BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?

Subject: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Red Eye
Date: 16 May 02 - 12:20 PM

As we approach the first world cup of the millenium, will you be tuning in the telly or tuning up your instuments?

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 May 02 - 02:33 PM

Well I'll be watching plenty of footy, but I may be playing box or bouzouki as well. They're not mutually exclusive watching TV and playing music.

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 May 02 - 02:44 PM

World Cup what ???

Doug C

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:15 PM

Well the pubs tend to turn the telly up when there's a match, which gets in the way of the music. But this time the live matches will be at some God forsaken hour of tyhe early morning. Though I imagine there'll be programmes in the evening with highlights and that.

Anyway here's the official website. It's a lot more fun than the Olympics anyway.

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: nosluap57
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:26 PM

I'll be watching most definitely!!

It's the only time I get to see decent football in Texas!

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:27 PM

Never watched a whole game of footy/soccer in my life, and I don't intend to start now. What I find so sad is that some people take it so seriously. I'm ashamed to say it has even been the cause of some people dying, in the town of my birth, Glasgow. No game is worth a life, so I suggest that anyone who's life is ruled by football, or any other game heeds the old slogan. GET A LIFE sad person.
DARFC....Giok

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Grab
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:27 PM

I'll go for the third Timothy Leary option. Drop out. And hope that the major teams (especially England) do as well, so there's less pissed-up football yobs hanging around.

Graham.

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:35 PM

Grab,

Re: England. The "pissed-up yobs" are only aggresive when they lose. They just get so happy that they fall over, when winning.

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:38 PM

Oh! football. That World Cup (yawn!!!). Guess I'll be sticking to tuning the instruments.

Doug C

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:48 PM

Hopefully the concertina won't need tuning for another few years yet, but I'm sure I can find some reason to miss the football. Thankfully I don't watch much telly of any description, so I won't miss it.

Andrew

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 16 May 02 - 06:30 PM

Well it may be a yawn to you folks, but there are lots of people in the US who are pretty excited by this year's team. (Of course, most people in the US couldn't care less...but that's OK.) In my time zone I may have a slightly better chance at seeing the live games at a more tolerable hour.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Gareth
Date: 16 May 02 - 06:45 PM

As a Welshman I must comment. We had a similar discuission in the " Royal Oak " last night.

Now I don't know what the rest of the world will do but the Welsh rules are clear.

' When England play the South Africans at Rugby - Well we support the South Africans.

When England play the West Indies at Cricket - Well we support the West Indies.

And when England play anybody at Soccer - Well we support the Police !'

Or as me old Butty, Alf said last night, "Aye I'll be watching, to cheer on Sweden, Argentina etc....."

Gareth

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 02 - 06:57 PM

But what about when the English play the Germans? That's the tricky one...

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:03 PM

Gareth..thanks for the racist input. Will it never end?

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:05 PM

Gareth,

Your 'national identity' appears to revolve around 'hating' England. Some Scots have the same view.

Nations that define themselves by hating someone else are somewhat unhealthy.

I'd suggest a course in 'growing up'

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Gareth
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:13 PM

Anon Guest Yup, and if you lived here, or have had the misfortune to meet a drunken crowd of English "Fans" you would know why !!!

Gareth

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:25 PM

And Cardiff fans are better? I heard a radio discussion today about black players in the game some years ago. Black West Brom players regularly had bananas thrown on the pitch. Now, my team have regularly had Welsh internationals, Hennessy, Leek, Page..would you condone English fans hurling leeks on the pitch whenever they played? Bury your learned prejudices, hack off your chip.Life becomes much more fun if you do.Inclusive is better than exclusive. What do Welsh fans throw on the pitch when English players play for them? Or do they just value what they bring to the team?

Subject: RE: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:37 PM

The best way to deal with this kind of contest is to start off neutral, and then decide on a team whose way of playing you like, and then you back them.

And the supporters can be a factor there as well - you wouldn't really want anything to happen to give some of those lads satisfaction. (That's what I had in mind with my last post.) Fortunately I think the fact it's happening in Japan and Korea might cut down that sort of thing.

