BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 04 May 02 - 01:05 PM

I'm not picking on Americans, if I am then I'm sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 04 May 02 - 12:38 PM

Greyeyes, It has nothing to do with "picking on Americans", George Bush, for better or for worse, is the [God help us] the leader of the mighty US, and it begs the question, how does the US with all of it`s great seats of learning come up with this inadequate man?.

I cannot imagine Bill Clinton being so dumb as to ask where a country in the UK is located. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Greyeyes
Date: 04 May 02 - 10:33 AM

Why pick on Americans? There are many people in England who couldn't point to Wales on a map.

An English person once crashed out of Who Wants to be a Millionaire because he didn't know which English county was bordered by only one other county (and he took 50/50, so only had 2 to chose from). It seems obvious to me, but I'm a southerner, if you asked me a question about counties bordering Northumberland I wouldn't have a clue.

Many people in Wiltshire don't know what their own county town is (Trowbridge). And owning a passport doesn't make you a fount of knowledge. A friend of mine recently exchanged £300 into pesetas before going skiing in the French Alps.

Ignorance is not the exclusive preserve of Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 04 May 02 - 08:39 AM

I'd say that polling the 'Cat is not a fair assessment of US knowledge. Folks here are, on average, a little more world savvy than your average garden variety US citizen.

To drive the point home, I have a friend...and he's fairly intelligent, and fairly knowledgable about world affairs...who said the following after the war in the gulf began in the 80's: "They're bombing Jerusalem...and Israel too". I had to inform him that Jerusalem was a city, not a country.

This same person thought that Baltimore was the Capital of Maryland. In actuality, it is Annapolis. This may seem obscure information to most, but he *lives* in Maryland...one would think he'd know.

Geography just isn't everyones bag, I suppose...especially when you live in a country where it takes you 4 days to cross by car.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 04 May 02 - 06:08 AM

Leenia, No excuse for Bush, Charlotte Church diction was perfect. Ard Mhacha

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: CapriUni
Date: 04 May 02 - 12:33 AM

Burl wrote:

face it, don't most English people who have never been to America think of New York as Manhattan?

Sometimes, I think most people from New Jersey think of New York as Manhattan!

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 May 02 - 08:18 PM

To Owain (quite a few posts back): if you are still reading this - I love your song! You have a real flair for rhymes. I have copied it and plan to perform it at a Welsh-American party soon.

As for Bush, I'm not a fan. But keep in mind that the guy has a lot on his mind, he probably doesn't get much sleep, and he probably couldn't understand Charlotte Church too well.

I have noticed many times that I will slow down or speak especially clearly so that Brits understand me, but they rarely seem to return the favor.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 May 02 - 08:15 PM

Over here, the speed limit depends on whether there are any damn speed cameras on the section of road or not ;-)

Oen thing over here I wish is that road maps gave a better idea as to how good a road is. A Welsh example would be the A470 which on my map is marked as a trunk (main) route. It runs from Llandudno to Cardiff. I only know (or knew it could have changes) the North part of the road and I know it can be a nigthmare particulary in the silly season where you frequently get stuck behind people driving at 30mph and appearing to care more for the scenery than the road itself...

I wonder what the quickest route is from Llandudno to Cardiff. A55, M56, M6, M5, M4? but the route to Wrexham and then to Shrewsbury is good these days so A55, A525, A5, M54, M6, M5, M4... or what is the A49 like...?

Anyway, Pip will be in Cardiff a week Sunday and travelling by coach from Norwich and visiting the new stadium...

Jon (hoping Norwich win the playoffs)

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 02 - 07:08 PM

On most of the Interstate (Federal) highways, the speed limit is 65 mph, sometimes higher, it depends on the State.

Tam, if I lived in a country from which I could easily travel to other countries, I certainly would have a passport. As others have pointed out, the US is vast, involving a lot more than a drive underwater in a tunnel to get to another country, other than Canada and Mexico. No offense intended, though, and none taken.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 May 02 - 07:00 PM

No, the speed limit on most major highways in the states is 75; at least in the West. It does tend to be lower in the East where exits are closer together. Of course, anyone actually driving 75 had better stay in the right hand (slow) lane. On most highways (we call them freeways) traffic moves along at about 80-85. There was once a national speed limit of 55 (the stick was that the Federal share of highway repair money would be taken away) but that went away about 10 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Gareth
Date: 03 May 02 - 06:44 PM

A point I had not fully appreciated - Speed limit, Motorways (UK), and Freeways (US of A).

