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eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)

GUEST,the good ship sails on the ally ally ay nurs 19 Aug 08 - 04:03 AM
GUEST,Stephen (from Doncaster, South Yorkshire) 04 Aug 08 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,roxiraccoon 18 May 08 - 04:24 PM
Azizi 23 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,teartse (from the netherlands) 23 Mar 08 - 11:45 AM
Wilfried Schaum 11 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM
Azizi 10 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM
Azizi 09 Jan 08 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,Apina 09 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM
Melissa 03 Dec 07 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,man aged 25 03 Dec 07 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,a 12 year old girl 20 Nov 07 - 03:41 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Sep 07 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,G 24 Sep 07 - 03:02 PM
GUEST,Jaycey 08 Sep 07 - 05:57 AM
GUEST 06 Jun 07 - 08:15 PM
Muttley 14 May 07 - 02:49 AM
Bugsy 14 May 07 - 01:27 AM
GUEST,Spiperblaze 14 May 07 - 12:49 AM
GUEST,Sam 25 Apr 07 - 02:28 AM
GUEST,Sue A 09 Mar 07 - 05:26 PM
Sherbs 09 Mar 07 - 04:52 PM
Azizi 09 Mar 07 - 07:56 AM
Azizi 09 Mar 07 - 07:46 AM
Azizi 09 Mar 07 - 07:29 AM
greg stephens 09 Mar 07 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,senewb 09 Mar 07 - 05:53 AM
Andy Jackson 23 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,YearsGoneBy 23 Jan 07 - 11:07 AM
Sorcha 20 Aug 06 - 03:05 PM
Peace 20 Aug 06 - 03:00 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,curious 20 Aug 06 - 02:09 PM
GUEST,Amy 14 Jul 06 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,curious 14 Jul 06 - 01:39 AM
Azizi 11 Jul 06 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,montegue blister 11 Jul 06 - 09:18 AM
Bizibod 05 Jul 06 - 10:12 AM
Azizi 04 Jul 06 - 05:41 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 04 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM
Azizi 04 Jul 06 - 08:44 AM
Mo the caller 04 Jul 06 - 06:04 AM
Azizi 04 Jul 06 - 03:33 AM
Abuwood 04 Jul 06 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,richd 03 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Jul 06 - 12:56 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Jul 06 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,thurg 03 Jul 06 - 10:55 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,thurg 03 Jul 06 - 03:41 AM
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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,the good ship sails on the ally ally ay nurs
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 04:03 AM


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Stephen (from Doncaster, South Yorkshire)
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:00 AM

We had a number of counting rhymes in the 70's.

[1]
We used: -
Eenie meenie minie mo
Catch a tiger/nigger by the toe
When he hollers, let him go
Eenie meenie minie mo.

We mostly said 'tiger', although 'nigger' was known of.
Incedentally, the word 'nigger' wasn't considered any more insulting than 'brummie', 'geordie' or 'scouse' are now.

[2]
Less well known, but more prized was: -
Eenie meenie mackeracker
rare rare dominacker
chicker packer lollipopper
om pom push
(the spelling is arbitrary!)

[3]
Quite popular was: -

Racing car number nine
Losing petrol all the time
How many gallons did it loose?

At this point the person whose 'spud' (i.e. fist) was counted on the word 'loose' would supply a number, say 'seven'. The rhyme was then completed using the supplied number, thus: -

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven
And out you must GO.

[4]
Later, we got lazy and the counting rhymes degenerated to this: -
Girl guide, boy scout, OUT.

[5]
And: -
Ittle ottle,
Shit in a bottle,
Ittle ottle,
OUT.

Nice, eh?


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,roxiraccoon
Date: 18 May 08 - 04:24 PM

We had this one while I was growing up in Fort Devens MA, in the early 80's:

Eanie Meanie Acha Cheanie,
Ah, Boo, Bubblinie,
Acha Chacha, Livaracha,
Out goes Y-O-U and you shall not be it!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM

GUEST,teartse, thanks for sharing that example!

That's quite interesting reading, particularly so in light of the close similarities between that version and the German language version that was posted by Wilfried Schaum.

teartse, I hope that you continuing posting on Mudcat either as a member or as a guest. Membership is free and easy. Just click on the Membership link near the top, upper right hand corner. One of the benefits of joining Mudcat is that you can exchange private electronic messages with other members. I mention that because I'd love to learn more from you about slave-trade-Portuguese-Creole origin of the version in The Netherlands and other subjects, but that would be going off-topic too much in this thread.

