BS: Was Jesus a white American?

Subject: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Phil
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:03 AM

Was Jesus a white American?

This site appears to think so...

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:14 AM

I'm not shure whether to laugh or cry about this site but good taste it aint. PP

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:17 AM

WEll the problem is PP, it's a REAL site!!! Not a rip-off site for laughs....in which case it wouldn't be funny......Go find the "Shoes of the Fisherman" sandals...You'll love 'em!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Amy
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:30 AM

I like the sports figurines. Good thing Jesus is there to help me with my swing.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:34 AM

Shoes of the Fisherman" that 'Spaw mentioned.

What an hilarious site! You couldn't have made it up...

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Amy
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:42 AM

"Hand-finished in Thailand by adult Christian workers paid a living wage and working in good conditions..."

Nice disclaimer! LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:09 AM

To answer the question, No, he wasn't, but He is now, as well as every other variation of humanity you can imagine or run across.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:18 AM

I suspect this is another of these "Only in America" things. At least I hope it is. There wouldn't be many takers for T-shirts like that (with a Union Jack on them) at my church, thank God.

I wonder if they have stuff like that in Iraq, where one in five of the population are Catholics?

When they have a funeral in Ireland with a tricolour, it's a firm rule that the flag has to be removed before the coffin is carried into the chiurch. I think that's a good rule. They should apply it to T-shirts like that. Which might be quite interesting in some cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:19 AM

I really can't tell from the picture on the site, since the figurine appears to be gold colored. It does give the distinct impression that Jesus was male, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:19 AM

WYSIWYG,

Hmmm, can you explain how Jesus is now a white American (or anything else for that matter?)

I thought he was busy being God now?

He became man, got killed and gave up being a man. Can't blame him, the best seat in heaven must beat being a poor bloke by miles....

Theologically speaking, can you please explain your last statement, because it makes no sense Biblically.

Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:33 AM

Re the sports statues: if Jesus is helping the kid at bat, does that mean the He (and God) don't like the other team?

And in the basketball one, He's much taller than the kids, which is taking unfair advantage. He should perform a miracle and shrink Himself down to their size.

He's playing soccer in sandals.

The kid tackling Him is probably going to Hell.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:45 AM

C'mon folks. While this type of thing is not my cuppa, let's give it a rest. The shirt simply expresses a love of Christianity and a love of country. Now if it said "God bless America and no other country" that would be different. Jingoism isn't the expressing of love of country. It is when we make comments like "Our country is the greatest country in the world" as if others weren't. I don't see that in this shirt. And I also can't seem to find where it implies that Christ was white. I don't even see where it implies that he was American.

Lord knows that we have plenty to be concerned about here in America, and that the "Ugly American" syndrome still exists. But threads like this one that simply form a false predicate and then set it up as a method to ridicule only show your own biases. I am somewhat surprised at some of the piling on.

If you want to kick those that are responsible for a foolish foreign policy, I am with you. If you want to berate jingoism, I understand and agree. If you want to pounce on bigots who parade their religion as a badge of honor while they simultaneously take advantage of poor workers around the world, I will lead the van. This shirt is nothing I would wear or have my children wear, but only because I think that belief systems and faith are for inward reflection and should guide our daily lives. But the whole basis for this thread is a phony predicate which implies something that isn't stated or even implied.


Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 09:58 AM

ROFLMAO!!! Ohhh, this is too funny. The scary thing is that people actually buy such merchandise.

The whole idea of Jesus competing in team sports against a team of children doesn't exactly "inspire" me to think of him in terms of "Jesus 'as friend' ". Brrrr.

I've gotta say that I don't understand Phil's assumption that Jesus was a white American, just from looking at that T-shirt "art". Who says all American Catholics are white? A lot of them, to be sure, but all of them? (Guess it depends in part on whether one considers Italian-Americans to be "white".) Note, on the Jesus Inspirational Sport Statues page, the following statement: "Many customers have requested these Jesus Sport Statues depicting children other than Caucasian and playing other sports; we have expressed these requests to manufacturers and importers. When and if other statues are available, CatholicShopper.com will carry them." So there are definitely non-Caucasian Catholics out there seeking inspiration from this sort of kitsch. Funny thing, though; the page doesn't mention any requests from customers of any nationality (not just American customers) for a Jesus of color.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:00 AM

Body of Christ, and so forth.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:07 AM

Well, I guess because I played Hockey, Lacrosse & golf and Jesus obviously didn't, I must be a heathen. This could also explain why the Canadian National Anthem has been booed at recent hockey games. It's obvious that Canadian Hockey teams are heathens.

