Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 09 - 01:39 PM

Wabash Cannon Ball for me. All his Biographers, ill informed, tell
us Lonnie's mother was Irish, correct, from Omagh, Co Tyrone, nand
that his father was "Scottish". His father may have been born in
Scotland but he was of Irish origin. The name Donegan is the
anglesised form of the Irish O'Donnagain. David Niven, Sean Connery
and Billy Connolly are likewise of Irish descent...................
God be with you Anthony James "Lonnie" Donegan
                                                 James Molloy.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Roger R.
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:39 PM

Lutz,

In my opinion, amplification was an inevitable step for Lonnie. While 'Showcase' was a studio project, shortly afterwards he had to venture on-stage with his band and fill variety theatre auditoriums. There are a few photos showing a small amp for Micky Ashman (bass) and another amp that both Lonnie AND Denny were plugged into! Very primitive by today's standards, but they all had to be heard above the drum-kit!

His next LP, 'Lonnie', was also very acoustic in quality, by the way. I agree about the Albert Hall BBC tapes, by the way (that was the gig where Denny lost his job due to inebriation! - listen to his clumsy playing...). Les Bennetts had a harsh and abrasive electric tone - the game was up by the time HE was on guitar....

Roger R.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Lutz Eikelmann
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 02:37 AM

Your summary is right, Roger. Donegan´s qualities and vitality does not depend on the use of electric guitars, and there lots of later recordings without electric guitars which I really love ( for example various songs of the Lonnie Donegan Folk Album/1965, Spanish Nights of CD "Muleskinner Blues" or, not to forget, the Skiffle Sessions Live in Belfast with fine guitar work of Paul Henry and Big Jim Sullivan. And there are also fine unplugged recordings on his latest CD "This Yere De Story" like for example "Rambling Man"...

I know the example you gave of Lonnie´s recordings in 1956. I guess it was the Royal Albert Hall concert of January 1957 when Denny Wright used first time the electric guitar ( --> Cumberland Gap ); these live-recorded tracks are issued on various CDs, for example in Bear Family´s 8-CD-Box(plus book) "More Than Pye In The Sky".
But during the Conway Hall concert of same month Denny played more in the 1956-sound when I should describe it. So it seems that the Albert Hall was a remarkable point of change. What do you think, Roger?

At the end, it´s not important to discuss too much about the sense of electric guitars in Skiffle, it´s ok with and without --- and when Lonnie was the vocalist, it doesn´t matter what happened behind him.

Johnny Duncan´s "Last Train To San Fernando" was one of my next favourites of my childhood. When I was eight years ( 1975 ) I discovered this recording on a Country compilation long-play record and played it again and again. Right, this is really the other important Skiffle evergreen of the early days. Most of the others are a bit "too brave".

Jimmy Currie has been one of my guitar favourites, too, and I really appreciate his songwriting, for example I like his "Nobody Loves Like An Irish Man", but he also did "Jack O´Diamonds" and, as co-writer, "I´ll Never Fall In Love Again".

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Roger R.
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:15 PM

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Lonnie's sound actually got progressively more 'electric' as time went on. The first two singles (Rock Island Line & Lost John with their respective 'B' sides) were recorded before he first went to the USA in '56 and were definitely fully-acoustic, even if 'Lost John' had a distinctly 'rock' feel.

When he heard that 'Lost John' was in the top ten, he returned to Britain to capitalise on the situation. Pye wanted an LP, so Lonnie hastily assembled some song-titles and recruited Nick Nichols and Micky Ashman on drums and bass respectively. The story surrounding Denny Wright's arrival is more complex, but he was called to that first post-USA session with, according to Donegan, a borrowed Hofner Committee (his guitar was out-of-town at a gig he was doing) which was played acoustically throughout the record date. Listen to 'Lonnie Donegan Showcase' and you'll hear that clearly there are no amps in the studio.

'Bring a Little Water, Sylvy' was also completed at the same time (as well as, I believe, 'Dead or Alive'); Denny's solo on '...Sylvy' was actually on mandolin, even if it's almost inaudible on the recording.
Listen, too, to Denny Wright's excellent piano accompaniment on 'How Long, How Long Blues'. Lonnie does a great vocal on that one, too!