Of course you can always turn your nose up at it all, but where's the fun in that? That's almost as sad as thinking it really matters.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST,nager
Date: 16 May 02 - 08:43 PM

Ah, the glorious World Cup.. it comes around every four years and is bigger and better than anything else.. even the Olympics. Here in the Land of Oz we will get to see most matches live at a wondefully civilised hour... 4.30pm.7.30pm and 9.00pm. Australia failed to make it this year again but I have two fallback positions: England (where I was born) and Republic of Ireland (my parents). Fallback positions are shared by many Aussies as lots of us are happy migrants from somewhere else that is football mad. As for putting music on hold: I do most of my playing in the early mornings before heading off to work so the W/Cup won't affect my practice. But I won't be hitting any folk clubs in June. Well, it's only one month every four years and I don't think the folk movement will be shuddering too much at my absence!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: michaelr
Date: 16 May 02 - 08:55 PM

I for one am looking forward to the Cup. It was great fun when they had it here in California, and the US team keeps getting better. As to whom I'll cheer for: The team that plays better (which will change from match to match) and the players with the best moves!

Also very nuch enjoyed the Women's World Cup a couple of years ago. Did you?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 16 May 02 - 08:59 PM

I'll be watching as much as I can manage although the live games will be televised at odd hours here in Canada too. Good luck to all teams it is a wonderful competition and I can only imagine how it must feel to represent your country at such an event. It seems we only ever hear the bad stories when it comes to football fans but I have to say credit to the Bayer Leverkusen fans who stood and applauded the Real Madrid team on their lap of honour after Leverkusen were beaten by Madrid in yesterdays Champions League final. Anyway COME ON IRELAND!!! Den

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 May 02 - 09:11 PM

I hope France win.john

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Big John
Date: 16 May 02 - 10:01 PM

Ah, sure isn't it great to have a civilised discussion like this and have have the eejits going at each others' throats and not a drop of blood anywhere. It must be Ireland's turn to win this time, so yob off you foreigners. Did you ever play GAA football? Now, ther's a man's game for you.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: sophocleese
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:11 PM

I'm looking forward to it. I'm learning how to set the timer on my parent's T.V. (they're the ones with cable) and buying up video tapes every time I get a chance. Personally I like watching most teams without getting too fussed about who I'm watching. Soccer played with such skill and deftness that the players appear to be in telepathic communication is a joy to see. I have enjoyed watching the Portugese goalie, Vitor Baia (damn he is GORGEOUS!)buthe may not be playing as much this season because of knee or back trouble. DAMN!! Usually I decide who I cheer for after the first round when I've seen the teams and end up liking one particular style of play above another. I'm a lousy market for blinkered fandom.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:23 PM

Big John, isn't G.A.A. Football that game where they don't actually hava a score. Just that the side with the smaller casualty list wins.

Anyway, any pastime masquerading as a sport or game that requires two lots of people to chase a ball about a field should be abolished in the interests of reducing the possibility of conflict.... Looks round, sees the crowd of sports fans, united at last, baying at his heels, runs for cover... HELP!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 17 May 02 - 03:18 AM

I enjoy watching the game even more now that I've been a referee (have gotten all the way up to the 10-12 year olds--those games are fun because the kids are old enough to make the games interesting but not old enough to have an attitude!) Watching the US/Uruguay match last weekend, I was appalled at the incompetence of the referee. I think even I could have made some of those calls he missed! And that's not a comment coming from a partial US fan (we won the match), but from someone who believes that good officiating -- calling fouls and giving cards when they're deserved -- makes the game much more enjoyable. Because then the players have to rely on skill, not mayhem and meanness. But what do I know? I'm only a Yank in paradise!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:11 AM

"Did you ever play GAA football? Now, ther's a man's game for you." You want to see the Crossmaglen women's team playing!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:54 AM

Okay.....Mark, I knew this subject would eventually come up again. As you recall, because you carded me for it, in the past I have been less than charitable in my feelings toward Soccer. I believe I have stated that it's played by those too stupid to use their hands....or words to that effect................Okay, please pass the salt while I eat my words..............

