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stories & songs about flags

CarolC 19 May 02 - 08:45 PM
Bert 19 May 02 - 09:18 PM
CarolC 19 May 02 - 09:57 PM
masato sakurai 19 May 02 - 11:07 PM
katlaughing 19 May 02 - 11:43 PM
masato sakurai 20 May 02 - 09:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 May 02 - 09:45 AM
katlaughing 20 May 02 - 09:48 AM
Mary in Kentucky 20 May 02 - 09:53 AM
CarolC 20 May 02 - 09:57 AM
Emma B 20 May 02 - 01:47 PM
greg stephens 20 May 02 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 20 May 02 - 11:24 PM
Micca 21 May 02 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 22 May 02 - 02:50 AM
GUEST,ozmacca 22 May 02 - 02:53 AM
Mr Happy 22 May 02 - 03:04 AM
Mr Happy 22 May 02 - 03:09 AM
Hrothgar 22 May 02 - 05:07 AM
masato sakurai 22 May 02 - 07:34 AM
greg stephens 22 May 02 - 08:01 AM
greg stephens 22 May 02 - 08:01 AM
masato sakurai 22 May 02 - 08:46 AM
Hrothgar 23 May 02 - 05:32 AM
GUEST,Adolfo 23 May 02 - 03:53 PM
CarolC 23 May 02 - 06:53 PM
CarolC 23 May 02 - 07:40 PM
GUEST,Adolfo 24 May 02 - 07:40 AM
Wotcha 24 May 02 - 09:17 PM
CarolC 27 May 02 - 11:46 PM
Bert 27 May 02 - 11:57 PM
Susanne (skw) 28 May 02 - 07:39 PM
CarolC 28 May 02 - 10:06 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 28 May 02 - 10:12 PM
CarolC 28 May 02 - 10:15 PM
Susanne (skw) 29 May 02 - 06:24 PM
CarolC 29 May 02 - 06:29 PM
masato sakurai 29 May 02 - 06:40 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 29 May 02 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 29 May 02 - 07:48 PM
SINSULL 29 May 02 - 07:59 PM
Bert 30 May 02 - 05:08 AM
CarolC 30 May 02 - 07:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 May 02 - 08:09 PM
CarolC 30 May 02 - 08:57 PM
CarolC 31 May 02 - 12:00 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 02 - 05:45 AM
Nigel Parsons 31 May 02 - 06:54 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 02 - 08:01 AM
Les from Hull 31 May 02 - 02:46 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE FLAG OF NEWFOUNDLAND
From: CarolC
Date: 19 May 02 - 08:45 PM

I found my Newfoundland tricolour flag waiting for me in my mailbox yesterday. It came with a couple of pages of information on the history of the flag. I think it's pretty interesting. Here's some of what it says...

"The 'Pink, White and Green' flag originated in 1843 in St. John's, Newfoundland. It is the oldest flag in continuous use of any of the former jurisdictions of what was British North America, preceding in date of origin the Canada Flag (1967), those of all the other Canadians provinces, and preceded only in date of origin by the Union Flag of Britain (1801). The Newfoundland tricolour is the only flag in the world to include the colour pink."

"The tricolour flag of Ireland, created in 1848 by Thomas Francis Meagher, was most likely directly modeled on the Newfoundland tricolour, for Meagher's father was a large fish merchant operating between St. John's and Waterford, Ireland during the early 19th century and the family owned an extensive premises at the foot of Prescott Street in St. John's near the present Fortis Building."

And more information from this site, Newfoundland and Labrador Heraldry and Flags...

"The story is that during annual wood hauls for the Anglican and Roman Catholic cathedrals, which took place while sealers were in town in the spring, considerable rivalry developed between the two groups involved. The Protestant English marked their wood piles with the pink flag of the Natives' Society, while the Catholic Irish used green banners. The threat of violence was such that Bishop Michael Fleming intervened, and persuaded the sealers to adopt a common flag, on which the pink and green would be separated by a white stripe to symbolize peace, taken from the banner of Scotland."

