Tech: Get data from a music CD?

Subject: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: NightWing
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 03:28 PM

I don't know whether this is possible or not ... and I couldn't find anything with a search.

I want to pull the separate recording tracks from a music CD. Hear each microphone's input separately. Is this possible? How?

BB,
NightWing

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 04:11 PM

Not possible because the multi-track recording was mixed down to two tracks and mastered in stereo - left and right channel, is all you've got.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 05:27 PM

What a bizzare idea!

NightWing,

Did you honestly think that was possible???

I'll pass on my dunce hat...

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 05:53 PM

If you rip a track/selection from a CD and pull it up in something like Sound Forge or GoldWave, you will see two different channels.

If only two mics were used to create the track, and each mic's output was placed in a different channel, then you can hear each mic's input separately.

Otherwise, michaelr is correct.

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: NightWing
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 05:56 PM

Well, I know they record several tracks, but I don't know anything about the mixing process. I guess I was figuring that the tracks would stay separate, simply assigned to left/right channels in varying amounts.

Wanted to separate the parts from a recording of four-part harmony, so I could transcribe the parts. I can't pick them out from each other most of the time.

Any ideas, then?

BB,
NightWing

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 06:00 PM

sometimes if you turn off one channel, you can hear 'most' of the parts you want....might help

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 06:39 PM

If you turn off one speaker to try and find individual tracks, and you're using your computer, make sure the 3d button on the speakers (if it has one) or the 3d stereo button in the volume control in windows is not on.

That button mixes the two stereo tracks together, and you will not get distinct separation of the two stereo tracks.

Steve

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 07:55 PM

Seems quite reasonable idea to me to wonder whether this might be possible. It'd be quite possible to have all this kind of information on a CD, so that people could mix their own tracks.

In fcat I have a distinct feeling that there are some instructional packages which do exactly this with pieces of music, as a way of teaching users how to mix tracks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 05:31 PM

I believe it was Todd Rundgren who pioneered the idea of "make your own mix", but I believe you'd have to use a CD-ROM to do it, not an ordinary audio CD.

Michael

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Apr 02 - 09:01 PM

Depending on what type of four part harmony it is, it is often easier to work out the harmonies on paper--or, on either a keyboard or a guitar--a lot of times, think about the top and bottom parts first--also helps to know the types of movement in counterpoint--

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Apr 02 - 12:17 AM

Try changing the settings on the equalizer, since each voice should have slightly different range, and this may help you emphasize each part until you can more easily pick out each voice by the singer's unique vocal characteristics.

Also listen for differences in accents...

But the main thing is, listen for one voice at a time separately, concentrating on it till you have a feel for that singer's sound. Once you have achieved that with each singer, you will be better able to hear each individually at the same time you are hearing the total effect of the harmony.

I am quite sure this is something you can do just by ear. I used to learn complex choral music by this method-- such as Bach's b minor Mass, for choir-- by hearing a version of it by a tiny ensemble of soloists acting as the full choir, one voice per part. The melody was not always in the soprano part, so to hear the soprano part throughout was tricky, especially in fugues. But it comes, with time. I eventually learned the whole Mass, just as I had learned Handel's Messiah (alto part) by ear.

Eventually these efforts resulted in some improvement of my note-reading ability, but I still learn gospel music by ear because it is so catching that way.

Finally, it does not really matter who is doing each part at any given moment in the song.... if you are hearing a certain set of pitches, your singers can sort out who should take which-- just turn them loose on it, let them cross over each other, etc..

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: treewind
Date: 27 Apr 02 - 07:13 PM

These *is* a technique for removing the vocal from a song.
It doesn't always work, and it relies on the fact that the lead vocal track is usually placed dead centre between left and right - i.e is in exactly equal amonuts and in phase on the L and R channels. Meanwhile all the accompaniment tracks are panned more or less off centre. So what you do is subtract R from L and with a bit of luck the lead vocal will cancel out and you'll get a (rather bad) mix of the backing only.

Any reverb added to the vocal will not be removed by this technique.

If you have a way of doing this and varying the proportions of L and R, you may be able to change the mix in ways that help to hear the individual parts better. You can't separate out one voice, but you can perhaps almost eliminate one voice at a time which would give you three instead of four to sort out aurally.

In a natural stereo recording made with two mics, this may not work at all well because of phase differences that mean simple subtraction doesn't cancel things out.

You certainly don't have the full multi track information on an ordinary stereo CD.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: Escamillo
Date: 28 Apr 02 - 01:20 AM

"... and I couldn't find anything with a search. "

NightWing, did you search for a MIDI file of the song or piece that your are interested in ? Many times I liked a choral or instrumental work and lacked any source for the full score, but a search in the net brought out a MIDI file and that was a wonderful solution. For example, the works mentioned by Susan are now widely available as MIDIs, as well as popular, folk and blues songs too.

Un abrazo - Andrés, in Buenos Aires

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:29 AM

Excellent point, Andres!

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: okthen
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 12:49 PM

In the early 60's, I was friendly with a guy whose family came to UK from Poland. He had a radio that could filter out different parts of a soundtrack, for instance, when playing an instrumental on the radio he would press a button and only the bass could be heard, another button and only the piano, likewise for drums. I have never heard of this since and several people I've told doubted my word.This is pre synthesiser and looked like any other large plastic radio, except that the station markings were in Polish, has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: treewind
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:06 PM

The Polish Radio?
Looks to me like it would have been severe tone controls.

Bass=low
Piano=mid
drums=high

Bet it could't separate a flute from a fiddle :-)

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Get data from a music CD?
From: okthen
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:34 PM

That could be it Treewind, I don't know.It was a long time ago, and I just assumed I'd see the same thing somewhere else but never did, weird tho'.