Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 May 02 - 04:24 PM

The audience can make it quieter by leaving AND I do. I also wear earplugs but not at all ceilidhs. AND only at concerts if I am forced to steward - and only if I have not deafened the chief steward before hand! I don't do concerts if it is loud and I decide on that, so not too many concerts. Loud is not an excuse for anything. It is an example of poor skill & judgement.

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 May 02 - 10:30 AM

Click here for part two of this thread.

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Ralphie
Date: 28 May 02 - 10:17 AM

Thanks for your support EJ....I'll wear it always !
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: English Jon
Date: 28 May 02 - 04:45 AM

Of course, we all know the audience could do it better. Qualified Tonmeisters the lot of them. And they could probably play the guitar/squeezebox/church organ/andean nose flute/george foreman grill/sousaphone better than the guy on stage too. If they wanted, like.

EJ

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Ralphie
Date: 28 May 02 - 03:34 AM

In defence of us poor (Un) Sound Engineers!!
I remember doing sound for the Ran Tan Band (remember them?) in the late 80's, in Stoke on Trent.
Halfway through the evening, an irate audient berated me about the lack of Melodeon on a particular tune, and what was I going to do about it ..?
As it was a tune based on the Sax in Bb, and Martin Ellison (the Melodeon player) was sitting on a chair sipping his beer at the back. I suggested that I might go and play the tune in G, and would he like that??!!
In defence of us poor souls who have to suffer abuse from all and sundry, after nearly 30 years of working in Sound (Live, Recording, Broadcasting), You can't please any of the people, any of the time, it seems to me.
Oh, and by the way, A clause in my work contract says that I have to have regular hearing tests, and I'm pleased to say that, currently, I have 20/20 vision..........PARDON??
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 27 May 02 - 06:27 PM

Here you go greg...

Sound Engineers part 2

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 May 02 - 06:19 PM

Starting a part 2 of this thread now as I want to read the rest of it and I cam't read long threads. Hope somebody will tie it together witha blue clicky, plede dont write any more after me here, move to Part 2. Thanks

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 02 - 05:37 PM

"WE DON'T WANT TO DANCE"

Then what are you doing in a disco?

Find a good pub for your intelligent conversation... leave the discos to the folks who wanna rub some funk on it!

;-)

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 May 02 - 05:37 PM

Occupational hazzard for boilermakers
Me?
Deafen nightly for the motion.

as an electronic engineer may I take this opportunity to appologise for the excesses of the technology. If you have to throw a switch it is surely "entertainment" and not nearly near enough to the folk end of the spectrum for my tastes.
Last year when the overload breakers tripped at Bromyard we had to continue dancing to the saxaphone. AND guess what? We adjusted in about 10 seconds - the time it takes the ears to return. AND we cheered at the end!

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From:
Date: 27 May 02 - 05:07 PM

Julie B, it IS true. MOst of the sound guys I know who do sound at events have told me they are hard of hearing.

Subject: RE: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST,Julie B at home
Date: 27 May 02 - 03:04 PM

McGrath said: "Paradoxical really - the complaints about it being too loud tend to come from older people whose hearing is probably worn down a bit by the years. "

I'm now 40, but I can never remember liking very loud music. Even as a teenager it annoyed the hell out of me that all the discos I went to were so lound that I could never have a conversation with the friends I went with.

Nowadays I don't go to discos, but the same problem arises at birthday/anniverary parties, wedding receptions. You go along, meet lots of friends you haven't seen for years and can't wait to chat to - but then have to spend the evening just grinning inanely across the table at each other, because the music is so loud that any conversation is impossible. Yes, you can yell in the ear of the person sat next to you, but that's about it! Meanwhile, the brain-dead disc jockey pumps up the volume yet again because nobody is dancing. WE DON'T WANT TO DANCE, YOU MORON, WE WANT TO HAVE INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION!!!!

Luckily, when I was a teenager, we also regularly went to barndances. I remember these as being much happier occasions (especially those kissing dances!)

