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BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare

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Big John 29 May 02 - 09:17 PM
Liz the Squeak 30 May 02 - 12:26 AM
michaelr 30 May 02 - 12:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 May 02 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,Bullfrog Jones (on the road) 30 May 02 - 04:38 AM
Bert 30 May 02 - 05:14 AM
Declan 30 May 02 - 05:17 AM
greg stephens 30 May 02 - 06:46 AM
donal 30 May 02 - 07:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 May 02 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,Mikey joe 30 May 02 - 08:49 AM
donal 30 May 02 - 08:55 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 May 02 - 08:59 AM
GUEST,sophocleese 30 May 02 - 11:01 AM
Bullfrog Jones 30 May 02 - 11:10 AM
donal 30 May 02 - 11:27 AM
mooman 30 May 02 - 11:28 AM
donal 30 May 02 - 11:37 AM
Declan 30 May 02 - 11:40 AM
catspaw49 30 May 02 - 11:51 AM
mooman 30 May 02 - 12:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 May 02 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,Den 30 May 02 - 01:48 PM
alanabit 30 May 02 - 02:11 PM
Bill D 30 May 02 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Den at work 30 May 02 - 02:44 PM
ard mhacha 30 May 02 - 04:11 PM
alanabit 30 May 02 - 04:18 PM
Nigel Parsons 31 May 02 - 03:18 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 02 - 05:21 AM
ard mhacha 31 May 02 - 05:54 AM
gnu 31 May 02 - 07:22 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 02 - 07:51 AM
Jon Freeman 31 May 02 - 09:26 AM
Big Mick 31 May 02 - 09:45 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 31 May 02 - 09:57 AM
catspaw49 31 May 02 - 10:00 AM
Big John 31 May 02 - 10:14 AM
GUEST,Big John 31 May 02 - 03:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 02 - 08:13 PM
Bluebeard 31 May 02 - 09:55 PM
mooman 01 Jun 02 - 04:26 AM
alanabit 01 Jun 02 - 05:30 AM
donal 01 Jun 02 - 07:40 AM
Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland 01 Jun 02 - 10:16 AM
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Paddy Plastique 04 Jun 02 - 04:27 AM
Bullfrog Jones 04 Jun 02 - 04:52 AM
ard mhacha 04 Jun 02 - 05:47 AM
Bullfrog Jones 04 Jun 02 - 06:16 AM
Wolfgang 04 Jun 02 - 06:30 AM
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GUEST,shanty_steve 04 Jun 02 - 10:30 AM
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Big John 04 Jun 02 - 09:20 PM
The Hiker 04 Jun 02 - 09:53 PM
Den 04 Jun 02 - 10:01 PM
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donal 05 Jun 02 - 05:42 AM
catspaw49 05 Jun 02 - 06:53 AM
donal 05 Jun 02 - 07:06 AM
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catspaw49 05 Jun 02 - 08:37 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 05 Jun 02 - 09:24 AM
IanC 05 Jun 02 - 09:33 AM
Declan 05 Jun 02 - 09:36 AM
Big John 05 Jun 02 - 09:42 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 02 - 09:47 AM
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GUEST 05 Jun 02 - 09:54 AM
donal 05 Jun 02 - 09:55 AM
Declan 05 Jun 02 - 10:13 AM
Airto 05 Jun 02 - 10:21 AM
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The Hiker 05 Jun 02 - 12:50 PM
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An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 05 Jun 02 - 01:21 PM
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Wolfgang 05 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM
GUEST,Den at work 05 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM
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Declan 06 Jun 02 - 07:05 AM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 06 Jun 02 - 07:16 AM
Wolfgang 06 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM
Bullfrog Jones 06 Jun 02 - 08:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jun 02 - 10:07 AM
Paddy Plastique 06 Jun 02 - 10:14 AM
GUEST,Mikey joe 06 Jun 02 - 10:20 AM
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ard mhacha 06 Jun 02 - 01:46 PM
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GUEST,Fred 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM
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donal 07 Jun 02 - 07:07 AM
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Subject: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big John
Date: 29 May 02 - 09:17 PM

Oh Lord its so hard to be humble when your'e perfect in every way
I called Mick McCarthy a wanker, now that English whore won't let me play
There wasn't a ball or a jersey when we turned out to play in Sai Pan
I spoke up alone now I'm heading home while the rest of them go to Japan.

There's 22 other players, I can't tell you one of their names
I carried them all right through Europe, on my own I won all of the games
I play with Manchester United, the fans there all treat me like God
But I'm brought down to Earth when I can't wear the shirt of Ireland my Ould Mother Sod.

I'll buy a field in Athenry and there I'll build my own Bertie Bowl
I'll have Teflon and floodlights and play 5 asides at night
And Mick can stick the World Cup up his hole.

Oh Lord its so hard to be humble when everyone knows I'm Roy Keane
I've cause to be grumpy, just ask Eamonn Dunphy, his book will explain what I mean
McCarthy is left with the losers and the debt ridden poor Irish Fan
I let down the side but I still have my pride while Paddy heads off to Japan.

I'll buy a field in Athenry, Build a Bertie Bowl with Covered roof and stand
I'll have Teflon and floodlights and play five asides At night
And we'll export Mick McCarthy to Japan,

This is for the Irish Mudcatters who had a traumatic week in the run up to the World Cup when Roy Keane, the Captain and star player had a slight argument with Mick McCarthy, the manager and was sent home to Ireland.

line breaks added by a
joeclone


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 May 02 - 12:26 AM

Omit the country and you have it for quite a lot of the English speaking world.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: michaelr
Date: 30 May 02 - 12:52 AM

So Ireland did qualify, then?

Michael (ducking for cover)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 May 02 - 04:36 AM

If it wasn't for the opening line I might have missed the fact that this is a parody (of Mac Davis). Can some kind "Joe Clone" please add line breaks ?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Bullfrog Jones (on the road)
Date: 30 May 02 - 04:38 AM

It's a real shame that a footballer as talented as Roy Keane should be such an arrogant prat. It's interesting to compare his attitude with the way David Beckham has matured and grown into the role of national captain, carrying himself with (for most observers) surprising dignity, with none of Keane's bullying and petulance. I suspect that all the other Irish players will be making a superhuman effort to prove that they can perform without him, and I hope they do!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bert
Date: 30 May 02 - 05:14 AM

Now just exactly why does this episode remind me of Harvey Smith?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 30 May 02 - 05:17 AM

Nice one John. I asume the three line verses are sung to the air of The Fields of Athenry. Come up and sing it for us sometime soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 May 02 - 06:46 AM

Is the World Cup happening soon? I'm surprised there hasn't been any publicity.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 30 May 02 - 07:41 AM

Gotta profoundly disagree with Bullfrog here. How a player like Roy Keane can not be playing for us in the World Cup beggars belief. It simply isn't credible.