Best wishes,

Azizi


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,teartse (from the netherlands)
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 11:45 AM

Especially in the light of the American version with the racist "n-word" readers might find a suggested slave-trade-Portuguese-Creole origin of the version in The Netherlands curiously interesting.

The Dutch version reads (I add a,what I think to be, equivalent in English phonetics as close as it gets, and a translation into Enlish of the no-nonsense lines):

Iene miene mutte      Eena meena mutte   
Tien pond grutten    Teen pond grutte    Ten pounds of groats
Tien pond kaas       Teen pond kaas      Ten pounds of cheese
Iene miene mutte      Eena meena mutte
Is de baas            Is the baas         Is the boss

I read in Wikipedia that according to Frank Arion, a writer from Paramaribo, Surinam,this originates from a song sung by black slaves on St Thomé, an island west of the African west coast,from where the slaves were transported on ships to America. The phonetic similarity is indeed very striking:

Iene miene muito      
Tempo de n'grutta
Tempo de n'kasala
Iene miene muito
Es de baixe.

Iene in that Creole language is a pluralizer. Miene is from the Portuguese word for girl: menina. Muito is the Portuguese word for much, many. Tempo means time. I do not know the origin of n'grutta, according to Frank Arion it means: to make love.Kasala comes from the Portuguese "casar se" which means to mary. Baixa is the Portuguese word for down, below.(Pronunciation of kasala and baixa is kashalla and basha.)

So it means:

Many girls.         
Time to make love,
Time to mary.
Many girls
Down there below.

Note: the male slaves were put on the upper decks, the women below in the lower decks.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM

A German version for counting out:
Eene meene muh - und aus bist du
(- and out are you)

Note: the ee is a flat e like in set, but longer. The single unstressed e is a murmur vowel, like the Hebrew shwa mobile.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM

Having re-read this sentence that I wrote in my last post to this thread, I'd like to change it this way:

...I think you probably wouldn't have for a number of reasons, including the fact that those non-White students would not have taken kindly to the use of that word when they were told {by older students in the know, and/or by adults} what society says it means.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 05:58 PM

I dare say we'd have still used [the "n word"] if we did [know what it meant]; kids are not very pc left to their own devices and at that time there was no general awareness of racism
-Apina

Apina, thanks for the honesty of your post. You described your childhood school as having no non-White students. I wonder if you and your peers would have openly used that "n word" in school if that school had had a number of students who were non-White. I think you probably wouldn't have for a number of reasons, including the fact that those non-White students would not have taken kindly to the use of that word when they were told {by older students in the know, and/or by adults} what it meant.

**

As a matter of record, in my African American neighborhood [in Atlantic City, New Jersey in the 1950s], the eenie meenie rhyme was always recited as "catch a tiger by the toe". I didn't know that it was ever anything different than that. And "catch a tiger by the toe" is the way that I've heard that counting out or choosing It rhyme recited by African American girls & boys in my adopted hometown of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania since I moved here in the late 1960s.

And as an aside, let me say that in the ten years that I've been formally collecting children's rhymes, including taunting rhymes, I've come across very few children's rhymes that refer to race or ethnicity or skin color.

I'm glad that this version of the eenie meenie rhyme-with its use of a derogatory referent-has largely been retired.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Apina
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM

Does anyone remember

The big ship sailed on the alley alley oh
The alley alley oh
The alley alley oh
The big ship sailed on the alley alley oh
On the last day of September

The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
The bottom of the sea
The bottom of the sea
The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
On the last day of September

There are other verses I can't quite remember - 'The Captain said "This will never never do"' was one of them. And I have often in recent times wondered if it was based on a real story of a shipwreck, but haven't managed to locate anything obvious. Our Eeny Meeny, in Birmingham England in the 60/70s was:

Eeny meeny miny mo
Catch a nigger by his toe
If he squeals, let him go
Eeny meeny miny mo

We were a school of 6-10 yr old middle class white kids and if anybody knew what nigger meant, I certainly didn't. I dare say we'd have still used it if we did; kids are not very pc left to their own devices and at that time there was no general awareness of racism. We had our own vocabulary of taunt and our own 'isms' too.

