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Where Are OLD Black Gospel Lyrics??

wysiwyg 25 Apr 02 - 10:00 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 25 Apr 02 - 12:40 PM
wysiwyg 25 Apr 02 - 12:50 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 25 Apr 02 - 01:17 PM
wysiwyg 25 Apr 02 - 11:42 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 26 Apr 02 - 07:15 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 26 Apr 02 - 07:16 AM
masato sakurai 26 Apr 02 - 08:13 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Apr 02 - 09:30 PM
wysiwyg 27 Apr 02 - 09:42 PM
wysiwyg 02 Feb 04 - 09:07 AM
GUEST,JTT 03 Feb 04 - 04:03 AM
wysiwyg 03 Feb 04 - 09:46 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 03 Feb 04 - 12:48 PM
Margret RoadKnight 03 Feb 04 - 09:19 PM
Kaleea 04 Feb 04 - 03:14 AM
dick greenhaus 04 Feb 04 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,reggie miles 04 Feb 04 - 11:13 AM
wysiwyg 03 Jun 04 - 09:17 AM
nutty 03 Jun 04 - 11:58 AM
wysiwyg 03 Jun 04 - 12:06 PM
nutty 03 Jun 04 - 12:13 PM
wysiwyg 03 Jun 04 - 12:30 PM
wysiwyg 03 Jun 04 - 12:42 PM
wysiwyg 04 Jun 04 - 11:17 AM
wysiwyg 06 Jun 04 - 12:34 PM
cetmst 06 Jun 04 - 01:39 PM
cetmst 07 Jun 04 - 07:02 AM
wysiwyg 08 Jun 04 - 05:22 PM
Dani 08 Jun 04 - 07:36 PM
wysiwyg 08 Jun 04 - 09:39 PM
GUEST,Kathy 14 May 13 - 04:45 PM
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Subject: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 10:00 AM

Is it just me, or are the old, classic black gospel songs missing from the internet?

What about old songbooks?

(Masato, help! *G*)

Of course when they are based on spirituals I can usually track down at least the base material. And every once in awhile the songs are black-gospel versions of public domain or otherwise findable hymns. Sometimes they are even the same words in old mountain/bluegrass gospel, and I can usually find those too. And once in awhile I can find them in an old Baptist hymnal.

But there is a boatload of stuff not in those sources-- where did it come from, and where did it go?

Jerry, can you ask the Gospel Messengers, where did material come from? (On this earth I mean! *G*)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:40 PM

Hi, Susan: The guys are pretty good about remembering black gospel from their childhood, and as they are in their mid 70's their memory goes back a ways. If there are any particular songs you want me to ask them about, I'd be happy to do it. The truth is, there is so much gospel music that it staggers the mind. Black, and white. I'm not much of a scholar, I must admit. You, Dicho and Masato always seem to have the answers. I might have a recording, if I like the song. If I don't find anything that moves me in the song, I might have two or three versions of the song and not even remember it...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 12:50 PM

If I don't find anything that moves me in the song, I might have two or three versions of the song and not even remember it...

Yes, it is the same with us. If it does not stick in two hearings, it's not one for us. The ones we should do seem obvious. Fortunately the ones we are not supposed to do seem to be someone else's to do, so a lot gets done, all kinds.

Would you ask the guys where material used to come from? About some of it being composed at the time?

Right now I want Beautiful Stars, and I can almost transcribe it. A few unclear syllables.

Jerry Zolten, who I will meet in midMay, has just done a book on the Dixie Hummingbirds, and I am lookig forward to his presentaion on that at the Folk College coming up. I plan to drain his brain! *G*

~S~


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 01:17 PM

We're opening for the Dixie Hummingbirds, May 15, if I didn't mention it.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 11:42 PM

Be still my beating heart!

Where?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 07:15 AM

Stamford, CT. Not right around the corner. But, they are touring. I'll ask them if they have a schedule of where they'll be performing. According to the All Music Guide, by the way, they also recorded under the name Southern Sons.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 07:16 AM

It would help if I was awake before I typed stuff... they recorded as the Swanee Quintet. At least that's what the All-Music Guide says. I'm going to ask them about that whe I see them.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 08:13 AM

Susan, I've often been having difficulty finding old gospel lyrics. I don't have lyrics to most songs on the Document gospel CDs.
Jerry, the Dixie Hummingbirds are a favorite group in Japan too. Several CDs were sold in Japan, two or three of which were produced by Japanese record companies.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Apr 02 - 09:30 PM

Hi, Masato: You're right... much of the best re-issues of American folk and gospel come for Japan and Germany. I just got a great 6 CD set of black gospel, 90% of which I don't have and it was produced in Germany. The finest CD of the Harmonizing Four I've ever come across, I bought in London. I can't say the reverse is true... Hardly any great Japanese or German reissues in local stores over here... :-)

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Apr 02 - 09:42 PM

I did another search today and found some good sites about history of black gospel and bios, but no lyrics. I'll post the links when I get a chance, though.