Sure, he is a difficult player to manage but then that is a managers job. Many of the worlds best sports stars have had a self-destruct button that needs to be controlled (John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors, George Best, Ian Botham all spring to mind). That is the managers job. Consider alex ferguson for a moment - at one stage he was handling Beckham, Cantona and Keane - all on the one team !!! - now thats management.

Neither Mick McCarthy nor Roy Keane are any great loss to the Diplomatic Corps but McCarthy had one job to do - to get our best team out in the World Cup Finals. In this job he has failed miserably.

BTW I hope to god Greg is displaying his finely honed sense of irony !!!

C'mon Cameroon

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 May 02 - 08:28 AM

Donal: can't find you in the members profiles, but would your cheer be for Cameroon:
A: because they're not English
or B: Because with a first name like Donal your family name is some variation of Cameroon ??

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 30 May 02 - 08:49 AM

Nigel

donal is an Irish name (for Daniel) I think he is joking as Irelands opening game is against Cameroon on saturday


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 30 May 02 - 08:55 AM

Only half joking guys....I live here in Cork where Cameroon jerseys are selling like hot cakes.....It is seen as a protest against the FAI and Mick McCarthy. Don't think that I could ever go that far but I can understand the emotions.....especially as Roy is a Cork man...

Donal (think my profile is donalh)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 May 02 - 08:59 AM

Donalh: but the 'h' is silent, like the 'p' in bath!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,sophocleese
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:01 AM

What! I've been spelling bath all wrong these many years? Good luck to all the teams in the cup this year. I intend to spend many hours glued to the telly.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:10 AM

Donal, from the reports coming out of the training camp, Roy Keane would have been taking on Cameroon by himself, 'cos the other 22 players would have refused to play alongsied him!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:27 AM

Absolutely bullfrog......he was completely marginalised - interesting study in group dynamics huh ? Picture this.....Mick McCarthy at the training session "h'okay lads....u can support me 100% or u can fuck off back home like...what's it to be ?" dont need to be the brain of britain for that one !!

He was hung out to dry - had to organise all his own filghts out of Sai Pan. Sat alone in his bedroom as he heard his teammates outside getting on the bus...no support for him - except 10000 miles away - the whole of ireland supports him.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: mooman
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:28 AM

My puntsworth!

I think Roy Keane is an arrogant prat and disruptor full of his own exaggerated importance. It all reminds me of the Cantona fiasco and the fact he wasn't selected for France for similar reasons.

It speaks volumes that the rest of the squad don't want him back and I think they will make a superhuman effort to prove they can play without him. Probably it's the best thing to have happened to unite the team.

Good riddance to him and I'll be cheering the boys on win or lose and I'm sure they'll provide a good account of themselves.

I quite agree with Bullfrog Jones..one just has to look at David Beckham and how he has matured into a superb role model for all. Mr Keane ought to learn something from his Man U teammate.

(rant off)

Good luck to all the teams involved even though I'll be supporting Ireland. I'm hoping (one can live in hope!) for some truly excellent football and an absence of prima donnas.

All the best,

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:37 AM

Guys......a little perspective here !!! What has Keane done ? Did he hit someone ? Was he caught in a brothel ? Was he taking drugs ? No he was not - his only crime was to complain about the preparation of the FAI 1) There were NO balls to train with 2) Their gear had not arrived and they had to train in their clothes !! 3) The pitch was, literally, an old car park - far too hard to train on. As Roy said "this failure to prepare was preparing for failure" Ok - he lost the plot while he was complaing but itwas in NO WAY a sacking offence. God....he was trying to get better facilities for HIS team.

WRT the rest of the team making a superhuman effort.....name one other player fit to lace Roys boots and I will personally fly you to Japan for the finals!

Go Cameroon !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:40 AM

This is another (unattributed) parody that I was sent today on the same subject.

The Fields of Angry Roy

-1- By a lonely Geisha Girl We heard a mad Roy calling Michael you have led the team astray For you let the goalies sit Whilst me and the team were getting fit. Its not this bad when Man United play .

Chorus (All together. . . )

Bon-zai the Fields of Angry Roy Where once we watched the opposition fry. Duff was on the wing we had Keano's name to sing It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Angry Roy.

-2- By a lonely Geisha Girl I heard a mad Roy calling Nothing matters Micky when you're Me, Against the Germans and the rest You'll be without your best Now try and raise the spirits draped in Green .

Chorus (Right. . . )

Bon-zai the Fields of Angry Roy Where once we watched the opposition fry. Duff was on the wing we had Keano's name to sing It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Angry Roy.

-3- By a lonely Geisha Girl The team will watch our flags unfurl Behind them more than ever we will be And even without Keane The risin' sun will soon turn Green It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Angry Roy.

Chorus (One last time. . . )

Bon-zai the Fields of Angry Roy Where once we watched the opposition fry. Duff was on the wing we had Keano's name to sing It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Angry Roy.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:51 AM

Considering the amount of carping going on about the new ball, maybe his point of not having any to practice with was justified.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: mooman
Date: 30 May 02 - 12:20 PM

What did he do...?

As I understand it (I wasn't there of couse!) is that he %$#@*&&%#ed and *&%%#@@$%&&ed and slagged off the manager in a most rude and provocative way, thereby undermining Mick McCarthy (...not even &%@$ing Irish according to Mr Keane adding a racist element wonderfully lacking in the days of Jack Charlton).

Now I know what would happen if I complained about my working conditions and aired such an opinion about my manager in front of all of the other "staff"!

Get real Roy! You're a fine footballer OK but your recent behaviour has been a disgrace. If you had just eaten a little humble pie things might have been different. Or perhaps you just want to do Mr McCarthy's job as well?

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Ireland's nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 02 - 01:01 PM

"...in Cork where Cameroon jerseys are selling like hot cakes....." - now, if it had been the neighbouring country Cote d'Ivoire that Ireland had been up against, it would have been really confusing for the shirts, and even more so for the flags. Have a look...

The people who must really be squirming about this is An Post (the Irish Post Office, with their new set of stamps that's only just gone on sale featuring four Irish Soccer Heroes, featuring Roy Keane. Though maybe this will jack up the sales.

So the rest of the squad are just pretending they are glad to see the back of him because they are scared, Donal? After he's been sticking his neck out fighting for them? Couldn't it just be they really are glad to see the back of him, and they didn't see it that way at all?