I don't care if it rains or freezes...

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:11 AM

I like McGrath's idea of no flags in the churches. This t-shirt is the kind of thing which blurs the separation of church and state, in some peoples' minds. It also makes the assumption that all who are patriotic enough to fly the flag must also be Christian. It's just really poor taste, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:23 AM

It's hard to tell from the picture on this page – http://catholicshopper.com/products/inspirational_sport_statues3.html – but in the skiing statue, it looks like Jesus has skis attached to the bottoms of his sandals!

At least, in the hockey statue (http://catholicshopper.com/products/inspirational_sport_statues2.html he's wearing proper skates. Nobody's wearing proper headgear, though. There again, his height and weight are giving him an unfair advantage... and he appears to be competing against both hockey teams for the puck!

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:25 AM

Hey Steve, you forgot to point out that it was booed after the Vancouver fans booed the US anthem when it was played to start a playoff game. I am sure it was just an oversight. For what it is worth, I think that Canadians or Yanks that boo the others anthem are acting pretty silly. But that is nothing new at sporting events. Lighten up folks. Here is what RAY O'MALLEY OF CBC has to say about it. I agree with him.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:41 AM

Mick,

The Vancouver incident was in reponse to Pistons fans booing our anthem in game vs. The Raptors the night before.

Having said that, I was disgusted by the thought of a Canadian sinking so low.

SharonA, thanks I didn't realize there was more than one page. I especially love the Martial Arts one. I guess those kids are training to beat the crap out of the heathen Buddhists who started Martial Arts.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: sophocleese
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 10:52 AM

Personally I'm interested to note which genders are represented in which sports. Does this mean that if you only have girls figure skating with Jesus he doesn't like boys figure skating? Only boys should play hockey?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:04 AM

Steve: You're welcome! At least you can rest easy now that you know Jesus plays hockey and golf, too. Lacrosse still appears to be the devil's tool, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:07 AM

Sharon,

That must be my trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:12 AM

Y'all be nice, now. I bought a St. Cecilia medal from this site awhile back. I'm not Catholic myself, but as Cecilia is the matron/patron saint of musicians, I figured I could use all the help I can get. It hangs on the chain with my favorite silver cross. Now, I know Jesus is the only help I need, but I didn't think it would hurt to have Cecilia on my side too. :-)

Several years ago, one of the magazines like Time or Newsweek did an article about the many faces of Jesus worldwide. In white European art, he's depicted as white. In African art, he's black. In Asian art, he's - guess what? Asian. Every culture brings Jesus to the level they can relate to. It was a fascinating article.

Subject: Jesus and the angels play sports!
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:15 AM

Hey, look, the angels are playing too! (and I don't mean just the baseball team in California!) http://catholicshopper.com/products/sportangels.html

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:15 AM

"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for the American people"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we should come up with some more topical slogans, like "Proud Catholic: Bugger Everyone Else"!

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:27 AM

No, he was a Jew, and he probably had a fairly dark tan.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:28 AM

Roses are reddish
Violets are bluish
If it wasn't for Jesus
We'd all still be Jewish.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 11:36 AM

Folks, can't we just get a kick out of this without beating each other up over it? As to Catholic, well, Catholic be damned.....or at least purgatoried.......I live in a tiny town on the fringe of both the Appalachians and the midwest. We have very few Catholics, but we got a LOT of religion going on and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I could redeem my reputation (resident hippie communist) in this town if I were to give away Jesus statuary to the school's football team or my son's soccer team!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 12:01 PM

Hah, Conan O'Brien bought up a bunch of those Jesus sports statues a while back. Hilarious. Love the karate one. >:)

And An Pluiméir Ceolmhar, most of us wouldn't be Jewish; my family had plenty of gods before Jesus. :)

--Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 01:06 PM

I have, however, always wanted a plastic Jesus for the dashboard. Does anyone know where I can get one? Archie McPhee has a Jesus Action Figure, but it don't have sticky feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 02:02 PM

Kim: A "Jesus Action Figure"?!? What does he do?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Chip A.
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 02:02 PM

What Big Mick said!

