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BS: Atwood was right

rea 09 May 02 - 10:54 PM
katlaughing 10 May 02 - 12:48 AM
RichM 10 May 02 - 08:59 AM
Mrrzy 10 May 02 - 09:01 AM
catspaw49 10 May 02 - 09:09 AM
katlaughing 10 May 02 - 09:20 AM
Amos 10 May 02 - 09:38 AM
Bobert 10 May 02 - 09:41 AM
irishajo 10 May 02 - 09:52 AM
katlaughing 10 May 02 - 10:45 AM
artbrooks 10 May 02 - 10:49 AM
Deda 10 May 02 - 10:59 AM
Grab 10 May 02 - 01:47 PM
catspaw49 10 May 02 - 01:50 PM
Ebbie 10 May 02 - 02:24 PM
GUEST 10 May 02 - 07:36 PM
GUEST 10 May 02 - 07:36 PM
rangeroger 10 May 02 - 09:22 PM
Mark Cohen 11 May 02 - 04:05 AM
GUEST 11 May 02 - 07:22 AM
kendall 11 May 02 - 07:51 AM
GUEST 11 May 02 - 01:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 May 02 - 02:00 PM
kendall 11 May 02 - 02:08 PM
GUEST 11 May 02 - 02:25 PM
kendall 11 May 02 - 04:08 PM
GUEST 11 May 02 - 04:10 PM
kendall 11 May 02 - 05:31 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 May 02 - 05:39 PM
GUEST 11 May 02 - 05:43 PM
RichM 11 May 02 - 06:21 PM
artbrooks 11 May 02 - 06:36 PM
kendall 11 May 02 - 09:42 PM
Hrothgar 11 May 02 - 10:51 PM
kendall 12 May 02 - 08:34 AM
catspaw49 12 May 02 - 12:04 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 May 02 - 12:14 PM
RichM 12 May 02 - 12:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 May 02 - 12:29 PM
GUEST 13 May 02 - 12:40 PM
GUEST,James 13 May 02 - 01:01 PM
catspaw49 13 May 02 - 01:32 PM
Wesley S 13 May 02 - 01:40 PM
katlaughing 13 May 02 - 03:13 PM

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Subject: Atwood was right
From: rea
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:54 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/ A55893-2002May8.html (Single-Sex Education Gets Boost - Bush Plan Would Reverse Key Policy)

so, apparently, the era of the Handmaiden's Tale is coming. ohhhhh help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 May 02 - 12:48 AM

Oh yes, we wouldn't want the "extraneous distraction" of one half of our citizenry now would we? What a bunch of shite! Let's hope it rocks people out of their self-centered stupour long enough to make a change and tell Bush et alia where to get off.

Thanks, rea

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: RichM
Date: 10 May 02 - 08:59 AM

Why not give it a chance?
As long as the school adheres to some kind of academic standard,let a thousand kinds of school exist...


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:01 AM

I know this is going to sound odd coming from me, but single-sex education in a country so overanxious about sex is not a bad idea. The main issue is discrimination and public funding...


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:09 AM

Hey.......Sure.......No problem...........Separate but equal worked really well in the past, so let's do it again!   Okay then.....Who's next?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:20 AM

That's right, Spaw...get them all apart, then start in on the racial diferences! Bastards!


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Amos
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:38 AM

Well, I agree with ya in principle, but I do have to say that I think seventh grade woulda gone a lot better for me academically if it hadn'ta been for that Ariana Walker gal who sat in the third row practising early development. And I can't say that I learned a thing from her, either!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Bobert
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:41 AM

Well, on the surface, this looks pretty crappy. But under the surface it looks very crappy. Next thing it will be uniforms. Then goosestepping. Then cameras in everyone's bedroom making sure that folks ain't have sex in a manner that is not in the manual.

The powers-at-be have determined that education isn't as important as it once was for the working class. Here, kid, leran this stuff so you can pass this test and don't let us catch you thinking, ya' here?