Football's a team sport,and if the team are really that set against him, they'll be better without him.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 30 May 02 - 01:48 PM

I've followed this sorry scenario from start to finish and I think at the very least McCarthy has to shoulder atleast half the blame. First off he should have let things go after Keane and he met in private to discuss preparations eg no balls, no training kits including footwear, no medical equipment (which would have been handy considering the condition of the training pitch) and none of the special fluids that were neccesary for the players to drink during training because of the heat. Many of the players had complained and joked about the shoddy preparations and all this after a milk run flight that saw them change planes four times (I think I'd have been cranky too).

McCarthy called a meeting in front of all the players and things didn't get out of hand until he accused Keane of faking injury so as to not have to travel to Iran for the return play-off leg. Now anyone who really follows the game will know that Keane dragged himself through the first match because of his on-going knee problems. At the end of that game he met with the Irish physio and they discussed his injury. Apparently after that game Keane's knee was very swollen and it was decided that it would be too risky to involve him in the return match. The Irish team staff McCarthy included felt that 2-0 was a good enough result to bring to the second game. Keane was thanked for his contribution and told to return for treatment to Manchester. According to Keane he didn't call McCarthy an English anything. That would be unusual since he plays with and against Englishmen all the time. He admitted to calling him a fucking wanker and a crap manager.

Lets face it folks Roy Keane is one of the best midfielders in the world. So lets not compare him with the likes of David Beckham. Beckham couldn't lace Keane's boots. No one player in the history of either Manchester United or Ireland has contributed so much to his team. The man never quits. His only crime is that he sets high standards and he expects that of those around him.

And to be honest if I had been Keane and a second rate player/manager had called me a liar I think I would have popped him one on the nose aswell.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 30 May 02 - 02:11 PM

A manager that backed down in front of his players after being insulted would have lost the confidence of all of them instead of just one. I can understand Keane's annoyance, but when he slagged off the manager in front of the players, he was demonstrating lack of self control - the very opposite of leadership. Keane is a damned fine player, but to say that Beckham comes nowhere near is nonsense. If you saw the way the latter carried his team against Greece, you know very well that he lacks nothing in either commitment or talent. I wish Ireland the best of luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bill D
Date: 30 May 02 - 02:29 PM

I have about had it up to here with celebrities who think that talent excuses them from being civil--be they sports stars, movie stars, musicians..or whatever.

This is a GAME, and no matter whether folks in parts of the world have their souls and national pride invested in it, it will remain a game!

The man went WAY too far in his ranting, and I wish the rest of the team well in carrying on without him.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 30 May 02 - 02:44 PM

He didn't have to back down. All he had to do was meet one to one with Keane and air the particular differences. McCarthy had an agenda and so far its working. When Ireland don't make it out of their group though (and believe me I hope that I'm wrong) McCarthy can explain his actions and I hope that the useless FAI have the balls to send him packing and hire a professional.

I did see the England Greece game by the way. Greece were very unfortunate they played the better football. One free kick from David Beckham doesn't qualify in making him a better player. It meant a lot to England but Keane puts in performances like that all the time without the British media hype.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 May 02 - 04:11 PM

According to Liam Brady,after all his time in football Keane hasn`t a friend in the game. I thought sport was all about enjoyment and sportsmanship, Holland a member of the Irish Team stated that from the moment they arrived Keane was moaning, the first week was to consist of light training and relaxing,Keane and the rest of the side were made aware of this before they left. Good luck to the Irish side. Ard Mhacha


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 30 May 02 - 04:18 PM

It wasn't just one free kick! Greece were indeed the better side. Without Beckham's contribution throughout the whole game, England would have been dead and buried long before his superb free kick. Keane is also very highly rated by the UK press. Beckham is not the brightest of blokes, but he sure does have the knack of making less enemies...


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 02 - 03:18 AM

Ireland gave us Guinness & Keane. I think we're still ahead.
Being Welsh, I'm supporting Ireland (with or without prima donna "Superstars"


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 02 - 05:21 AM

Are there any of those Welsh Paraguayans in the Argentine side?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 02 - 05:54 AM

Surely it`s Welsh Patagonians. Ard Mhacha


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 02 - 07:22 AM

Kickoff in less than ten minutes. It's going to an exciting tournament anyway, whether Roy got carded for his temper in the dressing room or on the field. Go Ireland.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 02 - 07:51 AM

Quite right Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 31 May 02 - 09:26 AM

And go Senegal!!! What an opening match!

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 May 02 - 09:45 AM

I don't have the cable where I live, so I canna watch the matches. How about posting results here, folks.

And sorry for exporting the "superego" syndrome to the rest of the world. I never heard of Pele doing this shite.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 May 02 - 09:57 AM

What a shock! red hot favourites, and current world and european champions France have just been beaten 1-0 by outsiders Senegal.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 02 - 10:00 AM

Off to a good start!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big John
Date: 31 May 02 - 10:14 AM

Whats the difference between Roy Keane and God? God doesn't think he's Roy Keane.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Big John
Date: 31 May 02 - 03:43 PM

Donal, a chara, I can understand the frustration in Cork. Of course its easy to defend Roy. The problem is that after the initial row had been patched up he gave an interview to the Irish Times criticising his teammates. I know that he was still angry at that stage. Funny thing, I dont blame Mick or Roy but I do blame the arseholes in the Irish Time who wanted their"EXCLUSIVE" and printed it in the full knowledge that it would f**k up the whole sytem. CONGRATULATIONs TO THE IRISH TIMEs, "Publish and be damned".


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 02 - 08:13 PM

If the man chose to give an interview to the Irish Times, it'd have been unprofessional of the paper to suppress it. It would in effect have been a kind of lie, and a breach of trust with the readers.

It's not the job of a paper to censor the news because it might upset people. They do often enough, that's true, but they are wrong when they do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bluebeard
Date: 31 May 02 - 09:55 PM

Sorry but Ireland are better off without that dirty bastard. He is no sportsman and not as good as he thinks he is. Obviously he is still pissed off that Man Ure failed to win anything this year. Good riddance. Erin Go Bragh !


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: mooman
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 04:26 AM

Cameroon 1 - Ireland 1!

Well played lads...you did us proud!

Erin Go Bragh!

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 05:30 AM

Really? Then bloody well done Ireland!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 07:40 AM

Hey Bluebeard....we can all do without the dirty old bastard bit....Well done to Ireland today - the country is starting to cheer up a small bit. I feel a bit like Ross in Friends when out of frustration he used to shout at Rachel "WE WERE ON A BREAK" - only in my frustration I shout "IT WASN'T A SACKING OFFENCE". Roll on Germany,

Life goes on,

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 10:16 AM

When Ireland drew 1-1 with Cameroon, then who needs such a big headed eejit like Roy Keane anyway.