If this thread made fun of the faith of Native Americans or Buddists, would you all come running, full of righteous indignation, to the defense of the maligned?

I too think some of the stuff on the catholic website is silly. So what? The nature of blind spots is that we can see them in others but not in ourselves.

Peace

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 02:23 PM

Well, I have to say that I do see this shirt as depicting Jesus as American, or at least belonging to the U.S.

I am laughing about this stuff, but at the same time I'm offended. I was raised in the Catholic Church and while I don't consider myself a practicing Catholic, I think my upbringing certainly played a big roll in defining who I am. I believe that Jesus' teachings were for all of us, and not just Blonde haired All American or Red haired good Irish-Canadian boys (of which I happen to be one). The amount of violence that has occurred for centuries throughout the world that has been started by the Jesus good, everything else evil, or even worse, my Jesus is good, yours is wrong (Mick, I think you can relate to that) sickens me. I belive that Jesus would be greatly offended by being associated with a U.S., Canadian or any other flag for that matter as I think his teachings had no borders.

Sorry for the rant, but that's how I see this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 02:49 PM

I understand and agree with most of what you said, Steve. And I wouldn't wear the shirt either. But there is nothing on it that implies what is being said. It probably appeals to the "one nation, under God" crowd. It doesn't imply that he is white, or American. It comes across to me as more like "A good Christian is patriotic". Which I also find to be unappealing. My point is that the thread title is a troll of the first order, and most of us bit.

By the way, we could start our own version of the troubles by going back and forth citing earlier and earlier instances of who abused the others anthem first. That was my point. Hell, I consider myself an honorary Canadian anyway. :->

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 02:51 PM

*I* have the Jesus action figure right here in my office; he has fully posable arms & "gliding action"!

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 03:01 PM

Yeah Mick, you're in. I mean anyone who has spent at the Twelfth Fret and Bruce Dowd's place is in. And I think I know Fielding well enough that if he makes you one of us then it's good enough for me.

You're right, we bit. I felt bad about my rant immediately after posting it. No offence meant to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 03:04 PM

Chip: I don't think anyone's making fun of the faith of Catholics, just of the discrepancies between that faith and the portrayals of Jesus (and angels) in this merchandise. Obviously some Catholics find these figurines and this t-shirt art inspirational, but I doubt that the message they imply is canonical!

By the way, I found Archie McPhee's "Jesus Action Figure"! Not only do his arms move so he can look like he's giving a blessing, but he's got wheels under his feet so he can look like he's performing the miracle of moving around without walking! http://www.mcphee.com/bigindex/current/10746.html

Also check out the "Miracle Eyes Jesus" whose face appears to turn and look at you wherever you walk in front of the sculpture: http://www.mcphee.com/bigindex/current/10859.html

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 03:37 PM

Now here is a rather healthier Catholic website from the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 03:55 PM

So Christ and Moses show up in New York City and take a ride around town on their way to St. Patrick's Cathedral. They see the South Bronx and cruise through Harlem and see people sleeping in boxes all over town. Arriving at the cathedral they are overwhelmed with the pageantry of it all as high mass is underway in their honor. The Pope has flown in especially for the occasion and Christ remarks to Moses that perhaps one of the rings the Pope is wearing might be worth enough to feed and clothe several families for years. So that's it then isn't it? What would Christ and Moses think?   If you profess to be a man of god and you own more than one suit of clothes while somebody in the rest of the world has none.....you're a shyster man....a con artist with captive audience.........Lenny Bruce, one version of a part of the bit he called "Religions, Inc."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 04:03 PM

Kevin (McGrath): Well, yeah, one would expect www.catholicworker.org to be healthier than www.catholicshopper.com!!! :^)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 04:16 PM

So let's not just pick on the Christian huh? How about this.....I particularly like the golf balls or maybe one of these!

Now who wants to go find some Moslem stuff? Maybe some Native american? How about some nice atheist snow-globes? You gotta' know they're out there somewhere!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 04:43 PM

Why do they have the plastic Jesus on the dashboard facing the passegers ? Shouldn't He be watching for traffic ?.... George Carlin.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 04:50 PM

Continuing my quest here........How about The Islamic Superstore who seems to be haing a few problems with their site at the moment. Also, can we all not be offended by the fact they are boycotting Israel which is hardly surprising.