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: irishajo
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:52 AM

I don't see anything in the article that indicates the Federal government will be promoting gender segregation. The whole point is to allow school districts more flexibility in choosing whether or not they'd like to have all girl or all boy schools. If the government starts forcing segregation, that's a problem. But something that is meant to allow parents a choice doesn't bother me. To me this does not look like the beginnings of Atwood's fantasy being realized.

I doubt many would argue that boys and girls learn differently. I liked the last part of the article:

At Baltimore's Western High School, which has admitted only girls throughout its 159-year history, 94 percent of the students go on to college.

Landa McLaurin, the school's principal and a 1968 Western graduate, attributes the school's success not just to an enrollment policy that essentially bars students who were weak academically in middle school, but also to the confidence girls derive from going to school with one another.

"They're free to exercise a great deal of leadership traits," McLaurin said. "They are aggressive academically and athletically. They want to excel in every area, and they don't feel inhibited. They emerge as leaders. In coed environments, girls are less apt to do that."

That's a result I can applaud.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 May 02 - 10:45 AM

Yeah, wouldn't want those who choke on testing and are "weak academically in middle school" to have any chance of going to a decent school, do we...thank the gawdess my daughters did not have schools with that kind of attitude.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 May 02 - 10:49 AM

I was listening to a report on the Citadel on NPR this morning; this year's graduating class includes 7 black women, 7 white women, 3 asian women and 3 "international" women, whatever that means. Half a dozen years ago the Citadel had to be dragged into the twentieth century by a law suit (or maybe it was only a threatened law suit...I can't remember and its not important). I'm sure that the white males who previously had it, and certain other famous military schools, as private bastions of exclusivity would have prefered not changing and continuing to "go to school with one another".

Segregation is segregation. If these new regulations "will help school districts provide all-boys and all-girls classes and schools without fear of running afoul of federal law", as the article cited above says, than we are legalizing discrimination on the basis of sex. So much for the Equal Right Amendment. If parents are allowed to place their children in single-sex classes, why shouldn't they be allowed to place them in single-race classrooms? Or schools? Or busses? I wonder if those "separate but equal" water fountains are still in storage some place?


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Deda
Date: 10 May 02 - 10:59 AM

I went to all-girls schools between the ages of 13 and almost-18; one of the schools I hated and the other one I loved, but I got a great education in most areas, and I'm relatively fearless about voicing my opinions in mixed company. I think single-gender classes can be a very successful model. Of course "separate but equal" was a complete disgrace when it was used to suppress blacks, but I really don't think this is in any way comparable to that. I've taught middle-school kids and I think they're probably much better off being segregated at that age, and for several years after. Kids need social interaction with the opposite sex, and they need education but they don't need them in the same place.

The thing I thought was hair-raising social control in the Atwood book was the suggestion that all divorce was biblically forbidden, so we'd all be forced to return to our first spouses. Yikes! Talk about widespread misery!


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Grab
Date: 10 May 02 - 01:47 PM

Bobert, most schools in Britain have uniforms. Yeah, the goose-stepping between classes and lessons on "Final Solution 101" is a real problem for us over here. ;-) (PS. send me that manual, there may be some interesting bits I've not seen before ;-)

As for Rea's comments, gawd help us. Attwood's book had nothing at all like this - lack of education for women wasn't the issue in that book, it was deprivation of ALL human rights.

If girls and boys are educated _better_ than each other, such that one group is more suited to life after school than the other, then this is definitely grounds for complaint. That was the problem with black-and-white segregation. However, everyone knows (and I don't mean "this is a convenient pseudo-fact", all studies on education have proved it) that girls and boys learn differently. They find different teaching methods easier to follow, which affects their choice of subjects to study, and teaching on a "one-size-fits-all" basis either puts off one gender or forces the other to receive sub-standard education on that subject. Why then should it be a problem for them to be educated separately, so that they can each receive the best quality of education instead of one group disrupting the other?

