Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 May 02 - 04:33 PM

Mike: If these little lapses in realism bother you so much, what do you normally watch on TV? Professional wrestling, maybe?

I am ideologically opposed to using smiley-faces, but consider yourself smiled at. With malice toward none, of course.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 May 02 - 04:16 PM

Here's what troubled me. It looks like conditions were harder for the reenactors than for the typical real-life homesteader. Even if it was typical for Montana, Montana wasn't typical of the American west. Why didn't they choose to hold the experiment in, say, Kansas, where the winters are shorter and milder, there is more rainfall, and the land is more fertile? Probably because Kansas is already cultivated from one end to the other; there is no sod left to bust (except on prairie preserves). And why is there still a lot of uncultivated land in Montana? Because that land is still economically marginal. In other words, it's nearly worthless as farmland. If it weren't worthless, it would have had farmers on it already.

But I missed the first hour or so of the series. Did they give some kind of explanation there that I missed?

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,Mike Billo
Date: 03 May 02 - 04:13 PM

Hi Jim; After they completed their training and began the trek to the valley, they encountered a road that had been washed out. The people who were walking took a long detour and walked around the problem, but those riding in the wagons had tractors fill in the road for them. The producers explained, in the narration, that the "time constraints" of the show made this necessary.

After seeing that, I remarked to my family, "If they stop at an ATM or check their email, we're changing the channel".

If looks could kill (they liked the show) I would have been dead.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 02 - 04:07 PM

The stated goal of the project was to survive a Montana winter. The families were supposed to prepare for that. They did not actually have to stay there once winter began. The consultants for the project examined the final state of each homestead. The Brooks were the most likely to survive. The Malibu Clunes were not focussed on what they should be doing to prepare, except for having a garden and filling a root cellar. They would have frozen before they ran out of food, since they did not stockpile firewood. Gordon Clune's family owns a missile manufacturing business (Klune). He had an alcohol still made by the company and shipped to him and he spent more time on that than haying or woodcutting. Here is another web site about the planning for the project, plans which started before 1900 House. Planning of Frontier House Click Here

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Rich_and_Dee
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:56 PM

Hi,

I read about this series in this month's Smithsonian Magazine.

I haven't had a chance to see the show yet, but I'm certainly planning to.

As I understand the Smithsonian article, the attempt wasn't really to make a historically-accurate film, but to track the likely psychological and emotional progression of people leaving, say, Philadelphia or Boston and hoofing it out West on a wing and a prayer during the 19th Century.

A lot of folks with no experience in homesteading signed up for the Homestead Acts in the 19th Century. There were something like 2 million people who got their 126 acres. I don't have the numbers handy, but either 40% succeeded or 40% came back East looking for a warm bed and a decent meal in the cities.

Many of us (I'm a city slicker by birth and choosing)have archtypical images of frontier life. You know, some confused mix of "Little House on the Prairie" and "Grapes of Wrath", I just can't conjure up any image of the daily emotional life.

The fact that the people in this series had to do some cheating is a fairly chilling indication how serious and nasty striking out there could get.

For myself I bless my Irish famine emigrant great-great grandparents for deciding the Boston and Manhattan pubs were very comfy indeed, thank you very much.

Rich

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:55 PM

The cabins and artifacts from the project are being moved to Nevada City, Montana, where they will be on display. Virginia and Nevada city are authentic old Montana towns, with the old buildings preserved. It seems odd to me to put these new log cabins in that location. I would have liked them to go to go to the reservation for people to use. If you didn't see the earlier part of the series, there was a deer shot and donated by a native American whose ancestors were the inhabitants of that area until homesteaders came and took it over. Because there is no restriction on their hunting, they did supply a deer and show the families how to skin and butcher it. The Indian who brought the deer then gave them some valuable history lessons.
There is a website for the Frontier House "museum". You can find it with a Google search.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,irishajo
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:51 PM

I thought the point of the show was not just to show how people lived during that time period, but also to show how modern families would adjust to it. So the historic liberties (not that I would have noticed the more subtle ones) didn't bother me so much.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:41 PM

Fretless, not only were there guitars (and even opera houses in many towns) there was a mandolin and guitar society organized around the turn of the century in my town, Bozeman, Montana. The current Montana Mandolin Society was formed recently when an old photo came to light showing the original group from around 1900. The opera house in Bozeman was built in 1888, and was unfortunately torn down in 1964, when people didn't value historic preservation. Here is a photo of the mandolin society: Click Here Virginia City and Nevada City, Montana, had musical entertainment. Many instruments were brought by river, including pianos, and then hauled overland. When the railroads came in, even more goods came to this area.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:35 PM

About that guitar: Yeah, maybe it wasn't historically accurate, but I'd cut them some slack on that. In fact, I'd cut them some slack on everything that has been criticized so far. I noticed they were less strict with the visitors than with the three families that were there full time. The grandmother who came for the kid's birthday wasn't required to wear period clothing. She was wearing what looked like polyester slacks and a short-sleeved shirt.