Mind you They play Germany next and they won their game 8-0 againest the Saudis.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 02:45 PM

SHITESHITESHITESHITESHITE !!! Ireland plays in fifty minutes on my TV. I just finished a hard day of work in sweltering (for here, anyway) humidity, went for coooold beer, fired up the barbie, and made the mistake of reading this thread when I should have realized that the time difference means the game was taped and someone might mention the score herein. Well now. I just f***ed up my highlight of the day. Back to work I guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 02:54 PM

You all should be providing running "colour" commentary for this whole thing! I've never had the least bit interest in any of it, never watched it, but you've all made it sound so interesting...I can't wait to read more of your postings!*bg*


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 08:00 PM

"It's nice to be walking away without being beaten," said McCarthy.

I like that - it's such a contrast to the hyped up way everyone is suppose to talk in football management, and most other kinds of management too. It's sane and balanced and cheerful.

And I suspect that was the attitude that got up the nose of Roy Keane.

Anyway, here's the BBC footie site on the subject.

And here's the FIFA one

Best bit so far was the dance the Senegal players did when they scored against France. The scorer took his shirt off, and they all danced around it on the pitch. It could catch on.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Escamillo
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 12:13 AM

McGrath, Ard: I asked my advisor (Andrés Jr., age 19) and he says that there is no Welsh-origin player in the Argentina team. Instead, may be that the Hand of God has been included this time, because it is so absent from the rest of Argentina affairs...

Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 10:06 AM

More joy for the Irish. England lost! Well, the scoresheet said 1-1, but the result effectively ends England's chances in the tournament.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM

How do you work that one out Alanabit?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 02:30 PM

I imagine the logic would be that a team that can't win against Sweden hasn't much chance of getting a draw against Argentina and a win against Nigeria - or the other way round. Which makes sense, but it doesn't work doing calculations like that.

It's the Scots who seem to have a thing about wanting England to lose as such. Most Irish people are pretty easy about that - though of course there can be a tendency to want the team that's playing England to win, not because it's playing England, but rather for its own sake.

So long as Argentina goes through to the next stage I'm hoping England will as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 02:50 PM

Argentina should win comfortably against England because they have more talented players. The reason England are now in such desperate trouble is because once Argentina have six points - as they probably will on Friday evening, they do not need to win against Sweden. They will rest players - giving Sweden a better chance of taking a point off them. England now need to beat Argentina (highly unlikely) because not only do they need the points themselves, but they also need to make sure that Argentina want to beat Sweden. Being an illogical animal, I'm still hoping for a miracle. But that is what it will take.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 03:25 PM

Don`t write any of the teams off, as the brother of a compulsive gambler, I know. It`s the great uncertainy of sport that makes the Bookmaker a rich man. but at this early stage, Argentina looks the classiest side. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 03:51 PM

I'd write off Saudi Arabia, myself...


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 04:23 PM

Bugger it. I'm going to cheer up and hope for the best again. When you think what it must feel like to be a fan of Saudi Arabia... Life ain't that bad really.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 06:43 PM

Watching the Saudis up against the Germans was a bit like seeing hobbits versus trolls, the size difference was so huge. Or a featherweight boxer taking on Mike Tyson. It wasn't that they didn't have some handy football players.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 07:28 PM

Congratulations to Ireland on a magnificent performance. I'm not sure what England were playing at, but I can't believe they can get any worse. And sorry to hear that there are no Welsh-origin players in the Argentinian team (maybe Mark Hughes should organize a scouting trip to Patagonia!) Still, Owen Hargreaves played for the Welsh Youth team...once....in a friendly. Ah well.

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 08:08 PM

......a featherweight boxer taking on Mike Tyson.........
Actually Kevin, I have picked Lewis or someone else if I were saying that....For someone of Mike Tyson's tastes, so to speak, a featherweight boxer would only be an appetizer.

So all you gamblers and odds men out there......After finishing dead last the last time out, where do you figure the USA to come in this time?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 12:32 AM

Right up there with the Englands, Irelands and Saudi Arabias?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Escamillo
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 01:58 AM

At least one reason for Argentina's joy: a reasonably good Bati-debut and a comfortable position for the next Friday against England. If we still have TV next Friday, 37 million people will possibly be celebrating.

Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big Tim
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 03:48 AM

The Saudis weren't that bad, 8-0 wasn't a fair reflection of the skills of the two teams. It was just one of those games when everything went in for one side, and the goalie had a nightmare. Andy Goram would have saved 6 of those! I once played in a game in which we lost 7-1 but were by far the better team!

Very proud of the Irish performance.I think the winner will come from, in order, Italy, Brazil, Germany, France, Argentina.

Where's the next World Cup? I'm definitely going wherever it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 04:28 AM

Next one is in Germany.

I've just got back from a fantastic week-end over in Dublin and watched the Ireland : Cameroon game on Saturday morning. Basic summing up re the Roy Keane episode was aptly put by the Irish Press on the Sunday

"ROY WHO?"

Other highlights of the trip were the following sessions:

Devitt's on the Thursday night
Brazenhead on the Friday night
Grace's in Rathmines on the Saturday night
Mother Redcaps on the Sunday afternoon

The only disappointment musically was the "live session" in Oliver St.John Gogarty's - two guys, one playing pipes the other a fiddle. Both obviously bored out of their skulls, a tune followed by a ten minute break, followed byanother tune followed by a ten minute break, etc, etc. No attempt to make contact with their audience (they actually played with their backs to the audience). They might have just as well being playing at home - no entertainment factor associated with it what so ever. Best comment on the performance was made by one of the company - You've just witnessed the longest wank in history.

Cheers,

Bill.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 06:41 AM

Back to Roy a moment guys - and I know this is going to upset people but I think it's funny..........In Cork yesterday there was a guy selling T-Shirts - On the front was a photograph of Roy Keane and Michael Collins, On the back was the slogan "Both Shot In The Back" !!!! Shows how seriously Cork people are STILL taking this. To paraphrase Martin McGuiness - "He hasn't gone away you know!"

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 07:32 AM

Donal I'm from Cork as well. I was a notts forest supporter and have followed Roy since his days in Cobh. The man is a fantastic footballer. No denying that/ However he is a langer of the highest order and no one casn deny that either. He is a professional footballer. And while he was right to point out inadequecies in the trainging facilites he was wrong to tkae it as far as he did. The facilities seemed to be good enough for everyone else. He let himself down and nore importantly he let his country down. He has NOT apologised to AMick MacCarthy and B The people of Ireland who he was represtning esp those fans who shelled out wads of cash to go and see Ireland and esp keane inthe world cup. In my book Keane is wrong end of story. Having said that I'm more upset at the hurlers performance against Waterford last sunday week

Mj


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 07:33 AM

Well done to my ancestral people, despite the Roy Keane episode - played really well. Unlike England, who looked as if they'd been drinking embalming fluid at half-time...