The Newfoundland tricolour was never the official flag of the province of Newfoundland, or Newfoundland and Labrador. But it seems to be an integral part of the history of the island of Newfoundland. And to add just the right musical touch, here's the song that goes with the flag...


THE FLAG OF NEWFOUNDLAND

The pink the rose of England shows,
The green St. Patrick's emblem bright,
While in between the spotless sheen
St. Andrew's cross displays the white.

Then hail the pink, the white, the green;
Our patriot ring long may it stand,
Our sire lands twine their emblem trine
To form the flag of Newfoundland.

What e'er betide our ocean bride
That nestles midst Atlantic foam,
Still far and wide we'll raise with pride
Our native flag, o'er hearth and home.

Should e'er the hand of fate demand
Some future change in our career,
We ne'er will yield on flood or field
The flag we honour and revere.

Fling out the flag o'er creek and crag;
Pink, white and green, so fair, so grand;
Long may it sway o'er bight and bay,
Around the shores of Newfoundland.


Does anyone else have any interesting flag stories and/or songs?


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Bert
Date: 19 May 02 - 09:18 PM

Hi Carol, Here's My song about the (US) flag.

Bert


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Subject: Lyr Add: I'M YOUR FLAG (Bert Hansell)
From: CarolC
Date: 19 May 02 - 09:57 PM

Hey Bert. That's a really nice song. I hope you don't mind if I post the words here in the thread...


Come gather 'round this flagpole I've a song to sing for you
I'm the flag that you see flying, the old Red, White and Blue.
So wave to me Americans and I'll wave back to you
I'm your flag and I'm your freedom, I'm your flag and I love you.

The red is for the blood you shed to keep me flying free
The blue is for the sad times, we shared you and me
The white it stands for freedom, and truth and purity
and it's freedom keeps me flying and my flying keeps us free.

So if you see them tear me down and throw me to the floor,
remember they can't hurt me; I've survived much worse before
and when you see them burn me and you know they're doing wrong,
remember they're just proving that it's freedom makes me strong.

It's freedom that you must protect to keep me flying high.
If you protect that freedom then I will never die.
Salute me when you see me, just a friendly wave will do.
I'm your flag and I'm your freedom, I'm your flag and I love you.

Copyright Bert Hansell, 1994


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 May 02 - 11:07 PM

"The Flag of Newfoundland" (score) is HERE.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 May 02 - 11:43 PM

That is really neat info, Carol.

Bert, glad you shared yours..it's one of my favs of yours.

Dave Carter has a good one called Don't Tread On Me. The lyrics are on this page second song down. It's got a catchy, hard-beat tune and he really wails it out.

Now I am curious about the flag of Nova Scotia. Will have to go look it up.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 May 02 - 09:30 AM

The Red Flag: the Song, the Man, the Monument.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 May 02 - 09:45 AM

In the North of England - and I guess some other bits of the world as well - stone paving slabs are known as 'flags' - an abbreviation of 'flagstones'. So a whole new thread within a thread can be folowed I guess:-)

"Flag-crackers of Craven' - Morris Team (Based in Grassington, Yorks if I remember rightly

From the Lancashire song 'The Bards Reformation'

"Adieu unto Johny, who dances so bonny
The tightest of ony, you flag it con tell
The weight of his steps and he timeth 'em well."

Now, lets not get starting on euphemisms for very tired. I'm flagging here...;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 May 02 - 09:48 AM

Bit more thread drift...we have flagstones over here, too, but another reference can be made to Iris flowers. Over here they are commonly called "flags." :-)


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 20 May 02 - 09:53 AM

kat, I thought my husband was the only one who called iris flowers "flags." I've never heard anyone else use the term. Of course, he aims at them with the lawnmower, swears it's an accident!

Back to songs...I've always like Bonnie Blue Flag.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE RED FLAG
From: CarolC
Date: 20 May 02 - 09:57 AM

Thanks guys. Masato, that's a really interesting site.