Julie B

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 27 May 02 - 12:28 PM

When I was plying Montana honkytonks with a band;bass,drums, electric guitar, I used to wear ear plugs on stage so I could hear myself better. It saved my voice, I could hear myself better. But I wouldn't want to be in the house listening to that setup.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 27 May 02 - 12:08 PM

I have become sensitive to noise through playing.though ive had my hearing tested and apparently thats fine.maybe it happens before your hearing gets damaged.anyway im going for protection now,i`ve got some ear pugs from the hospital which are moulded plastic made to fit my ears with a little filter inside..so you can hear certain sounds..i think they`re great,i wear them whike playing though have to take one out to sing.They were fairly cheap ,i don`t knowhow they compare to the really expensive ones. They are handy when you can`t get the noise turned down.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Guessed
Date: 27 May 02 - 11:57 AM

Ears malfunctioning but they have sound reproduction equipment.
***BG***

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 27 May 02 - 10:15 AM

It may not have anything to do with one's hearing. I've been doing one kind of music or another, professionally, for twenty-seven years. In that time I have encountered only THREE people who knew how to use the audio equipment properly.

Stephen

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 May 02 - 09:20 AM

Paradoxical really - the complaints about it being too loud tend to come from older people whose hearing is probably worn down a bit by the years. You'd think it'd be the younger ones with the good hearing would be complaining about the volume being cranked up so the wrinklies can hear it...

Sooner or later someone's going to come up with concerts with individual headsets for people to wear, and no PA at all. Everyone decides their own volume. And you could listen to some other band or the football commentary instead if you preferred.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: English Jon
Date: 27 May 02 - 09:10 AM

I dunno...Soundman in the big tent at broadstairs last year made us sound a lot better than we usually do. Audience only started leaving in droves when Coope, Boyes and Simpson came on. Certainly the best monitor mix I've had for a long time.

Cheers, EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 27 May 02 - 08:36 AM

I think the volume of live and recorded music played in pubs in the UK has increased dramatically. I think one factor is that PA systems have got cheaper and more importantly lighter. In the "old days" if you wanted a 2K rig it would cost you an arm and a leg, and you needed Transit to shift it (and at the end of the night what a pain in the arse). Now you can fit 2K in a car and still have room for another band member. As a result I've seen bands playing small Pubs with that amount of power and a back line with the drums miced up. To my ears the sound is excruciating and I usually listen outside. Unfortunately there is a saying "If its too loud your to old" and there's a bravado thing going on here. At the end of the day it's our hearing and only we can look after it. All the best PP.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 May 02 - 08:16 AM

Paradoxical really - the complaints about it being too loud tend to come from older people whose hearing is probably worn down a bit by the years. You'd think it'd be the younger ones with the good hearing would be complaining about the volume being cranked up so the wrinklies can hear it...

Sooner or later someone's going to come up with concerts with individual headsets for people to wear, and no PA at all. Everyone decides their own volume. And you could listen to some other band or the football commentary instead if you preferred.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 02 - 07:52 AM

At one Caversham Charity Folk Festival the audience moved back as far from the speakers as they could the volume was so painful during the first "turn".
Subsequent performers stood deliberately in front of the mics.
When the soundman tried to move the mics to the very front edge of the stage the performers joined the audience on the floor of the centre.
Folk 1 Soundman 0

The sad thing was that the soundman didn't seem to understand why people didn't like the mics. He probably put it down to folkie eccentricity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Julie B
Date: 27 May 02 - 07:25 AM

Copying from earlier 'noise' thread...

Earlier this year I attended a concert by Bill Jones where she had to practically swear at the sound engineer from the stage mid-songs to get him to turn the volume down to a reasonable level(sound was distorting badly too, as it was so loud). Despite her protestations, he kept insisting on turning it up again (obviously thought he knew best - obviously deaf!). I think she gave him a good talking to during the interval, as things improved in the second half - but only marginally - she still had to complain again!

I saw duo 'Show of Hands' for the first time the other week at St Neots. Great, but again, too loud. Would love to see them acoutically. My friend had a word with the sound engineer during the interval and he was at least slightly sympathetic. It is worth making your feeling known. You're probably not alone!!!