Now, I could post the versions we end up doing, but by the time I am done with a piece it isn't exactly authentic. I just don't have the time to transcribe, post, then edit and make into a songsheet, then post that. Should I post what I am doing or, since they would not be original versions, should I not? Is there an interest? In some cases I won't even be able to cite who did the original recording.

How much you want to bet that old black gospel is the next "bluegrass"? Right behind "O Brother" in our culture's "discovery" of great music it somehow missed?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 09:07 AM

ref


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 04:03 AM

Always willing to make work for others, I have a suggestion. Post a list of song (hymn?) names, and put the massive googling power of the mudcat to work.


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:46 AM

No, that's exactly the problem-- you can Google all day and not find a damn thing unless it's a black-gospel-style version of a known hymn. The sheet music is not scanned and online, the lyrics have not been transcribed off recordings and hung up somewhere-- there's no collecting reflected, unless something has changed very recently.

Jerry, Masato, you mentioned recordings, above. Do they come with lyrics in the liner notes?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 12:48 PM

No lyrics... Just a list of the songs and the artists..

Sorry..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:19 PM

Lyrics of many Black Gospel songs (as opposed to Spirituals), along with music (rarely chords) in collections such as:
- SONGS OF ZION
- WE'LL UNDERSTAND IT BETTER BY AND BY (Bernice Johnson Reagon)
- GREAT GOSPEL SONGS OF THOMAS A. DORSEY
- LIFT EVERY VOICE AND SING II
- THE NEW NATIONAL BAPTIST HYMNAL


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Kaleea
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:14 AM

Funny someone should mention "old black gospel," as the subject came up with a voice student of mine recently. I happened to mention to her that one of my oldest & dearest fav hymns happened to be written by Rev. Thomas A. Dorsey--Precious Lord, Take My Hand. I learned it listening to recordings of Mahalia Jackson when I was a child.
    We went online, & as usual, I went to "dogpile," my fav search engine which includes google & many more. I was suprised to find numerous links, evidently because Rev. Dorsey happened to be THE person chosen to highlight as composer extroidinaire (& rightly so) & "Father of Gospel Music" for Black History Month. There were tons of links to tons websites about "Southern Gospel" & "Black Gospel" & of course to sites about Rev. Dorsey. Many of the sites had lyrics & midis. I sent the student home to do some research, & naturally, I thought I'd go back & bookmark some of those sites but didn't get around to it.
    Yes, there is alot being touted as "Gospel Music" in this day & age, but growing up in Oklahoma, I heard what I think of as old time Gospel. And being the Musically confused child that I was, I listened to & loved Music which none of my friends had ever heard of. There I was, a little Irish/Choctaw/Cherokee/whatever gal sitting in front of the Hi-Fi & listening to Mahalia Jackson sing to me, as I sang along. Kids in the neighborhood made fun of me for that, as well as listening to old Jazz greats I'd seen/heard in the movies--& on "Johnny Carson." My Granny (in town as opposed to the Irish one on the farm-they listened to opera, go figure!) had columns of 78's records of Gospel singers & quartets. Many of the quartets were literally called "Southern Gospel" right on the label, as I recall. She went to the Baptist church & loved the Gospel singing. But every now & then when I stayed with my grandparents, my Grandad would let me go to church on Sunday morning with the wife of a pal as they had a little "hair of the dog" and stayed behind. She took me to her church where I had the only white face in the congregation. I stood with her & belted out those gospel songs right along with her. That was my favorite church as a child! They got to sing the really good songs! My Granny was mortified!--something Grandad & I thought was hysterically funny. I laugh now, as I remember Granny's horrified face as I sang the "colored folks' songs." But sometimes, Granny would sing some of those songs too, as she was going about her chores.
    So, google or dig through the dogpile & you can find some great music. It's out there. I also find alot of treasures in Music books I find a garage/estate sales. We should do our best to preserve that old music!


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:59 AM

I don't know whether or not black gospel--I can never really differentiate between gospel and spirituals--pre-dated commercial recordings or not, but Document Records claims to have every gospel recording made prior to World War II. Available at CAMSCO, of course.


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 11:13 AM

Dick, I don't if it's a pre WWII song but if you've got a copy of The Hallelujah (Halleluiah?) Boogie or maybe it's just Hallelujah Boogie without the "The" in front of it. Just let me know where to send the $.


