Origin: lyrics to Colonel Bogey

Subject: Col Bogey march question
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:15 AM

My wife, the Mizchuck, came home today and mentioned that the school marching band was practicing the march that was used as the theme music in The Bridge Over the River Kwai, and it made her nervous because she was afraid she might forget she was in school, and start to sing the original lyrics (we're not talking "My beer, is Rheingold extra dry...." here, folks!) along with it in the halls, which would be bad for her professional image as a teacher.

It got us to wondering. Is that tune a formal, composed march, that the lyrics on the DT got put to later, or was it composed along with the lyrics, by the folk process, presumably early on in WWII, and became a "legitimate" march that high school bands play later on, perhaps because of its use in the movie? Does anyone know?

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:29 AM

Some info here and as you can see it was written in WWI not WWII.

I doubt if there were any "original" lyrics as many marches had none. But it does lend itself easily to any number of rips! I'll be interested to see if any originals do exist too.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:33 AM

Midchuck, this information is available HERE.

'Colonel Bogey' is arguably the most famous march ever written. It is certainly the most profitable. First published in 1914 - a portentious year for marches if ever there was one - it quickly made the best-seller sheet music lists. By the early Thirties it had sold well over a million copies, had been recorded innumerable times and had already begun clocking up useful performing rights from the BBC. Even better, in 1958 it was chosen as the theme tune for the splendid film The Bridge on the River Kwai - and the mind boggles over the financial implications of that.

It is of course a fine march whose opening has proved totally irresistible for the best part of a century. Its composer was Lieutenant F.J.Ricketts (1881-1945), a military bandmaster who was Director of Music for the Royal Marines at Plymouth. Because at that time Service personnel were not encouraged to have professional lives in the great big world outside, Ricketts published 'Colonel Bogey' and his other compositions under the pseudonym Kenneth Alford.

So much for the composer – but who in fact was Colonel Bogey? The story goes that this was a nickname by which a certain fiery colonel was known just before the 1914 War when Ricketts was stationed at Fort George near Inverness in Scotland. One of the composer's recreations was playing golf and it was on the local course that he sometimes encountered the eccentric colonel. One of the latter's peculiarities was that instead of shouting 'Fore' to warn of an impending drive, he preferred to whistle a descending minor third. This little musical tag stayed and germinated in the mind of the receptive Ricketts – and so the opening of a memorable march was born.

One wonders if the two men ever met again. If so, let us hope that the composer at least stood the Colonel a generous double at the Nineteenth Hole.

I'm not sure about the words...I first encountered them on an Oscar Brand record called, I think, "Bawdy Barracks Ballads".

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:34 AM

Once again Catspaw is faster than me!

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: toadfrog
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:35 AM

It was a formal, composed march. Composed by a Lieutenant F.L. Ricketts in 1914, and extremely well known well before WW II. Normally the folk process does not work the way described. It had lots of World War II lyrics:

Cheer up, and the same to you!
Good luck, in every thing you do!
Cheer up, the skies will clear up!
And Britain's boys will come home once again!

Here's a health to the boys in Navy blue!
The Army and the Airforce, too!
Here's a health to the Women's Volunteers,
They all deserve three hearty cheers!
Etc.

Those lyrics may well be older than the ones about hitler and his bal.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:36 AM

"Colonel Bogey" march was composed by Kenneth J. Alford (whose real name was Frederick J. Ricketts, 1881-1945) for military band in 1914 (info from James J. Fuld, The Book of World-Famous Music). The lyrics in question was written much later.

~Masato

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Midchuck downstairs
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:57 AM

All right! I figured someone would know, if there was a definitive answer.

Thanks much,

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 May 02 - 11:04 AM

More lyrics to the "Hitler" version (Click here).

~Masato

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 May 02 - 11:13 AM

Sample page of "Colonel Bogey March" score

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Les from Hull
Date: 09 May 02 - 02:48 PM

We also had schoolboy words in the 50s

Bollocks, they make a damn good stew Bollocks, are very good for you...

There were probably more, but it was a very long time ago

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Les from Hull
Date: 09 May 02 - 02:58 PM

Further to this would anyone care to speculate that Hitler, Mao and Napoleon only had one testicle (each, that is!) Or is it just our way of denigrating other countries' leaders? And if that is the case, is that the worse thing that we can think to say about them?