Pete, with eyes shut and fingers crossed.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 07:48 AM

I'm Irish and live in England and watched both games. England were awesome in the first thirty mins and would have destoyed any taem in the world olaying like they did over the 90. People are writing off Englands chances alraedy but they are in eactly the same position as Ireland. The next team they play will be the strongest in the grouop and the last will be the weakest. Ireland are in a slightly more dodgy position because of the 8 goals Germany have scored. England also have the advantage of playing after sweden and Nig have played therfore knowing what they have to achieve b4 they go into the game. There is a lot of football left to play and to say England is out is without substance.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Red Eye
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 08:01 AM

Dead right guest. England are not dead and buried in any shape of form. Their first 30mins were the best display yetof any team in the world cup and if they can reproduce that for 60 against the argies on fri then they will have come of age. ave age of the England outfield players is 24. Youth is great. england are also carrying into the Fri game memories of the last argie game when they were ridiculed by the argie team after the pen shoot out.

COME ON ENGLAND!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 08:12 AM

Hey Mikey-Joe,

Hard to disagree that Roy can be a langer at times..but I have to admit that I love the man...and over the past week or so I have been trying to figure out exactly why....heres a few reasons...      I love the way he initially impressed Ferguson; with a crunching tackle on England and United hero Bryan Robson in the centre circle of Old Trafford after only a few seconds of a game for Notts Forest.        I love the way he deprives referee David Elleray of satisfaction by starting walking to the tunnel straight away before he routinely sends him off.

I loved the way he took a head butt from Patrick Viera standing and didn't fall to the ground as if he'd been shot.

2-0 away to Juve after 10 minutes and dead and buried. And that glancing header from Roy and suddenly another away goal and United would be through. The moment was not over yet though. Keane got booked after 18 and was out for the final if United got through. Did he cry like Gazza and gallantly lose? Did he fuck! His manager refers to it as a completely selfless display and it was the moment which proved beyond all reasonable doubt that this was one of the greatest players in the world. He bossed Zidane that night but Roy is hardly ever on the World's greatest lists that the brilliant Frenchman frequents.

After United's defeat in the Champions league last year it was Keane who declared changes had to be made. This year his manager talked up his side after defeat but it was Roy who took the defeat worst by saying it "was a disaster" and that "the players let everyone down". Twenty four hours later though and he was rallying his team and trying to motivate they're distant hopes of a Premiership miracle act. A true champion.

I read yesterday that Beckham spends £300 a week on his hair. Read that last sentence again - now tell me - who do YOU want to captain your country in the World Cup ?

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 10:00 AM

In to-days Irish Star the greatest player ever to play for Man Utd George Best has stated that Keane never ever has recognised his presence when he visits Old Trafford. I suppose George is reading this wrong, Keane could be in awe of a greater presence. Ard Mhacha


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 10:11 AM

All I can say is VIVE LE SENEGAL! Whoo woo!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 01:19 PM

To prove a point about those side that were given no chance, our local Bookmaker had Senegal at 17/2 to beat France and Saudi Arabia at 15/2 to beat Germany, are you looking Guest. And apart from the woeful England v Sweden game, the football has been of a high standard, yes, even Germany`s display against the Saudia Arabia.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 04:38 PM

"For someone of Mike Tyson's tastes, so to speak, a featherweight boxer would only be an appetizer."

Precisely.

But with luck it'll be time for indigestion on Weednesday.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 05:03 PM

I hope so Mac!! Boxing has always had reputation problems but Tyson blows the bottom out of the barrel!!! Additionally, he couldn't scrape the gum off Ali's shoes!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 04:27 AM

Let's remember - this is the same Germany that managed to lose 5-1 to a not that exceptional
England side and that gave us one of the worst matches I can ever remember at a major
championships in losing to England at Euro 2000..that couldn't even beat mighty Finland at home.
I can't remember us losing to them since the beginning of the Charlton era. The Irish were visibly
fitter and stronger than a very strong Cameroon team in the last quarter on Saturday.
Can't see us wilting against them in the same way the Saudis did..
As to Keane - saw a headline in The Guardian stating 'Veron Moves Out of Beckham's Shadow'. Usual
shite when it comes to Man U - all the attention to Beckham - the frills merchant and none
to Keane - the lynchpin. Senor Veron will need a long haul flight, I think, to get himself
out of Keane's shadow. That Keane's not playing at this tournament is a tragedy. The FAI are the
pack of clowns responsable. I'd be less harsh with McCarthy - but neither man seems to have been at the
top of the queue when diplomacy was being given out
Go wan the lads tomorrow, anyhow - 'There's only 2 Keanos'


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 04:52 AM

ard mhacha --- maybe Roy Keane knows that he he isn't fit to lace George Best's drinks!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 05:47 AM

Drunk or sober a better person and footballer than the over rated workhorse. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 06:16 AM

Oh right, Donal, we're choosing international captains on the size of their hairdressing bills now are we? Obviously little things like talent, leadership, dignity and the support and respect of your team mates and manager are irrelevant. I admire your loyalty and support for Roy Keane, but if you have to resort to cheap attacks on Beckham's lifestyle to prove it you're weakening your case. Why don't you just admit that you and your Cameroon shirt-wearing mates were hoping that Ireland would get stuffed just to prove your point?
I said in my first post to this thread "I suspect that all the other Irish players will be making a superhuman effort to prove that they can perform without him" and they did -- and I think they can do it again against Germany.

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 06:30 AM

The last time Germany was able to win against Ireland was in 1979. As Paddy Plastique has said, Ireland hasn't lost to Germany in all games since the Charlton era, altogether two games, one in the 80s and one in the 90s.

Looks like a sound basis for a safe bet.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 06:43 AM

Donal everything you have point out proves that Roy Keane is ahard man - hard tackles, not crying ?!?!?!, taking a head butt. I'm am not denying that he is a hard man. However to take Bullforgs attributes for a captain. I think keane certainly has the talent. However when it comes to Ireland he has none of the other attributes. How can he lead the others when they can't stand the sight of him. Anyone who has played team sports can understand that. Dginity and respect not attributes associated with phrases like "you english c**t". What ever happened the the great put downs by the likes of Mohammed Ali. As I said in my original post I've been following the career of Roy Keane since he moved to England. And I definately think he deserved to go.

