Help: Percussion for a one person act

Subject: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:05 AM

I perform solo acoustic with just a guitar. Recently I've really felt like I wanted to add some percussion to some songs, but I'm not sure what the best option would be. I'd like something that would give a "heartbeat" sound - something like a djembe (think "Twa Corbies" by Old Blind Dogs, for example). I don't want a programmable electronic setup because I want to control things with my foot. The idea is just taking shape in my mind, and I wanted to know if anybody else has done something like that. I could rig up something with a small bass drum, perhaps, and a foot pedal, or there may be an electronic device I could use with foot controls?? Has anybody successfully tried something like that?

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: mack/misophist
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:25 AM

A suggestion - feet. Years ago I heard a Canadian fiddler who did some amazing stuff with his feet while he played. If you can work it in, the sound of dancing feet can go well.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: MMario
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:28 AM

I saw a little rig the other day with a tambourine that was foot operated.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:39 AM

I don't think I could manage with just feet alone! I've searched through sites like "Musician's Friend" and havent' found anything that seemed like what I wanted. I'm going to go to some local music shops and look around but I may have to rig up something. I'd need a much more "bass" sound than a tambourine, though.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 May 02 - 11:49 AM

Ordinary drum kit pedal operated bass drum is a standard part of the one(wo)man band outfit. Formore possibilities, see if you can find Pete Moser in Morecambe, I'm sure he's got a website or something. he runs a oneman band festival and got in the Guiness Book of Records, I believe, for playig the maximum number of instruments at once. Mind you, I reckon Pete was cheating a bit, a lot of them were one big bunch of little bells.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: sophocleese
Date: 01 May 02 - 12:05 PM

I have seen someone using a bass drum pedal against something that looked like a wooden box. It made a deep boomy noise. Maybe you could get a bass drum pedal and experiment against any likely looking object in your house.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: SharonA
Date: 01 May 02 - 12:32 PM

I have a friend who does this very thing, and he has several different devices that he brings to his gigs, and uses one or two per song: all contraptions with foot pedals, some have mallets that strike a drum or a wooden block, and another operates a cymbal. He's quite interesting to watch, especially because he also plays lefthanded on a right-handed guitar (with the resultant creative chording). One thing that's always puzzled me, though: I can't figure out why he has a right-handed cutaway!!

Another acquaintance who used to come to my open-mike nights back when I hosted 'em would actually attach things to himself, like a tambourine strapped to his leg or a cymbal under his shoe. Much more awkward and much less professional-looking, IMO, but it worked for him!

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 01 May 02 - 12:37 PM

Heh heh - I don't want to look like the caricature of the "one man band" with things strapped all over me ! Good to learn that other people are rigging up contraptions like that. Best option might be to find someone to play percussion for me but then again - gadgets are sometimes easier to manage than partners!

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 01 May 02 - 02:07 PM

Just passing through. John Hartford was a great one for keeping a rhythmic thing happening with his feet on a board while playing fiddle, banjo, guitar, or whatever else struck his fancy. I had the privilege of seeing him in performance twice, and it was a great experience. Wouldn't want to try it myself, though -- it looked tricky, and I'm sure it took a lot of practice.

However, I have also heard of an electronic device for sale that sounds a lot like what you're looking for. I don't remember what it's called ("Bass Board," maybe?), but it's basically a wooden board with a piezo transducer embedded in it, and a preamp, and you tap your foot on it as you play. It reportedly sounds almost like you have a bass playing with you; the sound is low-pitched enough that, in conjunction with your guitar (or other hand-played instrument), it fools the ear into thinking it's playing the proper bass note along with the rhythmic pulse. If I remember the name, I'll post a followup message. I know it's advertised in some of the acoustic music magazines, and I read a review of it in one that said it does pretty much what the manufacturer claims (I don't put a lot of trust in magazine reviews of music gear, but I thought it was worth passing this along anyway). Good luck finding what you're looking for, whether this is it or not. -- WS

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 01 May 02 - 02:13 PM

Followup message: I meant to say also that, if you found out that this kind of thing would work for you, I wouldn't be surprised if you could build one yourself pretty inexpensively. Get a board (possibly elevate the front edge of it so it's angled towards you and the "soundboard" can resonate more freely), temporarily mount a stick-on piezo pickup on it, and start experimenting with the placement until you find one that pleases you. I don't think it's really any more complicated than that.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: SharonA
Date: 01 May 02 - 02:48 PM