'Don't You Rock Me, Daddy-o' had Denny sounding a little more 'electric' (as he also did on 'Cumberland Gap') - I believe he had a preference for unobtrusive amplification (more like sound- reinforcement) and liked the acoustic sound of his guitar to prevail - this is in common, of course, with all jazz guitarists of that time.

Jimmy Currie (Denny's replacement) was much more of a rock-player, but still with a fine sense of jazz-phrasing. His amplified sound is much more apparent that was Denny's.         

Les Bennetts was the clumsiest player of the three, but I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Lonnie actually liked his flashy and gimmicky style - at least in commercial terms. To me, it was the end of an era, though.

Throughout this period ('56 - '60) the overall sound of Lonnie's records got slightly more abrasive and more 'pop'; this was, no doubt, deliberate.

So - the important thing here was Donegan's professionalism. No doubt his band sounded much sharper than McDevitt's or The Vipers, but I have no doubt that this was primarily due to the high level of competence at work on Lonnie's records - Donegan himself very much included! If anyone needs affirmation of this, listen to '...Daddy-O', 'Cumberland Gap' and 'Dead Or Alive' - remember that Denny was also very much an instinctive arranger - these tracks (and others) stand up very well today in terms of dynamic excitement and musicality. Observe, too, that Denny then took his talents to Johhny Duncan's Blue Grass Boys - his is the guiding hand behind the wonderful arrangement of 'Last Train To San Fernando', arguably the only non-Donegan 'skiffle' recording that really repays a listen in the 21st Century!

In summary, I can't quite agree that the electric guitar was the difference between Lonnie's work and all the others - the electric guitar was just one of his musical tools - the dynamism of his performance was the real catalyst....

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:13 AM

I still remember as though it was yesterday going to my youth club and Steve and Muff Winwood who were also members and lived just up the road from me, came in with washboard and tea chest bass and sang some skiffle. I still remember Steve causing uproar by leaving school at the age of 14 to follow his musical career (I think I am correct about that).
A few years later, must have been about 1963, I went to my local trad jazz club at the Roebuck in Erdington, Birmingham. The bloke in front of me in the queue said to the organiser "can I play in the interval mate" The organiser said "OK chief".
This bloke sang Lonnie Donegan numbers through the interval. He was in my opinion pretty crap. Lo and behold if fairly soon after that he formed the Spencer Davis Group. Yep it was spencer Davis.
The rest is history.
Did Lonnie influence them? I think so.

Real Name: Spencer Davis
Birth Date: 17th July 1942
Birth Place: Swansea

Real Name: Steve Winwood
Birth Date: 12th May 1948
Birth Place: Birmingham

Real Name: Mervyn Winwood (Muff)
Birth Date: 15th June 1943
Birth Place: Birmingham

Real Name: Pete York
Birth Date: 15th August 1942
Birth Place: Middlesbrough

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Lutz Eikelmann
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 09:14 AM

May the Kids´ musical fashion "Skiffle" was close to Jugband Music, so Lonnie Donegan´s style was more influenced by Jazz, Rock´n´Roll and Country Blues with a repertory based on Ledbelly, Woody Guthrie, Josh White, Lonnie Johnson, Big Bill Broonzy and, regarding a few of his songs, the Kingston Trio, when we are talking about his early days.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Lutz Eikelmann
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:44 AM

That´s right. The Skiffle stereotypes of teachest-bass etc. have nothing to do with Lonnie´s music. And let´s not forget, almost all other Skiffle recording artists of those days didn´t use a tea-chest. Chas McDevitt, Vipers, Ken Colyer, Bob Cort, all used a double-bass, and Dickie Bishop & His Sidekicks played with electric bass ( and occasionally tuba ).

I agree, Roger, somehow Lonnie had not competitors, it were different "worlds" between him and others. Although I like very much what the others ( please see above ) did, nobody´s recordings have thrilled me like Lonnie´s did and still do. He was really unique.

I appreciate his professionalism, too, I do very much. And on the few occasions we play Skiffle today ( as professional jazzmen ) we tried to work on the highest possible quality standards, too. Of course, it is fun to use a Kazoo or Tea-Chest occasionally during a jam on a private party, a barbecue or wherever, but in concert and in a recording-studio I prefer the professional side of Skiffle as represented by Lon.
Not everyone likes that, I know, for example a british reviewer wrote this month about my CD "Remembering Lonnie Donegan" that "Over-Amplification" ( he probably means the use of electric lead guitars in 60% of the songs ) has nothing to do with Skiffle & Lonnie Donegan. Well, I agree that electric guitars are not necessary in common Skiffle bands, but it was not Lutz Eikelmann, but Lonnie Donegan who invented them in Skiffle in 1957 and used them until the end of his career. So don´t blame me!