Mikey joe


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,shanty_steve
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 10:30 AM

For those of you not living in Ireland, its impossible for you to imagine how big the Roy Keane story has been here. It dwarfed the coverage given to the election that had taken place the previous week. It made the front page of quality newspapers for 8 successive days. Radio and TV chat shows discussed nothing else for this period. By comparison, the possibility of a nuclear war between India and Pakistan was a mere footnote. And everyone has an opinion on the matter. I reckon the public are divided roughly 50-50 between blaming Keane and blaming McCarthy/FAI. The debate has quitened down a bit now, because most people feel they should get behind the team while the world cup is on. However, I'd say the debate will start up again as soon as its over.

My own view is that Keane should never have been sent home. What he did is not extraordinary in the footballing world. For example, after their match against Ireland, the Cameroon player Geremi complained bitterly to the press about the way his team have prepared for the event (he mentioned that they had to travel for 7 hours the day before the game). The Cameroon manager hasn't decided to send Gerimi home. Yesterday, the French striker Trezeguet complained that the rest of his team didn't provide him with enough support during their opening match. The French defender Desailly replied through the press today basically saying that Trezeguet himself played very poorly in that opening game. About a week ago in a training game, Sweden's Freddie Ljunberg tried to throttle a team mate. My point is that when you get a large group of people who aren't friends with one another, and force them to spend a month in close contact with one another, occasionally spats will develop. And because of the media today, these are made public, and can quickly get blown out of proportion.

My basic point is that its not Keane's job to be diplomatic. His job is too play football, and he does that very well. McCarthy's job is to manage, which includes a large element of diplomacy. His job is to smooth over any problems the players might have, and make sure that Ireland can field its strongest possible team, with all of the players being as well prepared as possible. McCarthy has failed to do this.

There has been a lot of mis-information in this whole debate. For example, the press have alleged that McCarthy was called 'an English C***' by Keane. However, no-one who was at the meeting in question ever alleged that Keane said this, and Keane has denied it. It is also alleged that the other players are happier without Keane around the place. If that's the case, why did David Connolly approach Niall Quinn on behalf of a number of players, asking him to make an effort to get Keane back. And why did Quinn make that effort, behind the manager's back no less?

Finally to the Keane Vs Beckham debate. Alex Ferguson, the most successful manager in Britain in the last 20 years dropped Beckham for 8 games late last year. Ferguson has never dropped Keane. When Man Utd were struggling last season, Ferguson said that he wished he had 10 Roy Keanes. He's never said that about Beckham. Which is not to say that Beckham is anything other than a great player. And Beckham certainly has attributes to his game which Keane will never have. Its just that when the chips are down, Keane has far more influence over a game than Beckham does. And Keane never has a poor game, which Beckham does.

I should have declared my bias at the start of this posting. I love Roy Keane!

Stephen


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 04:08 PM

Its funny how misinformation seems to thrive around here. I mentioned (way up there in the thread) that Keane calling McCarthy an English whatever never happened. Keane has been painted with the big broad stick and that his treatment in this whole episode was wrong, and handled very badly. Some great points being reiterated about the man, the game in Juventus being the most poignient. One more to add Raul called his coach a pain in the ass publicly the other day and guess what he's still there. Alex Ferguson has also stated that Roy keane is the best player he has ever managed ever. His three best players were in the following order Roy Keane, Bryan Robson and Eric Cantona...no mention of Becks. D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big John
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 09:20 PM

I only started this thread because I wrote a funny song about the "incident". I saw only one other "funny song" in the thread. Now I have been dragged into "political" comment which is not my scene. Can I just point out a few "facts". (1) After the initial row about Sai Pan it was ROY KEANE who decided he was going home. (2) After MICK McCARTHY had already arranged a replacement for ROY, MICK McCARTHY relented and took ROY back on the team. (3) After ROY KEANE had been reinstated HE gave an interview to the IRISH TIMES criticising MICK McCARTHY, but more importantly, branding several of his teammates as COWARDS. When the TEAM became aware of this interview THEY decided they could no longer operate with him. If my "facts" are correct then I can fully understand why he had to go. GO ON THE BOYS IN GREEN!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: The Hiker
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 09:53 PM

Three brief points 1. Roy Keane was in Japan(Saipan)to play football and represent his country,not to wash the dirty linen of the FAI in public.

2.There is no I in team,no single player may set himself as being more important than the team.

3.Playing for his country and keeping faith with the thousands of fans, at home and more especially those who travelled to the far east, was less important to Roy than making an apology however sincere or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Den
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 10:01 PM

No your facts are a little out of order. Keane was critical of the training facilities, the lack of balls (none) with which to train with, no training kit and no physio equipment or special fluids which they were to drink after training. That and the fact the training pitch was like a carpark (hard). He felt it was his responsibility as team Captain that he voice these concerns to McCarthy. Which he did in private in McCarthy's room.

According to Keane when he complained about the pitch McCarthy said he'd heard it was OK. Keane was astounded that noone from the FAI had come out to inspect the training facilites beforehand. Now compare this preparation with England's or any other Nation that takes their presence in the World Cup seriously. England flew directly to Japan. Ireland had I think four stop overs.

Anyway at that point Keane decided he wasn't going to continue and told McCarthy he was going to go back home. He talked to Alex ferguson and his family and was persuaded to stay. So again he spoke to McCarthy and said he had changed his mind and would stay. It was after that that he spoke to the reporter from the Irish Times. I only read an edited version of that interview but never saw any reference to calling his team mates cowards in it (that happened in the interview he did with RTE when he returned to England).

He claimed he told the reporter from the Times all of things that he had discussed with McCarthy. McCarty calls the infamous team meeting, Keane claims that everything was fine until McCarthy questioned his loyalty to the team by feigning injury so as not to have to travel to Iran during the playoffs. Keane said that he felt McCarthy was calling him a liar, at that point he consequently lost his temper and the rest is history as they say.

In the Interview he did with RTE on his return to England he called Niall Quinn, Steve Staunton and Alan Kelly specifically, cowards because after the bust-up with McCarthy they came to his room to wish him well. Right after they had just held a press conference to critisize him and stand up for McCarthy. They claimed later to have the backing of all the players on the team. Not true according to Keane. He said that Jason MacAteer, Ian Harte and a few of the younger players whom he didn't name because they were afraid a backlash came and spoke with him and told him that when Quinn asked a round of applause in support for McCarthy's decision they refrained from clapping.

I have been following very closely this whole thing reading ewvrything I could find, listening to interviews and if I have missed anything or miscommunicated anything then I stand to be corrected. Den


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 02:08 AM

Where does FIFA stand in this:

They decide where the competition is held. As part of that process they inspect the facilities and that should include the the accommodation and training facilities for each team competing. This is after all their major source source of income.

The only grounds for comparison between Keane and Beckham are their attitudes with regard to their jobs as national team captains - everything else can be filed as red herrings.