We had two school buses, one of which came past the Monyhull Hall mental hospital (as it then was). Inmates of the hospital were known to us as 'Monnies' (obviously derived from the name of the place) and this was, by extension, applied to kids who came in on that bus. "You're a Monny" rendered in a high-pitched Brummie accent takes me right back... We were little horrors.

Fortunately most kids grow out of it under the civilising influence of parents and teachers and generation by generation we leave it behind us. I hear no hint of it in my daughter's playground, but sadly they still find ways to be cruel to each other.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Melissa
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 06:59 PM

12 year old girl,
does your version go on to say:
(fifty dollars every day)
My mother told me to pick the very best one
and you are not IT?


My classmates pretty much abandoned EenyMeenie when we learned
Inka Binka
Bottle of ink
the cork fell out
and you stink

I don't know what "horse and goggle" means, but that's what I use with my gs troop:
"Ein Zwei Drei...horsengoggle"
At 'horsengoggle' we all put a hand into the circle...count the total number of fingers, and count off from there.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,man aged 25
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:09 AM

I thought that it went:

Eenie Meenie Makerarcker
Air- eye Dominaka
Chicka Packer
Aleraker
um Pum Push OUT!


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Subject: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,a 12 year old girl
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 03:41 PM

honestly i heardd:

iney meanie miny mo chatch a nigger by his to if he hollars make him pay 50 dollars every day


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:55 PM

From Salford in the 1930s, where my mum lived as a girl, and passed on to me. Rendered phonetically, you understand, and four beats to the bar!

Eeny meeny mackeracka
Rare eye dummeracka
Chickeracka rare eye
Om pom push


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:02 PM

I was searching on the net to find out the real words to eenie, meenie, minie, mo etc. and i came across this site.
I am from England and all my life ive thought that it goes..
eenie, meenie, minie, mo catch a pity by it's toe if it squeals let it go. eenie, meenie, minie, mo
i asked some of my friends and the said the same rhyme replacing "pity" with 'robber' 'tigger' 'tiger' and 'fishy'. We then asked another person and they said n****r.

As for playing tag I used to only say 'your it' and that was only 7 years ago.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Jaycey
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 05:57 AM

I know yet another variation of "eena meena", which is this one (guessed spelling!):-

Eena meena mickeracka
Air eye dobinacka
Chickabacka chickabacka
Chinese choo-choo
Air-a-dona chickerona
Alla-balla wobstick
Out goes SHE!
Out goes another one and that is HE!

This was taught to me by my mother, who is now 91 and was brought up in Stockport (she's got a good memory!).

My brother (born 1945) always did "Dip dip dip, my blue ship" when his generation were picking "It", and at my school, we always did "one potato, two potato" (I was born in 1954, and brought up in Oxfordshire).

I also remember lots of other playground games and songs (such as "The big ship sailed on the alley, alley-oh") and skipping songs, using great long washing lines as the ropes, so lots of people could fit in - there were lots of songs which involved getting people in and out of the skipping group. A couple I remember are:-

Granny's in the kitchen
Doing a bit of knitting
IN comes a bogeyman
And pushes her OUT!

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
The next person follow ON!

Do children still play like this today? (I don't have any so I don't know.) Nobody was allowed to stay indoors during 'playtime' in my day, you were pushed outside come rain or shine!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:15 PM

Looks like no ones posted here in a while, but the version I learned as a kid for the flea song went (and I'm just spelling as things were pronounced)

flea
flea fly
flea fly flo
cumula cumula cumula vista
oohhhh no, not la vista
ta vista
eenie meenie mussolini
ooo ah ah,
ah ma-lini
ocha cocha cumoracha
oo ah ah
ish killy oaten boaten
o boe ba ditn dot
odden cotton sssshh

I remember learning it in fourth grade, and I remember the teacher teaching it to us because she said it would help us remember something. But I don't remember what, LOL.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Muttley
Date: 14 May 07 - 02:49 AM

Here's a couple from Oz if they haven't been posted yet. I remeber most of these (actually - ALL of them - - - - sad. I must be getting old(er).