For instance, there are less women working in engineering and science than men. Would it not therefore be an opportunity for girls' schools to concentrate on teaching science in such a way that girls find it interesting and want to continue with it in their professional lives? Traditional science teaching is known to be off-putting to girls, whilst boys respond well to it, so teach girls in a different way which they respond to, right? No need to change how to teach boys, bcos they obviously respond well to how it works already, so altering teaching methods for boys would disadvantage them. Similarly there are less men interested in nursing and in being homebuilders - teaching to encourage boys to develop that side of their personalities would also be good.

And as irishajo says, it's up to the parents to choose what they think is right for their children. If parents can choose to send their children to a religious school, it's a helluva smaller step to sending their children to a single-sex one. At least a single-sex one only selects by gender and doesn't limit the curriculum or the range of subjects you can think about, unlike schools in some states (*cough* Kansas! *cough*). Parents can choose single-sex or they can choose mixed, and it's the choice of the parents how they want their children educated. All this says is that the government's giving them that choice instead of taking the choice away from them.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 May 02 - 01:50 PM

It certainly appears to be just another option on the surface, but as Bobertz said, just below the surface.............

The problem here folks is that once you start this stuff and begin to give up what you've won, it's an even shorter step to the next level and shorter again to the next. And soon with trumpets blaring and flags gaily waving we will be marching back to the 19th Century!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 May 02 - 02:24 PM

It is my impression that the concept of public (in the American sense) school for all was a giant leap in development, an experiment, let's say. We could also say the experiment has failed; at least, in some cities in the U.S. conditions in the public schools are dangerous to both faculty and student body.

Good or bad, maybe we are in the process of going back to small-cell schools, schools where we can control the student/teacher ratio, where we can be responsive to the needs of individuals and where the schools are community based? It is certainly true that secular charter schools are already omnipresent.

I should imagine that if we are indeed in that process, then same-sex schooling will be just another option.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 02 - 07:36 PM

A visit to this website will provide a quick overview on the claims about gender specific learning outcome debates.

The AAUW is a good source for the research on girls. I am ashamed to admit I don't know who the good source is for research on boys.

There does seem to be agreement about one thing regarding girls only education that is of benefit (but which of course has never been researched), and that is girls and teachers of girls report the students have much higher self esteem.

I like the idea of allowing public charter schools to do all boy and all girl schools, so long as they are given adequate resources. It is another way to give parents and students more choice in public education. I wouldn't favor anything more than that though.

Private schools have been segregating genders for some time, and would seem a good choice for research, but I don't know that any has been done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 02 - 07:36 PM

Sorry-here is the website:

http://tsw.odyssey.on.ca/~balancebeam/genderdialogue/educators.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: rangeroger
Date: 10 May 02 - 09:22 PM

Ah yes. We continue to dance the Republican two-step.

One step forward and two steps back.

rr


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:05 AM

I know, I know, it's easy to jump up and down and rant at Big Brother and the Republicans. But I went to Central High School of Philadelphia (as did my father), a public all-male high school which was an academic "magnet" school. We didn't have small intimate classes, fancy equipment, or a school full of overprivileged students. What we did have was dedicated teachers, an expectation of hard work, and a tradition that went back to 1836, when Central was founded as the second-oldest public high school in the country. I believe over 90% of my classmates went to college. We also won the city football championship. Down the street was the Philadelphia High School for Girls, also an academic magnet school.

Now Central is coed. But as far as I was concerned, I appreciated the chance to start my social life at my own pace, and not be subject to the constant adolescent tribal mating rituals until I was ready for them. I suppose other people would have a different opinion. But I don't think their opinion should necessarily take preference over mine. I think the choice should be available. Considering the sad state of public education, maybe an alternative choice isn't such a bad idea.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:22 AM

Mark, there is a lot of disagreement among progressive left educators as to what constitutes the best education and education strategies, so I wouldn't be too concerned about coming off like the Republicans. The truth is, the progressives did have a tremendous amount of influence over the education system for the better part of the last 30 years, and have only managed to make an even worse mess of it. I say that as someone who works in the public education trenches, and politically is very far to the left.

