Lyr Req: Joe Peel (Peter Bond)

Subject: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Tony D
Date: 24 Apr 98 - 03:44 AM

Looking for lyrics and information (writer, known recordings and background) regarding a song called "Joe Peel". Words possibly include:

"Workington way when lads left school...... For Joe could tackle hard and Joe could run. He only needed time for growing. And then he'd sign his name to play, and to the city moved away."

Why did Joe have to leave football and go down the pit?

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Ondelyn Banks
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 06:36 PM

Just a guess, but one of the lines that I'm still not sure of says "________ be rulin' glasses" (I think?).

I am still wondering if this is June saying "ruling classes" or someone ruled he needed glasses, which in those long ago days might have put a football player out of commission.   Damn woman, I hope I never go drinking with her, she's too difficult to understand as it is.

Love June. : )

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 06:47 PM

"Joe Peel" was written by Peter Bond.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 06:54 PM

See previous thread for lyrics/info

click here

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 06:56 PM

"Jarrow lads v. ruling classes"

If you type Joe Peel into the Filter box and set the Age drop-down to All and press the Refresh button you'll find several threads about Peter Bond's song, including the words.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 07:02 PM

Jarrow v Ruling Classes refers to the unemployment situation in the North-East of England which caused the famous Jarrow Hunger Marches when hundreds of unemployed men marched from Newcastle-on-Tyne to London.

Joe's return to the pit could have been because young footballers in the 30's were payed very little (unlike today) or with the outbreak of war he may have been drafted to the pit.

This is a wonderful song

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: breezy
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 07:02 PM

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: padgett
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 07:46 AM

Peter Bond many years at Redcar Folk Festival (now Saltburn) as I recollect rumoured comeback on the folk scene

June Tabor recording: I think is originally from around Brentwood Essex so she would be between 300 and 400 miles from Workington; dialect would be nothing like her own ~ altho I believe she spent some time in the Lake District!!

Very very expressive singer, not my place to make political comment as to Jarrow lads and working classes and June's leanings

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:02 AM

The sport in question was rugby league, which would fare even worse than football.

eric

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Cllr
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:48 AM

Terry "Leadfingers" Silver does a fantastic rendition of this song, it never fails to move me when I hear it. Cllr

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:05 AM

Tony ....... don't know where you're based but Peter may be at the Runswick Bay Rescue Boat fund raiser on Saturday at Milnsbridge Socialist Club .... see thread for more details

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 08:35 AM

Peter's brother, Trevor, is an occasional guest on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 09:04 AM

Workington way it would almost certainly be rugby league, or if dated pre- 1920s Northern Union. Did Jarrow ever have a league team though? Are you sure it doesn't say Barrow?

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 05:32 PM

One of my 5 favourite folk songs.

"Joe" reminds me of my adopted father who was my actual uncle.
the finest man I've known. I wonder if "Joe" was someone Pete knew?

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:03 AM

Workington way, when lads left school
just the pit and foundry beckon
young Joe went doen to hew the coal
but not for long, so some folks reckoned.
For Joe could tackle hard and Joe could run
he only needed time for growing,
and soon he'd signed his to play
and to the city went away

The reference to Jarrow is the Jarrow hunger marches of 1936

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/protest_reform/jarrow_04.shtml

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:42 AM

Now on the sports page he'd appear
teh idol of the local lassie's
out on the field he played it fair
while all the girls made forward passes
until another match turned overhead
Jarrow lads V ruling classes
and with no future in it now
he was home again and up the brow

Back underground to hear no lark
thirty years from dawn till evening
until the coal had left it's mark
and to the bank the earth returned him
no more to sweat his days out in the dark
some years on top the dust had earned
and all the while the sickness grew
still he'd ask what he could do for you

I'll come back with more later ...... love the line about girls making forward passes

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:24 AM

Yes, thanks, I see the change of emphasis now- new and greater game and all that- but RL was still paying in the depression years, indeed that and boxing were used by a lot young men to alleviate poverty.

In this context, it would be interesting to know exactly why he's supposed to have retired from rugby. The RL were not full time professionals until the late 1960s, and it was a requirement that a player should have a day job. Perhaps the implication is that, unemployed (up the brow - is this pit brow- waiting outside the pit for a job- or the 'broo'- unemployment register?) he had to give up professional rugby? Perhaps a suggestion of victimisation for his part in the bigger game? This certainly happened to my own grandfather.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:31 AM

Isn't it 'home again and underground'? I'm sure that's what Kathryn Roberts sings.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 07:40 AM

Underground is also use in the first line of the next verse, knowing Peter's songwriting skills I doubt he would use the same word twice so close together, however I will check

next verse

He'd do odd jobs for one and all
though snow was thick or rain was teeming
and all the world would seem to call
the kettle never finished steaming
reach up! he'd say, by God you're looking thin
while mischief in his eyes were gleaming
if Lizzie thinks you're hungry still
there'll be nowt for us in her will

The day you left I stayed outside
scalding tears no comfort knowing
we all turned up to say goodbye
the church was filled to overflowing
you'd never have believe it if you'd seen
how many people mourned your going
and just how lucky folks still feel
to say they knew Joe Peel

repeat last 4 lines

I'd actually forgotten just how moving this song is ......