Julie B

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 May 02 - 04:16 AM

I'll say what I said on the other thread. Complain to the festival management, but above all complain(in a friendly fashion, it's not their fault) to the performers. They want peopleto enjoy their performance, and they don't want you walking out.Performer pressure on management is the way this problem can be solved. And it is a big problem, both from the point of view of enjoyment, but also the serious question of hearing damage, to punters and musicians...not to mention the sound personnel themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Escamillo
Date: 27 May 02 - 03:36 AM

This is the thread "Singing in a dome"

Singing in a dome

Sorry, I lost the instructions for blue clicky things

blue clicky added
joe clone:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 27 May 02 - 02:14 AM

When I was pregnant with my daughter, I went to the last major concert of my life (thus far). I went to see Sting at an open style pavilion that had a covered seated area and a lawn area (Merriweather Post Pavilion for the DC/Baltimore, area savy). When my kid started kicking around like she was being tortured, I left the seated area for the lawn (even though the ticket cost more to be inside the pavilion). She quit squirming, and I felt less assaulted by the sound and could enjoy the concert.

My experience of soundmen (5 or 6 all told) is that they range from very good and willing to work with what you tell them and give them to being arrogant and inept...and everything in between. I would have to say my least favorite moment was with a gent who said that he was the soundguy, and we needn't worry about "the room". He'd deal with "the room" and we should deal with "the stage". When I listened to a tape of his work after the fact, the mix was for shite. Some of us (OK, narcissisitic though it may be, I noticed it moreso about my own parts) were completely missing from the sound.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: BlueSage
Date: 27 May 02 - 12:49 AM

Sound techs have been the bane of folk musicians for as long as there has been amplification. A number of acoustic performers have been fighting back in creative ways.

Many bluegrass bands have gone back to using just one microphone on stage during their performances. All the band members 'cluster' around the same mic stand. This accomplishes two noteworthy goals:

First, it keeps the volume down to a sane level. The musicians are three or more feet away from the mic, which means the sound techs can't get the mic level up to the pain threshold even if they want to!

Second, this takes the control of the mix and puts it back into the hands of the musicians. The individual band members control their instrument's volume by moving into or away from the one "communal" mic!

Another way musicians have been fighting the sound tech war is by using in-ear monitors and having the "house" mix sent directly to them. This doesn't solve the volume problem but it allows them to hear and adjust for an inadequate mix in the "house".

Anyone else have ideas on how to handle sound techs who have never listened to folk music before?

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 27 May 02 - 12:40 AM

But I will concede these points: it is vastly underpaid work for the amount of time, energy, sweat, and financial investment that sound engineers and sound techs put into it.

And sound techs do take a lot of abuse from some performers. Some of it is deserved and some of it is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 27 May 02 - 12:35 AM

Actually, Mark, they don't always get it right on CDs either. Now that my ear has been trained to listen for that sort of thing, I can hear a lot of problems with the sound engineering in some of my favorite CDs.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 May 02 - 11:49 PM

I have very sensitive hearing. I have four points to make.

1. Carry hearing protectors with you and put them in if a concert is too loud. Why should you miss everything because of one factor?

2. Sound energy is measured in decibels, and we know how many decibels it takes to cause hearing damage. Why don't sound boards display the decibel level being produced?

3. I always carry hearing protectors on airplanes. They help a lot. I even put them in, then put the earphones of a cassette player (more convenient than a CD player) over them and enjoy beautiful music in my own little world. The music comes right through while the engine noise is considerably damped. Sure beats watching the movie.

On my last international flight I tried watching the movie, and the sound of someone rattling a newspaper was broadcast so loud that I whipped off the headphones and threw them at the seat in front of me.

If you want to try this, take high-pitched tapes. Flute music, dulcimer, sopranos. Low pitches get lost in the engine sound. Beethoven symphonies, for example, are ridiculous on a plane.