BTW, I found a Hindu store selling little monks in orange robes, but they aren't UL approved ax they keep bursting into flame.........That's a joke folks, nothing but a joke....a bad joke perhaps, but those guys DID know how to protest didn't they? Like George Carlin says, "How about some of these "Right to Lifers" doing THAT!!! You want attention? You want to show you're serious? Show some SMOKE!!!"

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 04:57 PM

Okay, Catspaw, let's start with the "MyMuslim.com Online Store": http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=mymuslim (get your own baseball shirt and join the Quran team!)

Then there's the "Wasteland of Wonders" atheist, agnostic and humanist shop: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=wow_atheism (get your own baseball shirt and join the Atheist team!) (also gotta love the "Danger: Atheist" boxer shorts)

Native American stuff? It's everywhere! But for Native American kitsch, I'm fond of the Totem Pole Bank at Archie McPhee, and its description: http://www.mcphee.com/bigindex/current/M5618.html

I found a curious disclaimer, though, on this site for cowboy merchandise (http://www.cowboyessentials.com/): "Please Note: The Southwestern items offered in our on-line store and catalog are not Indian produced, Indian products or the products of a particular Indian, Indian Tribe or Indian Arts and Crafts Organization as defined by 2.5 USC & 305 et seq." Wow – non-Native American Southwestern stuff – now that's sumthin'! What was Joe Offer saying on that other thread about bigotry?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 05:07 PM

Have we got it covered yet Sharon......or do we need to go on? I'm going to my son's Soccer practice, but if there are some left for me to look up this evening, let me know.....I hate to leave anyone out!!!

LOVE THE BOXERS!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 05:25 PM

Sharon, you found the Jesus Action Figure!

I think the disclaimer on the cowboy stuff may be because it is Against the Law for anyone to claim goods are "Indian Made" unless the makers are actually officially registered with a Native American tribe, and they just don't want to mislead anyone. In the last few years there has been a lot of brouha about people who aren't Native Americans making and selling Native American crafts, the premise being it takes jobs away from Native Americans. As if all Native Americans know how to do is make crafts... anyway, that's a whole other subject for another thread.

Mick, I am not sure of the exact wording but I think there is something in the Bible about being patriotic, insomuch as people are supposed to support the leaders of their respective countries and such, and obey the laws, and Render Unto Caesar. Perhaps someone more scholarly can expound.

Lookit, I came up in the Baptist church, and trust me, we get our share of jokes too. Most of them have to do with dancing or casseroles. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 05:29 PM

What about people who throw iguanas?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 06:14 PM

Okay. I've heard some of the dancing jokes, but you gotta share the casserole jokes. C'mon...

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Gareth
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 06:54 PM

And God saw his works, and how the program had developed - and he was not pleased.

And he said to his son on earth,

" Hit 'Ctrl' + 'Del' + 'Alt' Twice, and when the Solar Computer reboots, pehaps we shall get the programing right ! For there is no point in saving the present data "

Gareth

Presuming that the Almighty used Windows V. BC4600, as described by Bishop Ussher.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:04 PM

A Baptist Casserole Joke, as told by a Baptist.

The kindergarten teacher said, "We have many different people in our class of many different religions. So we can all learn about each other, for show and tell tomorrow, I'd like you to bring something that represents your religion."

The next day, all the children lined up for show and tell. Andy was first. "I'm Jewish, and I brought a Star of David to show." So he passed his Star around the classroom, while everyone oohed and aaahed.

Jessica was next. "I'm Catholic, and I brought a rosary." The rosary was passed around so everyone could get a good look.

Next up was Billy Earl. "I'm Baptist, and I brought a casserole."