The most current research does show that the real barriers to academic success in public education are the same for boys as they are for girls: classes that are too large, classrooms and schools that are inadequately staffed funded, poverty and racism.

There is a reason why Catholic private school education is taking off again, and that so many non-Catholic students of color in the inner cities are attending them. They do a better job of educating children of color than the public schools do. I really regret not sending my daughter to Catholic high school, and she (an 11th grader) now regrets not going to the Catholic school which offered her a nearly full scholarship.

As to uniforms, my daughter the rabid individualist, never minded wearing hers. She loved being able to not think about what to wear. The laziness factor is very appealing with uniforms! Just fall out of bed & into the uniform, and voila! You're ready for school. I wish public school students had to wear them too, as they do everywhere else in the world except here in the US. Life is so much easier with uniforms, and while nothing eliminates class from the equation, having everyone look the same does make for one less thing for wealthier students to get away with mocking poorer students for. And that is A Good Thing in my book. Not to mention the fact that the designer clothing industry would sell less of their product produced in third world countries by child slave labor. Another Good Thing.

I've always thought the argument against uniforms was like arguing for having the freedom to choose between a hundred bad products in the sugar cereal isle. It has always seemed like a capitalist argument to me, rather than a democratic one. I consider uniforms much more democratic than the capitalist driven choices about fashion in the schools. But that's me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: kendall
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:51 AM

When I was in school, you were judged by your clothes. My neighborhood was not only on the wrong side of the tracks, we were so far out, there were no tracks at all.I wore hand me downs all through school. Uniforms would have been a big help in keeping the classism under control. As far as Catholic schools go, I have heard many horror stories of abusive nuns. No thanks.

There was a boy who just would not behave in school. They expelled him. He went to another school, same thing. After being expelled from all the schools in the area, he was forced to go to a military school. They couldn't handle him either, so, he was sent home. His father, at the end of his rope, enrolled him in a Catholic school. Suddenly, he was an "A" student; no more dicipline problems, and his father was amazed. Father went to see the boy's teacher; a gentle, kind nun, and asked her what was the story with his son. She said there is no story, he is an excellent student. Father tells her about his history, so, she suggested he talk to his son and ask HIM. Father goes home, boy is in hhis room doing his homework. Father goes in and says, "Son, you were kicked out of half a dozen schools, now, at the Catholic school, you are well behaved. What is the reason"? Boy says, "The first day I walked into that Catholic school, I saw this guy hanging on a cross, and I knew THEY meant business."


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 02 - 01:41 PM

With all due respect Kendall, I think if "hearing many horror stories of abusive nuns" is the extent of your experience with Catholic education, I'd suggest you are talking out of your lower orifice.

I have about equal experience (both as student and educator) with public and Catholic education. Neither has a corner on success or horror. Life is never that simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 02 - 02:00 PM

I can't see where people see this as a matter of principle. I went to a single sex school, my wife went to a single sex school, our son went to a mixed school. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways. One size does not fit all.

The analogy with separate schools for black and white pupils just doesn't stand up, so far as I can see. For one thing most black and white children aren't brothers and sisters living in the same houses, with the same parents and the same family income between them.

I suspect that a mixed system might possibly on balance be a little bit better for the education of boys, and single sex system better on balance for girls. I don't know if any research has been done to determine whether that is true.

As for uniforms, the impression I get is that if a uniform isn't imposed by the school authorities, a uniform gets invented by the children, and enforced by what is rather euphemistically called "peer pressure". Either way kids who don't conform tend to have a rough time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: kendall
Date: 11 May 02 - 02:08 PM

Guest, dont tell me what I have heard; you wer'nt there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 02 - 02:25 PM

Kendall, you might try mellowing out here. I'm not trying to tell you what you've heard. What I said (with tongue in cheek) was that what you heard didn't match my personal experience of Catholic education.

