r2/Manchester_Ship_Canal_75th


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE MANCHESTER SHIP CANAL (ca. 1825)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 09:32 AM

Here's a longer version of the song posted by Sorcha above, on 21-April-2002, copied along with notes:

From The Palatine Note-Book, Volume 2 (Manchester: J. E. Cornish, 1 December, 1882), page 272:

The Manchester Ship Canal.—As this project is once more brought before public notice, and apparently with more spirit for its accomplishment than in former days, I enclose the copy of an old song on the subject that I heard at the theatre in Manchester, now some sixty years ago. Its reproduction may interest your readers.


THE MANCHESTER SHIP CANAL.
Sung by Mr. Hammond at the Theatre Royal, Manchester, from a broadside printed by J. Pigot and Son, 16, Fountain-street.

1. I sing a theme deserving praise, a theme of great renown, sir:
The Ship Canal in Manchester, that rich and trading town, sir.
I mean to say, it once was rich, ere these bad times came on, sir;
But good times will come back, you know, when these bad times are gone, sir.

Bow-wow-wow.

2. In eighteen twenty-five, when we were speculating all, sir,
We wise folks club'd together, and we made this Ship Canal, sir.
I should have said we meant to do so, for we'd schemes laid down, sir,
That would have made this Manchester a first-rate seaport town, sir.

Bow, &c

3. Near Oxford Road the dry dock is, to caulk and to careen, sir.
Our chief West India dock is where the pond was at Ardwick Green, sir;
That is to say, they might have been there, had these plans been done, sir,
And vessels might have anchored there of full five hundred tons, sir.

Bow, &c

4. Instead of lazy Old Quay flats, that crawl three miles an hour, sir,
We'd fine three-masted steamships, some of ninety horses power, sir;
That is, had it been made we would; and Lord! How fine 'twould be, sir,
When all beyond St. Peter's Church was open to the sea, sir!

Bow, &c

5. At Stretford, Prestwich, Eccles too, no weaver could you see, sir.
His shuttle for a hand-spike chang'd, away to sea went he, sir.
I'm wrong, I mean he would have done so, had it but been made, sir;
For who would starve at weaving who could find a better trade, sir?

Bow, &c.

6. Alas! then, for poor Cannon Street, the hookers in, poor odd fish!
Instead of catching customers must take to catching cod fish.
That is, supposing it was made, may it ne'er be, I wish, sir;
These cotton baits for customers would never do for fish, sir.

Bow, &c

7. Alas! too, for poor Liverpool; she'd surely go to pot, sir.
For want of trade her folks would starve; her Customhouse would rot, sir.
I'm wrong, they don't exactly starve or rot, for it is true, sir,
They might come down to Manchester; we'd find 'em work to do, sir.

Bow, &c.

8. Success then unto Manchester! and joking all aside, sir,
Her trade will flourish as before, and be her country's pride, sir.
That is to say, if speculation can but be kept down, sir;
And sure we've had enough of that, at least within this town, sir.

Bow-wow-wow.

There was another song on the same subject, with the title, "When Manchester's a seaport town, sir," having the refrain after each verse,

It will be true, I'll lay you a crown, sir,
When Manchester's a seaport town, sir.

I have not preserved a copy of this song, but probably some of your readers may have done so, and will be able to supply you with a copy as well as with the name of the author.

William Harrison.
Rock Mount, Isle of Man.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 02:01 PM

'Bow wow wow', was a very common tune, much used in the 18th and early 19th centuries. The song I remember most to the tune is one we sang at school called 'The Drummer and the Cook'.

If you look back up the thread to 21 April 02, 9.28 pm posting there is another piece to the tune with 'tow row row' adapted here from 'bow wow wow'. I seem to remember reading it has been traced back to a song actually about dogs, from Boston Mass.

I must admit 'Vicar of Bray' tune seemed obvious until I saw the 'bow wow wow'.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 08:58 AM

There a several songs with this title.

I'm on the look out for one written by John Gill of Hindle Wakes and recorded on the lp "Hindle Wakes - Live at the Cross Keys".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manch Ship Canal - Hindle Wakes
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 06:13 PM

2018: 27th March: Hindle Wakes

Ian, you might have to put in an advanced request for the song via the organisers but I see the Hindle Wakes are doing a lunchtime gig up the road in Littleborough.

The HW keeps a very low profile on the publicity front don't they!?

http://www.littleboroughcoachhouse.org/lunchtime-concerts-2018


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 06:44 PM

[btw: Hindle Wakes Folk Group (Ian Smith, John Gill and Tom Hindley) on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/musicmeisterful?
- check "uploads' & 'liked']


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 09:29 AM

Thanks for links 'Freddy'. As you say Hindle Wakes are elusive. I have found a John Gill on FarceBook but he seems more into rock and skiffle so I'm doubtful it's the same one. A trip to Littleborough may be on the cards.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Ian Smith
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 06:56 AM

Ian - Hindle Wakes " Live at ..." album is now available on CD with the Ship Canal song on it. We're stll very busy as a band and mentioning Littleborough we are at the Coach House this month on Tuesday 27th March as this month's guests in the Lunchtime concerts programme they run there. Starts 1pm onwards. If you can't make this my email is smiffy47@yahoo.com - message me and I'll be glad to get the album to you or send you a copy of the lyrics. I'll send you this year's gig list for the band as well if you want to catch up with us some other time. Cheers, Ian Smith


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 04:20 PM

Ian - I'm delighted to see your post. I've sent you an e-mail.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Manchester Ship Canal
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 10:14 PM

A long lost documentary about the opening of the Manchester Ship Canal on its 75th anniversary.

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/jf9s66sjz9b5b/They_Brought_The_Sea_To_Manchester


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