(any of you who know the time-honored tradition of the Church Basement Covered Dish Supper will get it!)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:08 PM

Kim (re the disclaimer on the cowboy stuff): Oh! I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I'd have felt more comfortable reading their disclaimer if they'd added something explanatory to it, or perhaps even made some sort of statement respectful of Native Americans. As it is, the disclaimer itself sounds prejudicial to me; again, I hope I was the one who was "misled" into reading it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:12 PM

At the grave in a small town, each of the three "reps" were present. The priest threw a ten dollar bill in the grave. The Rabbi asked him quietly why ? So he can buy his way from purgatory was the answer. The Rabbi added ten. The SallyAnn asked quietly why and was given the same answer. He jumped in the grave, collected the two tens and left a cheque for thirty.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:29 PM

Sharon, in Alaska, the native people also get preferential treatment when it comes to raw material from the earth, and I think it's a good idea. It doesn't mean that that's all they can do, but hey, they were here a lot longer than any of the whites, and in that sense, it's part of their heritage.

So, only Native Alaskans (up here they're not called Native American, perhaps because Alaska came into the union late) can legally buy or sell or carve raw ivory (often fossilized walrus ivory, no elephant ivory). Whites can buy the finished product.

Also no white person can legally keep any part of any eagle; you can't even pick up a feather to stick in your hat or display in your car or cupboard. (Of course, many do- I've never seen Feather Patrols) The idea, I think, is to remove any suspicion of illegal activity.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:40 PM

So, they get the royalties from minerals in the ground ?

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:53 PM

Personally I found the site tacky. I rather think the almighty would avoid being lumped into any one nationality or religion.Back to the music in this site. Ever hear the song Plastic Jesus? Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:57 PM

Ebbie: Thanks for that info (and insight!). Sure seems like I was reading that disclaimer in exactly the opposite way from what was intended; I interpreted it as meaning, "Rest assured that any merchandise you purchase from us has never been touched by any %#$@& [racial slur]". This is what I get for jumping to conclusions!

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 May 02 - 05:42 AM

Catspaw; some interesting sites, but the first one had a glass menorah pendant, but the menorah had only seven branches ?!

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Kim C
Date: 01 May 02 - 10:12 AM

Well, y'know, people seem to like to express their religious persuasions in different ways. There's bumper stickers, t-shirts, jewelry, statuettes, even tattoos. Some people like to display boldly. I don't, but I don't begrudge anyone else who does, even if I think it's silly. I do have my one standard piece of religious jewelry mentioned above (actually it's two pieces, on one chain), and most of the time when I wear it, it's underneath my clothes. It's there for me, and no one else. Bumper stickers? Well, to me that sort of cheapens it, to put faith on the level of a bumper sticker. But to each their own. It's what's in the heart that counts most of all anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 May 02 - 10:19 AM

Very nicely said, Kim.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 02 - 10:31 AM

McGrath is wrong about the tricolor not being allowed on caskets in Ireland.

However, throughout the Troubles, there has been a serious bone of contention about it between the anti-republican Catholic hierarchy, and the republican movement. It was not an unusual scene, during the course of the Troubles, for the priest to stop the family and the casket at the door to the church on the way in for the funeral mass, and demand the tricolor be removed from the casket for the duration of the mass.

How many civilian funerals of US military personnel take place in churches where an American flag isn't draped over the casket? Is the Union Jack banned from the caskets in the churches of Northern Ireland? No, of course not.

What you are referring to McGrath, was a very nasty tactic on the part of the Catholic hierarchy in Northern Ireland to further humiliate the grieving family, and force them to toe the unionist/loyalist line, in order to receive a Catholic mass for the a deceased republican family member. Pretty horrid, in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:40 AM

In 1954, at the behest of the Ulster Unionists, the The Flags and Emblems Act, suppressing the display of the Irish flag in Northern Ireland was passed. According to the journal "Contemporary British History":

"The Flags and Emblems Act has been seen as symbolising the sectarian and anti-nationalist essence of the Northern Ireland 'police state'. In fact the Act was introduced against the advice of the Inspector General of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. The pressure for it came from the fears of Sir Basil Brooke's government that an 'anti-appeasement' campaign by loyalist ultras was threatening Unionist party hegemony in Protestant politics. The basis for the campaign was the fact that Brooke and his Minister of Home Affairs, Brian Maginess, had attempted to accommodate the new challenges of a welfare state and an international environment seen as more sympathetic to anti-partitionism."

The Act wasn't repealed until the Anglo-Irish Intergovernmental Conference of 1987/1988. Of course, to counter their own bout of liberal thinking about the republican and nationalist causes in Northern Ireland, the British government then turned around and banned the voices of Sinn Fein members from being used in broadcasts in Britain. Of course, the idiocy of that one is well known and was once joked about with great relish. The BBC hired actors to play all the major Sinn Fein personalities, and it became quite ludicrous.