Hmmm... perhaps, along with the home-built "soundboard" set-up Whistle Stop mentions, you might consider wearing tap shoes or clogging shoes for an extra percussive effect.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 01 May 02 - 02:56 PM

I appreciate all the suggestions. That's one thing I'll have to decide - electronic or do I rig something up that's totally acoustic.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,Helen, on hubby's computer
Date: 01 May 02 - 03:39 PM

This isn't quite what you are looking for, but Whistle Stop's suggestion reminded me of it and the simple mechanism might be useful.

Years ago I saw two young German people playing Irish music on tin whistles, here in Oz. The man was operating a device with his foot, in time to the music, which had a wooden puppet-like person on it which danced in time to the music. I can't remember if it made a noise intended to go with the music, or whether it just made clacking sounds because of the puppets movements. It looked very effective, and it was based on a very simple pedal board idea.

Once before in a Mudcat thread (a long time ago) when I mentioned this device someone else gave it a name. I've forgotten what it was called.

Helen

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,Mike Billo
Date: 01 May 02 - 09:35 PM

The device is called a limberjack.

Also worth mentioning, is that the greatest one-man band of all time, Jesse Fuller, played a foot operated bass instrument called a footadella with one foot and played a high hat with the other.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 01 May 02 - 10:01 PM

The suggestions here about using your feet are difficult, but do-able. I have seen a man hold his didjreedoo with his feet, do the whole circular breathing thing, and play his doumbek with his hands. I, for sure, do not have the coordination for all of this, but he proves that it is within the possible. Perhaps you could pound out a basic rhythm on some sort of drum with your feet (bass comes to mind) whilst playing guitar with the upper half?

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 May 02 - 01:25 AM

Thirty years ago I was intrigued by the ingenious rhythem solution used by John Hartford while he played banjo, mandolin, and fiddle.

He had taped a small (quarter size) cheap (plastic) microphone by the leg of his chair in an intimate (120 max) pub setting. The tapping of his foot on the floor was carried through a basic (bare bones) sound system, the proximity (of his foot) to the mic determined the volume of the beat. It was the natural foot tapping of the folk musician and the one Two three Four were distinct and totally under the musician's control.

Have FUN and good LUCK.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Hrothgar
Date: 02 May 02 - 04:07 AM

You can be a musician OR a drummer. Make your decision.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Hamish
Date: 02 May 02 - 04:27 AM

Yeah - standard blues equipment is the piece of wood with pick up as above. Chris Smither and Jackie Mc Auley bith use it, and, if you're old enough and British, Jerry Wossisname in Mungo Jerry used to do it, too. ("In the Summertime, when the weather is high...").

I've often reckoned on a high-hat pedal with either high-hat cymbals and/or a tambourine...?

Feet - as per French Canadain bands - are good. Check out the awesome feet of the mandolin player in La Bottine Souriante must be the best. He does a solo feet bit during gigs where the audience are fully participating, while he plays feet and fols about a bit, reads the newspaper, whatever. Great fun and extraordinarily musical!!! Chris Wood (fiddle) and Pete Coe (guitar, conertina etc) are two Brits who regularly play feet accompaniment effectively. Most sit, but Pete stands and pretty much dances his way through stuff.

But a bass pedal with almost anything attached must be worth trying - wood block, cow-bell, bodhran...

I saw a guy hold a box of Tic-tacs on his strumming hand once. Not too great...

Oh, and I stuck some kid's bells in the laces of my shoes for a Christmas song with corny sleigh-bells (yes - it was tongue-in-cheek, before you ask!) but it worked pretty well (imho)

I did look for a midi controller set of foot pedals kinda like organ pedals a few years ago, but there didn't seem to be anything available for less than £££lots.

Post back here when you've sorted something out - I'd like to hear how you get on.