Eeni Meenie macka racka
rare rye dominacka
Chickapop alollipop
Rang pang puss

Usually followed by:

Penny on the water, Tuppence on the sea
Threepence on the whirly-whirly
You're not 'he'

(UK or US kids might say "You're not 'it'")

Another goes

Eenie meenie makka rakka
rear rie damma nakker
rang pang push

Here're a few others:

Eerie oarie ickory am
Queerbie quorby raspberry jam
Filsy folsie Irishman
Tickle em, tackle em; bosh

AND

Intery mintery cuttery corn
Brambly briar and brambly thorn
Wire briar barrel lock
Three geese in a flock
One flew east and one flew west
And one flew over the cuckoo's nest

(which is probably how the bbok and film of that title came to be - a nonsense rhyme and the fact that cuckoos don't build nests)

Ickey ackey horses cackey (poo)
what colour will it be?

(child landed on would nominate a colour - preferably a long one to ensure they didn't get landed on for "it / he" . . . .

Yellow - Y..E..L..L..O..W

Whoever copped the "W" was "it" or "he" for the chasey game.

I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread
He wrapped it up in a ten-bob note and this is what he said:
"Eli eli chickabye chickabye, saw a sausage - in bed!
Went to the other one, got me another one: Drop dead!"

AND FINALLY

I saw Esau sitting on a see-saw; I saw Esau sitting on a gate
I saw Esau sitting on a see-saw; I saw Esau kissing our Kate

Thes, of course were all 'counting rhymes to dtermine who was going to be doing the chasing in the game about to commence and were generally made as complicated as possible in order to prevent rigging the outcome.

I also recall one that seemed to end with "Bumbarumba gosh - Nineteen Hundred and One!" (1901 being the year Australia achieved Federation status and the right to govern itself independent of English veto oe approval).

Muttley

My wasn't that fun!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bugsy
Date: 14 May 07 - 01:27 AM

The one we used to do in the early 50's was:

" I went into a china shop
to buy a loaf of bread
he put me in a pillow case
and this is what he said
eenie meeni macka racka
rairia dominacka
chicka racka lollipoppa
Om pom push."

and the one on "push" got pushed out of the equation,

CHeers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Spiperblaze
Date: 14 May 07 - 12:49 AM

My mother grew up in England and taught us this when we were young in America.... it went something like this

Enee meanie macker racker rare rye dominacker enee weanie wom pom poof chinese choo choo one two three ..a wooly wooly webster out goes he!!!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:28 AM

eeny meeny macka racka dare-da dominaka
chicka-popper
lolli-popper
am bam bush OUT


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Sue A
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:26 PM

Since someone above mentioned Lakeland sheep counting I thought I'd offer you one to twenty in it ... but I hasten to add that not only do shepherds not use this counting system, but even end of 19th century references to it regard it as archaic... so when anyone actually DID use it I don't know. This is the version I know, but there are other variations, and similar versions in Wales, Cornwall and Brittany, I understand:

yan, tyan, tethera, methera, pimp, sethera, lethera, overa, dovera, dick, yan-a-dick, tyan-a-dick, tethera-dick, methera-dick, bumfit, yan-a-bumfit, tyan-a-bumfit, tethera-bumfit, methera-bumfit, giggot.

And yes, in north Cumbria we too said the eeny, meeny, miney, moe rhyme with the n........ word as a counting out rhyme, as well as dip,dip,dip my blue ship (etc) and one potato, two potato (etc). And I've a whole list of other childhood rhymes and games which I noted down, so don't get me started!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Sherbs
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:52 PM

I learned a version of the 'Eeny Meeny rhyme' in school in the '70s on the Gower as a method of counting out. We used the version with the N word, but I don't think any of us actually knew what it meant, we just regarded it as just another nonsense word along with the rest of the rhyme.

We also had the 'one potato' rhyme but it was not used for counting out, it was more like a game in itself.

On another note, this is one that was around much later when I was a teenager and I've no idea where it comes from, it might have just been made up by the people who were chanting it.

I'll have a Degville Duckett
Duck it up and down
Bon Jovi, Cherry on a stick
I'll have a dry martini
shaken not stirred in a bidet
with a slice of lemon and two veg


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:56 AM

Okay, rereading that shake shake shake rhyme, there is a version of eenie meenie....

Calgon, take me away!!!

[now that line has nothing to do with eenie meenie. But some people may remember it from a tv commercial. See http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1340919 for more information about the popular use of that line.

I think that "Calgon, take me away" is also mentioned in this Mudcat thread: detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=1963880 Jingles you remember.

But maybe not since it's not a jingle.

Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to go off topic then, and now and well.. It's the Sagittarian in me.