Do you have any personal experience with Catholic education besides the horror stories? I'm happy to be proved wrong about you Kendall. (BTW, have you tried repeating: "it's only a conversation on the Internet"?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: kendall
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:08 PM

I have had NO personal experience with Catholic education. All I have, as I said, is many statements from people who were raised in Catholic schools. To suggest that I am "speaking from my lower orifice" is an insult. I went to regular schools, and, I had at least two frustrated old maids who hated boys. They made our lives miserable. So, I would not suggest that ONLY Catholic schools mis treat students, but, so far, the abuse that I am aware of took place MOSTLY in Catholic schools. Wanna take a poll?


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:10 PM

No poll necessary kendall. Your self-proclaimed ignorance of Catholic education speaks resoundingly for itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: kendall
Date: 11 May 02 - 05:31 PM

You just refuse to see exactly what I said, Why? Do I need a catholic education to understand what is being said to me by people who DO have that education? I wasn't with Columbus either, but, I'm sure the world is round. Are you trying to tell me that there is NO abuse of students in catholic schools? That those people are lying about it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 02 - 05:39 PM

I think we're wisest when we base our opinions on our own direct experience. I went to Catholic schools, my wife went to Catholic schools; they were good schools, run by good people, and we both had a good education.

There are bad schools around, and bad things happen in some schools, all kinds of schools. But that's another matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 02 - 05:43 PM

You are referring to second hand information, or "hearsay" evidence as it is called in legal terms. I am speaking from personal experience when I say (as I did in my original post above):

"I have about equal experience (both as student and educator) with public and Catholic education. Neither has a corner on success or horror. Life is never that simple."

I am not denying what you said. I am simply challenging what I perceive in your post as an implied suggestion that what you were stating was factual truth, as opposed to hearsay evidence reminiscent of urban legend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: RichM
Date: 11 May 02 - 06:21 PM

I went to an all boys, Catholic high school run by the Oblate Fathers of Mary Immaculate. I think they had good standards both intellectually and in teaching good personal conduct. Though I am no longer a Catholic, for personal reasons not related to my education or experience there, I can say that the education standards were good.

Rich McCarthy


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 May 02 - 06:36 PM

This is a good discussion, but don't feed the trolls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: kendall
Date: 11 May 02 - 09:42 PM

Now I see what you are trying to say. I may have exaggerated a bit when I said "many", but, this is not a court, so, "hearsay" is not an issue here.I have no reason to disbelieve what those people told me. What possible reason could they have for making up such stories? Anyway, I guess I did make a judgement on the strength of what they told me, and, I certainly dont mean to condemn all catholic schools. If I offended, I apologize.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Hrothgar
Date: 11 May 02 - 10:51 PM

Is somebody going to teach the little bastards to read and write, at least to a higher standard than journalists?


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: kendall
Date: 12 May 02 - 08:34 AM

My ex brother-in-law was a teacher in a local middle school, and he told me that most of his time was taken up just keeping order. No wonder the kids cant read their diplomas! The Army doesn't even want them; you must be able to read and write to operated modern weapons. By way of balance, I've also been told that keeping order in catholic schools is much less of a problem because the school's authority to discipline is not questioned by parents. More "hearsay"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 May 02 - 12:04 PM

I suggest we also need publicly funded magnet schools for Aryan White Supremacists also. It's only right if we pass the law! If you can have one, you must allow the other.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 02 - 12:14 PM

Given that not too long ago, the majority percentage of American high-school kids questioned could not find their own home town on an unmarked map of their own STATE, ANYTHING you people try to improve your education system can't possibly hurt!

And if that doesn't work, try something else...

Some of the most stable, well educated, coolest people I know came from seperate, private schools... Some from public mixed schools...