By his actions Roy Keane has waved two fingers at Ireland, the Ireland Team and their fans. Sir Alex Ferguson has spoon fed this mans ego to the point where I do not believe he could ever operate under any other environment than one in which he is constantly told how wonderful he is. That's the trouble when you come to fervently believe your own publicity.

In my opinion Roy Keane has behaved like a spoilt kid. The captain of a national side also has responsibilities, to his manager, his team, his country and their supporters. After all the arguement his worst move was the maybe I'll rejoin the squad phase - which he allowed to run until it was too late to fly out a replacement.

I hope Ireland have a magnificent World Cup and wish them every success today against Germany. Keane petulantly left hoping that Ireland would fall flat on their faces - THEY DIDN*T.

COME ON THE BOYS IN GREEN!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: mooman
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 04:07 AM

He's gone now and won't be back in a hurry, whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation and a think a lot of what has been said is "spin" in any case.

Whatever I might think about Keane's behaviour is irrelevant and he is certainly a fine player. I think, however, it is a credit to the lads in the face of all this publicity and adversity that they performed so well against a good Cameroon team and were unlucky not to snatch victory at the end when Robbie Keane hit the post.

I hope we can now all unite behind the team, whatever our our views in this matter, for the important game against Germany today and their remaining game(s) in the finals.

Slainte

mooman


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 04:17 AM

I'll second that. GOOD LUCK IRELAND!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 05:42 AM

A couple of points guys.......when (if) Roy called Mick an English C**T the insult was not the C**T part, it was the English part. Roy is back in Cork today to watch the German match on television - I still cannot believe that.

Me ?? I'm sitting here in Jackboots eating fatty sausages thinking of invading Poland ! C'mon der speigels!!!

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 06:53 AM

Too bad Donal, you could have watched the USA beat Portugal!!!!!!

(:<))



Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 07:06 AM

Yeah !!!! Great result USA !!!! Who' s been teaching them soccer??? This *could* mean that is Ireland get through we could be playing USA in the next round...theres a thought.

Shit...I forgot I'm suppposed to be supporting Germany...so crank up the Kraftwerk, fuel up the Panzer, lets Rock & Roll !!!!

Life goes on

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 07:29 AM

Well Donal, it's about to start and both teams should be "up" so I'll be watching here.........Hell, I was up damn near all night anyway!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 08:37 AM

Here in the US, the coverage is on ESPN and it's being done commercial free until the half compliments of the sponsor (all ads are shown either before, after, or at halftime). Watching the Ireland/Germany match right now and it's hard too miss the irony of that because the sponsor is Budweiser!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:24 AM

Germany 1 Ireland 1 (Robbie Keane in injury time)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: IanC
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:33 AM

Donal

A couple of points guys.......when (if) Roy called Mick an English C**T the insult was not the C**T part, it was the English part. Roy is back in Cork today to watch the German match on television - I still cannot believe that.

Thanks
Ian


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:36 AM

R. Keane saves the day. Bring on the Saudis.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big John
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:42 AM

Sorry about that result, Declan. What about Murphy's Law? You and Eamon Dunphy might get your wish when the Saudis beat us 4 - 2. JOKE JOKE JOKE (My nane IS Murphy). Go on the Lily Whites (I'm from Kildare as well so I'm well accustomed to being shafted)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:47 AM

And come on the Cameroons as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:51 AM

Big John,

It was Donal who was talking about shouting for Germany. I'll be shouting for Ireland all the way! Goes to show that Roy (and I agree he's a brilliant player) is not the only one on the Irish team. I hope he learns a lesson out of all this, but I doubt it somehow.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:54 AM

Germany 1 - Ireland 1 !


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 09:55 AM

whoa what a match...theres only 2 R Keanes !!!!

IANC - genuinely no offence meant...In the Irish team they play backs against forwards, old against young - loads of different combinations. Except - they will never play English born versus Irish born - it would indicate the playes were not "completely Irish"...When (if) Roy indicated Mick was not Irish it would have been taken as the ultimate insult...really...

donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:13 AM

I agree with what Donal is saying (in his last message at least). Mick McCarthy speaks with a Barnsley accent because (I assume) his father went to England to find work which was not available in Ireland. Roy Keane's children will speak with Manchester accents for the same reason. They are all Irish if they choose to call themselves that. I know some people who are (imo) lucky enough to be still living here who don't acknowledge that fact.

At one stage early in the Charlton era there were some quite dodgy attempts to find passports for some players grannies (remember Vinnie Jones?). I personally will never question the Irishness of any player (or manager) of obvious Irish descent who opts to play for Ireland, or of any of the many Irish supporters who weren't born or brought up in this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Airto
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:21 AM

IanC,

If Roy Keane did call McCarthy an English so-and-so, it was the most damaging thing he could do for the cohesion of the Irish football squad.

Basically it would have been telling McCarthy he didn't belong in the Irish camp in spite of having two Irish parents and playing more than fifty times for the team. It would have been telling McCarthy that he would never be accepted as a proper Irishman. There are about a dozen players in the Irish squad with a similar background to McCarthy's. What were they to think?

If Keane did make such a remark, and wouldn't withdraw it, he clearly had to go. No question.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Airto
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:25 AM

IanC,

If Roy Keane did call McCarthy an English so-and-so, it was the most damaging thing he could do for the cohesion of the Irish football squad.

Basically it would have been telling McCarthy he didn't belong in the Irish camp in spite of having two Irish parents and playing more than fifty times for the team. There are about a dozen players in the Irish squad with a similar background to McCarthy's. What were they to think?

Spaw, Ireland had a difficult game in Dublin recently against USA but won it. Portugal were in our qualification group and were awesome. I didn't expect your guys to do so well today. Well done.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:27 AM

Or perhaps Cheshire accents for Roy Keane's kids.

Got to agree with those who think Roy fucked up, by the way. Even in Cork, where there seems to be no shortage of people willing to forgive the prodigal son, he must be feeling pretty stupid when he shows his face. McCarthy however seems to be enjoying himself - along with the rest of the lads.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: IanC
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:04 AM

Donal

No offence taken, if none intended.

I'm perhaps still a bit sensitive ... a couple of years ago, I nearly walked away from the Mudcat after a number of racist statements about "The English" which went unchallenged. As far as I recall, the most blatant of these was "We should always remember that The English are The Oppressor". One or two of my English friends quietly stopped coming to The Mudcat at the time, but I didn't ... and after a while the remarks seemed to.

I've been here a lot longer now, and I'm much more inclined to challenge statements like that - even if they're unintentionally insulting, they still give the impression that such things are acceptable.

I'm English, and I see no reason to be ashamed of what I was born (whatever it may have been). If people want to insult me, they can do it for something I can change, like the fact that I prefer cricket to football.

