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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Chris Ennis, Date: 05 Jun 21 - 06:29 AM The song " My Bonny Irish Boy" was where Robbie McMahon got the "Air" for Spancil Hill. . Source ,Robbie McMahon. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jeri Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:28 AM Dick, there are quite a few threads on this song. Doing a search is helpful. |
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Subject: RE: Spancil Hill From: GUEST Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:04 AM ok , i found some info It was written by Michael Considine, who was born in August 1850 close to Spancil Hill Crossroads |
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Subject: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,guest The Sandman Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:35 AM I read somewhere that Pecker Dunne claimed he wrote the tune for this. I was under the impression that he wrote the song Sullivans John which mentions Spancil Hill, but not the song Spancil Hill, can anyone provide info on the origins of the song. I was busking one time in the 1990s in Skibbereen and Pecker kindly gave me a punt, some six months or so later, I saw Pecker busking in Killarney with his mandolin, ,he was a good player, so i returned the compliment and put a punt in his box. Redistribution of Wealth |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Pat Date: 31 Dec 18 - 02:03 PM Hi Yvonne Forde, Does someone in your family still have the original copy of the poem that Micheal Considine sent home to his six year old nephew John Considine? Can you share any more information about the original copy of the poem and the exact wording of the poem. Thank you Pat |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,yvonne forde Date: 05 Dec 18 - 11:15 AM michael Considine was my fathers gran uncle --Ellen Considine (michaels sister) was his granmother.. married to John Forde |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:27 PM Refresh |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 22 Jun 09 - 05:21 PM If you've never heard Robbie sing Spancil Hill - DON'T MISS THIS CHANCE! (See last post) He starts to sing "a verse or two" at about 43 minutes into the programme, down the phone. Needless to say, he sings the full nine yards in that wonderful, iron bar voice - at the age of eighty two. Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: thetwangman Date: 22 Jun 09 - 02:58 PM here's a link to robbie mcmahon discussing and performing spancil hill in full on the derek mooney radio show. follow the link and listen to the show broadcast on monday june 22nd 2009. the piece on spancil hill starts 33 minutes into the show. http://www.rte.ie/radio/mooneygoeswild/archive/index.html |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:15 PM Only stumbled on this fascinating thread now. As it happens I met an old Christian Brother last week who told me he was from Spancil Hill 4 miles from Ennis.His name is Bro. Colm McMahon, a lovely gentle soul if ever there was one. We got talking about the song and he told me the exact story that has been told above about Michael Considine writing the words etc.He knew John Considine well and told me that he was often brought by the hand to mass in Clooney church by John. He also attributed the fame of the song to the singing of Robbie McMahon. Curiously, I mentioned the characters named in the verses to Bro. Colm.He told me he knew many of them.When I mentioned Martin Moylan he said that he had never heard that verse before !!! but that he did know of a family of Moylans in the locality.He knew the tailor Quigley well-he lived in a very well kept thatched house at the cross. Behind Quigleys up a little boreen was a large house which was Considines.Bro.Colm is a really gentle man and now lives in the Brothers retirement home in Baldoyle in Dublin, having spent his life teaching. Lastly, we had a good laugh recalling one of the verses of The Pecker Dunne's song "Sullivans John" where he sings "Theres a hairy ass fair in the Co. Clare in a place they call Spancil Hill. Where my brother James got a rap of a hames and poor Paddy they tried to kill. They loaded him up in a aul ass and cart as Kate and Mary stood by. O, bad cess to the day you went away to join with the Tinker band,".....so perhaps the words "sport and kill" werent so far off the mark if the Pecker's lyrics are anything to go by!! |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Brakn Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:48 AM This might help with dates. According to this Census Mary MacNamara was born 1865 and had still not married in 1901. This would knock things back a few years. Patrick Quigley, the tailor, was born 1868. John Considine, who could possibly be Michael Considine's nephew was born 1876. If the song was sent home to him when he was 6, Mary MacNamara would've been 17 then and the tailor Quigley 14. I reckon that the tailor Quigley mentioned in the song could be this tailor Quigley's father. The 