Oops, I was about to do it again.

I'm outa here.

:o)

Enjoy!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:46 AM

Hmmm. Well that last rhyme I posted didn't have a version of "eenie meenie" or "kiss a girl behind the magazine". Sorry 'bout that.

Lemme try again with three other examples that I don't think I posted here yet.

First, here's the version of the eenie meenie rhyme I recited as a child in Atlantic City, New Jersey {1950s}

Eenie Meenie
Thumableenie
Oosh Ah Umbaleenie
Ahsie Mashie
Kokalaashie
I love you.

-snip-

Here's an example of an eenie meenie rhyme that I collected from an African American woman who lives in Pittsburgh:

Eenie Meenie Justaleanie
Eenie Meanie Justa Leanie
Ooca Acla Trackalacka, I love you.
Take a peach, Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum.
Teacher, Teacher, Dummy Dum
Gimme back my bubble gum.
Saw you with your boyfriend last night.
How do you know?
I was peekin' through the keyhold.
NOSY
Wash them dishes
LAZY
Jump out the window
CRAZY
Peaches on the tree, Bananas on the floor
Jump back baby. I Don't Love You No More!
- Donetta A. {Pittsburgh, PA 1984} http://www.cocojams.com/handclap_rhymes_example_0104.htm

-anip-

Also here's another rhyme that I think can be claimed by the 'eenie meenie miney mo' family, at least as a distant cousin:

itsy bitsy teeny witsy ew oh to0-ba-leeny outsy whatsy sellahawts say the magic words.. i have a stick of chewing gum and if you want the other half.. this is what you say.. amen. amen. amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.. nothnig to do.. along comes a little baby goochy gochy goo..

i learned this as when i was litte.
posted by brrittannee at March 25, 2005 http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:29 AM

Hopefully senewb will respond to your post greg. However, if you're talking about the second version of that rhyme that senewb shared, in my informal but relatively constant collection of rhymes over the Internet {from 2000 to date}m I've found a number of versions of those lines. Here's an example from http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

candy apple on a stick
makes my heart go 3,4 to 6
not because your dirrty
not because your clean just because
you kissed a boy behind
the magazine
hey girls wanna have some fun
here come(_name_) with his pants undone
he can wobble he can do the twist
but most of all he can kiss kiss kiss
now close your eyes and count to ten if you miss u mary him!
-posted by Lil gUm cHeweR at April 28, 2004

-snip-


Since the mid 1980s, I've been alert to children's rhymes performed by children {mostly Black children} in the Pittsburgh area.
I've heard "eenie meenie" [with the "catch a tiger by the toe" and the "ensty minsty miney mo" ending] used as a counting out rhyme. But I haven't [yet] heard that candy apple on a stick rhyme. However, it may indeed be recited here.

I've collected that 'apple on a stick' and 'kiss a boy behind a magazine' verse from two Pittsburgh adults who grew up in other US cities. And I found this version of all three of those rhymes in a book on Black American children's rhymes from Houston, Texas
Barbara Michels & Bettye White, "Apples On A Stick"
(Coward-McCann, New York, 1983, p. 17)


Shake, shake, shake
Eeny meany
That's a queeny
Ooh ba Thumblina
Ah cha ca che Liberace
Oh baby I love you
Yes I do
Take a peach
Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum
No peach
No plum
Just a piece of bubble gum
Ooshe ahshe
Ooshe ahshe
I want a piece of pie
The pie too sweet
I want a piece of meat
The meat too tough
I want to ride the bus
The bus too full
I want to ride the bull
The bull's too black
I want my money back
The money's too green
I want a diamond ring.

-snip-

Btw, the authors didn't note which category of rhyme this is.
I think it's either handclap rhyme or a jump rope rhyme.

Fwiw, it appears that a number of jumprope rhymes have become handclap rhymes and not vice versa. There's various reasons why jumping rope appears to be done less often. Imo, one key reason is that school teachers and other staff no longer provide jumpropes for girls to play with during school recess. Another key reason is that the clothes dryer has made obsolete the practice of hanging clothes outside on lines to dry. This removed children's access to those 'clothes lines' which were a 'free' source of jump ropes.

My opinion on those fake jump ropes they sell at stores nowadays-
"Bah Humbug!"


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 06:29 AM

Very unusual version,senewb. Where are we talking about?