Michael has played U-10 for a year now and (God help me) I have come to be very involved in the damn game! We go to Columbus Crew games, have some Crew gear, ol' Dad even has a matching "Soccer Dad" shirt to Michael's team shirts...............oy..................It gets worse too. I find myself deeply involved in his games, am an assistant coach, organized this weekend's fundraiser (carwash), and the rest is just too embarassing to go into...........

Okay.....It's a cool game. Michael has a great coach who emphasizes doing your best and learning and having fun over winning. They are working really hard on playing a passing game instead of "bumblebee soccer" and are actually doing well with it. Michael plays at foreward and midfield and has done really well.....He had no skills at all going in and now can always be counted on to be open to pass to as he plays very well away from the ball. He hasn't scored himself, but has had over a dozen good setups and has had some great turnarounds as well. The team is about 50-50 in the win/lose column but that's far better than I would have expected. Michael and 3 other boys from "Black Thunder" also fill in on another team that has had trouble fielding a full team so he's getting a lot of field time.

We play a fall and a spring season and rarely do the kids play with the same team here as opposed to most of the Lancaster teams where the kids tend to play together for years. Hart is a fine coach and this is of course an "everyone plays" league. He is excellent at being sure everyone gets playing time (and not just a few minutes on defense). We have a great group of parents with this team as well and when Hart puts in our weakest kid at goal (the boy loves to play but can't find the ground with his feet) they all cheer heartily for him (while silently praying). Hart plays kids at two positions every game and even if they are horrendous, they do improve. The boys come over and do a cheer in front of the bleachers before the game and the parents do a victory arch (win or lose) after the game.

So Mark, take your damn card back and know that Soccer has another convert.

Spaw
Soccer Dad
Asst. Coach, "Black Thunder"

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Teru
Date: 17 May 02 - 08:16 AM

Is this FIFA Forum ?

I sometimes tried to get the ticket in vain.

There will be a meeting I had to attend in Sapporo a week before a match between Germany and England. However, I gave up visiting there because of "tight security". I don't worry about hooligans!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: JedMarum
Date: 17 May 02 - 08:56 AM

so, England qualified this year??

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: JedMarum
Date: 17 May 02 - 09:03 AM

sorry - don;t throw things, I'm just kidding! Actually I'm a fan of English style soccer. Can't stand all the hype over the Brazilian style.

As to tuning my instruments or watching; I'll definately be doing both! Tuning banjo is a never ending job anyway.

There are disadvantaged to living on a musician's salary BUT there are definate advantages to working a musician's hours. Even though the games will be broadcast at some unGodly hours, I will be able to catch 'em - as long as I get cable installed by then.

Do any Americans know if the networks are broadcasting? Or will it all be ESPN? My friend Glenn Davis will be doing a lot of the broadcasting for ESPN.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 May 02 - 09:08 AM

The Welsh shouldn't worry about who to support in a Germany-England match in this championship. A look at the match schedule shows that this could not happen before the final (or playing for third place). A very unlikely outcome.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Bluebeard
Date: 18 May 02 - 12:28 AM

Some people think football (soccer)is a matter of life and death....it's much more important than that!

I grew up playing, watching and loving the sport. In Canada I'll be taping a lot and cheering for all the teams with Manchester City players in them (5 so far), especially Ireland. I often watch North American sports with the sound turned down as I practice, but that won't be happening with the World Cup !

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Teru
Date: 18 May 02 - 02:05 AM

Sorry, I made a mistake. The match to be held on 2 June in Sapporo should be "Sweden vs England". Anyway, I am not going there. Germany will fight Ireland !