If I would ever work on Ken Colyer Skiffle tributes, I will never use an electric guitar in the line-up, but it is definetly right in the Lonnie context.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Roger Rettig
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 01:30 PM

I know this is an old thread - maybe I should have started a new one...

There are several references to the simplicity of the music that Lonnie Donegan pioneered, and the makeshift nature of the instruments (tea-chest bass, washboards, etc) involved.

It is true that there was a washboard on 'Rock Island Line', but it wasn't a tea-chest bass - it was a real one! Thereafter, Lonnie Donegan and his band were known for the very professional gloss that was his trademark.

They were among the best players in the country at the time (Nick Nichols, Micky Ashman and Denny Wright - later replaced by Jimmy Currie) and their instruments were top-of-the-line Martin, Gibson or Gretsch guitars, as well as proper double-bass and full pro drum-kit.

They appeared on stage in full evening-dress, with Lonnie's dress-suit being a shiny mohair of some sort. (There's a story that Lonnie always insisted on appearing on the '6-5 Special' TV Show in dresswear, overiding compere Pete Murray's objections that it was too formal for a teenage show.)

No - the rest of the 'competition' ('though it's questionable that Donegan ever HAD any real competition in the skiffle world) certainly played washboards and cheap guitars, but Lonnie Donegan maintained the very highest standards in every respect.

Maybe us wannabes were able to approximate some of his songs on our primitive instruments (or at least get the chords right!), but no-one got close to his consummate musicianship or the professionalism that typified the act that he presented on the Variety stages and TV studios of the 1950s.

He certainly started MY love affair with Martin Guitars that continues to this day......

Roger Rettig

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 03:41 PM

That weird duo White Stripe (The White Stripes?)often talk about Lonnie Donegan--interesting he can still get though to very young Americans.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,jonesey
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:17 AM

Checked out the Lonnie Donegan websites. Didn't realize he was the guy singing 'Does Your Chewing Gum Lose It's Flavor'. Recall singing it on the playground as one of my friends knew the verses and we'd all chime in on the chorus. And all the girls would go EEEEEUUUUUUUWWWWWWW! Need to get a collection of his works. Hope he tours the States again soon.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:04 AM

Rock Island Line was a hit in 1956, so 46 years would be correct I suppose.He was active before then, but 56 was when the skiffle craze started. As to what skiffle was...see previous postings.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:42 AM

GUEST,greg stephens
40 years?
I thought he was well known in the 50's - or so mum told me.
skiffle? what's skiffle?

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:25 AM

Absolutely right - Lonnie changed the world. In the mid to late 50s, if you were a teenager who wanted to play music you had to buy an expensive instrument like a trumpet or clarinet and then spend an eternity learning to play it. Along came Lonnie and showed that with a guitar (using just three chords)plus a tea chest bass and a wash board, you could have an instant band. Thousands of us did just that and most quickly realised that not only could you play songs likwe the Midnight Special using this formula, you could also play the new Elvis Presley and Buddy Holly stuff that was just coming in. Some of us, though, took the folk route........

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 06:45 AM

Interesting coincidence that the last three consecutive postings came from people who were singing in the same folk club in Oxford in 1962.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 06:36 AM

Back in the Dark Ages, before Lonnie came along, so-called "popular" song in Britain was dominated by men in tuxedos and women in sequinned dresses, who sang turgid ballads about "Luuuaaaahhhvve" with a slushy orchestal backing. They were usually loyal members of the Musicians' Union, and seemed to treat their work as just another job (apart from the slightly unusual hours), putting no soul or zest into it. Of course there were a few honorable exceptions, like George Formby, but what I've described was the default option.

And then Lonnie did "Rock Island Line", and suddenly,it all changed ... most of us who were around at the time felt like prisoners who had been unexpectedly let out of jail ahead of time. Thanks for that, Lonnie, and a belated happy birthday for yesterday.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 06:19 PM

And if you've been following the Public Entertainment Licence threads, one of the things about this is the way the present law would get in the way of anything like that happening again in England.