Between my Village and London I only need to drive on Non Dual lane roads about 7 miles. The rest is "foot down" and go at approximatley 70/75 MPH. The speed limit on Uk Dual carrigeways is 70 mph. 75 MPH will not get you done by the traffic Cops.

Am I right in thinking that the US of A limit anywhere is 55 MPH ?

Again this puts the time/distance equation in a different light.

Any "cousins" prepared to comment ??

Gareth - If Wales was flat, it would be bigger than England

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 May 02 - 06:32 PM

Tam, I have a passport, but I can go a thousand miles in any direction without needing one.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Fortunato
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:35 PM

Thanks, Ard. that was not obvious to me, but I get it. I hope to visit Wales some day. One of these days I'll pop over and cajole Micca and Gervase, et al, to take me a'tramping. Cheers to all. Chance

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 May 02 - 02:29 PM

Ebbie, in my case, Bethesda is only about a 10 minute drive from Bangor. I'd guess Bangor to the county of Norfolk (it's not a town/city - Norwich is the main city in Norfolk) would take about 5 hrs. We reckon on about a 6 hr journey and it takes about an hour for us to get out of Norfolk.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Marcus Black Wolf
Date: 03 May 02 - 02:26 PM

Ard Mhacha,

If you don't mind me adding some information as well - Ard Mhacha was also supposed to be the capital of Ulster in ancient times, a palace was according to legend built by Mhacha about 400 BC or so, and stood until around 400 AD or so when it was destroyed by an invasion led by tribes from Connacht. Our English colleagues may recognise the area if we use the more familiar name Armagh :)

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 May 02 - 02:01 PM

Fortunato, It is easy ARD MACK-KAA,just as it is written,situated in the north of Ireland, it mean Mhacha`s Height, Mhacha was an ancient Celtic Queen.

Greg Stephens, I wouldn`t be too concerned with your geographical no-how, but Bush is the President of the greatest power on Earth and it would be a relief to know that he can tell his Wales from his elbow, when he pushes the button. Ard Mhacha

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 02 - 01:04 PM

Tam, we have a long-lived slogan: See America First! And there is a lot to see and a long way to go. We have 73 people per square mile to talk to in 3,717,796 square miles to cover, if we want to see it all, as opposed to Scotland's 30,000 + square miles with its 5 million people. Yes, I can easily imagine that more- lots more- of Scots have passports. And if I too am rude, I too am very sorry. :)

One odd thing is how very many sites and cities have been named in honor of the old ones. Jon Freeman said above, "I was at a festival in Bangor over the weekend. We decided to travel back to Norfolk via the scenic route, i.e. down the A5 through Bethesda..." To me, it sounds like he went from Bangor, Maine to Norfolk, Virginia then up to Bethesda, Maryland. A long-ish drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 03 May 02 - 11:43 AM

no not yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 03 May 02 - 11:43 AM

I think that there's more than over 50 percent of Scots have passports maybe even more, I not quite sure.

However that's better than just 5 percent of Americans.

I hope you don't think that I'm rude.

If I am then I'm very sorry.

Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Gareth
Date: 03 May 02 - 11:40 AM

Errr ! Tam, they ain't put border controls at Gretna Green and Berwick, yet.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 03 May 02 - 11:35 AM

Fortunato,

I think it's around about more than half of Scots go on holiday abroad, not only here in Scotland but other parts of Britian as well.

which is more than 5 percent of Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Fortunato
Date: 03 May 02 - 11:18 AM

Tam...What's the percentage of Scots with passports?

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 03 May 02 - 11:11 AM

It's not only the Welsh that get this from Americans but every other country as well, 5 percent of Americans have passports. So that leave 95 percent of Americans who have never left America.

And then you're surprised at the reaction that you get from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Fortunato
Date: 03 May 02 - 10:45 AM

Hello Greg.

Having become almost apolitical as I have grown older I prefer Poe's pronouciation:

For chu /nah toe!

I wasn't kidding about finding Welsh pronounciation intimadating. I feel it is the bare minimum of courtesy to get a person's name right. Where I live here in Silver Spring MD we have representatives from EVERY country in the world. I enjoy knowing their names and if possible being able to greet them in their native language. I hope I didn't sound tongue-in-cheek. I was a school teacher once upon a time and I remember it taking an entire semester for me to learn to say correctly the name of a girl from Reykjavik. But I learned it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 May 02 - 10:17 AM

Is that Fortunato as in NATO or as in...as in the other way you could say it?