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 18 May 02 - 02:33 AM

Jed, some of the matches will be televised on ABC, most on ESPN/ESPN2. Here is the complete World Cup U.S. TV schedule. Nice to have you on the team, 'Spaw! I'm a ref now because my stepson played AYSO soccer from age 5 and I enjoyed being the linesman (now called "assistant referee") for his games--so much so that his coach and the referee coordinator both cornered me and said, "Hey, you need to take the referee course." I just wish this damn knee would get better so I could put my yellow shirt back on...

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Big Tim
Date: 18 May 02 - 03:18 AM

I'll definitely be watching. My daughter, who supports France, flies out to Tokyo in a couple of weeks, so I'll be trying to see her on the telly!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 18 May 02 - 09:55 PM

Australia didn't make it (again!) so who cares? We'll just have to cuddle up to our Rugby World Cup and try to retain it next year.

Now there's agme worth watching - so long as they keep those bloody Northern Hemisphere rule-makers and referees under control!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST,Blues=Life on other computer
Date: 18 May 02 - 10:13 PM

Mark and Spaw, Ain't AYSO a kick in the grass? I'm the abnormal American who's been playing all my life. (And all here in the states). I started in NY at 9, played NCAA Div III at Wartburg College, and men's leagues til I got old and fat with bad knees. But the most fun the last 6 years has been coaching and refereeing for my kids. I ref'ed a championship U-8 game today, and it was a blast. U-12 and up aren't as much fun, mainly because the parents have all turned into buttheads by this point. Any questionable call is a travesty of justice, will keep their kids from getting a scholarship, and was obviously caused because of blindness on the part of your's truly. I usually get threats that I'm going to get my ass whupped if I do it again... threats that usually get quieter and then silent the closer I get to the "ass-whupper". There are advantages to being 6'4" and 230 lbs +. LOL I just smile and tell them to shut up or leave. The kids usually aren't nearly as much trouble as the parents...go figure.

Still, I love it.

Go USA!

(I can play guitar and watch at the same time)

Blues

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 18 May 02 - 10:19 PM

U-12 are my favorite games to ref, Blues. The kids are old enough to have some skill and make the games interesting, but not quite old enough (most of them, at least) to have an attitude. My old knees are keeping me in U8 for now, where I can walk the whole game! I did a girls U8 today, and there wasn't a single foul! Except for calling one keeper on each side for leaving the penalty area before throwing/punting the ball. But they won't do that again!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: michaelr
Date: 19 May 02 - 02:52 AM

So am I the only one who enjoyed the womens' cup?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 19 May 02 - 05:54 AM

Spaw, I've followed the game for over 50 years but what is "a turnaround"?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Red Eye
Date: 19 May 02 - 07:54 AM

I would say it's American slang for half-time. I reckon within twenty years America will be dominating football throught the world. Football is soccer to our American friends.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 May 02 - 09:43 AM

Yes I like the womens game too. It has a long way to go but I watch also to see if they will take their shirts off and the end (or in the case of the US team, when they score a goal). That's the sexist comment out of the way.

Now for the racist one. There was a programme on Channel 4 last night. A stand-up comic (who was half Iranian and half English) was talking about the match where Iran beat the USA. He said, "one half of me hates the Americans and the other half is exactly the same"

In truth the programme was very interesting as they were(minor) celebrities talking about the various clips of notable events. It brought it home that these events, thought thought by many to be pointless, like Gazza's tears and Pele's magic tended to be shared experencies.

The one where the Zaire player decided to run out of the 'wall' and take Brazil's free kick for them, is a particular example. Or Pak Do Ik scoring the goal that sent the mighty Italian team home in 1966. Baggio's penaly miss or even Chris Waddles's one, which I think the ball is still in orbit.

My favourite was David Platt's last minute winner against Belgium. I remember I shouted so loud, my wife, who was painting the ceiling, fell off the chair she was standing on.

I suspect that football fans at least will have these memories in common, where ever they live and whatever their prejudice. Even in Wales, Gareth *Smiles*.