1901 Census of Clare - Spancelhill - Muckinish. Considine Kate Hd RC Read-Write 47 Female Farmer Widow Co. Clare Considine John Son RC Read-Write 25 Male Farmer's Son Not M'd Co. Clare O'Connell James Brother RC Read-Write 43 Male Not M'd Co. Clare ------------------------- MacNamara John Hd RC R&W 45 Male Farmer Not M'd Co. Clare English MacNamara Mary Sis RC R&W 36 Fem Dom Serv Not M'd Co.Clare Irish-Eng ------------------------- Quigley Mary Hd RC Read-Write 60 Female Housekeeper Widow Co. Clare Quigley Patrick Son RC Read-Write 33 Male Tailor Not Married Co. Clare |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Gus Garrigan Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:40 PM Hello all seems this thread has been inactive awhile, I'm just finding it now. I first heard the song from Paddy Reilly (short version)in 1995. one drunken night when singing songs with the lads in the wee hours I suggested we sing Spancil Hill, my friend Pat knew it and we started to sing, and when we got to the second verse i told him he was singing it wrong. He corrected me and sang the rest. It turns out it was a hybrid of the two versions but closer to the original. Still a favorite of mine but the only version close to the original I have heard if from Christy Moore. What I would like to know is does any know of Martin Moilen? |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,John F Date: 12 Jun 06 - 06:49 AM Robbie still going strong. Singers club every first Friday in Duggan's Bar, Spancil Hill. Later this year special weekend to celebrate Robbie's 80th birthday which occurs in December 2006. Be there please to honour the great man! |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jeri Date: 01 Aug 04 - 11:53 AM Why don't you think a hunt makes sense? To me it's the most logical explanation: Hunts are/were frequently held on Sundays in Ireland. You have a horse fair starting the next day, so there are even more horses around than usual. The 'sport and kill' bit is in the version supposedly handed down from the original. I think it's more likely that there was simply a hunt than the lyrics of this song, which had originally been written down, were screwed up. In any case, I hope someone who isn't just guessing (although I'm about 95% sure I'm right), will comment. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: JedMarum Date: 01 Aug 04 - 09:50 AM I suspect it is a local expression that we just wouldn't be able to know about it - or it is one of those errors that has been carried on for generations. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jeri Date: 31 Jul 04 - 11:45 AM Maybe there was a hunt the day before the fair? |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: JedMarum Date: 31 Jul 04 - 11:37 AM Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. The background info is most valuable ... I do not understand one line ... why on the 23'rd of June, did "The young, the old, the stout and the bold" assemeble "to sport and kill?" I had convinced myself that this line was an error, and that they "came for sport and skill" - but it appears that too many versions have "Erin's sons and daughters" sporting and killing. So I guess those must be the words! What does it mean??? |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Wolfgang Date: 05 May 04 - 04:45 AM Johnny McEvoy (only to make a search easier) Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Naka Ishii Date: 03 May 04 - 10:41 AM Excuse me if this has appeared in another thread on Mudcat, but I haven't seen it. I've been playing in a band with Sean and Desmond Burke, two brothers originally from Belmullet, Co. Mayo (now in western Massachusetts) for about 25 years; we call ourselves Spancil Hill, after the song. Sean told me he and Des learned this song as kids ('60's?) from the version by Johnny McAvoy, an Irish pop music performer who at least until recently was still recording and touring. I think it may have been his version which accounts for the widespread familiarity with this song in Ireland. There is a recording available on Amazon by Johnny McAvoy ("Sings Country & Irish") which includes the song Spancil Hill. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Big Tim Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:05 AM Christy Moore attributes the songwriter as Robbie McMahon: that is obviously wrong. He (Moore)says that he got the song from "John Minogue, who got it for me from the writer". This seems to have been in Tulla, near Spancelhill (the more official and "correct" spelling). |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Critto Date: 23 Sep 03 - 08:14 PM I LOVE Spancil Hill. It's my favorite Irish ballad that I know by heart; I love her especially for her 'ethereal' sound. I must be in a good mood to sing it well ... Maybe soon I wll put my mp3 online, I dunno. Well, I start another thread with some filkin' around this great ballad ,too... Cheerz, Critto |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Jon Date: 24 Feb 03 - 01:07 PM I just do it as a Dm/C song. Start with Dm. You should be able to hear when the tune needs to