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,senewb
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 05:53 AM

About 10 years ago when I was in school...

we used the enney meany miney mo - tiger version...but we also used

enney meany boocha keeny
be bo boperinni
acha cacha boomeracha
out goes y o u

(at this point you could continue if you didnt want that person to go out...)

not because youre dirty
not because youre clean
just because you kissed the boy
behind the magazine


... looking back, it's kinda weird. Has anyone ever heard or seen a version like this?


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

From my Irish, but a long time in Englad, mother, when I was but a child.

eeni meenie macaraca rare oh
Domino,
hallapaca doodiaca
him pim flesh


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,YearsGoneBy
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:07 AM

I learned a similar version of this from an 8 yr.old friend whose parents were from the U.K., some 30 odd years ago.We used it as a secret count ...I couldn't tell you if that was it's original use or not,but it goes like this (spelling unknown)
   Eeny meeny macker racker
   Rare aye domma racker
   Ricker racker
   Romma racker
   Rom pom poosh.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:05 PM

I grew up in south central Kansas. The N word was used, except in our house...we used monkey.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:00 PM

History of eeny meeny


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM

Guest;Curious.

It appears from the linked article that the Brewers using this for advertising fully accepted the accusation that the original rhyme had (what would now be considered) racist overtones.
Bob Sullivan, vice president and chief marketing officer with Boulevard Brewing, said no one had complained about the beer billboard. "It's a choice campaign," he said.

"It has nothing to do with race, color or creed," Sullivan said. "You would be the first person who's brought that to our attention."


Sullivan thinks that time and the wording change in the rhyme have been enough to disassociate it from its racist past. He said it would be "a huge stretch" now to make the connection.


CHEERS
Nigel


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,curious
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:09 PM

Amy, here's a link to the newspaper article that spawned my question:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15016407.htm

It certainly caused a stir. Despite disagreeing (not publicly) with the columnist, the company took down the billboard in question immediately after the article was printed.

I am most curious about the line where he quotes the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes.

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,Amy
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 05:18 AM

"(as the accuser claimed)"
I am bewildered as to what is meant by the above remark Guest:Curious.
Would you mind making yourself clearer on this point?
Thank you in advance for a response.
Amy


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,curious
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 01:39 AM

Does anyone know of a reliable source that could help me find the original version of the "eeny meeny" rhyme? A mini-scandal erupted near my hometown (accusing a company of racism for putting "eenie meenie minie moe" on a billboard) and I'm skeptical that the 'n-word' was a part of the rhyme's first occurance (as the accuser claimed).

Thanks for any suggestions and/or help!

The Midwestern US


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 05:58 PM

GUEST,montegue blister.

Thanks for posting the link to your website. I found it to be quite interesting, though I personally didn't like the slave game.
But different strokes for different strokes.

If you haven't done so, check out the schoolyard games thread of the Octoblog website for the posted examples of children's games. The URL is:
http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

Btw, I hope you consider joining Mudcat! Membership is free and easy..

Best wishes!

Azizi


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,montegue blister
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 09:18 AM

A fascinating thread indeed. I write a blog detailing archaic / unusual childrens games and party games. I do cover counting out rhymes occasionally. I thought I knew most of them - but i've learnt a lot of new ones in this thread.


If you want to read my blog... it is here

http://strange-games.blogspot.com/



My favourite , Victorian counting out rhyme is here
http://strange-games.blogspot.com/2006/05/counting-out-rhymes-no3.html


chin chin,

Montegue Blister


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bizibod
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:12 AM

Eeny, meeny ,mackeracka rare-ride,dominicker-chicker-packer rom-pom-push,and O- U- T spells OUT!!!

Essamany sallamany oowalla wallamany ,
Essamany sallamany oowalla wah,
Bo biddly dicken docken,
Bo-bo be dicken docken sshhhhh!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 05:41 PM

How are you is one of the phrase I remember from my high school Spanish. It's "Como estas?" {or "Como esta?"}.

And I believe that you're correct that "Hasta la vista" is a colloquial expression that means "Goodbye {actually, it really means something like "until I see you again".

I wonder when this "como la vista" [or something like it} rhyme became popular and whether its source was not just a colloquial Spanish expression but a recorded Spanish song.

A number of verses in contemporary children's rhymes have their origins in titles, refrains and/or lyrics of R&B songs.

