BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin

Subject: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: Troll
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:24 PM

click here

click here

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: Troll
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:37 PM

Must've screwed up the second one. Lets try again.

click here

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:46 PM

Looks about like many photos I've seen when a tornado has hit an area of a town.

Bad, but it doesn't look as bad to me as the Palestinian popagandist have been claiming.

Thanks for posting, Troll.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 01:54 PM

How something looks from the air and how something looks from the inside are two different things.

Even from the air that's darned frightening stuff when you remember that people are trying to stay alive in that mess.

Stephen

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 02:52 PM

DougR, perhaps you could enlighten us then, since it doesn't look so bad to you, as to just what truly devastating looks like, hmmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:15 PM

Well, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki. Hmmmm?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:18 PM

Oh, sorry guest, I forgot to include during WWII, Berlin, London, and more recently here in the United States, The World Trade Center in NYC. Hmmmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:23 PM

Certainly a very devastating use of "Hmmmmmmmmm1", DougR.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:37 PM

Perhaps, Greg, but Guest started it! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:42 PM

I think the pictures you must be seeing in the US press can't be the ones we've got in our papers and on our screens, Doug.

I'm looking at one in today's Guardian that is very much indeed like a shot from Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki. Or Ground Zero. Devastation, with a few scattered houses just about standing, and tiny figures of people wandering around in the wreckage.

It's not on their website as yet, or I'd link to it. It make the blood run cold to look at it.

I was watching a TV interview with some of the rescue people who have at last been allowed in, and who are trying to dig people out of the wreckage without anything in the way of equipment. On was saying the last place he'd seen anything similar was in an earthquake, and this was worse.

Those aerial shots put out by the Israelis - I'm reminded of that song "From a Distance." Get in close and it's a lot messier.

I imagine you could have taken an aerial shot of Jerusalem after a suicide bombing and you wouldn't have seen much to upset anyone. From a distance.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:44 PM

DougR--there's no discussing this one without getting into mud slinging. Those photos are bad enough, and are probably retouched by the propagandist who published them. Israel is following a path of destructive insanity. I'll say I think you're incredibly wrong on this, and leave it at that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:45 PM

That was not a criticism, Doug, that was a genuine compliment. I thought you turned an unfair attck into a very elegant riposte.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:52 PM

PS doesnt mean I agree with you though Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 04:54 PM

By "unfair attack"do you mean the attack on Jenin, Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:04 PM

Here's one that gets a bit closer; and here is another, slightly closer; and here is Buddhist monk in the rubble; maybe it's a pity there aren't a few more Buddhists there on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:16 PM

McGrath: I assumed you realized I was referring to the pictures Troll posted (blue clickies).

I did not mean to imply that the pictures do not portray a tragic event. They do. I just do not think, based on the pictures Troll posted that the evidence supports the Palestian's claims.

As to doctoring pictures, anyone or any news organization, or any propaganda unit of any country could do that. I am assuming that those posted by Troll have not been tampered with. I'm going to check out McGrath's clickies too. What would lean one to believe the ones he posted are more accurate than Troll's?

Greg: I did not take your remark as criticism. As to whether or not you agree with me, it makes no difference to me at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Apr 02 - 08:28 PM

No MTed you wont fool me like that. I was referring to the unfair attack on DougR as you know.The attack on Jenin is something else.And idon't think my opinions on that are very important at the moment. If I felt I could have any influence on things I might express them, but I alas I dont.

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 05:00 AM

Both sets of pictures agree well with each other. Troll's, however, show how large/little the area of total devastation is. The amount of devastation in this area is better visible on Kevin's pictures, but after seeing the aerials they do not at all come as a surprise.

Neither of these sets shows any evidence (positive or negative) for the two conflicting main claims of both sides on what has happened:

(1) that in a big part of the city especially the interior of the houses was vandalised (Palestinian claim)

(2) that all the destruction only resulted from fighting against armed opponents (Israel's claim)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: Troll
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 07:51 AM

I would assume that all the photos shown on this thread have come from the Israeli news services or the IDF since I can't imagine that they would allow a news helicopter or plane to fly over that area right now. I could be wrong, of course, but it seems a reasonable supposition since they have refused entry to the area for journalists.
Or has that changed?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: DougR
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 11:29 AM

Well said, Wolfgang. Good summation.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Pics of the Destruction in Jenin
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 02 - 08:42 PM

can this connect to the jewish terroism