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 May 02 - 03:13 PM

Let's see Les......

There is this info

Or is it this?

Then there's this

Entering "Hitler" "testicle" together on Google got 1540 hits

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 May 02 - 04:10 PM

Here is another bizarre story that may actually be true (I forget where I read it): When Hitler was a boy, the family doctor was Jewish. When Hitler came to power, he gave the doctor safe conduct, and the latter settled in New York City, where he was interviewed during the war about the rumor. According to him, Hitler's genitals, at least in childhood, were normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 02 - 04:06 AM

Unfortunately, I can't remember which "filker" wrote this. But, in keeping with this thread, and with the recent release of the first part of the Lord of The Rings film:

Sauron, he's only got nine rings
Three are with the Elven Kings,
Seven, in dwarvish heaven,
And poor old Frodo's got hold o' The One.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 May 02 - 07:56 AM

The "one ball" verse was written early in WWII by Hubert Gregg (still going strong), who also penned such gems as "Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner" and the witty wartime hit "I'm going to get lit up when the lights goo up in London". His Colonel B lyric was prbably a great contribution to the war effort, and was approved by the War Office. Understandably, it was "anon" at the time, being unsuitable for polite company, and not good for the reputation of a gentleman, even one who wrote and performed popular songs. He finally came out of the closet a few years ago, by which time it was no greatsecret anyway.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 10 May 02 - 08:43 AM

The Great War period lyrics seem to have revolved around the line
"Bollocks - And the same to you"

Galton and Simpson in one "Steptoe and Son" episode had the following exchange (Harold's replys being sung to the tune of Colonel Bogey"

Albert : Cobblers!
Harlod : And the same to you
Albert : Cobblers!
Harold : They make a jolly fine stew...

It should be recalled that at this time on British TV Cobblers was an acceptable term , while Ballocks and Damn were not.

My own Father, a pre-WW2 conscript, remembered a set of lyrics to the introduction to Colonel Bogey

"Don't claw his eyes out Maggie,
Wait 'til you get him into bed
Then claw his..."
Then the song goes into the usual
"Bollocks - And the same to you"

Hope this is of use.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Don
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:57 AM

My wife introduced me to the following member of the canon:

Comet, it gets your bathroom clean.

Comet, it tastes like Listerine.

Comet,

it makes you vomit,

so buy some comet, and vomit, today.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 May 02 - 05:41 PM

In 19 ought 47, the Columbia Band sang:

Bullshit! It's all the band could play Bullshit! They played it every day Bullshit! Ta-ra-ra Bullshit! Ta-ra-ra Bulshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!

It wasn't new then,.

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 10 May 02 - 06:19 PM

I suspect that Mizchuck should not worry about singing the bawdy set of lyrics - the kids probably know htem already - and if they don't, it should be a useful history lesson for them ;@)
The version of the Hitler song which I grew up with was slightly different, but not much!
Hitler has only got one ball
The other is locked in Cartwright Hall
His mother, the dirty bugger
Took the other, when Hitler was small!!!
[Cartwright Hall is a local museum/art gallery in a local park]
Strange how the true oral/aural tradition (childrens' dirty songs)tends to localise things, isn't it!
Quack!!!!!
Geoff the Duck!

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 11 May 02 - 11:47 AM

Sing us another one do?
Intro
In came the colonel's daughter
dressed in postage stamps
And singing.......
Horace! you've made a mess of me,
Horace! You'll have to marry me,
Horace! we'll call him Boris,
And there'll be Horace & Boris & me
usv TTFN Kenny B

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 17 May 02 - 04:40 PM

Hitler was weird enough without only having one testicle. To my knowledge,(pursuiant to research on a novel) he had both mind you I didn't personally check! I remember the "Comet" version of Colonel Bogey's March and singing it when I was in maybe the first grade. The Hitler Lyrics I learned later were: Hitler, he only had one ball/ goering had two but very small/Himmler he had the simliar/ and Doctor Geobbells had no balls at all. Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: Jacob B
Date: 17 May 02 - 10:53 PM

There is also the Ajax version, which was learned in 1st or 2nd grade, which goes as follows:

Ajax, it makes your mouth turn blue,
Ajax, it tastes like doo, doo, doo,
Ajax, it makes you pay tax,
So get some Ajax, and pay tax, today!