Here's some of what it says in the page you get to if you click on the part that says, For more about the life of Jim Connell and the history of the song...

"Jim Connell was born in Kilskyre in County Meath in 1852. As a teenager, he became involved in land agitation and joined the Irish Republican Brotherhood."

"At 18 he moved to Dublin, where he worked as a casual docker, but was blacklisted for his attempts to unionise the docks."

"Failing to find any other work, he left for London in 1875, where he spent most of the rest of his life."

"He worked at a variety of jobs. He was a staff journalist on Kier Hardie's newspaper "The Labour Leader" and was secretary of the Workingmen's Legal Aid Society during the last 20 years of his life."

"He wrote "The Red Flag" in 1889 on the train from Charing Cross to New Cross after attending a lecture on socialism at a meeting of the Social Democratic Federation. It was inspired by the London dock strike happening at that time, as well as activities of the Irish Land League, the Paris Commune, the Russian nihilists and Chicago anarchists."

"The song quickly became an anthem of the international labour movement. Although he wrote it to the tune of 'The White Cockade', it has come more often to be sung to the tune of 'Tannenbaum.'"

"It has echoed around the world, sung with fire and fervour, for over a century. Although a competition was held in 1925 to replace it as the Labour Party anthem in Britain and over 300 entries were received, it has not been displaced. Newly elected Labour MPs entered the House of Commons in 1945 singing it. The Rand Miners of South Africa went to the gallows singing it."

"Irish trade unionists and political activists proudly sang it in 1998 in Crossakiel."

"It has appeared in virtually every collection of international labour songs published and will live on in the future on world wide web and new multimedia productions."

And here's the song...


The Red Flag

The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead,
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts blood dyed its every fold.

Then raise the scarlet standard high. (chorus)
Within its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.

Look round, the Frenchman loves its blaze,
The sturdy German chants its praise,
In Moscow's vaults its hymns are sung
Chicago swells the surging throng.

It waved above our infant might,
When all ahead seemed dark as night;
It witnessed many a deed and vow,
We must not change its colour now.

It well recalls the triumphs past,
It gives the hope of peace at last;
The banner bright, the symbol plain,
Of human right and human gain.

It suits today the weak and base,
Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place
To cringe before the rich man's frown,
And haul the sacred emblem down.

With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall;
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.


Sound files can be found here.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 02 - 01:47 PM

The cleanest shanty I know - well actually the only clean shanty I know "The Girls of Dublin Town" the refrain is

Hurrah, hurrah, for the girls of Dublin town/ Hurrah for the bonny green flag an' the harp without the crown


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 May 02 - 02:00 PM

Best flag song I ever heard (well, it's partially about a flag) is "Ira Hayes". Patrick Sky sang it, but I dont think he wrote it...someone will hopefully write in in two minutes and tell us.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 20 May 02 - 11:24 PM

Remember that American Civil War song about... "the bonnie blue flag that wears the single star..." ? I seem to recall a Scottish song about a flag borne by Scots troops at Flodden. The flag, I think, was the city flag of Edinburgh and was called the "Blue Blanket", (there used to be a pub in the Royal Mile by that name) but can anybody come up the words to the song?


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Micca
Date: 21 May 02 - 12:34 PM

I have no idea where this comes from but it has remained wedged in my memory for donkeys years

" a moth eaten rag on a worm eaten pole
it doesnt seem much to stir a mans soul
but the deeds that were done 'round this moth eaten rag
When the pole was a staff and the rag was a flag!!!"


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 22 May 02 - 02:50 AM

How's this for seasonal service? We visited Israel a few years back and, on a bright, warm, sunny day in Tel Aviv, went into a cafe and asked for iced coffee. The waiter was very apologetic, but explained that we couldn't have iced coffee because it wasn't June yet..... Eh?..... All was well though, because he said that we could have cold coffee with ice in it if we wanted.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 22 May 02 - 02:53 AM

Sorry................. For some reason the last message was posted here instead of the Service Awards thread.... Damn! this computer's moving the keys around again.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 May 02 - 03:04 AM

ozmacca

what's the flag connection?