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 07:50 AM

oop 'ere int North t'brow is the top of a pit. So up t' brow is to go to (and then down) the pit

Subject: Lyr Add: JOE PEEL (Peter Bond)
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 08:39 AM

There have been a few other threads on this but none with the right words. Raggy's come close, but there are a few errors there too. Here's what Peter sang, with changes from Raggy's version in bold.

Mick

---

JOE PEEL
(Peter Bond)

Workington way, when lads left school
Just the pit and foundry beckoned.
Young Joe went down to hew the coal
But not for long, so some folks reckoned.
For Joe could tackle hard and Joe could run,
He only needed time for growing,
And soon he'd signed his name to play
And to the city moved away.

Now on the sports page he'd appear,
The idol of the local lasses.
Out on the field he played it fair,
While all the girls made forward passes.
Until another match turned all the heads -
Jarrow lads V ruling classes,
And with no future in it now
It's home again and underground.

Back underground to hear no lark,
Thirty years from dawn till evening,
Until the coal had left its mark
And to the bank the earth returned him.
No more to sweat his days out in the dark,
Some years on top the dust had earned him,
And all the while the sickness grew
Still he'd ask what he could do for you.

He'd do odd jobs for one and all,
Though snow was thick or rain was teeming,
And all the world would seem to call,
The kettle never finished steaming.
"Reach up!", he'd say, "By God you're looking thin",
While mischief in his eyes was gleaming,
"If Lizzie thinks you're hungry still
There'll be nowt for us in her will".

The day you left I stayed outside,
With scalding tears, no comfort knowing.
We all turned up to say goodbye,
The church was filled to overflowing
You'd never've believed it if you'd seen
How many people mourned your going
And just how lucky folks still feel
To say they knew Joe Peel.

You'd never have believed it if you'd seen
How many people mourned your going
And just how lucky folks still feel
To say they knew Joe Peel.


Source: Peter Bond LP: It's all right for some

(Few possible mishearings: beckoned/reckoned might be beckon/reckonand the sickness might be his sickness, but I think the above is right)

The sleeve notes say: "Joe was a miner and ex-Rugby League player from Flimby in West Cumberland. Silicosis forced him to give up work in the pit to work above ground but he never stopped doing things for people. The kindest man I've met - everyone knew Joe and everyone liked him"

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 08:43 AM

(I'm not surprised there are differences from Peter's version though. I've sang this since the 70s, when I used to see the then fellow-Teessider quite often. But the song as I sing it now has developed several changes from the original; if I'd written it down from my singing it would have been as different as Raggy's!).

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:25 AM

Thanks for that Mick - I'm about to commit this one to CD, (commit songicide, some might say! LOL!) so I'll work from the words above.
Cheers mate.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:45 AM

Michael

I don't actually see a great deal of differences in our two versions, however Peter may be at the Runswick Bay do on Saturday so we may be able to get the definitive version from the man himself, Johnny watch this space, trust you have got the permission to record from Peter :-)

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 11:02 AM

Raggy

I did only say a few!

It was good to see Peter at your do last time. He did say then that he was thinking of doing a few gigs, but I've heard nothing since. It's be good to catch up with him on Saturday, but sadly I can't make it this time. Hope it goes well anyway, and if he's there give him Mick Pearce's regards.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:57 PM

Thanks Mick and Raggy ,even reading the words of that wonderful song can bring tears to my eyes.

Wonder why Pete Bond stopped writing??    Must be hard to try and match "Joe"....Ake

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Cllr
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:18 AM

speaking of bookings mick when are you going to do my club? sorry for the thread hijack

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:27 AM

PM Mick Pearce with a date!

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:00 AM

Hey Raggy, my understanding of PRS rules is that copyright-owners' permissions aren't necessary for material used on a limited-availability production (under 500 copies). However, if you have Peter's address or e-mail address, I'll be only too happy to seek his blessing! PM me if you have either? :0)

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:15 AM

Johnny only too happy to oblige, I'm sure peter will be delighted that someone wants to record his material. I'm not home tonight but hopefully will see Peter on Saturday.