4. Long period of loud sound raise your blood pressure and make you tired. This happens whether you are enjoying the sound or not. Get hearing protectors and take charge of this aspect of your life.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Escamillo
Date: 26 May 02 - 11:47 PM

Sound amplification should be called Sound Transformation, because there is no amplification of the original sound, but there is boosting of a different vibration. What we hear is a set of sophisticated carton cones which emulate the human voice, the vibration of strings. Of course the CD (and all types of recording) is a blessing. Without them or without the people who make them a reality, we would be unable to enjoy music (or something very similar) wherever we go.

But when we want to enjoy real music, let's go to an unamplified concert, in a proper place. And ask our artists to perform in those places as much as they can. If the place is noisy, it is not adequate for music. If anyway, people want to make noise and listen to music at the same time, ok, raise the volume reasonably. If they insist in more volume, use a remote detonator device and give them full blast from outside.:)

There's and old thread named "Playing in a dome" or similar. I'll try to find it and come back.

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST,Sound systems
Date: 26 May 02 - 11:11 PM

I go home and listen to music which is recorded on CD.

Without "soundmen" there would be no CD music.

It is possible for "soundmen to get a good sound.

Think of that favourite CD of yours.

How did the music get onto that format. It took time and systematic thinking and painstaking work.

How many sound system operators have enough time?

I say change the way concerts and changeovers of bands and the way festivals cram gigs into venues and the sound quality with go up, the volume down, the loudness (there is a difference between volume and loudness) will improve and everyone will be happier.

What I am saying is that the logistics of many venues makes quality sound reinforcement difficult but not impossible.

There are good people out there. It is hard work and skilled work and most jobs that require those two together are highly paid.

How much did the venue pay the soundman? How much increase in ticket prices are you willing to pay so that enough time and expertise are available to make a the gig a good one?

I say give em time pay em properly and the sound quality will go up, the volume down, the number of smiles increase.

Again it is logistics and economics. Any argument about sound quality must investigate these elements to be a sound argument. No pun intended.

Seeya

Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 02 - 10:58 PM

I, too, went to a Moody Blues concert a few years back and the sound was great, in a very large arena, used for everything from trade shows, Lippizanner Stallion shows, concerts, and indoor football. The acoustics are terrible, but their sound guy did a great job.

My Rog is a broadcast engineer who started out in radio. In the early 1980's, Roy Orbison's cousin, Don Orbison, used to come to Casper, once per year, to hold a talent search. The winner would get a week in Nashville, with Don helping them to cut a song, and they'd get one thousand singles for promotional purposes. It was always a lot of fun. Anyway, Don liked Rog's sound engineering so well that he made it a point to hire him every year for the couple of weeks he was there.

On the other hand, sometimes I think Rog has gone a little deaf due to working around the transmitters which are so loud, BUT it's me who turns up the volume of a tv or radio show. The only reason I think this about him is I have to repeat myself to him (maybe selective hearing?) and he speaks very loudly at times, which he normally has to do around the equipment so maybe that is just habit. Interesting thread.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST,Bullfrog Jones (on the road)
Date: 26 May 02 - 03:30 PM

Julie ---- come over to Roots@Zaks in Wolverton one Wednesday (if you haven't already). Nancy Kerr and James Fagan are on this week, and you can hear what a great job Mike Crawte does. This guy does the sound for everything from the Pitz at Woughton (very loud) to biker rallies (even louder) and still manages to get a clear, warm, sympathetic acoustic sound for a folk gig. He's a rarity and is cherished as such by those of us who appreciate such things (especially me --- I spent 22 years as a radio sound engineer and producer, and I know how important my ears are to me!).

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: vectis
Date: 26 May 02 - 03:08 PM

At the risk of being boring I have pasted my comments from the noise awareness thread here because it seems to be relevant. If you have read the previous thread ignor this posting.