switch between these chords. Jon |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,lauraluna Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:33 PM Sorry that I don't have anything to contribute to the fine research going on here, but I am new to Digitrad and have only a question. I'm in Shanghai, China, and recently heard 'Spancil Hill' played by the band Anam Cara at a local Irish pub called O'Malley's. (BTW, if you're ever in the neighborhood, there's nowhere better for Irish music, Guinness, and good people in all of China.) I loved it and am trying to learn it for guitar. However, the computers at the school where I teach have no sound capability, so I can't play any sound files. Where can I find just guitar chords (not tab, I'm a beginner) for this gorgeous song? Thanks in advance, and in the meantime, I'll keep reading the wonderfully detailed information all of you have posted regarding this song. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 07 Oct 02 - 06:49 AM Got there for the Sunday afternoon session in Duggans. Apart from the man himslf, highlights for me were John Lyons singing "The Affray at Spancelhill", which I think I've seen in print but not heard before - and a man singing an adaptation of "off to Dublin in the green" based on a farmers march in, at a guess, the 1940's or '50's. Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,NSC George Henderson Date: 06 Oct 02 - 04:26 PM Just back from Spancil Hill. What a weekend. Singing started at about 9.30 on Friday night and there must have been well in excess of 50singers. The quality was exceptional. Robbie recweived 4 awards for his contribution to singing. It was brilliant and Robbie ended the presentaion with a rendition of his song about the 1955 Fleagh in Ennis in which he mentioned over 40 musicians, 30 of whom have since passed on. A fitting tribute to a great friend. He is in great form and there are many more years left in the great man yet. George Henderson |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,NSC George Henderson Date: 04 Oct 02 - 07:32 AM Tonight we are all joining Robbie for a mammoth weekend of singing in Spancil Hill. The weekend has been organised by Pat Liddy and is being held to honour Robbie McMahon and to show our appreciation of his contribution and caretaking of many traditional songs. We must also compliment him on his song writing achievements. The programme is: Tonight in Duggans Bar - Spancil Hill at 9.30pm Irish time Tomorrow in Norrie Henchies bar from 2pm Tomorrow night in Brohans (Spancil Hill Inn) from 9.30pm (Set dancing first followed by an all night singing marathon)(well as long as the Brohan's will let us stay anyway. Sunday afternoon in Duggans from 2pm. Promises to be great fun and Robbie will perform Spancil Hill at least once at each session. Mick - I didn't see the previous posting until today. I am in great form - How are you? It's ages since we met in Canada. George Henderson |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 14 Aug 02 - 08:19 PM You may well be right, Mick. But, as you say, its a bit odd that nothing else seems to have survived carrying the tune. Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Big Mick Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:36 AM This has been fascinating from the first minute that Frank posted a number of years ago. Thanks to Martin, George (How are you, my friend?), Frank for their scholarship and determination. As I listen to the Black Sheep tape, and the way it is sung, the meter of the tune almost sounds like a chant. Perhaps, Martin, it is simply, as Robbie says, a metered cadence style song used in times gone by for the sharing of a good yarn? Seems odd that one can't find the beginning in any other sense. Mick |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 14 Aug 02 - 04:29 AM I spoke to Robbie McMahon at the weekend, during a festival in Feakle, Co. Clare. His recollection is that he was told as a child that Michael Considine's poem had been set to its tune, locally, in Spancil Hill. He has never heard the tune used for anything else - nor does he recall any mention of what it had been previously used for. "It was just lying around, really!" was his comment. Sounds like the trail is cold, I'm afraid. So, we have three sets of words and one tune (sung two ways). Regards
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,NSC George Henderson Date: 22 Jun 02 - 04:47 PM Spancil Hill fair is in progress and has been a huge success with even more horses and donkeys than had been anticipated. Robbie McMahon is still singing with enormous enthusiasm. Incredible This is the first time ever that the fair was brought forward by a day. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Nigel Parsons Date: 21 Jun 02 - 08:59 AM Refresh: in an attempt to get some interesting threads back in the system |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,NSC - George Henderson Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:54 PM Frank got his information directly from the horses mouth. I don't know where he got his slightly different words. The version on the "Black Sheep" tape is the version that Robbie sings. He gets so many requests to sing this song that he has now taken to apologising before he sings it. You too can get details from the horses mouth this weekend when the fair takes place once again. in the song it says "on the 23rd of June the day BEFORE the fair. the fair actually takes place on the 23rd except in those years on which the 23rd falls on a Sunday. in those years it was usually delayed until the following day as it was in the year that Michael Considine wrote the song. I have heard a rumour that they are breaking with tradition this year and holding the fair the day BEFORE the 23rd, that is this Saturday. I have no confirmation of this. Last year was the first time in 350 years that the fair was cancelled. it was cancelled because of the foot and mouth scare but it is back with a bang this year. George Henderson |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 14 Jun 02 - 08:33 AM The point about small variations is well made - it's why traditional singing is not really a singalong phenomenon. On "definitive versions": my mention in the summary posting above was really to Robbie's singing of the long version - rather than to his words - which, of course, vary slightly anyway! Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:00 AM I'm a piper, not a singer, but the turn which this thread has now taken is leading me to the conclusion that traditional singers may be treating the words in a manner similar to the way musicians treat a tune: keeping the basic structure, but introducing small variations which are regarded as legitimate and even desirable deviations from what was originally learnt. I know that in the case of songs this may be due to imperfect recollection of something which was once learnt orally from an oral tradition, whereas in the instrumental music, variation of the same phrase recurring within a single performance is regarded as highly desirable. But I have found that something similar happens on the rare occasion when I learn a tune from a book: if I go back to the book after I've been playing it for a few months, I find that it has spontaneously mutated and is no longer the same as what I initially learnt. This is one of the reasons why it is a pleasure to listen to even the most common tunes being played by a different musician, because each musician does something different with it. In trying to explain the instrumental music to people not familiar with it, I use the analogy of the Ho Chi Minh Trail - there are many broadly parallel ways of getting to the same place, rather than a single highway laid out in concrete. This DT study has been well worth while, but I suspect that the outcome will indeed be two or three joint contenders for the title of definitive version (a bit like heavyweight boxing, really). After all, I don't think there's even agreement on how to spell "Spancil Hill", and I was also struck by the variant spelling of the author's name. "Considine" is now the standard spelling in English, but the second "o" in "Consodine" above reflects the Irish/Gaelic pronunciation of "O Consaidín" where the vowels and consonants interact. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 13 Jun 02 - 05:23 PM It's the sort of line that varies from performance to performance - but I agree its particularly apposite for Robbie, of course. Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 13 Jun 02 - 03:45 PM Can we include the end of the first verse as Robbie sings it on his tape, - And I quickly came to anchor at my home in Spancilhill. - instead of - 'Till I quickly came to anchor at the Cross of Spancilhill? |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 13 Jun 02 - 03:32 PM OK: Here's a summary of the situation on the three versions. -------------------------------------
This song exists in three basic versions. Within each version, traditional singers often make slight adjustments to the words, as usual. The sets given below are at least close to the recorded sources mentioned.
Version 1
This version was effectively preserved by Robbie McMahon of Spancilhill, who sings the definitive version.
Version 2
This five verse version became extremely popular in Ireland in the 1960's thanks to recordings by Dermot O'Brien, Paddy Reilly and the Dubliners. According to Robbie McMahon (see version 1), it was well known long before this period. It has become something of an anthem – any Irish person above a certain age seems to be able to sing it through, without ever having consciously learned it.
The third and fourth line of the second verse can vary somewhat.
Version 3 This seven verse version was recorded by Christy Moore on his seminal Prosperous < album in 1970. He attributes it to Robbie McMahon, whom he thought was the author. Essentially, he added Verse 2 and parts of Verse 3 and 5 from Robbie's Version 1, to Version 2 - and made some other minor changes. This version is less commonly sung than Version 2.
SPANCIL HILL Delighted by the novelty, enchanted with the scene, To Martin Moylan's music at the cross of Spancilhill.