When they killed the pig, they used a modern rifle instead of whatever the homesteaders might have used—an ax, maybe? In the interest of killing the pig humanely and reliably, I'd allow them that. If any of the people had gotten seriously ill, I suppose the show's producers would have allowed them antibiotics. Heck, maybe they did take antibiotics and that part didn't make it into the final edit. Who cares?

The point is for all of us to learn something, not to torture people.

Mike Billo: When were tractors used in the series? I must have missed that part. I'll watch it again, though.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,Mik Billo
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:32 PM

Hi Alice; My Father and Grandfather were hunting for subsistance (granted they were in Minnesota, not Montana) as late as the 1940's. Maybe they just liked hunting :)

I guess the fact that hunting was "forbidden" by 21st century law and not an option for the participants at all was kind of a sticking point with me.

It's probably just nit picking on my part, but there was widespread hunting in the 1880's.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Deda
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:32 PM

I only saw the last episode but I also found it intriguing. I thought the kids, both those from wealthy Malibu family and the Glenn boy who had so resisted seeing his pet pig slaughtered, were having a lot richer life during the experiment than they had back in the 21st century. The Malibu girls were soaking in their hot tub by the pool, complaining that there was nothing to do, and the boy was glued to a videogame, in one of those TV-induced stupors.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,Chip A.
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:30 PM

What Kat said.

I only saw two hours of the program. I guess I never understood who sponsored this or WHY!? I lived a life very close to this for several years. For us it wasn't a game it was a life.

There are many doing it still. Why not study them?

Still, it was interesting to see. I was really interested in the kids and how it changed their perspective.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: CapriUni
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:30 PM

Irishajo --

I didn't see the beginning of this series, and only saw bits of the last two days, but I Erinn Glenn (one of the daughters) did cry at the thought of leaving her horse behind. And Tracy Clune (the niece/cousin) sniffled a little at the thought of leaving the home they had all built together just being left behind as if none of it meant anything -- and she said that she had no regrets about coming out there, even if she hated it at first, because the experience made her a stronger, more confident, person.

I, too, was struck that Gordon Clune was so arrogant -- sure that the rules didn't apply to him. Not only would he not have been able to cook any meat he hunted without firewood (or, even if they had enough food, keeping his family from freezing to death), but he seemed to assume that he could hunt through the winter... Good thing he didn't have to try with the snow 5 feet deep...

One question I've had from the very beginning that was never answered: What happened to the cabins themselves after the families left? Were they torn down? Turned into educational exhibits? Anybody know?

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:17 PM

Mike, they did get a deer that was given to them, and they could fish. They had PLENTY of food, frankly, and Gordon Clune's obsession with hunting was, I think, part of his western fantasy. They did not focus on what they should have, which was getting firewood cut and split on an ongoing basis (they had a paltry fraction of what would be needed). The Clunes also avoided cutting hay for their livestock, gathering dry grass that had no more nutrition than straw. Hunting really was not the issue. My family homesteaded in Montana, and hunting was not a big deal. They did rely on fish, which didn't take the money (ammunition) or time that hunting would take.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:12 PM

Fretless, did you say 1990 house? Well, it did make me think for a minute what life would be like without the Internet!

More later.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:12 PM

I only watched part of it, last night, but I have to agree with Mike. I didn't like the soap opera aspects, plus what bothered Rog and me both is there are people who are basically living that kind of life, today. Admittedly they may be few, but it seemed sort of silly to show these apparently unprepared folks when the film-maker could have documented close to the real thing. I know that wasn't the point, but it would have been much more interesting, imo. It just seemed kind of stupid to me.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Troll
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:12 PM

Been there. Done that. Give me central heat and air.

troll

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,Mike Billo
Date: 03 May 02 - 03:05 PM

I hate to be the lone naysayer, but at the outset, when they were told they would not be allowed to hunt, due to 21st century laws (this was poorly rationalized by saying that some laws regulating hunting did exist in the 1880's) it lost all credibility for me.