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 09:17 AM

Still looking for old black gospel lyrics online. There are zillions of recorded songs never collected into songbooks, and altho the recordings can be found in various places, the sound quality is still poor enough to miss significant parts of the lyrics.

Google brings a glut of NEW black gospel commercial crap.

Isn't there a forum somewhere? I believe someone mentioned one but never gave the link or location.

I don't mind transcribing when I can but it would be nice the find a place where people share. If Mudcat is going to be that place, fine, but if there already is another, I'd appreciate a few breadcrumbs and a flashlight.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: nutty
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 11:58 AM

You could try "American Memory" Susan.
I just put gospel in the search engine and it seemed to bring up the type of song you were looking for.

Sheet Music


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:06 PM

Thanks, nutty.

I'm mostly looking for lyrics to later, recorded material, but those are interesting.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: nutty
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:13 PM

African American Sheet Music 1850 -1920 can be found    here.


Are you are looking for more modern songs recorded after 1920?


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:30 PM

Yes, especially that which was not considered as hymnody at the time-- so it will be stuff that tended not to be considered for inclusion in hymnals. The parallel would be that while there is a ton of BLUEGRASS gospel, very, very little of it gained recognition in churches as suitable for inclusion in books published for congregational use. Now, some of the old black gospel often WAS used in worship, as well as on the performance stage, but I think tended to be transmitted orally in the call-response or basing forms that came out of the spirituals.


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:42 PM

HERE is some info about a place where what I am looking for can be heard. Also Fort festival at American Memory; Quartet Radio; Dovesong; Kennedy's Millenium Stage.... all of which have sound archives, and which I have written about in other threads, if people want to go have some fun with great tunes.

I can't be the only aficionado/student who has found these.... So, with this much hearable online, I'd be surprised if there is not a collectors' lyric site. Golly, if it's a secret, PM me!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 11:17 AM

frewesh


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:34 PM

Sheeshefrew


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: cetmst
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 01:39 PM

I have copies of the following books:

THE STORY OF THE JUBILEE SINGERS WITH THEIR SONGS
Author: J.B.T.Marsh
Pub: Houghton, Osgood & Co., The Riverside Press, Cambridge MA 1880
112 songs of the Fisk University Jubilee Singers

THE BOOKS OF AMERICAN NEGRO SPIRITUALS, paperback reprints of "The Book of American Negro Spirituals" and "The Second Book of American Negro Spirituals"
Authors: James Weldon Johnson and J. Rosamund Johnson
Pub: Viking Press, New York, originally published 1926 and 1927, two-volume set rebublished 1953

AMERICAN NEGRO SONGS AND SPIRITUALS
Ed: John W. Work
Pub: Bonanza Books, a division of Crown Books, Inc., New York,1940
230 songs - spirituals, blues, work songs, hollers, jubilees, social songs, plus a Bibliography of 45 entries

WHITE SPIRITUALS OF THE SOUTHERN UPLANDS
Author: George Pullen Jackson
Pub: Dover Reprint 1965 of book originally published by The Univerity
      of North Carolina Press, 1953
Notes some origins and adaptations in Ameerican Negro music

SPIRITUAL FOLK SONGS OF EARLY AMERICA


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: cetmst
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:02 AM

Inadvertently hit submit button before finishing. "Spiritual Folk Songs of Early America" by George Pullen Jackson, published 1937 has some pertinent material. My copy is currently misfiled somewhere. Can search the other books for specific item or post table of contents or even mail copies if it would be helpful. Have not come across "Beautiful Stars".


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 05:22 PM

Thanks, cetmst.

I found THIS SITE hiding in the Mudcat random links system-- it doesn't seem to show up in the regular Links page but my eye caught it in the yellow box one day so I took a look.

It is a membership site (free) and I joined with my same name, so if you see me over there, it is indeed me.

MOST of what they have now is newer stuff, but we have corresponded and they do have an interest in the earlier material. We're talking about doing some crosslinking. When I start posting lyrics there I will describe their resources and structure at greater length in the Spirituals Permathread, with a link to them.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: Dani
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 07:36 PM

Hey, you still want "Beautiful Stars"? I've just noticed your request, and have been listening to Isaac Freeman's newish cd, and it's on there.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD BlackGospel Lyrics??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:39 PM

yesyesyesyes!!!!

~S~


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Subject: RE: Where Are OLD Black Gospel Lyrics??
From: GUEST,Kathy
Date: 14 May 13 - 04:45 PM

Yes I have been listening to Isaac Freeman singing Beautiful Stars on youtube - it is awesome I have listened over and over and would like the words


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