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 May 02 - 03:09 AM

carolc

thanks for the song words

reading them, it came to my mind as regards the rich + powerful v poor + weak struggle not much has changed

a philosopher once said

'the more things change, the more they remain the same'

pessimistic mr happy


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 May 02 - 05:07 AM

"The Ballad of Ira Hayes" was written by Peter La Farge.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 May 02 - 07:34 AM

"The Ballad of Ira Hayes" is in the DT (Click here)>. For story behind the song, see THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES (Peter LaFarge) (with Bob Dylan's narrated sound clip), Ira Hamilton Hayes: Corporal, United States Marine Corps, Ira Hayes: Pima Tribe, and many other sites. I've been familiar with Johnny Cash's version, which is in The Record Lady's All-Time Country Favorites (Click on "Salute To Veterans Page 1").

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 May 02 - 08:01 AM

Masato, I'm a little disappointed that it's taken you two days to tell me Peter LaFarge wrote "Ira Hayes". You normally come through in two minutes. Perhaps you've been on holiday? If so, I hope it was a relaxing break, and that you are back in peak condition with finger ready on the button.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 May 02 - 08:01 AM

Thanks Hrothgar


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 May 02 - 08:46 AM

Greg, I was looking for my Johnny Cash CD, and I didn't think of Peter LaFarge until Hrothgar's post.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Hrothgar
Date: 23 May 02 - 05:32 AM

I have it on an LP - that's how backward I am.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,Adolfo
Date: 23 May 02 - 03:53 PM

Here in Spain we still haven't shaken off Franco's misuse of the Spanish symbols, mainly the flag and the anthem (which remains without words to it, the only one on Earth). Anyway, those like me (late thirties, early forties) still remember songs from that time. One of them dealt with the flag:

Como el vino de Jerez y el vinillo de Rioja son los dos colores que tiene la banderita española.

Banderita tú eres roja, banderita tú eres gualda. Llevas sangre, llevas oro en el fondo de tu alma. El día que yo me muera, si estoy lejos de mi patria sólo quiero que me entierren con la bandera de España.

(The colours of the Spanish flag are like the wine from Jerez and the wine from Rioja.

Dear flag, you are red dear flag, you are yellow, bearing blood and gold in the bottom of your soul. The day I die if I'm far from my motherland No other thing I want but to be covered by a Spanish flag.)

One wonders who the gold and blood belonged to...

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 23 May 02 - 06:53 PM

Great stuff everybody!

That's really interesting, Adolfo. I have to admit there's an awful lot that I don't know about Spain even though one of my cousins lived there for several years.

Flag of Spain


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES (Peter La Farge)
From: CarolC
Date: 23 May 02 - 07:40 PM

That Ira Hayes song is really powerful. Here are the words:


IRA HAYES (BALLAD OF IRA HAYES)
Words and music by Peter La Farge
As recorded by Peter La Farge on "Peter La Farge on the Warpath" (1965)

Ira Hayes! Ira Hayes!

CHORUS: Call him drunken Ira Hayes; he won't answer anymore,
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian, nor the marine that went to war.

Gather 'round me, people, and the story I will tell
About a brave young Indian, you should remember well,
From the tribe of Pima Indians, a proud and peaceful band,
Who farmed the Phoenix Valley in Arizona land.