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Fortunato
Date: 03 May 02 - 10:12 AM

Poor George Bush. Someone failed to brief him, I suppose. They might have told him the young singer was from THAT Wales. Perhaps he has a lot on his mind. Enron and all you, you know. Anyway we knew he wasn't brilliant, ivy league colleges aside.

"Great times make great men", they say. I wonder. Of course there's always "You can't make a silk purse from a cow's ear".

Well, ard mhacha, I know where Wales is. I'm painfully aware I can't pronounce many of the place names there, however. Welsh makes feel inadequate, so I fell I can't even pronounce your Mudcat 'handle'. Perhaps we might start with this small step?

How do you pronounce "ard mhacha"?

cheers, Fortunato

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: IvanB
Date: 03 May 02 - 09:41 AM

Dave Williams, thanks for that bit of information. Of course I hope you realize you've completely ruined one source of whimsy that was always available to me when we traveled through Ohio.

Oh, well, I'll just have to believe that the good general was named after the English city. *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: IvanB
Date: 03 May 02 - 09:41 AM

Dave Williams, thanks for that bit of information. Of course I hope you realize you've completely ruined one source of whimsy that was always available to me when we traveled through Ohio.

Oh, well, I'll just have to believe that the good general was named after the English city. *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 May 02 - 09:29 AM

the effect is bigger than you think. London-Moscow is only about 1500 miles. I'll bet San francisco-Boston is more than 3000. And on the general topic, I dont see why Americans have to know where Wales is. I dont know where Iowa is.We've all got huge holes in our education...there's an awful lot of facts in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 03 May 02 - 08:56 AM

An English aquaintance used to looking at the pull down maps of the UK and the USA in her schoolroom, and having little other geographical reference, thought that the size/distance of the two maps was the same. She proposed to land in Chicago and drive down to Oklahoma City in the afternoon.

An English friend in San Francisco had a hard time with his mother when she was to visit his sister in Boston. "But you can take the bus right over" was Ma's attitude. It was only when it was pointed out that it was a distance about like Moscow to London that she began to get the idea.

The stories Canadians have about this 'compression effect' are many.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 May 02 - 06:02 AM

I thought Wooster was named in honour of P.G.Wodehouse's fictitious character (The employer of that excellant manservant Jeeves)
I haven't tried, but I wonder what happens if you "Ask Jeeves" (the search engine) about "Jeeves" !

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Dave Williams (Welsh Ohioan)
Date: 02 May 02 - 11:47 PM

IvanB,

Wooster was named in honor of Revolutionary War Brigadier-General David Wooster of Connecticut.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: IvanB
Date: 02 May 02 - 10:46 PM

Having a stepdad who was born of Welsh parents just after they came to America, I've always been quite aware of the location of Wales. My (step)grandparents were from Swansea and my grandmother sounded to me like she'd just got off the boat until the day she died. Her sister, who came to live with her for a few years when they were both in their late 60's claimed, however, that grandma's accent was oh so American.

But, speaking of American cities named after places abroad, perhaps Spaw can set me right on one count: I've always firmly believed that folks in Ohio thought it'd be nice to name their town after an English city when they named "Wooster."

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Owain
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:19 PM

Thanks HuwG, Ok, you're on! lol But, if I fail at least give me credit for finding a way to rhyme Llangollen!

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 May 02 - 04:31 PM

The shop my mother uses calls Y Fenni "Why Fenny" and can't be convinced otherwise...

I was at a festival in Bangor over the weekend. We decided to travel back to Norfolk via the scenic route, i.e. down the A5 through Bethesda, Capel Curig, Betws-y-Coed, etc. towards Shrewsbury rather than hammer back up the A55. At least it gave Pip a chance to see some of the mountains she loves...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 02 - 03:28 PM

I don't know much about Wales but, apparently, I'm going to have to learn. I was at an Irish geneology website and found out that my surname indicates that, before Ireland, Wales was in my ancestry. Supposedly, it's all in how you spell "Owens".

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Skipper Jack
Date: 02 May 02 - 02:33 PM

The Baggies from Swansea will be singing sea songs and shanties (quite a few of them with a Welsh connection) in Mystic; New York; Boston and Kennebunk next month. If any of our audiences don't know where Wales is - well we shall put that right when we get there.