Akenaton ...... I think Peter still writes but he found performing so very stressful he decided to give up some years ago, although recently he has started doing the odd floor spot. He released 3 solo albums and one in conjunction with Tim Laycock and Bill Caddick called "A Duck on his Head" which was comprised of songs about a circus surprising.

To my mind he was one of the most consumate performers I've ever has the pleasure to see, and a nice bloke to boot

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:17 AM

Thanks Raggy.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 12:42 PM

Don't know where you got the info re copyright Johnny.   First I've heard of it.
I thought copyright was needed for anything that was made for sale or reward.
Anyone else know anything???

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 03:55 PM

Straight off the PRS website and sppplication form, and from the very helpful young lady who I spoke to at the PRS.

BTW read my post again, I was referring to permissions. I didn't say there's no need to pay the PRS, I said there's no requirement to obtain the permission of the composer to use his/her/their song, provided the production is for a limited quantity only (i.e. no more than 500 copies total). There's still a fee to pay the PRS (and therefore ultimately the composer) - depends on the number of copies and the length of the CD (time).
S:0)

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:01 PM

Totally different to a 'commercial' production, where permissions are required and payment is made on the basis of, inter alia, numbers of pressings.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:26 PM

I really would like to get this clear and apologise for taking over this thread but cannot believe that PRS would make such a statement.

Their website states .....
   
What rights does a Copyright owner have?

The Act gives a copyright owner the exclusive right to do, and authorise others to do certain acts (known as 'restricted acts') in the UK.

What are the restricted acts?

These are:

* to copy the work
         
* to issue copies of the work to the public
         
* to rent or lend the work to the public
         
* to perform, show or play the work in public
         
* to communicate the work to the public*
         
* to make an adaptation of the work or do any of the above in relation to an adaptation.      
*includes broadcasting, broadcasting on demand and use of music on the Internet interactive services, including satellite and cable transmissions.

No-one can authorise any of the above acts without the copyright owner's permission.


If this is going to be contentious then I will start a seperate thread.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:51 PM

I can only tell you what it says in the PRS' application form, on their website, and also what they told me verbally, in connection with 'Limited Availability Productions'. They specifically state that permissions are not required for Audio CDs where the total number to be produced is limited to 500 copies or less. I know of several artists who have produced such CDs and they have done so on this exact premise. Here's what it says under 'Educational and Limited Availability Productions on their website:-

"MCPS has recently introduced a scheme to mlicence non-corporate audio and audio-visual productions that have a total run of under 500 copies. Although this licence allows easy access to MCPS members' repertoire without the need for obtaining permission from each individual copyright owner, there are several exclusions that apply".

It then goes on to explain the exclusions, which are to do with branding, sponsorship, defamation, sexual or violent or drug-related content, or political or other contentious material.

The person I spoke to there reiterated the above, (twice in fact, as I was determined to be certain on this point) and confirmed that specific permissions are not required for this kind of production, where sales are not made on a retail basis (i.e. in retail outlets such as record stiores etc.)

I know of several artists who have produced CDs on precisely this basis, for sale by them at gigs etc., without any problem.

As I said earlier, the rules for Audio Product Licencing for Retail Sales are different, and are covered by AP1, AP2 or AP2A agreements, and require specific permissions.

That's good enough for me!

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:55 PM

Nutty, I'll PM you.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:59 PM

This only applies to material that has been registered with the PRS and for which PRS have taken on copyright responsibility.

All other material still requires the permission of the copyright owner before it can be recorded.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 05:11 PM

I've PMd you

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 06:37 PM

This really is a very dangerous misunderstanding of copyright laws and PRS involvement.

Someone could easily finish up being sued for breech of copyright.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 04:00 AM

I spoke to Peter last night and he is happy for Johnny to record this song, but he too said that permission of the copyright holder was not required provided the PRs were informed by the artist of who the ccopyright holder was.

As to the words well both MCP and myself were almost correct, in the second verse Mick is correct to say "until another match turned all the heads" and I was correct to say "it's home again and up the brow"

Sadly Peter won't be joining us tomorrow night at the Runswick Bay do but I hope I planted a seed to induce him to publish a book of his songs, we talked about it for some time discussing formats, whether to put chords in, or as I suggested a couple of lines to indicate the inspiration behind the song and some of Peter's more obscure chords shapes and/or tunings

Good Luck with the album Johnny, I've PM'd Peters contact details to you , with his permission !

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,David
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:07 AM

Having read the interesting comments above I would like to learn this song. As a new guitarist, can anyone let me know what the chords are? Thanks

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:18 AM

Nutty I am probably wrong (coz thats what I do mostly) but I think the "What rights does a copywright owner have" thing you posted refered to the actual copying of the CD or recording, not the re-recording of the words and tune by another artist in a studio. This is where the max limit of 500 pressings comes in.