Down their ditches for a thousand years that sparklin' water rushed,
Till the white man stole the water rights and the runnin' water hushed.
Now Ira's folks were hungry and their farm grew crops of weeds,
But when war came, he volunteered and forgot the white man's greed. CHORUS

Well, they started up Iwo Jima Hill, two hundred and fifty men,
But only twenty-seven lived to walk back down again;
And when that fight was over and Old Glory raised,
Among the men who held it high was the Indian, Ira Hayes. CHORUS

Ira Hayes returned a hero, celebrated through this land.
He was wined and speeched and honored, and ev'rybody shook his hand;
But he was just a Pima Indian, no water, no crops, no chance.
At home nobody cared what Ira'd done, and when do the Indians dance? CHORUS

Then Ira started drinkin' hard; jail often was his home.
They let him raise the flag there an' lower it, as you'd throw a dog a bone.
He died drunk early one mornin', alone in this land he'd fought to save.
Two inches of water in a lonely ditch was the grave for Ira Hayes. CHORUS

Yes, call him drunken Ira Hayes, but his land's there still as dry,
And his ghost it's a-lyin' thirsty in the ditch where Ira died.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,Adolfo
Date: 24 May 02 - 07:40 AM

Greetings, CArolc. Where exactly did your cousin live? Yes, Spain is the great unknown. The forgotten ally in the American Revolution. It's always the French take all the honour! Even Antonio Banderas has to play the role of an Arab (the 13th warrior) or Mexican (The Mariachi). If he was presented as what he actually is, nobody would identify the place. Even in that film with Woody Harrelson performing two boxers, Woody had always thought Antonio was a Mexican and he has to explain he is from Spain ("that's what I was saying, Spanish from Mexico").


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Wotcha
Date: 24 May 02 - 09:17 PM

CarolC,
Come to the next chantey sing at the Royal Mile Pub (1st Tuesday in June), and someone will do "The Harp without the Crown."
Cheers, Brian


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 27 May 02 - 11:46 PM

Thanks Wotcha. I don't know about that Tuesday, but if I ever do show up at the Royal Mile again, do you think someone would sing it for me then? I'd love to hear it.

Hi Adolfo. I think my cousin spent part of her time in Spain living in Barcelona, but I think she lived in a few other places while she was there as well. She went to university in Spain, and then she taught English there for a few years before she came back to the US. I heard that she really loved living there.

I was inspired by katlaughing's post to see what I could find out about the flag of Nova Scotia myself. This is what one site had to say about it...

"The graceful flag of Nova Scotia was the first flag in the overseas Commonwealth to be authorized by Royal Charter. It is derived from the ancient Arms granted in 1625 by King Charles I. In response to a petition of the province in 1929, a Royal Warrant of King George V revoked the modern Arms that had been put in place with Confederation. The Ancient and Honourable Arms were restored to be 'borne for the said Province of Nova Scotia upon Seals, Shields, Banners or otherwise according to the Laws of Arms.' The flag consists of Arms, with the cross of Saint Andrew extended in a rectangle three-quarters as wide as its length. It is a symbol of the crown in the right of the province, and its use today is determined by the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council. It is now flown on provincial buildings, and on public and private flagstaffs throughout the province. Its first usage in the modern era was on the high seas, when it flew at the masthead of many Nova Scotian merchant ships in the boisterous age of sail."

Flag of Nova Scotia

But it seems that there is some dispute over whether or not Nova Scotia actually has an official flag for public use...

http://fraser.cc/FlagsCan/Provinces/NS.html

From what I've been reading, it appears that it's not uncommon to find different versions of the histories of a number of flags.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Bert
Date: 27 May 02 - 11:57 PM

And Don't forget Ragged old flag by Johnny Cash


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE LION ON THE GOLD (Gordon Menzies)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 May 02 - 07:39 PM

Is there a story attached to this one?

THE LION ON THE GOLD
(Gordon Menzies)
As sung by Gaberlunzie on "Wind and Water, Time and Tide" (2004)

For most of my life I have wandered the world
Through many proud nations with flags all unfurled
But in all of my travels no prouder flag I've found
Than the red rampant lion on the golden ground
It's the red rampant lion of Scotland

North by the Shetlands and south by the Tweed
It's honoured forever in story and deed
First into battle it always could be found
The red rampant lion on the golden ground
It's the red rampant lion of Scotland

We've lost men at Flodden, at Flanders and Spain
More at Culloden and El Alamein
But we've never been conquered and still we rally round
The red rampant lion on the golden ground
It's the red rampant lion of Scotland

The thistle is bonnie when flowering alone
But what dart or medal she'll cut tae the bone
And tae Scotland my darling my hairt is ever bound
By the red rampant lion on the golden ground
It's the red rampant lion
The lion of Scotland
Of Scotland united and free


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 28 May 02 - 10:06 PM

Thanks for that Susanne. Here's a site that has some background on that flag as well as the Scottish Flag.