We are certainly looking forward to our visit to America.

Have you tried asking the people of Patagonia where Wales is? You probably wouldn't understand them if they told you. Come to think of it they might not understand you, they only speak Welsh and perhaps Spanish!!

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: MudGuard
Date: 02 May 02 - 02:28 PM

Wow - Catspaw ran out of words - a miracle! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 May 02 - 02:20 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 02 May 02 - 02:00 PM

I come from the Nottingham area and have travelled extensively in the USA. I learned to say when asked about my homeplace "I come from the city of Nottingham, about 130 miles north of London" That worked well because to many Americans 'England' means London. Lets face it, don't most English people who have never been to America think of New York as Manhattan?. I think it's quite reasonable for people to think like that. Most of us have a country's capital city as our main reference to that country. But now I live in Cardiff and my problem has changed. I tell people I live in Wales and get the answer "Is that near England?" So an explanation of Wales and it's position, culture and language ensues, carrying on to the point where they wish they'd never asked. They do consider both Nottingham and Cardiff to be quite close to London, using their American judgement of distance which has to do with driving time rather than mileage. I would ask British people to remember that those questons which seem a bit untoward to us are asked from genuine interest, with the typical American warmth towards strangers. Particularly British strangers in my experience. Ringer, your post takes me back. I know all those pronunciations, also 'Wassup'-where they don't shut doors'. My Aunt & uncle lived in Pinfold Lane, Stapleford. Many English towns and villages have a 'Pinfold' (sometimes 'Penfold') it's a holdover from the days of the old drove roads, a resting place for cattle on the journey to market. One more thing about Nottinghamshire dialect, it's the only place I know where 'toffee' is pronounced 'Tuffy'. Oh, and where the people call each other 'Duck' as a term of affection. Must stop now, I'm getting homesick.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: MMario
Date: 02 May 02 - 01:58 PM

LIke the time my supervisor's boyfriend called from Naples - and the person answering the phone stuck him on hold...thinking he was calling from Naples, NY. (a local call) - but he was calling from Naples, Italy!

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Phil Atkinson
Date: 02 May 02 - 01:40 PM

I made the mistake of going up against a Myrthr girl drinking beer in 1975. She won after I couldn't manage the seventh pint. I had to learn Llanfair etc. and sing a made-on-the-spot ditty about my being an English wanker. I still dream of you, Beverley!

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: HuwG
Date: 02 May 02 - 01:27 PM

Bless you Owain:

"there's things that you need to avoid Like sayin' Bett-see-coe-edd instead of Bett-ooos-uh-coyd ...

Right first time !

Now put Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwryndrobyllllantisiliogogogoch into a rocking beat.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 02 - 01:25 PM

I've always known where Wales, the country, is, partly because my fmaily knew things like that and also because I loved to draw maps. In my grown-up years I had a good friend who was from Wales and my brother was an Anglophile who raved about the Prince of Wales and his coronation as such, with the ancient rites and regalia, etc. Then I *met* Mucatters, Bron/Llanfair and Jon Freeman, who used to live in Wales, and I learned a lot more.

Since moving back to Colorado, I've noticed a lot of non-Coloradoan (pronounced Cawl oh ra (as in rag) dun) accents, in particular the way some pronounce the name of the town of "Montrose." We natives say it Mawn - trows, with the accent on the second syllable, while the newbies say it with the first syllable accented.

I had a heck of a time when we moved from the state of Wyoming to Massachusets and, later, Connecticut. There was a town in Rhode Island by the name of Wyoming, so when people asked me where I was from, they thought I was a native New Englander!

If you've found New Mexico, just look up (north) and slightly to the center (east) to spot Colorado, then a bit north and to the left to find Wyoming. Colorado meets New Mexico, Utah, and Arizona in a perfect "Four Corners" area in its extreme southwest corner, so one can stand in all four states at that spot.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 May 02 - 12:29 PM

Ringer, my wife's grandmother was from Nottingham and she (my wife, not her grandmother, who is long gone) pronounces all those words that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Owain
Date: 02 May 02 - 10:39 AM

Bore da! Here's a song I wrote when I first got back from my bike trip:To a rock and roll pulse(think Route 66 or J.B. Goode)

Livin' My Life In Wales

I want a Morris Minor pick-up and a Cardigan corgi dog A 2 up in Snowdonia where weather's just rain or fog I'll clean windows got my ladders, squeegees, sponges and pails Hell, I'd even take a job somewhere in retail sales But, I ain't gonna be livin' 'til I'm livin' my life in Wales