I think it may be a good thing and may help to prevent us fighting each other, at football games or even in the real world?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 May 02 - 09:47 AM

Harvey, it's probably a term used only in the younger kids' games and maybe only around here for all I know. Basically it's a takeaway that stops a strong offensive drive and puts the ball back the other direction with the whole team supporting it.......Sorry, American ignorance here.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 May 02 - 09:49 AM

On second thoughts, thare was also the not so uplifting moments, like the poor footballer from Columbia who scored an unfortunate own goal, which was probably in part if not wholly responsible for his later murder.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Shields Folk
Date: 19 May 02 - 11:44 AM

Thats counter attack catspaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 May 02 - 11:46 AM

Thanks......but all of our kids know turnaround LOL!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 02 - 12:36 PM

takeaway? I've never heard that one except in connection with food. There's clearly a whole different vocabulary being evolved in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 May 02 - 12:45 PM

Yeah Kevin....You know how insular and king of the world we are so it's only right.........(:<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 02 - 04:21 PM

Much evolution of terms on this side of the puddle, which is not surprising at all. (After all we did change the name of the game!) I don't know if any of them are taking hold in other English-speaking countries as well. And since I live in Hawaii, some may not even be popular on the U.S. Mainland. Most Americans say "offsides" rather than "offside", because the former is well-known from our game of football. "Goal area" commonly becomes "goal box" or simply "the box". "Penalty area" is sometimes also "the box"; I've also heard "18-yard box". The "penalty area arc" is commonly called "the D". Goalkeepers are almost always called "goalies" (as in hockey). "Goal line" is frequently "end line", and of course "touch line" becomes "sideline".

I imagine the same sort of thing might occur if the English played baseball: "He struck a treble and won the match for his side!"

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 02 - 04:32 PM

And Kevin, "us Americans" would never use "takeaway" for food--it's takeout! I haven't heard "takeaway" used here; we still call it a "tackle". But I'm not surprised at that local usage, since in American football when you "tackle" a player he ends up on the ground. No doubt the coach wanted to make sure his kids didn't get the wrong idea and end up with a red card!

Aloha,
Mark

(Just for clarification, in AYSO we don't generally "give cards" (caution or send off) for players under the age of 12.)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 02 - 06:42 PM

Maybe if the US team were to do outstandingly in the World Cup the American words might start to catch on elsewhere.

"Tackle" means bring down the player in Rugby Football - it'd be one of the terms kept when that game was adapted to the version played in the States in space suits, rather than a local coinage.

Incidentally, does anybody in the USA play Rugby these days?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 May 02 - 06:59 PM

The football is a turn on - The songs are certainly a turn off. Any suggestions as to the worst World Cup songs?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 02 - 07:11 PM

Well "Nessum Dorma" wasn't at all bad.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 May 02 - 02:42 AM

But was it folk?

Like 'Back Home' was..............

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 May 02 - 03:18 AM

Well I have just got my world cup wallchart, according to some bullshit in the paper Nostradamus predicted an England win in the 2002 world cup, remarkable considering he lived 300 years before the game was invented! If you take my advice you will bet against England in every match, ie bet on whoever the are playing against in Win Singles. My money is on France to win the tournament (current best available odds =4/1).john

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Bert
Date: 20 May 02 - 03:22 AM

Well I'm rooting for the Americans, and I hope they've got the sense to field the Women's team!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 May 02 - 04:21 AM

gareth

i feel its unhealthy to tar everyone with the same brush

'you'd feel the same about drunken english fans'

i strongly dislike rowdy & antisocial behaviour by anyone, and have witnessed english fans at their worst both home and abroad, in fact these disgraceful displays [especially when in europe] have made me ashamed to be english

however, the roots of bigotry and racism arise from such sweeping statements, not all english people or soccer fans are yobs, nor all palestinians, israelis, muslims, catholics murderers

think again

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 May 02 - 07:06 AM

One of the handy things about the image of the English fans is that in previous tournaments it's had the effect of ensuring that the Irish and the Scots fans have tended to be on their best behaviour to spite them. Now that is a form of international rivalry to be welcomed. "So you think you're friendly? - right you bastards, we'll show you what friendly really means..."