The Scottish Flag, and the Royal Flag of Scotland (the red rampant lion of Scotland)


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 28 May 02 - 10:12 PM

Still nothing on the "Blue Blanket"? (see my post 20 May)Gad, I'm disappointed...... Somebody, surely, out there must know something about it?


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 28 May 02 - 10:15 PM

Sorry ozmacca. I've been looking but I haven't found anything yet. Maybe one of the people who are better than me at searches will find something, or maybe someone who knows the song will post it. But I'll keep looking just in case.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 29 May 02 - 06:24 PM

Thanks for the link, Carol! But surely your way of putting it would get you in trouble with some people? I've been told in no uncertain terms by a Scot of my acquaintance the red rampant lion IS the Scottish flag - not that new-fangled Saltire imposed by the English ... I suspect Gaberlunzie, who wrote and sing the song, would take a similar view.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 29 May 02 - 06:29 PM

*g* I'm going to have to take your word for it Susanne. I don't even know enough about it to know what will or will not get me into trouble!

Hopefully, if they see what a duffer I am, they'll take pity on me and not get too angry ;-)


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 May 02 - 06:40 PM

On the history of the Blue Blanket, there's an article: The Blue Blanket, by Bro. Ian P. Watson, P.M..

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 29 May 02 - 06:44 PM

Don't take it too hard, CaroleC. I'm one of those Scotsmen who would naturally take the opposite view to Suzanne's acquaintance (well - it's the sort of thing we're good at, being scots). Remember that the monarch of Scotland, when we had such a thing, was the King or Queen of Scots, and ruled the people rather than owning the land. Therefore I've always held that the Rampant Lion is, or rather was, the Scottish Royal Standard, and as we haven't had a Scottish ruling monarch of Scotland for some three hundred years - as distinct from the United Kingdoms - then that flag is not and can not be, the national flag. The Saltire flag therefore represents the nation of Scotland.

I'll get down off my soap box now and go and run amok through the rest of the threads, ready to spread dissension and strife wherever I can, like any other cantankerous old expatriate would-be highland gentleman of the worst kind..... if a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 29 May 02 - 07:48 PM

Masato, Thanks a lot for that link. The story about the presentation to the commoners is pretty well how I remember being told about it, and the bit about the flag coming back to Edinburgh in the hands of the few survivors of Flodden. The additional info about James 6 reference ties in neatly. Not only that, but it seems to be the institution of the flag which became the Saltire flag of Scotland. Susanne, tell your friend! Now.... if we can't find authentic words? Off to the drawing board.......


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 May 02 - 07:59 PM

Interesting story/poem:
Barbara Frietche

""Shoot if you must this old grey head
But spare your country's flag", she said."


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Bert
Date: 30 May 02 - 05:08 AM

Ah SINSMELUV what a wondeful poem that is. Dad used to recite that to us when we were kids.

Up from the meadows rich with corn
Clear in the cool September's morn
The clustered spires of Frederick stand
Green walled by the hills of Maryland.

Sheesh that's all I can remember! I'm gonna have to look it up and read it again.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 30 May 02 - 07:04 PM

Great site, Masato! Thanks for posting that!

Thanks for the background info, ozmacca. It's a big help when people explain things in language I can understand ;-)

Here are some links for the Barbara Frietchie poem and some background info about Barbara Frietchie herself...

John Greenleaf Whittier: "Barbara Frietchie"

Frietschie, Barbara Hauer


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 02 - 08:09 PM

Here is a site with flags of all the nations of the world, together with the national anthems; plus the flags and anthem of a few that aren't independent nations at this time. (Slogan of the site "Make Love not War.) Some great tunes (and some not so great of course).