Here's two of them:

We Will Rock You
we will we will rock you (small pause) we will we will rock you mud on you face a big disgrace kicking your can all over the place singing we will we will rock you down shake you up like a volcano will erupt buckle your seatbelt step on the gas were gonna kick you in your ask me once ask me twice everybody we will we will rock you (small pause) we will we will rock you
{while singing stomp one foot then the other then clap throughout the whole song}
-hi; 6/29/06
source: http://www.cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm

****

1, 2, 3 Hit It! {Brickwall Waterfall}
1, 2, 3,
HIT IT!
that's the way
uh huh uh huh
i like it
uh huh uh huh
that's the way
uh huh uh huh
i like it
uh huh uh huh
peace. punch
captain crunch.
brick wall. waterfall.
girl you think you know it all?
you don't! i do!
so poof with the attitude.
loser loser with a twist
elbow elbow wrist wrist.
wipe a tear. blow a kiss.
kiss this.
hunnie u aint got none of this.
-reposted on 6/21/2005 from http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php/
posted by k to the c on June 20, 2006

[with permission of that blog's members]


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM

I don't speak Spanish either, but I remember hearing it at school when I was a kid. Doesn't it mean "How are you?" ? I also remember another phrase, also from school, which was "Hasta la vista". (And Arnold S used it in - what was it? - Terminator? "Hasta la vista, baby") so I always assumed it was some form of Goodbye. If I've got it wrong, will any Spanish-speakers please jump in and correct me!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:44 AM

Hello, Mo! What do ya know? [I couldn't resist that. And I'm not even sure if your name is pronounced as though it rhymes with know or row or go or foe-though I doubt that we would ever be that last one].

You asked about the meaning of "como la vista?. I had 5 years of Spanish in another life [one class per year in my 4 years of high school & 1 class in my first year of college]. Unfortunately, I have not had occassion to speak Spanish since than nor do I read it. But in spite of all of that, certain words have stuck with me. Like "Hola! [hello] and "amigo/a" [friend].

I recognize the words 'com' and 'la' and 'vista' as Spanish words, but can't say that I remember the phrase 'como la vista' from Spanish language classes. Nor did I find that phrase on any Spanish/English site {though I admit I only looked at a few Spanish/English translation sites}.

But-given the individual meaning of these words*, my guess is that the "Como la vista" phrase in that children's rhyme anyway means something like the African American colloquialism "What's happenin?" And I think that the answer in the children's rhyme "no [no no no no] la vista" means "nothin's happenin".

What's happenin'" has the same or similar meaning as "How's things" [What do you see?=What's goin on?]

* the Spanish/English website http://www.freedict.com/onldict/spa.html has these meanings for "como" and vista" ["la" means 'the' for feminine words]:

como- as, how, like, such as

vista- appearance, aspect

****

Hopefully, some Mudcat member or guest who speaks [everyday] Spanish or reads [everyday] Spanish will confirm or correct my [uneducated] guess about this phrase.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 06:04 AM

Azizi, you said 'For instance, was "beestay" originally "como la vista"?'
What does that mean, please.

As for Cooties or Nits, well they may seem a non-threatening part of everyday life now but they were a matter of deep shame and dread in my youth (among parents as well as children). Do you remember "Nitty Norah" or as the teachers called her the "Head Nurse".


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:33 AM

I apologize for the typos in my previous post to this thread. Those typos were the result of a 'rush to post' when I was supposed to be off to a non-cyperspace function. I shoulda waited till I had more time to post to this thread...like now.

Bonnie, and others, one of my favorite websites which contains examples of contemporary children's rhymes from children is http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

Here are four examples of children's rhymes from that blog:

"I have a few songs I always did with my friends. One was "The Space Goes", the other was "Down by the banks". "The Space Goes" sounds something like this:
The Space goes
bobo, skee waten taten
ah ah, ah ah boom boom boom
mini mini waten, bobo skee waten,
bobo, skee waten freeze!
::at freeze the players would freeze and whoever moved first lost::"
-posted by contortme at September 16, 2003

-snip-

"What about the song that goes like this..

Flea.. Flea fly.. Flea Fly Flow. Ama lama kuma lama kuma la vista, Oh oh oh oh not the vista vista, issilini dissilini Oo aa aa malini, akaraka, cukara ich bam boom, ip diddly ope en bope why not shout and bout........ssssssss.... Bang!