Spot

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:20 AM

Raggy

You know I've listened to that song hundreds of times over the years (including before I posted the words above) and never heard up the brow until I just listened to it again! It's funny how conditioned you get (take note MCP you complacent bugger!).

Best wishes for today, hope it goes well and I'm sorry I can't be there.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: shepherdlass
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:38 PM

And I've sung it for years as "up the Browns", assuming it to mean team colours (shame on me as a northerner, although in our neck of the woods "t'brow" is the "bank"!)

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:55 PM

Well, I'm fae Scotland and the only pit I've been in has got blankets on it......But I knew what up t'brow was.

If any of you really know Pete tell him thanks for writing a classic, and makin' my life a little better...Ake

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,Pete's Brother
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 11:25 AM

Good to hear about you recording Joe Peel , love to hear it.
Did you say we had sailed together? If so are you a Sussex type person. I am trying to picture you and wonder if you were the young chap who plwyed guitar so much better than me.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:16 PM

Sorry I'm late in replying to this SPOT, but I've been away for the weekend.

I was trying to make get clear the distinction between copyrights that have (by virtue of being a member of and registering material with PRS/MCPS) been passed over to the control of PRS/MCPS, and those that are still in the hands of the songwriters.

I write songs .............. I hold the copyright on those songs and regardless what PRS/MCPS might say on their website, anyone recording those songs needs my permission to do so.

It's not that I wouldn't like to collect royalties etc... it's just that I can't afford the £150 would cost me to join /register.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 04:00 AM

I was always of the understanding that anyone could record whatever they wanted provided the composer/author was credited as being the creator of the material and that it was a matter of courtesy only to ask permission

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: nutty
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:23 AM

No guest that is definitely not the case.....which is what I have been trying to explain.

Please read the 'Basics of Copyright' section on the PRS/MCPS website where this issue is clearly explained.

about copyright

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:57 AM

Does anyone have the accompaniment for this wonderful song?

Will D/A/G/ work? Anyone got any ideas out there?

Best wishes

PAtrick

Subject: Chords Add: JOE PEEL
From: Singing Referee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:44 AM

 Workington way when lads left school
  D                             A
  Only pit or foundry beckoned
  G                   A
  Young Joe went down to hew the coal
  D                              A
  But not for long so some folk reckoned
  G                             A
  For Joe could tackle hard and Joe could run
      D                                   G
  He only needed time for growin'
  Em                      A
  And now he's signed his name to play
  D                               A
  And to the city moved away
  G          A           D

Use whatever variations on that which sound good to you, but that's the basic structure.

One of mine and Moses' favourites!

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: Singing Referee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:48 AM

Just read what I posted. Chords are ok but words of the last but one line should be "And soon he'd signed....."

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:25 AM

thanks

This is what June says about her performance of the song:
It's a series of sepia or newspaper photographs and that's the way Peter Bond intended it to be. The miner in the bath, all black from head to foot, ready to scrub down, before they had showers at the pit. I see that picture. That's an amazing tribute to somebody that you love. The person that it speaks of is a real person. My Uncle Spencer was very much that sort of person, always doing things for other people, cheerful, mischievous, jokey, and when he died it was a real hole not just in our lives, but in so many other people's. That's the connection I make when I sing that song. When you've had somebody special in your life like that, whether as a child or as an adult, when they do die, that song says so much about loss and remembrance.

Subject: RE: Lyrics and Information: Joe Peel
From: GUEST,mulv
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 09:48 PM

Peter Bond was one of the best blokes you'd ever know - incidently,a terrific songwriter as well - but a terrific guy before anything else.Apart from Joe Peel,he wrote 'lark across the vapour trail' and many others.When I ran the folk club in Malvern (UK) many moons ago,I looked forward to Pete's appearances.For me,'Joe Peel' ranks alongside Metzer's 'Farewell to the Gold'.
I was in Oldham last weekend for the Saddleworth Rushcart - where were you,Pete ? Where you gone ? I know loads of people who would love to see and listen to you again.Give me a shout at
[e-mail]
Would love to know what you're doing now !

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Joe Peel (Peter Bond)
From: GUEST,Carl Corbett
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 05:16 AM

I’m learning Joe Peel with concertina accompaniment after a friend played me ‘it’s alright for some’. It’s one of the finest albums I’ve ever heard yet I’m not sure I’ve ever heard Peters name mentioned in a folk club (I live near Manchester). I’d love him to know his music is still reaching & affecting people.