Hamish

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:45 AM

I appreciate all the suggestions. The idea has taken root in my mind and there's no doubt I'm going to be doing some experimenting! I was kind of hoping to have some suggestions to go by from others who have done this so I could avoid mistakes that cost money. What I'm thinking of is getting a Doubek. I like the sound of it and even if I don't find a way to set it up with a foot pedal control I can play it along with some songs. I've decided against a bodhran - I want a different sound. Then I think I'll start experimenting with bass drum pedals to see if I can attach one and operate the doubek with my feet. The board idea is interesting, too. You could probably put taps or something on your shoes and change the sound to give some variety. I'll certainly let everybody know how my experiments turn out. Meanwhile if anybody has more ideas.....

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Grab
Date: 02 May 02 - 10:18 AM

Listen to old John Lee Hooker recordings - he's famous for his foot-tapping. I don't believe the piezo pickup is essential, all you need is a wooden floor and a hard-soled shoe, or a wooden block if you've not got a wooden floor.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 02 May 02 - 03:05 PM

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is using your guitar as a percussive surface. I've seen some solo singers do wonders with a thumb or palm "whack" at various places on the top and sides, incorporating it with nearly continuous strumming and/or picking. You can get a variety of tones depending on where you thump.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 02 May 02 - 03:23 PM

I have done this and it does work. I do "The Battle of Harlaw" striking the guitar the entire time. I strike the strings, which gives a sense of the chord changes, as well. I was pleased with the result! It works especially well if you turn the bass up. Come to think of it I "knock" on the guitar in some songs, such as "Reilly' Daughter". But - I want to try something new! I'm not skilled enough to really knock out a beat on the guitar and play it too - although you're right, some folks can.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:01 PM

Okay, here are the results of my experiment. The good news - a board does work, sort of. By experimenting with different types of boards and surfaces and turning up the bass level of that channel(I just put the mike very close to it as I tapped and stomped) I was able to get some very effective percussion. BUT...I thought it wouldn't be too difficult because you naturally tap your feet to the rythym of the song. Well, it's entirely different when you're actually trying to use your foot tapping to create an acceptable beat while you sing and play. It's very distracting and TIRING believe it or not, especially with a fast song. You have to pay attention to how hard you tap, where your foot is, and you can't skip beats. I would imagine that using a bass pedal would present similar problems. I think it CAN be done but it would require a lot of practice and I think I'd rather spend that time learning new songs and working on my guitar playing (which needs it!) rather than foot tapping. Anyway now I see why more people don't do it! I might buy a small drum, though, just for fun.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:27 PM

Pardon me, Hrothgar? "You can be a musician OR a drummer"?

Since when did rhythm become some completely separate entity from "music"? The best drummer I know is a superb guitarist. I attribute his ability with the bodhran *to* his knowledge of the music through his being adept at many instruments. There *is* no music without rhythm. Rhythm is the heartbeat of every song/tune. It may be a highly intricate rhythm on a tablah, it may be a regular 4/4 beat tapped out by a musicians foot, or it may be the organic rhythm a solo singer sets for his or her delivery of a piece. But it's there.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,jonesey
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:59 PM

Relax Celtic Soul that's an old musicians joke...I think he was kidding.

Hi Maryrrf, I've used a bass drum and a hi-hat to good effect. It would be much easier to use a piezo 'bass trigger' foot pedal along with an acoustic hi-hat. Have taken a thin piece of paper and woven it through my strings down near the saddle to get a 'steel drum' effect for certain songs. Don't try to use it seriously, though because people will laugh as soon as they hear it. You may be right, ultimately improving your guitar chops and tapping your foot may be all you need.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 02 May 02 - 10:10 PM

Funny, Jonesey...*I'm* an old musician, and I've never heard that one.

Time for my nap...Where's my SOUP?!?! ;D

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 03 May 02 - 09:31 AM

What's a "high hat"?

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: GUEST,Mike Billo
Date: 03 May 02 - 09:41 AM

A high hat is the two cymbals linked togther with a spring mechanism that tap together when operated by the high hat pedal. It can usually be seen as the furthest item on the right while facing a right-handed drummer.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 May 02 - 09:58 AM

Celtic Soul: A drummer is a person who likes hanging out with musicians (Very Ancient Joke No7814). But as you say IT'S NOT FUNNY

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Hrothgar
Date: 03 May 02 - 07:02 PM

Should I really stir things up by saying I didn't want to wond anybody's sensibilities, but I didn't know drummers had them?