One way and another it will though - "anything like that" meaning a surge of do-it-for-yourself music sweeping up from below when noone is really expecting it, and without the cynical bastards who run the music industry having any control over it, to start with anyway.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 05:32 PM

"If he can do it so can I". That was it exactly Jonesy. It changed a lot of things, not just the music scene.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 04:38 PM

Introduced me and others to the songs of Woody, that in itself is a wonderful achievement.
Hope you had a really happy birthday Lonnie. From another Scots/Irish Glaswegian Failte....Giok

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,jonesey
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 03:58 PM

Thanks McG...It's alive and well then here in the States. I've posted ad nauseum about the 'jam band' I've got with my nephews and son(sometimes, but we make him play bass...lol). It started as a 'guy hang' on Wednesday nights when they were in their early teens and their parents had split up. We did pretty much what I'd learned from Mr. Goodman about keeping music 'accessible' and only ran afoul of their Mom when we'd raise dust from pounding on the couch cushions with drum sticks. Got my nephew a set of brushes the following week and he brought in his snare and hi-hat and thus our basic sound was born. Guitar, mandolin, snare...I use kazoo and harmonica as well. When we play at social gatherings we try to include people with any kind of percussion. Hair combs, brushes, knives and forks, even the 'hambone' if nothing else. From what you all describe we're a skiffle band!? How about that! lol Wait 'til I tell my boys! Have read a great deal of writing on various musicians from the UK/Ireland and the two phrases appearing consistantly in just about everyone's history from Mick Jagger to Bert Jansch, Dafydd Iwen to the Chieftains are 'Lonnie Donegan' and 'skiffle'. Thanks again guys I think I get it...No Lonnie-No Stones, Beatles, Animals, Pentangle, Fairport Convention, Incedible String Band, Yardbirds, Cream, etc. Made people think "well if he can do it so can I." He needs to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame if he's not already. Happy Birthday indeed!! Plugging his name into my search engine as soon as this is posted.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 02:41 PM

"It was always loose and we'd play songs from anywhere with whatever was there. Is that what 'skiffle' was all about?" Got it in one, jonesey.

Any good session has a skiffle heart.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 02:02 PM

Skiffle was what he made into a craze: what was important was that the craze turned a generation on to guitars, folk and blues.Which led to The Stones and the Beatles, not to mention our folk revival and the influence that had on Dylan. So even in America youve felt what Donegan did, even if you never heard it and never played skiffle. Mind you, Stan Freburg was on to Lonnie early, and parodied his version of Rock island Line.

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,jonesey
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:56 PM

Maybe the closest thing we've had over here was the Jim Kweskin Jug Band? Spike Jones?

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,jonesey
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:54 PM

Lonnie Donegan...Happy Birthday! Those of us on this side really missed something it seems. Didn't he popularize 'skiffle' as a musical approach? Washboard percussion, washtub bass, acoustic guitar. What else was included in his sound? During my formative years in Chicago I ended up on stage with Steve Goodman a number of times with some makeshift aggregation. It was always loose and we'd play songs from anywhere with whatever was there. Is that what 'skiffle' was all about?

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:22 PM

The story about the "Lonnie" tag is (supposedly) that the announcer got the two names mixed up and announced him as Lonnie Donegan, and it just stuck. (Lucky him, I used get introduced as either Paul or Pat...).

ABCWXYZee...Happy Birthday.

Pete

Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 01:10 PM

Can't think of anything more to be said about this man that hasnt been said already. The world would have sounded a lot different for the last 40 years if he hadn't been around. And we probably wouldnt have been here talking about it.HAPPY BIRTHDAY. Get your ticket at the station on the Rock Island Line.

Subject: Happy Birthday, Anthony James Donegan
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 29 Apr 02 - 12:46 PM

Born in Glasgow on 29 April 1931, of Scots/Irish parents, Anthony James Donegan moved to London with his mother after his parents divorced. His father had been an amateur concert violinist but young Donegan's musical interests grew from the occasional BBC radio shows of the day featuring American Blues singers and New Orleans jazz bands. He bought a guitar at 14, taught himself the basics and set about forming a band. He put together the Tony Donegan Jazzband and found a niche among the few jazz clubs around London at that time. A highlight came when he was asked to appear at the Royal Festival Hall as opening act for one of his boyhood idols and the person from whom he had 'borrowed' his first name, Lonnie Johnson.

From Jazz UK