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: RichM
Date: 12 May 02 - 12:27 PM

Most people want their children to benefit from their educational process. Whether one-size-fits-all is debatable. I would like to see the voucher system introduced, where each child is allocated an annual sum of money equal to the average spent per child in the public school system.Then parents would decide where to spend the voucher, from a choice of schools that meet at least some minimum standards.

Let a thousand flowers bloom! (and yes, I know the source of that quote)


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 02 - 12:29 PM

"A thousand flowers"? Inflation gets in everywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 02 - 12:40 PM

As someone who taught in Catholic schools and was educated in them as well..I saw nothing of what Kendall refers to. Schools are not good or bad, kind or cruel based on the religion of the teacher. I had very good experiences as both a student and as a teacher. I got a well rounded education, I was not beaten, threatened,indoctrinated or sexually abused, nor did I ever recieve corporal punishment or witness anyone else subjected to this method of discipline. I think there is a great deal of narrow mindedness when it comes to perceptions of Catholic Schools". However, I was subject to a rigorous and consistent method of education. Students who deprived others of the education being offered were not tolerated, no matter who the parents were. I feel fortunate to have had this wonderful education and even more fortunate to be a teacher with this system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: GUEST,James
Date: 13 May 02 - 01:01 PM

I taught for many years in Catholic schools and discipline certainly was questioned by Parents. In fact, discipline was seldom meted out before informing or meeting with Parents. There was no corporal punishment and few wxpulsions but expectations were high and students who were disruptive were dealt with and reminded that they could not deprive others of a respectful environment in which to learn. My own child was subjected to verbal abuse in Public schools, he was bullied, robbed, beaten and had many extorted from him. No disciplinary action was ever taken. He is now in Catholic School ...perhaps the same things will happen but they will not go unchallenged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 02 - 01:32 PM

Along with the White Supremacist schools, I think we will need to separate the males and females into subgroups as well. There would be a definite need for the "Alpha Male" magnet school as well as the "Happy Homemaker" girls school. The Alpha Male bunch can get all the latest business and leadership stuff as well as a top athletic program as well as high school ROTC. Although the firearm training would be good the aadvanced weapon courses will be reserved for the White Aryan schools.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 May 02 - 01:40 PM

I attended a Catholic grade school for five years. I never saw any of the nuns lay a hand on a child. I even asked three former classmates that I'm still in touch with if they had ever seen any of the punishments that a lot of people talk about { rulers across the knuckles,ect } and none of them remember anything like that also. This was in the early 60's. I'm sure it's possible that things like that went on but I've yet to meet anyone with any personal experiences to talk about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Atwood was right
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 May 02 - 03:13 PM

I'll ask Rog, but I am sure I've heard him mention the nuns and their disciplinary measures with a ruler across the knuckles. He went to a bilingial (French/English) parochial school all the way through to high school.

I went to a public school where the learning environment was respectful and fools were not tolerated, either. I've always felt my schooling was as good as any parochial school at the time and that the standards were so high, I received the equivalent of a college education through high school.

I know a lot of schools are not this way now, but turning the clock back is not going to remedy the problem. Niether are vouchers. What happens to the kids whose parents are not involved and don't make informed choices, or are even not present, and/or cannot provide them transportation to their school of choice?

Teachers have no respect, no backing of administration, and low pay while being expected to fill in the gaps in children's entire lives. It would be better to work on those things than to scurry around and separate by gender as class, race, etc. will be sure to follow.

NPR's Talk of the Nation had an hour segment on this today. I didn't listen to all of it, but found it ironic that the Bush toady was on there from a civil rights office in the Dept. of Education talking about what a movement there is among educators and parents to have same-sex schools and how they will be there to make sure the anti-discrimination laws are upheld. I am surprised some of the people on the right haven't expressed a concern about promoting homosexuality by having same-sex schools! From what I've seen, that's not a stretch for some supporters of this administration.

kat


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