Argh! name that tune!

Subject: Argh! name that tune! & Lyr Req.
From: CapriUni
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 12:48 AM

Don't you just hate it (well, love/hate ;-)) when you recognize a traditional tune with new words, but can't for the life of you remember the original words that went with it?

Once again, that has happened to me. I found this on the "Pagan Chants of the Month" page, in the archives, dated April 1997: The Lady's Bransle.

The only information given is that the words are by Hope, the music is traditional (that really narrows the scope, don't it?), and that it was recorded on the Songs for the Old Religion tape.

Can anyone here remind me what the tune was originally?

Thank you!

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: KT
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:18 AM

It's not exactly thesame tune but reminds me of "Sing We Now of Christmas." KT

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: Margaret V
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:36 AM

It's "Nonesuch." Margaret

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: masato sakurai
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:42 AM

It appeared under the title "Nonesuch" in John Playford's [English] Dancing Master (1651, 1652) (Click here and on "Browse Title Index" for the original sheet). For more info on the tune, see The Fiddler's Companion ("Nonesuch"). See also Writing the Lyrics by Glenn Turner and Hope Athearn.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: CapriUni
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:52 PM

Thanks, Guys! I will now play and check out the links. ;-)

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: CapriUni
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 11:58 PM

Well, Masato, I've checked that site on the writing of the lyrics, and I really surprised that The Lady's Bransle was the first set of lyrics set to the tune... I'd been certain that I'd known it as a song before I even knew about Paganism....

Maybe I was remembering the tune from a medly on an album of Celtic music, or maybe, like Kat, I was remembering a similiar sounding song.

Oh well. Anyway, I like it!

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: masato sakurai
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:15 AM

Lyrics have been posted at the thread: Nonesuch lyrics and midi, with some differences and without authorship.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: Margaret V
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:35 AM

Maybe you've heard Jean Ritchie singing "None But One?" I don't know where those lyrics came from, but perhaps Jean herself would tell us. Margaret

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: CapriUni
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 11:21 AM

Masato, those lyrics are very close to the one on the site you posted earlier, where the attribution was 1969, and the author was very clearly named as Hope Athearn, which jibes with the information given on that Pagan Chants of the Month page -- the only thing missing is the last name.

I'm beginning to suspect that these may in fact be the first lyrics recorded for this tune (though perhaps someone sang their own set of lyrics to it back in the 17th century, and never bothered to write them down).

Margaret, I doubt "None but One" was the source of my confusion, since I didn't know the titie of the melody before yesterday, but I did recognize the sound of it, and I didn't know there was such a song sung by Jean Ritchie... I think I probably heard the tune played once, either on a recording or live, and it stuck in my memory.

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: masato sakurai
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:23 PM

CapriUni, possibly those are not the first lyrics. According to Claude M. Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music (Rutgers UP, 1966),

"The commoner tune name ['a la Mode de France'] seems to have been derived from a ballad 'The French Report,' probably written in late 1942 or early 1643 while the Queen was in Holland raising money and troops for the prosecution of the Civil War. It begins 'Me have of late been in England/Vere me have seen much sport,' and each stanza closes with 'a la mode de France.' No broadside copy seems to have survived, but the verses were included in Rump, 1662, I, 27, and reprinted in Loyal Songs, 1731, I, 25. The eight-line stanza in ballad meter fits the tune, but we have only the refrain upon which to make any confident connection between words and music."(pp. 516-517; s.v. "Nonesuch, or À la Mode de France")

"NONESUCH or A LA MODE DE FRANCE" is also the title given in Maud Karpeles and Kenworthy Schofield, eds., A Selection of 100 English Filk Dace Airs (English Folk Dance and Song Society, 1951, p. 14, p. *47; tune only). There're a lot of CDs containing this tune (Click here); I myself some of them.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: CapriUni
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:34 PM

Thanks for the info, Masato! I don't recognize the snippet of lyrics you site above, but that doesn't mean much...

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: MMario
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 12:34 PM

I've heard it (with the words) for twenty years or so; but that only takes us back to the 80's; it was always introduced as "Nonesuch" though with words almost identical to those listed as being written by Hope.

Subject: Lyr Add: A LA MODE DE FRANCE
From: masato sakurai
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 01:24 PM

A LA MODE DE FRANCE

Me have of late been in England,
Vere me have seen much sport,
De raising of de Parliament
Have quite pull'd down de Court,
De King and Queen dey separate,
And rule in ignorance,
Pray judge, ye gentlemen, if dis
Be à la mode de France.

A vise man dere is like a ship
Dat strike upon de shelves,
Dey prison all, behead, and vip
All viser dan demselves;
Dey send out men to fetch deyr king,
Who may come home, perchance:
O fy, fy, fy, it is, be gar,
Not à la mode de France.

Dey raise deyr valiant prentices
To guard deyr cause vith clubs;
Dey turn deyr Bishops out of doors,
And preash demsleves in tubs:
De cobler and de tinker, too,
Dey vill in time advance;
Gar take dem all, it is (mort Dieu)
Not à la mode de France.

Instead of bowing to deyr king,
Dey vex him vith epistles;
Dey furnish all deyr souldiers out
Vith bodkins, spoons, and vhistles;
Dey bring deyr gold and silver in,
De Brownists to advance,
And if dey be cheat of it all,
'Tis à la mode de France.

But if ven all deyr vealth be gone,
Dey turn unto deyr king,
Dey vill all make amends again,
Den merrily ve vill sing,
Vive le Roy, vive le Roy,
Ve'll sing, carouse, and dance,
De English men have done fort bon,
And à la mode de France.

(From: William Chappell, Thw Ballad Literature and Popular Music of the Olden Time, vol. 2 ([1859]; Dover, 1965, p. 445; with music ["Nonesuch"])

~Masato

Subject: RE: Argh! name that tune!
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 10:54 PM

I like the seasonal verse....since we grow produce, strikes a pretty deep chord....