Notes on the Tune: All three versions share the same tune. Robbie, however, sings in a very staccato, squared off 2/4 time - compared to the smoother, ¾ time normally used for the other versions. Little seems to be known of the origin of the tune. I'm still looking! Regards
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Wolfgang Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:15 PM I still think it probable that M. Considine used a then known tune for his poem. (1) How else could he likely transmit the tune for "The cross of Spacnelhill" in his letter except by telling which tune he meant? (2) In "Ballads of Co. Clare" the tune "Spancelhill" is indicated for altogether nine local songs (if I have counted correctly) by different authors. The songs come from various times, all but one under the broad category "1850-1930". That means several authors have used this tune to carry their songs between 1850 and 1930. Some of the songs have names in them that could make a closer dating possible, but not for me. If so many different authors have used this tune before 1930, I think it probable that a tune 'Spancelhill' was known in Clare in the 19th century and has been used by Considine to carry his poem. For the fun of it, the first verse of the most recent example that uses the Spencelhill tune
The black Minorca cock
One night as I lay dreaming And an old example: Cratloe Woods
...I spied a fir clad hillside Just to give you an idea how close and how different "The cross of Spancelhill" in "Ballads of Co. Clare" and Robbie McMahon's "Spancilhill" are: The number of verses is identical, the theme of each verse is identical (slighly different order of verses), but each line I have checked is different in detail. I post the last verse for comparison:
And when the vision faded the tears came to my eyes,
compare (copied from above): Even the long "original" version has already variants that must have been known in Clare long enough to allow changes. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 05 Jun 02 - 04:17 AM As mentioned earlier, my earliest memory is of Paddy Reilly singing it in the sixties. The Dubliners did it around then, also. WOlfe Tones would be later. I can check with ITMA (Irish Traditional Music Archive) next time I'm in Dublin. REgards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:32 AM Does anyone have an early recording of the short, newer version, so we can attribute it to some source? If not Christy Moore, then to whom do we refer? I searched CDNow and found several recordings of the title, but I don't own any of them to listen to what is sung. Included in CDNow's listing for Spancil Hill (none for Spancilhill) are The Dubliners and Wolfe Tones. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Jun 02 - 05:18 PM I think we should let this go a bit longer. When you feel the time is right, will Martin and Alice to get together and post a summary of the background information, a corrected version of the DT lyrics, a transcription of the Christy Moore version, and a corrected transcription of the McMahon recording. Once that's completed, I'll transfer all the other messages to another thread. Any final comments? Thanks, everybody. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Brían Date: 04 Jun 02 - 10:05 AM Here is an excerpt from a letter Robbie wrote to me when I bought his tape. It has a little different information from the notes on the tape, but does give information on how old Robbie was when he got the song: "...it was Michael Consodine who wrote the song. he was born in 1850 and went to Boston in 1870 (and)worked there for about a year and a half made some money went to California went to High School and got a good job, then got into bad health and he knew he wasn't going to make it because more of his family and his mother died before him. So he wrote the song in poem form and sent it home to his six year old nephew John Consodine. 'Twas from John I got the song. He was about 75 years then and I was about 17 or 18 years. he never came home and was buried in California at the age of 23." Brían
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jeri Date: 03 Jun 02 - 09:52 PM About Spancil Hill and Go To Sea Once More tunes being "virtually the same" - they definitely aren't. They're the same in places, in harmony in others, and discordant in a very noticable few. Here's both tunes together. This post is quite deletable, BTW - just wanted to follow up. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 03 Jun 02 - 09:43 AM For what it's worth, the tune that carries Spancil Hill also appears to belong to some variants at least of the Scottish song Rarey's Hill (Roud no.6847, with a few examples assigned no.5558). Some tunes are included in vol. 6 of the Greig-Duncan Collection, but I don't have that one yet, so I don't know if any are relevant here; the coincidence of titles is interesting, though. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 03 Jun 02 - 07:23 AM I was told at the weekend that some research has been done on the source of the tune. I want to check that out before starting a hunt of my own. Regards