It's got the Newfoundland anthem but without the tune. And the new flag, which looks more like a logo than a flag.

The only time ever saw the old Newfoundland flag before was on a T-shirt of a mate who is very strong on Newfoundland Music (we've a campus of St John's in Harlow, and Figgy Duff once turned up unheralded, and took a local folk club by storm). Anyway the colours had changed in the wash and the sun, and it looked just like an Irish Tricolour. I was always a bit puzzled by that. Thanks, Carol, for solving the puzzle.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: CarolC
Date: 30 May 02 - 08:57 PM

That's a really cool site, McGrath! Thanks for posting it.

I'm with your friend on the music of Newfoundland. I think it's some of the best music to be found anywhere.

Here's Newfoundland's anthem, "Ode To Newfoundland". I think it's incredibly beautiful. On the site with the sound samples, I had the best success (without having to download a zip file) using the Real Audio option. It has the church choir of St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Parish, Gander, singing two verses of the anthem. I'm guessing you get all of the verses if you download the zip file.

Ode To Newfoundland, words and score

Ode To Newfoundland, sound samples


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Subject: Lyr Add: ODE TO NEWFOUNDLAND (Sir Cavendish Boyle)
From: CarolC
Date: 31 May 02 - 12:00 AM

Ah, what the hell. I'm posting the words because this is such a great song.

"When sun rays crown thy pine clad hills, and summer spreads her hand, when silvern voices tune thy rills, we love thee smiling land." What could be more beautiful than that?

ODE TO NEWFOUNDLAND

When sun rays crown thy pine clad hills,
And summer spreads her hand,
When silvern voices tune thy rills,
We love thee smiling land,
We love thee, we love thee
We love thee smiling land.

When spreads thy cloak of shimm'ring white,
At winter's stern command,
Thro' shortened day and starlit night,
We love thee frozen land,
We love thee, we love thee,
We love thee frozen land.

When blinding storm gusts fret thy shore,
And wild waves lash thy strand,
Thro' sprindrift swirl and tempest roar,
We love thee windswept land,
We love thee, we love thee,
We love thee windswept land.

As loved our fathers, so we love,
Where once they stood we stand,
Their prayer we raise to heav'n above,
God guard thee, Newfoundland,
God guard thee, God guard thee,
God guard thee, Newfoundland.

--The National Anthem of Newfoundland, written by Sir Cavendish Boyle while he was Britain's Governor of Newfoundland between 1901 and 1904


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 02 - 05:45 AM

I'd wondered what the tune for that was - the words are on that national anthem and flag site I gave, under "non-sovereign nations".

I'm sure I've heard that tune on a hymn, but I can't pin it down. I loved the whole thing, and the way they sing it on that sound file, the odd growler and all.


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 02 - 06:54 AM

Following the comments about what constitutes Great Britain, there have recently be news stoies about some Scots wanting Queen Elizabeth II re-named. They have pointed out that, as with James I (of England)= James VI (of Scotland), the Scots have never before had a Queen Elizabeth so she should be Elizabeth I.
This could get confusing! Nigel


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 02 - 08:01 AM

That's not a new thing - back when she became queen there was a spate of pillar-box bombings up in Scotland, because the pillar-boxes had QE II on them instead of QE. I seem to remember there was a fella who called he'd posted a winning football pools coupon,but it got blown up.

In fact England and Wales are the only countries where there'd be any logic in calling her Queen Elizabeth II anyway, since all the other countries where she's theoretically queen never had the first one. Surely noone outside England and Wales actually calls her Queen Elizabeth the Second do they?


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Subject: RE: Interesting stories & songs about flags
From: Les from Hull
Date: 31 May 02 - 02:46 PM

Actually that rampant lion thing is the personal arms of the Queen (or King) of Scots. Usurping someone's arms is an offence and usurping those arms could even be termed treason - one of the offences that still carries the death penalty. Interesting, eh?


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