Nancy (on Jacob's cookie)

Subject: RE: BS: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 May 02 - 01:17 AM

PLEASE post the URL address

IF you choose to use the "blue-clicky" please post the URL below it.

It is a major pain to sort through source code for your links.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 11:30 AM

I dont know if it is of interest but Kenneth J Alford was my maternal grandfather nad family tradtion has it that the inspiration for Col Bogey came from the whistling of a blackbird that he heard and whistle back to whilst playing golf
Ann Reader

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 11:34 AM

I followed a link on a thread Hitler has only got one ball I did not mean to split this off

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick (cookieless)
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 03:20 PM

According to an article in today's Independent, Hitler really did have only one ball. The other was shot away in the first world war.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: bubblyrat
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 04:05 PM

By a Jew (I hope ! )

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Severn
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 05:02 PM

There were Army lyrics circa the Vietnam War about reenlisting bonus money that started:

"Re-up, and buy a brand new car....."


But alas I never could remember the whole thing.


In WWII, my dad sung it as:

"Bullshit, will make the grass grow tall...."


but that's the only line I ever heard him sing.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,empeejay
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:41 AM

As a child, I remember an obviously sanitized version of Col Bogey that reached India during WW II, courtesy the tommies and GIs I guess. It went something like this:
Chorus:
Good luck to the boys in navy blue
The army and the airforce too
Good luck to women volunteers
etc. etc.
And the verse:
Hitler, we're marching on your tail
Hitler, no wonder you turn pale
Goering, the lion is roaring
etc Etc

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:32 PM

In 47, we sang:

Bullshit! That's all the band could play.
Bullshit! They play it it every day.
Bullshit! Ta-ra-ra Bullshit!
Ta-ra-ra Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!

Bullshit! It makes the grass grow tall
Bullshit! Enough for one and all
etc.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Pinette Atkinson
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 08:55 AM

Could the person (mudcat.org) who said they were related to Kenneth J Alford (paternal grandfather) please contact me. My husbands family are descendant of Kenneth J Alford's daughter who moved to South Africa.   This is the only link I have been able to find so am looking very forward to hearing from you.   Could you please communicate via my e-mail
[e-mail]

looking forward to hearing from you

Regards

Pinette Atkinson

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: meself
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:05 AM

It was the tune of a commercial jingle from the 'sixties:

Winners, warm up with Maltomeal,
......


That's all I remember, thankfully.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:10 AM

Wondered, when this came up, if anyone was going to come up with the "Bullshit" lyric; all I ever heard was, "Bullshit, it makes the grass grow green".

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 03:36 PM

I am more than a little surprised to read Guest Pinette Atkinsons posting as far as I am aware the only daughter of Keneth J Alford who went to South Africa was my mother who went there with her own mother who moved there after my Grandfathers death. I believe My own mother was only there for a year or so. I am her first child and I have 2 younger brothers.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:07 PM

Los Angeles Area Council (LAAC) Boy Scouts of America

Lake Arrowhead Scout Camps (now Forest Lawn camps - yeah those people))circa previous 1960 (just in time to be influenced by the film) a fire went through the mountainous area (fifty years later and fire is still part of the fire-ecology of the area) and one of the three camps "Cedar" was burned...the other two camp staffs "Bighorn" and "Pepperdine" would sing the following parody.

Cedar - with all its burnt out trees
Cedar - looks like a big disease
Cedar - oh, you can beat her
With either Bighorn or Pepperdine.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 06:17 PM

Severn informed us:

In WWII, my dad sung it as:
"Bullshit, will make the grass grow tall...."

and Frogprince chimed in with:
"Bullshit, it makes the grass grow green".

When I was a kid (back before the Earth's crust cooled), the few lines I remember went:

Horseshit!
It makes your grass grow green!
Greener
Than anything you've seen!

More's the pity, I remember nothing more.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 07:15 PM

When I learned it in the cadets at school it always had the introductory line:

We are the shit-shovellers shovelling shit on the shit parade -
They say that Hitler has only got one ball etc

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 08:02 PM

McGrath - and THAT matched up with WHAT tune?

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 08:05 PM

Check out other tunes by Kenneth Alford - they're brilliant!