You know I love you baby and I'll write to ya now and then But I just got ta, got ta get back to my lovely little Llangollen Don't know what it was that fin'ly tipped the scales But suddenly it hit me like a bucket 'o nails I ain't gonna be livn' 'til I'm livin my life in Wales

'Til I'm livin my life in Wales Everything's snips and snails and puppy dog tails... Hey, what's that nursery rhyme doin' in this song? It ain't just a matter of when all else fails A simple coin toss callin' heads or tails I ain't gonna be livin' 'til I'm livin my life in Wales

Like any local culture there's things that you need to avoid Like sayin' Bett-see-coe-edd instead of Bett-ooos-uh-coyd From Holyhead to Cardiff, by Dolgellau way Fishguard, Aberystwyth up to Colwyn Bay I ain't gonna be happy 'til I'm livin my life... Find a wild welsh woman of my own for a wife Ain't gonna be livin' 'til I'm livin my life in Wales!

With great affection from a Welshophile Yank

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Ringer
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:48 AM

And a Wales near Sheffield, England.

Nigel, place names in England do change still. Perhaps not the names of towns and villages, but on a smaller scale, they do. Example: I was born & brought up in a little village near Nottingham. In my boyhood, the roads had grass verges and one was known as "Moor Lane". The council replaced grass verges with kerbed pavements (sidewalks) and erected road-name signs. Moor Lane became "Pinfold Lane".

Again, a little while ago someone produced a glossy book of the village's history, and it contained a map of the village. Fields which I had known in my boyhood as "Brickins" and "Bottom Close" (though pronounced cluss) had become "Morley's field" and "Miller's Hillside". Obviously the sources used had wanted to perpetuate their own names for posterity.

And pronounciations change. Am I the only person in the world who still pronounces Southwell as "Suth'l"? Or Cropwell Bishop as "Crop'l"? Or Worksop as "Worksup"? Or Grantham as "Grant'm"? Or Eyam as "Ee-um"? My kids laugh at me when I say "five and twenty to six".

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: MMario
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:42 AM

Some people in US think 100 years is a long time - having grown up in a community settled over 300 years before my birth I tend to think of anything built after the mid 1800's as "new"

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:32 AM

Britons think 100 miles is a very long way; Americans think 100 years is a very long time.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: MMario
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:30 AM

And there is the added factor that there is a Wales, Massachusetts; a Wales, Alaska; a Wales, Arkansas; a Lake Wales Florida; a Wales Conn.;a Wales, Wisconsin; a Wales, NY.

There are communities named "Wales" in several other countries as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:09 AM

And Grab that appliies to George Bush, Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Grab
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:00 AM

Still, how many English ppl could place any of the US midwest states on a map? Or any given Indian state, or French Départment? Knowledge of geography usually only extends to areas you're interested in or have visited a bit.

Huw, IIRC it's pronounced as if "we bet him he couldn't, and he...". Is that about right?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Grab
Date: 02 May 02 - 09:00 AM

Still, how many English ppl could place any of the US midwest states on a map? Or any given Indian state, or French Départment? Knowledge of geography usually only extends to areas you're interested in or have visited a bit.

Huw, IIRC it's pronounced as if "we bet him he couldn't, and he...". Is that about right?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 May 02 - 08:58 AM

Gareth, that's an excellent point on relative distances. Many of us who DON'T live in big cities (where one often has to drive for 2 hours to go 20 miles) regularly get in the car and go 100 miles or more for a weekend's camping. Of course, gas (petrol) is cheap here, although we think its expensive; about $1.25 US per gallon...and I won't even try to convert that to decimal pounds per liter.