I, like many others, avoid concerts like the plague or listen from way, way back (the bar is good).
All the sound engineers that I know have damaged hearing from too much too loud music. I do not intend to join them if I can help it.
My hearing was damaged when I was a baby so I treasure the fact that I can hear at all and am desparate to conserve whart I have for as long as possible.
If a concert is too loud I walk out and protest to the organisers. I have missed some top acts because of this but there is no way I will inflict volume reaching the pain threshold on myself. People who determinedly stay in the concert are mugs and until they start walking out en masse nothing will change.
YES I want to hear the act clearly but it does NOT have to hurt to do it

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 May 02 - 03:07 PM

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I was doing sound work, if we were positioned so that we couldn't hear what the audience could hear, one of us would go out to where the audience was from time to time to do a check on it. That method wasn't as effective as having the sound board placed conviently within the area where the audience was, but it does work pretty well.

We specialized in doing sound work for acoustic musicians, and I think our approach might have been different than people who do sound for all kinds of music, including rock and roll.

I think the closest thing to rock and roll that I ever ran the sound board for was part of a Peter Rowan concert. No matter what I did, I couldn't get a good sound for him. I think it was because there weren't enough speakers and it was an outside venue.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 May 02 - 09:16 AM

An awful lot has to do with the accoustics of the room. If the soundie is halfway down the hall, then he stands a fair chance of getting a balanced reading. At the back of a long hall he's likely to get distorted (i.e., quieter) reading. If he's on or behind the stage, then there isn't a bat in hell's chance of getting any balance at all. All he will hear is the band projecting outwards towards the people. He won't be able to hear properly so he'll crank up the volume, leading to feedback as the band turn their respective instruments up to counteract the blast of sound coming from the foldback... Then there's the twit who sound checks with one mic turned off..... it happened to me yesterday. Of course, it was the quietest instrument that was penalised....

Same goes for bands - they are on stage, what they hear is not what the audience hears... not unless they have an incredibly good foldback and the stage has the same accoustics (highly unlikely). The Albert Hall was designed for 'unplugged' concerts - amplification in those days meant shouting through a brass cone. Therefore, the accoustics are so good, you could probably manage a set there with no need for any amplification. Trouble is, it would never happen because people are no longer quiet as they used to be and there would be an unending noise of munching, whispering, slurping and shuffling. It's only when they wired the place for sound that the need for the famous ceiling mushrooms arose.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: JudeL
Date: 26 May 02 - 04:00 AM

Rant warning
I have lost count of the concerts I've walked out of because it was so loud I could not hear the music but instead felt that I was being assaulted by noise. Unfortunately there just seem to be a large number of Sound-Techies who cannot understand the concept that just because the rig can be turned up high enough to shake plaster off the walls does not mean that they should. In many smaller venues they still seem to set it as if they were trying to fill a football stadium. Perhaps as someone already posted it's because they are deaf or it may be that they work most often in certain other types of music where the words are so banal that it makes little difference if they are heard or not and it needs to be loud enough to be heard over their audience who don't shut up to listen.

Rant over

On a good note I thoroughly enjoyed a (non-folk)concert we went to last week. The Moody Blues played the Albert Hall it was really good, the sound filled the place but at no time was it uncomfortable and it was balanced so that you could hear all the lyrics.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: rich-joy
Date: 26 May 02 - 02:32 AM

I'm sure that many "a cappella harmony" groups (such as I have frequented in my time) also have MANY horror stories of soundmen (and they mostly are male) and their supposedly high-tech gear.
You put months of work into concert brackets only to have the quality and the harmonies destroyed by people with no ear for music and many of whom, quite frankly, couldn't give a shit. (i.e. "if it hasn't got an electric guitar, then it's not worth listening to" kind of attitude).

Another sad sad thing is that very very often, the sound and lighting techs are the only buggers getting paid. Folkies seem to often be either unpaid or getting a mere token pittance.

But there's a very good reason why big a cappella harmony groups like Sweet Honey in the Rock take their OWN Sound Mixer on tour with them everywhere (and - last I heard -yes, he's male !!!) - Because you can't trust the average SM to understand any part of his soundesk apart from the Volume slide.