From that point, the tractors being called in (the 'experiment" had begun by that point),cheating by trading with the 21st century neighbors down the road, menustration belts (available only to the wealthiest women in America at the time),etc. made it little more than a costume party to me.

However, I do respect that many (including my wife and daughter)thought the show was wonderful. I hate it when I'm the only person who finds fault, but I guess I'm a stickler on the subject of historical accuracy.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,fretless, at work
Date: 03 May 02 - 02:53 PM

It broke my heart to see that fiddle hanging on the wall of the Glenn cabin, never touched once during the whole series.

I'm an archaeologist. I don't teach currently, but I imagine it would be great fun to include viewings of the Frontier House and the 1990 House in a course on historical archaeology. A good way to emphasize the human dimension in a course where students can get bogged down in the material equipment/artifacts.

Finally, I got a little tired of the inter- and intra-family bickering on the Frontier House. I think the producers could have give less air time to the soap opera aspects of their story, although that sort of conflict was certainly a real part of the historic prairie experience.

And didn't I see a fiddle accompanied by a GUITAR at the wedding? My recollection is that the guitar didn't penetrate the Appalachians until after the Spanish American War. Did it perhaps get to the northern plains earlier, via Mexico/Texas?

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: GUEST,irishajo
Date: 03 May 02 - 02:26 PM

I haven't seen the whole series. I just saw the last two episodes. I need to get my VCR programmed to record the whole thing I guess.

Even what little of it I saw struck me. One of the first things I picked up on was the difference between the men's and women's reactions upon leaving the frontier and returning to the 21st century. The men literally cried, and from what I could see the women were pretty happy to be getting back.

The children also seemed glad to get back to the 21st century - but admitted they were already bored with all the 'things' in their lives.

I can't forget the scene of the one man (Clune is his last name) wandering around his huge house after he'd returned from the frontier - he seemed so lonely.

I am interested to hear what others thought. Especially what we as a society have gained/lost in 130 years. I don't want to say much more until I've seen the whole thing.

Subject: RE: Review: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Alice
Date: 03 May 02 - 02:26 PM

I wondered if someone would start a thread on the Frontier House. I was glued to it, my son and I cheering the dignity and maturity of the Brooks family, and flabbergasted at the arrogance of the Clunes and backstabbing of the Glenns.

I found the forum for the Frontier House on the PBS website, so I have been discussing it a bit yesterday and today online at that forum. I feel talked out about it now, after going over so many aspects of it with people on that forum. I did share some experience of my Montana homesteading family.

One of the most obvious blunders of the two families that failed was their lack of understanding how long and cold and snowy a Montana winter would be in that mountain valley. They did not heed the information about getting enough firewood. Gordon Clune was so obsessed with his hunting fantasies, he was in denial about how he would even cook that meat if he had it. Duh, Gordon, no firewood!!

In spite of talking about how close they had gotten to their children, when they showed Gordon Clune back at his multimillion dollar Malibu mansion, he pushed his son away when he wanted to help his dad mow the lawn.

Frontier House Forum, PBS website Click Here

Alice (in Montana)

Subject: PBS series 'Frontier House'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 May 02 - 01:45 PM

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the PBS series Frontier House. It was shown on Twin Cities Public Television in three 2-hour segments on Monday through Wednesday evenings, April 29-May 1, and the whole series will be repeated on Sunday, May 5, from noon to 6 pm.

I know that not all PBS affiliates follow the same schedule. So I'm advising all Mudcatters to go pbs.org now, and follow a link to your local station (see "Station Finder" in the upper right corner), and find out when the show will be shown or repeated in your area. If you can't watch it, tape it or get somebody to tape it for you. Even if you can watch it, you may want to tape it anyway because you may want to watch it more than once. I plan to.

I haven't been this moved by a PBS series since Ken Burns' "Civil War" or maybe "Lewis & Clark."

The concept is that 3 families have to live like homesteaders in Montana in 1883. I guess that makes it "reality" TV, but it's a lot more real than "Survivor" and the other crap that gets shown on commercial TV. There is no phony competition, or voting on who gets kicked out. (Although one of the kids does say, at one point, "I wish we'd get kicked out.") It's a bit like The 1900 House which was produced in London, but more dramatic and more relevant to me at least, because it's closer to how my own ancestors lived 2 or 3 generations ago. Heck, it's closer to how my parents lived when they were kids.

There's only a little bit of homemade music in it, but that doesn't matter. It's about the kind of things songs are written about, and that's what should matter.

I could say more, but I want to hear your comments first