The ignorance of some Americans about geography isn't limited to Wales. I live in New Mexico (Dead Horse, if you're looking at a map, that's west of the rounded part that points south, aka Texas). There is a story told about a New Mexican who tried to buy a ticket for a New York show by telephone, only to be told by someone {who didn't know the difference between a state and a country} that the ticket sellers couldn't sell outside of the US. Of course, many of us consider New York to be in another country [it is, after all, named after a city in England]...or perhaps on another planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha.
Date: 02 May 02 - 08:54 AM

Yes Gareth, you are right about Bill Clinton, but my God I shudder when I think of the goon in the White House, and he had to use his lap-dog Blair as a foreign Ambassador. The string pullers have to be working overtime. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: MMario
Date: 02 May 02 - 08:39 AM

Regional Variations in the US can confuse even those who a) grew up here and b) have traveled.

there are sections of Philly where the accent is almost identical to a Cape Cod accent - depending on where on the Cape the person is from. Some parts of the Cape have a "Bahsten" accent - some are verbally closer to Maine, and some are unique. (Actually - this is true even within members of a *family* )

Lousiana and Mississipi have several regional dialects and accents apiece.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Gareth
Date: 02 May 02 - 08:25 AM

Hmmm ! Is also a matter of size. By American standards a 2 hour drive - Cardiff to/from London - would be near.

Cardiff in the South to the North - 3 Hours drive.

Thats what I liked about Bill Clinton, at least he knows where Europe is !!!

And on accents - I have no doubt that American Regional Variations are clear - to another American.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: HuwG
Date: 02 May 02 - 07:56 AM

The linguistic abilities of most English people ("If the foreigner you are speaking to in English looks baffled, shout louder") extend to Wales.

How often have I heard newsreaders on BBC Northwest mangling "Bettws-y-coed", a popular climbing centre in Snowdonia ? (Hint, dear newsreader; it is not pronounced "Betsy co-ed").

I once made the mistake of asking for a brand of Welsh goats-milk cheese, "Pant Ysgawn", at the delicatessen counter in a local supermarket. It took some fast talking to avoid being thrown out for making what sounded like obscene suggestions to the (female) assistant. Oddly, they don't stock it any more ... They do stock "Y Fenni", which merely gets raised eyebrows, rather than insulted expressions. Luckily, "Bara brith", which is a fruited bread not unlike an Irish "barm brack", is on the bread counter, and I don't have to ask for it specially.

Iechyd da bob Cymri ...

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Ringer
Date: 02 May 02 - 07:44 AM

Looks as though I can't be a true Englishman, then, Dead Horse, because I'm a Francophile.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 May 02 - 07:34 AM

You think Wales is difficult for people to place? Ha! When applying for an international call card by phone in the US, I had to give my home address. When I said "Northern Ireland" I was asked "is that the bit that's attached to England?". I thought about this for a few seconds, then decided it would be much easier if I agreed rather than discuss physical and metaphorical situations...

(I met loads of people who did know where it was, I might add!)

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 May 02 - 04:54 AM

There's a story about Carwyn James, the legendary Welsh rugby figure, taking a cab in New York and telling the cabbie that he came from Wales, to which the cabbie replied, "Oh. The fish, or them singing b*st*rds?"

Fame of sorts.

sian, west wales

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 May 02 - 04:50 AM

I'm somewhat guilty myself
While having a fairly extensive knowledge of the geography of most of the world, I often find myself all at sea when it comes to the States. I know NY is east & Californy is west, but as for what is inbetween............
Same is also true of France, but then, like ALL true Englishmen, I am a Francophobe, (except for the bits about food, music, culture, shared history etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 May 02 - 04:11 AM

I got so tired of this experience that when travelling abroad I always carry a postcard with a suitably delineated map of the United Kingdom. It makes for easier explanation.
Remembering the postcard is no problem as I use it as a bookmark, and I always carry a book.

Subject: RE: BS: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 02 May 02 - 03:56 AM

Hi Ard Macha...

Well I live not far from Cardiff. A couple of years ago, I went travelling around Baltimore, Washington, New York and Annapolis. Of course my accent stuck out like a sore thumb, (not really having a strong Welsh accent as I live on the border) people always asked where I was from. Usually when I was ordering dinner, shopping or whatever.

When I said Wales quite often they asked where it was, and then said - Oh is that near (or in) London. They really didn't have a clue where Wales is in relation to any other part of the country. And thought it was all England. Though a big majority also knew where it was.

So that was my experience, though I'm not saying none of them had a clue, but it did get a little wearing. And was always impressed when people knew where it was.

Ella

Subject: Wales, its enough to make you wail.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 May 02 - 03:34 AM

Charlotte Church a teenage singer from Wales whilst guesting on the satrical BBC quiz, "Have I got News for you", recalled, after singing for George Bush was asked by the great man, as to what State Wales was in. Poor Charlotte taken aback muttered "it`s near England" and George`s reply "Oh Yeah". How many US Catters have a better geographical knowledge than their President. Ard Mhacha.