But no, I'm not bitter. Not me ... hmmm... Coz back in the 80's in Darwin, NT, Oz - we had us a fabulous SoundMixer, with a very sensitive ear, name of Tel McGinn. But he was unusual, believe me ...

Grumpy Rich-Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 26 May 02 - 01:35 AM

Gee, Bob, you must remember the Cobbers' version of "The Streets of Forbes!" That concert (at the 1979 National) was one of the reasons why I rated that National as the worst. There were other reasons, too.

Isn't a lot of this problem related to the simple fact that often the sound gear comes with the engineer, and in the nature of things those engineers get more work at rock venues than at folk venues?

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Bert
Date: 26 May 02 - 12:13 AM

People, sound guys (I hesitate to call them engineers), or anyone else who turns the sound up too high are just ignorant arseholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 May 02 - 11:13 PM

I've been hearing impaired all my life and I appreciate "soft sound".........and quiet audiences. I don't get both often. I love Mudcat and the internet because I can get all the lyrics I miss in live perfs. and recordings.......

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 25 May 02 - 09:48 PM

G'day JulieB et al,

Elsewhere there is a thread talking about the history of the Australian National Folk Festivals ... but this drifts naturally over to here:

Way back (maybe 1972) the National Festival was in Melbourne ... and a showcase concert featured two of the more 'upbeat' - even 'rocky' Bush Bands The Bushwackers and (maybe) Cobbers.

The respective sound men of both bands combined resources - and belted out levels of sounds so high that a large and stroppy delegation from the audience went round and suggested some quite destructive things might be done to their sound gear if they did not desist from doing destructive things to the audience's enjoymment ... and hearing!

Regards,

Bob Bolton (Who only reports ... having been at a much quieter event, at the time)

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 May 02 - 09:37 PM

At one of my favorite festivals, I've complained for several years that the performances were over-amp'd.

They kept telling me that people were complaining about not being able to hear, and kept turning it up a little each year.

Then they hired some new guys, who explained to them that "the louder you make the music, the more noise the crowd makes - and the louder you have to make the music."

Things were much improved last year, and I've told them so.

Yes - I have left the grandstand during performances of good groups because the amplification was not only painful, it was impossible to hear any detail in the performance. (e.g. Darrington Bluegrass Festival - two consecutive years.) And I've encountered a number of "indoor" venues where you could hear the music better from outside (or in the crapper) than in the hall.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:29 PM

McGrath, the fact that you notice the low end more could indicate a deficit in the high end that you might be experiencing yourself. Almost invariably, I've found (when I've started cranking things down so that the different ranges can actually be heard), that the high end gets cranked up the most. Then the low range, and then, very occasionally, the mid range.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:25 PM

*BG* Clinton

(this is what I'm saying... )

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:25 PM

People who complain that movies are too loud are wimps!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:23 PM

"especially in the high end range" - but what they do is turn up the whole range, or even more especially the low end. Resuly, more damage and less clarity.

And the same goes for the people who run the sound in the cinemas - though there I imagine the problem is mainly back in the studio rather than in the projection booth.

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:19 PM

When in doubt... TURN IT UP!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:17 PM

Having done a certain amound of sound tech work myself, and having worked with a number of other sound techs and sound engineers, I'd have to say that most are pretty deaf, especially in the high end range. This problem is particularly noticable in sound engineers who are middle aged men.

While doing work as a sound tech, I also noticed that there are quite a few middle aged male band members who are pretty deaf, as well.

I blame it on the habit many young men have of listening to really, really loud music, which seems to lead to deafness in middle age.

Subject: Sound Engineers - Deaf/Sending us deaf?
From: GUEST,Julie B at home
Date: 25 May 02 - 07:53 PM

This thread follows on from a discussion that's started elsewhere, in thread UK Noise Awareness Day - May 22nd.

The motion for debate is...

"This house proposes that most, if not all sound engineers are hard-of-hearing (usually without realising it) and consequently spend their careers behind the sound desk sending the rest of us deaf too, or driving us away from concerts that we'd otherwise enjoy, by constantly having volumes set far to high"

Comments?

Cheers,
Julie B