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 03 Jun 02 - 12:34 AM The tune for Spancilhill (especially as Robbie sings it) doesn't sound the same at all to me as Go To Sea Once More. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Jun 02 - 09:43 PM Re-reading.... I see Martin Ryan has said he has started some enquiries on the source of the tune... apologies Martin... I thought I'd read properly but obviously had not or I would have at least acknowledged on going research in one of my questions. Jon |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Jun 02 - 08:55 PM Nor me Jeri but I think that within the Mudcat thread structure, if these are to become "official", any questions or doubts (in my case here, I'm seeing 1/2 a story rather that questioning authorship), if reasonable, should be placed here at least until some resolution or concencous is formed - or, alternatively, a "question mark" could be provided in the text if there is (and I could be being stupind on this one) reasonable grounds for questioning. Jon |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jeri Date: 02 Jun 02 - 08:28 PM The tune is virtually the same as Go To Sea Once More, but there isn't a MIDI in the DT nor at Alan's Midi page. Somebody added it to the poem, or perhaps Considine said "sung to the tune of..." Don't know if this should be here or in the other thread. I don't know if the tune is similar enough to add it to the other song. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 Jun 02 - 07:23 PM Well, I'll try to reiterate my problems with the story here in the hope it gets some answers... The song came across as a poem yet it has a tune - why? The nephew of Constastine is credited as keeping the song safe yet "Robbie" knows it and is given the "correct" version firstly by the aunt when he proposes to sing it and secondly by the nephew. There even seems to be some ill feeling about people singing the "wrong" version. How did this "wrong" version come about? Jon |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 02 Jun 02 - 04:50 PM I saw Robbie across a crowded pub in Ennistymon, Co. Clare on Friday night - and he disappeared before I had a chance to talk to him. Reliable sources give his age as " 76 give or take one"!. I've started some enquiries on the source of the tune. Regards p.s. I believe Robbie is now running a monthly singing session in a pub in Spancilhill - first Friday. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 30 May 02 - 10:38 AM The words Robbie uses in his recording have an easier flow when singing, such as "he used to mend my breeches when". The "mend" and "when" sound better together than "make" and "when". Joe, if you need me to transcribe the version from Robbie's tape and submit it in complete form, let me know. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 30 May 02 - 04:37 AM BTW, Christy's seven verse version does have a currency of its own. To an extent, in Ireland, the three sets live in parallel universes. IMHO, all are worth their place in DT. Regards
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 29 May 02 - 06:39 PM Joe: You ask:
Is the version in the Digital Tradition an accurate rendition of the "shorter" version of the song? Yes. In verse 2, the usual is " their DUTY to fulfill" - you'll know why! The last line of that verse has a few versions, also.
Who has recorded that version? Don't remember. A quick check shows a few recordings around 1973 - but I know there were several before that. Paddy Reilly? Not sure. Is it agreed that we should add an attribution to Michael Considine as songwriter? Don't see why not. Are we convinced about the accuracy of the "longer" version that Frank posted - did he transcribe it from McMahon's cassette, or what? See Alice above. Verse structure and content are fine - the odd word gets changed in individual performance.
Can somebody find out how Frank McGrath obtained the information from McMahon?
p.s. In verse 3 of Christy's version, he uses the second part of verse 5 of Robbie's. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 29 May 02 - 05:25 PM Robbie's voice is very clear in the recording. This is on the tape that is different than the lyrics Frank posted earlier:
verse 1
verse 5
verse 6
verse 7
verse 8
Sure he used to mend my breeches...