In my opinion (I'm one of Britain's newest brass band composers) his compositions are equally as good as those of Sousa (Monty Python theme plus lots more you'll have heard in Hollywood films) and the other legendary military, brass and Salvation Army composers - and a great inspiration in my writing.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Pinette Atkinson
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 12:52 AM

To Ms Scarecrow!
The information that I have is that Kenneth Alford's daughter , Violet, married a Mr Rose in South Africa and after his death, married my husbands grandfather, John Herbert Atkinson in Cape Town.   This information was given to me by my late mother in law who always spoke about her Mom in law as being the daughter of the bandmaster Kenneth J Alford.
I would be very interested to hear whatever information you have on him.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:11 AM

Sorry to drift "off thread" a bit,but as a keen amateur genealogist I am interested in the idea of "Mudcatters" discovering family ties with each other,as the above suggests. Indeed,following a chance remark about unusual Christian names on this forum, by regular poster " Will Fly", I discovered that we are second cousins !Thus it would be most gratifying if a familial link is actually established between Ann and Pinette .

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:53 PM

To guest Pinette
Much as I would like to find a new relative I dont think that is the case. My Grandfathers Daughter's were Sheila, Paula and Josie. There was no Violet. You may not be aware that his actual surname was not Alford, which was a penname. Could this be where confusion has arisen. Let me know if you have any further information. There is a book detailing my grandfather's life. 'Colonel Bogey to the Fore' by John Trendell, published by the Blue Band Magazine. It will give you all the details of his life.

To Ian Fyvie
I am really delighted to hear that his work is still inspiring people
Mrs S

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Pinette
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:09 PM

To Ms Scarecrow
Thanks so much for your info. My late Mom-in-law always believed that her husband Lawrie Atkinson was the son of John Herbert Atkinson and Violet Alford, the daughter of Kenneth Alford, the composer who wrote Colonel Bogey, etc while in The Royal Marines. During my research I found that his real name was Frederick Joseph Ricketts. As I have never found any info on his personal life I could not make the connection. Now I know why......there probably wasn't any. Could you please give me some information regarding your Mother in South Africa (names, dates, her husbands name etc) as it would make very interesting reading and possibly shed some light onto how this mix up might have occurred.
Thanks

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:12 PM

McGrath - and THAT matched up with WHAT tune?

Matches up with a kind of musical flourish that bands do before getting into the tune. There's probably a technical term for it, but I don't know it.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:04 PM

You can get the tune of this 'flourish' if you sing it, as we used to in my long-since schooldays, as -

'Where was the engine driver when the boiler blew? —

They found his BOLLOCKS
A thousand miles away   
Floating way down in Hudson Bay.
Floating, they found them floating
And so we had them for dinner today.'

Not a version that makes much sense; but doesn't appear to have been quoted on this thread before, so perhaps worth record. & it does start with the 'flourish'.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:29 PM

Our city has four brass bands. I've heard three of those play Kenneth Alford tunes in the last two years. His work lives on with vengeance Mrs S!

Try listening to his compositions "Holyrood" especially - excellent. And Spirit of St George?
Great Little Army?

The Genealogy theme .....

I hope people appreciate the link made in this thread!!

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:24 PM

Hi Pinette
I hope I've got the dates right. As far as I know my grandmother went out to South Africa in about 1948 after Kenneth J Alford died. My mother followed shortly after or possibly at the same time. She was unmarried at that time . She returned a year to 18months later still unmarried. She married my father William Mathews in 1954. My Grandmother remained in South Africa until 1959 or60 when she came back, she died in 1961.
Hope this helps

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:44 PM

Then there was:

BOLLOCKS, and the same to you,
BOLLOCKS, they make a damned good stew,
BOLLOCKS, mixed up with scallops,
And a nice tasty arsehole or two.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:51 PM

In the 60s, kids were singing:

Comet! It makes your teeth turn green
Comet! It tastes like gasoline
Comet! It makes you vomit
So get some Comet, and vomit today.

Subject: RE: Col Bogey march question
From: GUEST,Pinette
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:59 PM

Ms Scarecrow
Okay, great. Last questions...... Your Grandmother, who was married to Kenneth Alford...........what was her name and maiden name. Any idea where in South Africa she and your Mom lived?

Thanks again for all your patience. It has been much appreciated
All the best