Anybody else know this?..."
-posted by Danny at October 1, 2003

-snip-

"I remember doing some kind of hand game where you say

Bo Bo Ce ot and tot and nana I am a Boom Boom
Itty bitty out and tot bobo ce ot and tot
Bobo ce ot and tot...BOOM

I have no idea what it means however LOL."
-posted by Tabitha at February 12, 2005

-snip-

[and here's an example that I think is from another 'family' of children's rhymes]:

I know one...


its goes


TIC-TAC-TOE
GIVE ME AN X GIVE ME AN O
GIVE ME A THREE IN A ROW
ROCK PAPER SCISSORS SHOOT ( at this part u play rock paper scissors shoot)
-posted by Kim at May 7, 2006

****

Btw, this website also contains examples of contemporary children's rhymes from children, youth, and adults:
http://www.cocojams.com/

;o))


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Abuwood
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:29 AM

Mum's rhyme 1920's Yorkshire was

Rah Rah chicker rah
Chicker rah rhoney
pony ping pang piney
ala kala witchwood
ching chang choo

We used one potato and eeny meeny, with the N word (not knowing what it meant).

My kids did lots of clapping rhymes

A sailor went to sea sea sea
to see what he could see see see
but all thet he could see see see
was the bottom of the deep blue sea sea sea....

There are lots of other verses to this, each having different actions

You've got me thinking now....


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,richd
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM

Here's one from Cyfathfa Juniors and Brecon Road Infants School in Merthyr Thdfil.
Eeni meanii mackaraka
Day Die dominaker
Cheeky Lacker
Lolly Popper
Out goes one,
Out goes Two,
Out goes another one
and out Goes you!

And here's dum-dum-daro, which is sung, not said and is often a clapping game.

Dum Dum Dare-o
see see al la lero,
Munney munney Aker
Ooka-ba ooka-ba ookaba SPLIT!


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 12:56 PM

The only other thought to add is: Can anyone identify rhymes containing real-life figures WHO WERE STILL AT LARGE, AND A THREAT at the time they entered play-folklore? Once someone is safely dead it modifies their character in a sense, because they can no longer actually harm you; whereas Aids and terrorists are still around and functioning now. (I wonder how much impact this has on today's kids, or if they truly realise the implications?) I grew up during the red scare when the media never seemed to stop talking about The Impending Bomb, yet I don't remember Russians or The Commies taking over the bad-guy role in our playground rhymes & games. It was still abstractions like cooties and bogeymen, or fictional monsters like Frankenstein.   

I know it's much harder to determine the timeline factor because it requires knowledge of dates and history. Guy Fawkes presumably did not become familiar to the public until after he was captured; but were there any living, still-dangerous villains who played the fear-figure in kids' popular culture? Any outlaws of the old west or robbers on the King's highway?


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:05 AM

Good point, Thurg. I didn't grow up in Britain but I'm SURE there are some Guy Fawkes schoolyard chants. And was there a Dick Turpin one, or is that a fanciful notion?

PS: Nobody in my school really knew what cooties were either. Did you have that "Cootie" game when you were a little kid, where you had to assemble a giant plastic Cootie bit by bit, and the first one to finish it won? Guess THAT'S what they look like...   ;-)


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:55 AM

I'm more scared of little bugs that think they can live with me.

Where I grew up, it was not someone was "the Cootie"; it was so-and-so HAD the cootieS. Seems to me that this originated in that particularly nasty brand of schoolyard bullying in which the whole group turns on some poor kid and ridicules him/her because of perceived shortcomings in his/her family background. By my day, I don't think any kids (in my school) actually knew what cooties were; "So-and-so has the cooties!" had become a pretty innocuous taunt.

I don't have any examples off the top of my non-infested head, but I think you could find examples of real-live bogey-men referenced in children's games from the past. Anyone know of any?

It used to be accepted wisdom that Ring Around the Rosy was about the plague, but apparently that notion has been debunked ...


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM

Little bugs are a non-threatening part of everyday life. There's no horror element to them. The point I was making was that in the old days the "It" that the other kids ran away or hid from was a fairly anodyne, non-specific character that was never going to kill anyone. Now "It" seems to have mutated and crossed the line into the realistic world.

Little bugs I can live with. Those other things mentioned above scare the daylights out of me.


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Subject: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 03:41 AM

Yeah, but cooties are little bugs ...


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