It's just that I'm battle-scarred from encounters with the feral drummers at Woodford Folk Festival. They work on the principle that it's noise that counts. Rhythm is an accident.

Some of them were probably born because their parents didn't use the rhythm method successfully...

:-))

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 03 May 02 - 10:59 PM

Hrothgar...you have a valid point.

Why is it that, when a person doesn't want to put the time and energy into learning an instrument, they go and buy a drum? Yeesh.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Troll
Date: 04 May 02 - 02:46 AM

I went the other way. After playing guitar (and other stuff) for almost 50 years, I've started learning drums. It's FUN! AND, I already know all the jokes so I can hit 'em with the punch line when they start the joke.
As to the subject at hand, a 16 or 18 in. floor tom makes a good bass. You have to add a flange to mount a pedal though and legs are handy to keep it from sliding around. A high hat with a tamborine attachment works well. It is a bit of a devil to coordinate all of this with a guitar and voice but it can be done. If you need and help with design, PM me.

troll

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Maryrrf
Date: 04 May 02 - 09:23 PM

Thanks, Troll. I have put the idea on a back burner for the moment after I realized just how difficult it was to coordinate everything with singing and playing guitar. I'd rather just practice my picking for now!

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 May 02 - 03:06 AM

Even better - put the drum on the back burner.

Make sure it's turned up high.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Tweed
Date: 05 May 02 - 08:19 AM

Maryrrf,have you ever heard of a Richard Johnston? He plays hill country style blues and is probably the best one man band on the planet. He uses a bass drum, vertical mounted kick-operated snare and a high-hat in addition to either playing a double broomstick-necked diddley bow or his resonator. As Boberdz has said before, "He's busier than a one legged man in an ass-kicking contest", but the effect is extraordinary to see or hear. There's a pic and soundclips of this set-up HERE.

Also, a friend of mine in Indiana became somewhat incensed after watching a film of Son House doing a gig on what looked like a TV studio boat dock. Son kept time with his foot on the boards and Marvin wanted that sound, so he built a mini stage out of cedar boards. It stands about 6" high and is perhaps 3' wide and 4' long (just big enough for yer chair and a mic stand). He cut a sound hole in the front for a mic if needed and varnished the whole thing. There's wheels on one end so that when stood up you can put your guitar, mic stand etc. in the open underside and wheel the works out to the van or whatever. Anyhow it works and sounds great and is completely acoustic. I expect that a person could mebbe make a smaller,flatter version of this with a piezo inside, but you wouldn't be able to use it as an equipment dolly of course;~)

O, here's a pic of Richard in full swing. He was an opening act at the Handy awards last year and some of you may have seen him on PBS when they televised the show.

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 May 02 - 11:52 AM

After my experiment I have the utmost respect for one man bands! I'm not very coordinated to begin with and it takes a lot of coordination and practice - I could tell that the minute I tried it!

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: Willie-O
Date: 05 May 02 - 12:45 PM

Maryrrf, I think you've already got a good notion of this: one thing about really good guitar players, they almost all have a style which well it may be melodic, is alsopercussive. (Listen to Rick Fielding! Listen to Ani DiFranco! Look at my poor guitar which they both beat up on! -not a criticism, it was Rick's guitar then.)

Either in the way the strings are attacked--the angle and snap of the right-hand technique--or various ways of tapping on the body of the guitar.

About Battle of Harlaw (highly rhythmic piece), do you mean you're slapping the strings with your right hand open? That's one way.

Another cheap, nasty but surprisingly effective trick is the acoustic guitar snare drum (try it for an intro, or to scare em all in a jam session): pull the low E string over the A string at the 10th fret or so, fret them together and hit both strings at once with a flatpick. Genuine rattling sound.

But don't give up entirely on the footboard idea...just remember, the best advice to give yourself as your own percussionist is the same advice given to anyone else trying to be your percussionist: "Just keep the beat, don't mess around!"

W-O

Subject: RE: Help: Percussion for a one person act
From: RolyH
Date: 05 May 02 - 01:15 PM

Duster Bennett (UK blues,late 60's) used high hat and bass drum to pretty good effect.