verse 10
verse 11 (Joe, I'd retype the whole song for you, but don't have time this afternoon - going offline now - Alice) |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: MartinRyan Date: 29 May 02 - 05:21 PM The version Christy Moore recorded on "Prosperous" included verses 2 & 3 of Robbie's with minor changes. I'll need to dig out and listen to confirm the details of the changes. The five verse version is the "standard" one regularly bawled out in pubs. I don't remember who recorded it first - but am fairly confident it was before Christy Moore. I'll check. On a minor point in Frank's copy of Robbie's version, the name in verse 5 is normally spelled "Moylan" Regards p.s. On Wolfgang's point regarding the tune: O Cillin's book was published in 1976 - at which stage the short version was very well known under the title "Spancel Hill". I suspect that's all he meant. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Joe Offer Date: 29 May 02 - 05:03 PM Hi, Alice - how do the lyrics on the cassette compare with those that Frank posted? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 29 May 02 - 05:01 PM This is from the cassette notes written by Robbie McMahon for his recording of SPANCILHILL on the tape called "The Black Sheep Robbie McMahon of Spancilhill". (Recorded on location, edited in harmony row studio, Ennis, produced by Fr. Joe McMahon. There is no date on the cassette or the liner notes.) quote "1. SPANCILHILL (4.56) This song was written by Michael Considine. Michael himself was a great musician. He used to play the old melodeon and the fiddle and he used to cater for all the American wakes and the fair of Spancilhill. He was great with his Mary Mac - Mac the Ranger's daughter. Her house was across the road and he went off to America to make some money and to bring her out. He went to Boston and he worked there for two and a half years. Then he went down to California and got work there, but he went to night school as well and became an accountant. He wrote that song in poem form and sent it home to his six year old nephew - a man I often walked to mass with. He was an old man and I was a young fellow. Michael Considine died before he reached 23. I got the song from Marie Keehan who got it from the nephew of the composer." end quote of Robbie McMahon |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Jeri Date: 29 May 02 - 03:03 PM Joe, Declan, the lyrics Alice posted from the DT (as by Christy Moore) are the same ones here, at www.christymoore.net. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Nigel Parsons Date: 29 May 02 - 02:37 PM The value of the DTStudy threads: The Irish Independent quote gives Robbie McMahon as receiving the song from the author's nephew (John Considine). The writing from Frank McGrath gives it as received by Robbie McMahon from Moira Keane, and with its authenticity verified by the nephew of the author. It is not stated what the relationship was of Moira Keane to Michael Considine, but as the aunt of Michael Considines nephew, it is possible that she was his widow. (possibly going back to her maiden name) Martin Ryan may be seeing Robbie McMahon shortly, and may be able to confirm the details. But, as with the aural tradition, it may be that the story of the 'provenance' of this song has been embroidered over time. Now is probably he best time to try to nail down any available facts, as the longer it is left, the more nebulous those facts become. I am not trying to question anyone's version here, merely pointing out that we appear to have two, contradictory, stories coming from almost primary sources!I look forward to reading more of the saga here. Nigel |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Joe Offer Date: 29 May 02 - 02:28 PM Is the version in the Digital Tradition an accuarte rendition of the "shorter" version of the song? Who has recorded that version? Is it agreed that we should add an attribution to Michael Considine as songwriter? Are we convinced about the accuracy of the "longer" version that Frank posted - did he transcribe it from McMahon's cassette, or what? Can somebody find out how Frank McGrath obtained the information from McMahon? I summarieds comments that were posted and transferred extraneous messages to Where Is Spancil Hill? (continued) -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Declan Date: 29 May 02 - 10:57 AM Don't want to be pedantic here but the song as quoted in the first post on this thread is not the version recorded by Christy Moore on Prosperous. In fact the "Prosperous" version is much closer to the one given underneath. The top version is the one most often sung in Ireland and comes from the '60s ballad boom. I'm not sure what the source of this abbreviated version was, but it wasn't Christy. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 28 May 02 - 12:32 PM I'd trust Mudcat sooner than the newspaper that the Irish Independent has become, but the photographic evidence seems hard to argue with!!! |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 28 May 02 - 11:10 AM Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill? From: Frank McGrath Date: 28-Apr-98 - 10:17 AM Robbie McMahon promised to start writing out his history and stories relating to the song "Spancilhill" but here is a little sample just to keep the thread current. The song I will have in two days and the full history in another a week or two. The author of "Spancillhill", Michael Considine, was born around 1850 and emigrated to the USA from Spancillhill around 1870. Working in Boston for about two years, he went to the USA with the intention of bringing his sweetheart over and for them to be married when he had made enough money for the passage. "Johnny you're only jokin'...." a line from the current version, in the original, of course, reads... "Mike you're only jokin' " His sweetheart was "Matt the Ranger's Daughter" and not Matt the Farmer's daughter as in the popularised version. The Ranger's house was visible from Michael Considine's house as was the Taylor Quigley's. He stayed in Boston for two years or so before moving to California. He suffered from ill health for a long time and, knowing he hadn't long to live, he wrote the poem "Spancilhill" to send home in rememberence of his love and it was kept safe by his 6 year old nephew, John Considine. Michael Considine died sometime in 1873. And it seems he go home somehow (I don't know yet whether it was dead or alive) as he is buried in Spancilhill garveyard, close to where Robbie has a little plot chosen. Robbie reckons there will be a mighty session in Heaven and Spancilhill when that day comes around (hopefully a long time from now). In the late 1930's or early 40's, Robbie was in a neighbours house with some friends singing when someone suggested singing "Spancillhill". The woman of the house, Moira Keane, left the room and when she came back said, "If ye are going to sing that song ye might as well sing it right" and she gave Robbie the original song. Some time later at another session in the parish Robbie was asked to sing "Spancilhill" when a gruff voice in the corner growled out "Don't sing that song". When asked "why not?" the voice barked back " 'Cos ye don't know it." Robbie, however insisted he did and launched into the version he'd gotton from Moira Keane. After singing a few lines Robbie noticed the gruff man sitting up and paying attention. As Robbie progressed with the song the gruff man foostered more and more with his cap and became agitated. When the song ended, the gruff voice in the corner demanded "Where did ya get that song?". The gruff old man seemed both perturbed and pleased. Robbie explained the source. Moira Keane was the gruff man's aunt and the gruff man was 76 year old John Considine, who had kept his uncle Mike's song safe for 70 years. Robbie has given me permission to put his address and phone details here for anyone who wants to contact him directly. (But please be mindful of the time differences and don't phone him at unsocial hours.) He has his own cassette tape (no CD yet) which he sells for £5 (1 Irish Pound = US$ 1.38 approx.) plus postage (price in 1998). Robbie McMahon Greenview Spancilhill Ennis Co. Clare [Ireland] Ph: 065 29874 Ph: 011 353 65 29874 (from the USA) Frank McGrath Nenagh Singers Circle A newspaper article published in 2002 in the Irish Independent identified Robbie McMahon as 75 years of age, making his birth date approximately 1927. If this is true, his meeting with John Considine happened when he was quite young - or it conuld be an indication of possible discrepancies in his story. -JRO- |
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Subject: DTStudy: Spancil Hill From: Alice Date: 28 May 02 - 10:53 AM This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion. This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread. Search for other DTStudy threadsLyrics in Digital Tradition as of 5/28/02 SPANCIL HILL Last night as I lay dreaming of pleasant days gone by My mind being bent on rambling to Ireland I did fly I stepped on board a vision and I followed with the wind And I shortly came to anchor at the cross of Spancil Hill It being the 23rd June the day before the fair When lreland's sons and daughters in crowds assembled there The young and the old, the brave and the bold their journey to fulfill There were jovial conversations at the fair of Spancil Hill I went to see my neighbors to hear what they might say The old ones were all dead and gone and the young one's turning grey I met with the tailor Quigley, he's a bould as ever still Sure he used to make my britches when I lived in Spancil Hill I paid a flying visit to my first and only love She's as white as any lily and as gentle as a dove She threw her arms around me saying "Johnny I love you still " Oh she's Ned the farmers daughter and the flower of Spancil HiII I dreamt I held and kissed her as in the days of yore She said, "Johnny you're only joking like many's the time before" The cock he crew in the morning he crew both loud and shrill And I awoke in California, many miles from Spancil Hill. Recorded by Christy Moore on Prosperous @Irish filename[ SPNLHL Tune file : SPNLHL CLICK TO PLAY ARB
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From thread Where Is Spancil Hill? http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?ThreadID=4808 Click Here
Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
This is the original version of "Spancilhill". From: Wolfgang Date: 10-Mar-99 - 09:35 AM
There's a booklet from Sean P.OCillin, titled "Ballads of Co. Clare 1850-1976". To my surprise, it prints (with very few changes) the original lyrics Frank has posted on May, 5th, 1998. In this booklet the song is called "The Cross of Spancelhill[sic!]", the correct author is given and as tune "Spancelhill" is given. Does this mean the song was written to a then known tune also called "Spancilhill"? |
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