BTW Mcgrath, during the recent reburial of the 10 IRA men who had been interred in a mass grave inside Mountjoy prison since their execution for participating in events of 1916 and thereabouts, full military honors, including the tricolor on all the caskets, were given. That included the tricolors being left on the caskets during the state sponsored mass.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 02 - 12:06 PM

Ya know McGrath, for a guy claiming Irish ancestry who lives right next door to Ireland, you really are pretty ignorant about this stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 May 02 - 12:44 PM

gnu, you gotta draw the line somewhere! LOL

No, when it comes to the minerals, Native Alaskans get the same share as everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 02 - 01:22 PM

All I know is when my father was buried in Tipperary a few years back, as an old IRA man from the Civil War days he had a tricolour on his coffin, and it was laid aside when it came to being taken into church.

No priest or antyone making a fuss about it, just the normal way of doing things, and what he'd have wanted - national flags don't belong inside churches. I wouldn't expect to see one at a funeral Mass in a Catholic Church in England either.

If they made a special arrangement for the Mountjoy men, no doubt there were special reasons.

Anyway my father had the military honurs - a firing party out from the local barracks to fire volleys over the grave. (And a cousin said they had to do that - one way and another there'd have been a firing party.)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Thonolan
Date: 01 May 02 - 03:30 PM

That's just about the tackiest site I've ever seen...

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 01 May 02 - 03:38 PM

tacky? I can't tell. The ones I like are the ones you rub on your hair and then go stand in the closet and they glow in the dark. I suppose there are those who would think these religious objets d'art are tacky too. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 May 02 - 04:38 PM

Catspaw asked yesterday whether we'd left any religions or sects out of the "tacky religious objets d'art" discussion and, knowing how fond he is of sects *G*, I figure there must be plenty more where that came from! But what about the Satan-worshippers???

Well, I've come across a household essential, for the bathroom of the devil's apprentice. Have a look-see: http://www.mcphee.com/products/new/10873.html

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 May 02 - 04:43 PM

...As a matter of fact, Archie McPhee has several more items it calls "Devil's Advocates" (be sure to check out the clock with swinging goatee action!): http://www.mcphee.com/products/devils/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 02 - 06:57 PM

Right McGraw, you come from such a long line of old IRA men, yet you don't even know about one of the most contentious laws passed by the Brits in Northern Ireland for the last 50 years--the bloody Flag and Emblem Act?

Sure. I believe you.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 02 May 02 - 12:53 AM

Actually, I think patriotism and religion have a lot in common. Both require unquestioning adherence to dogma and authority figures. Perhaps their concantenation on the T-shirt was not so inappropriate. However, I do think Jesus would roll over in his grave if he knew what people were doing in his name. Al

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: Kim C
Date: 02 May 02 - 10:18 AM

Well, I can't disagree with you there, Al.

When I bought some fun stuff from Archie McPhee, one of my free gifts was a car air freshener - a red Devil Duckie car air freshener! And I love my little Devil Duckie! He goes great with my little red fuzzy dice, that I also got from Archie McPhee.

Duckie has lost his sweet scent, but not his ability to muster a smile or a chuckle. So he stays. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 May 02 - 10:40 AM

Sharon, check out the opera masks! Gathering Garb!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 02 May 02 - 11:03 AM

Susan: You mean I need to get some of those before I visit for the Gathering? The feather masks from Mardi Gras won't do?? *G*

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 02 May 02 - 11:16 AM

By the way, I think our guest Al means to say "concatenation" which means linking together, although my dictionary says "link together in a series or chain". I see the elements of American patriotism and religion, in that t-shirt art, as being juxtaposed in an attempt to combine or merge them, or at least to relate them to one another, but not successfully IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 May 02 - 11:45 AM

No, Sharon, the feather mask will do just fine, and I'll break mine out too.

Coming for May, or waiting for June?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Was Jesus a white American?
From: SharonA
Date: 02 May 02 - 12:02 PM

Susan: June... although at the rate my dentist and endodontist are sucking money out of my bank account, I might have to stay home then, too...