As for songs, my favourite one was the Irish one when Jackie Chrlton was in chargee, which basically was sayin g wouldn't it be a right laugh if we surprised everyone and won the World Cup.

This year's one by Pete St John, "The Spirit of the Gael" is a wee bit solemn maybe, and lines like "Eternal as the shamrock's soul" are a bit mind-numbing. But they've cunningly put out a stirring version in Japanese which gets round problems like that, and should ensure a fair number of home supporters in Japan backing the Irish, to make up for any shortage of Irish fans who can get that far.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Escamillo
Date: 20 May 02 - 11:33 PM

British Mudcatters, I'll ask you a favor: try to move influences or invoke some gods so Argentina team suffers every kind of abuses, unfair penalties, someone who squeezes Riquelme's butt, and lots of kicks in their shin bones. That would be the only way to awake the people in Argentina and then we will have a true revolution, will declare independence from the IMF and the banks, and will kick politician's arses by thousands.

Thanks for anything you may do, even losing ! :)

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 May 02 - 03:09 AM

I think the lads will be doing their very best to oblige.

There is however a lot a respect for Argentina. The imfamous 'Hand of God' goal was of course featured high in the 100 World Cup Moments TV show.

More interesting was that Maradona's second wonder goal, in the same match, was voted THE best World Cup moment. This even though it evectivly put England out of the competition. I tended to agree with it too.

But if all we had to worry about was football, my friend...............Thoughts are with you.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 21 May 02 - 03:18 AM

I usually watch big games featuring English (?) teams and I shall have the dubious pleasure of watching England's third game while my disgruntled workmates are unable to. Yours selfishly the fB. PS I can't fathom national pride that turns to such bitterness either.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 02 - 03:57 AM

My place of work has announced that it intends to provide a tv for all employees to watch the games. All we want now is a bar and some live music and away we go.....

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 21 May 02 - 07:02 AM

Yes, McGrath, they do play Rugby in the States - and if the Yanks ever wake up to what a great game it is, the rest of us will be in trouble. They will wind up in Pool C or D - I think the American qualifiers will be the USA and Canada.

Pool A - Australia, Argentina, Europe 1, Europe 4, Africa 1

Pool B - France, Scotland, Oceania 1, Asia 1, Repechage 1

Pool C - South Africa, England, Oceania 2, America 2, Europe 3

Pool D - New Zealand, Wales, America 1, Europe 2, Repechage 2

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 02 - 07:27 AM

I'd think it more likely that if it ends with people in Argentina feeling their team has been cheated it'll just feed into the kind of depression that doesn't do anything. Whereas a victory, and one widely acclaimed as well deserved, could maybe set them up for Escamillo's true revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup 2002. Turn On or Turn Off?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 21 May 02 - 02:46 PM

Nope-never watched the game,never been to a game, played it once as an adult at Uni and someone broke their collar bone when they tried to body charge me.Don't have it on in the house, got no love of either. Like rugby, but can't play anymore. To me soccer is only about the big money. Don't care for this national identity business either-best team is best team.

I understand Gareth's humour and haven't taken offence-don't think he meant any. Been spat at, and threatened at Cardiff arms park by some foolish Welshmen who dishonoured their country and people by doing so, didn't take much offence and don't matter to me where people come from-only 2 types and 2 sub types, Good and mailnly good with a bit of bad, bad and mainly bad with a bit of good.(over simplified I know-but it illustrates what I mean)

If they spent the money generated by the world cup on helping child poverty, eradicating land mines, providing schools and hospitals in the 3rd world etc then I'd support it-but nope lots of people will get richer, many will get drunk and disorderly, and some will get hurt.Soccer players are overated and over paid-pity they don't pay nurses etc that sort of money for the work they do, come to that I wouldn't mind teachers and other people who skill is more important than kicking a silly ball around getting some decent money.You judge-would you sooner be stiched back together again by a nurse on a decent wage than lie there bleeding while some pratt with a silly hair do scores a goal?

Anyway who wants to see 11 blokes kissing each other all over a field?-Rather chase sheep!