By the way, there are plenty of people I know of [Irish, Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, West Indian ...] descent who I regard as perfectly proper English people. Is there something special about being "Irish"?

;-)
Ian


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM

Well, as I said, there ARE only 2 Keanos... Cameroon were a better side than this German side - media was getting carried away with that Saudi result (although it'll probably get them through in 1st place, sadly). A country that aspires to the semis/final shouldn't be conceding the ball for large parts of the game to little Ireland - Argentina and Italy, to start with, will rip them to pieces. Cameroon might even manage it.

Keane is definitely onto a loser if he's going down that road - Irish football has been all the richer for all the Plastic Paddies down the years - Mancini, Heighway, Lawro, Sheedy, Houghton, Hughton, Aldo, Cas.... one of the precious few rewards for all those waves of emigration. Plus, we are an ENGLISH team, after all - English style of play - has been another of our strengths - even if it's not pretty to watch. The actual English team should try it too, mebbe :->

Great result for the Yanks too - goals scored by 2 fellas that Ireland didn't need the services of too (O'Brien, MacBride). Now, how will Uruguay's O'Neill do tomorrow against the cocks of the walk ???


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:42 AM

Ian C,

There are days when it feels special to be Irish, and this is one of them.

Saying that is not to put down any other nationality. As far as I'm concerned if Mick wants to call himself English thats fine by me two. He can even justifiably call himself both Irish and English, because its true.

Reading other threads it seems that some people are feeling special about being English over the last few days, and thats fine by me too.

Comments made above are in the context of the discussion of Roy's alleged comments to Mick McCarthy and were not meant to imply any superiority of any race/nationality over another.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:52 AM

IanC - y'know its a funny kind of thing...I know lots of guys who emigrated to England and the US in the mid 80's when I left University.......the ones that went to the US picked up the accent and habits in a few months whereas the ones who went to England sound like they never left Ireland 17 years later. I lived in Poole for 5 years and loved it - but if I picked up one hint of an English accent or mannerism I would have been murdered at home (not literally of course)....Anyway - don't think you have to be a history professor to figure out why !!! Hopefully all has changed now...hopefully...

Donal


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: IanC
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:59 AM

Declan

Well said. I concur entirely (proud of being Irish myself this morning, even though I'm not).

;-)
Ian


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:06 PM

The sad thing for the missing Keane is that whatever happens he's the loser, permanently. If Ireland does badly, he's to blame, and if they do well, it's "Who needed him?"

Whereas if Ireland does well, the manager could be a Klingon, and he'd still count as Irish. (And already they've done well enough to count as doing well.)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: The Hiker
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:50 PM

Anyone notice Mick Mc Carthy singing the Irish National Anthem with the same gusto as any who was born on this fair isle. In reply to Den while no one has disputed the accurecy of Roy Keane's complaints regarding facilities equipment etc, Saipan was not the place to complain and Keane overstepped his position when he lost the rag with McCarthy.The overlooked player in all this furore over Keane is the other Corkman Colin Healy who got the call to go to Japan and was then told not to bother coming when the boy Keane changed his mind and decided to stay on.If Keane had the courage of his convictions why did he not stick to his guns and go home when he said he would the reason in my opinion is that he never had any intention of leaving and was looking for attention like the spoiled child he really is and again an apology sincere or not would have been enough to allow the boy Keane to return to Japan.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:07 PM

Apart from all that -- what a cracking game! I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the edge-of-the-seat finale. And I particularly liked the irony of Germany taking off Jancker (possibly the worst player ever to represent them?) while Ireland brought on Niall Quinn to do the same job but better! I thought there were great chunks of the game where the Irish were totally in charge, and but for Kahn's saves and Keane missing the overhead they could have won. So now Ireland can have shooting practice against the Saudis while Cameroon stuff the Germans!
What's the Gaelic for Come on Ireland?

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:21 PM

Anything but "Erin go bragh", Bullfrog (see numerous other discussions of this phrase).

"Éire abú" is probably the appropriate expression, though I've never heard it used, probably due to declining standards in teaching the language, says this old fogey.

There's also "Scaoil amach na bobailíní" which can be bowdler-translated as "let it rip".


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM

"So now Ireland can have shooting practice against the Saudis "

That's dangerous thinking. Ireland's strength has always been playing teams which are expected to thrash them. They won't have that when they play Saudi Arabia.

And the chances are, whichever team does least well against Saudi Arabia is headed home next week. (Though if the Cameroons were to beat Germany that should mean Germany is headed for home, in spite of that 8:0 victory)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM

Jancker is worth a special comment. He has played in 17 games (mostly only part time) in the last season for Munich and he hasn't scored a single goal. Has anybody ever heard of a forward striker who has failed to score even once (no injury excuse) during a whole year and being selected nevertheless to represent his country at a world championship? The best German scorer of last season (18 goals) sits at home.

There are some not very nice jokes about Jancker over here like that his only resl task is to make the other team laugh so hard that they forget that not all German players are unable to kick a ball.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM

Nice one Wolfgang. I'm with McGrath on this one. I think it would be very wrong to underestimate the Saudis but having said that I don't think that, that is the Irish way of approaching a game 'cause we're always usually the underdog. Very interesting and insiteful editorial here


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 02:33 PM

Interesting enough - a different bunch of cliches.

I can't see how being embarassed about a culture's differences is any great advance on being proud of its differences. And I think that if you are facing desperate odds it's a lot better to admit that and get on with the job, rather than pretending the odds are in your favour. False optimism is a treacherous friend.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:17 AM

Point taken, McG, but the group could hinge on the number of goals scored against the Saudis. Mind you, the Irish seem to be best coming back from a goal down!
As for Carsten Jancker, I think he's well on the way to rhyming slang status.
Just saw a bit of the Denmark v Senegal game. Watch the highlights later for the best (team) goal in the tournament so far.

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 05:43 AM

I cannot see the games, only online-read them in the PC. Not as much fun as TV. I expect to be able to see the final but I'm fairly sure that I won't see one of yesterday's contrahents in that game. It is for both above their average abilities.

Right now, I 'read' the Cameroun-SaudiA. game and hope for a goal. It is best for us if that game has a winner (preference: SA, second preference: high victory for Ca). If I read the Irish preferences correctly they should prefer them to draw.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 05:44 AM

Just dropped in from watching the game between Cameroons and the Saudis - and the Saudis are a lot better this time. And if they can get away without a hammering today they'll probably be better again when the meet the Irish. Not a walkover, I anticipate.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:32 AM

According to Mick McCarthy, the Irish team celebrations went on into the early hours of the morning and included "a singsong with guitars and squeezeboxes". Any suggestions as to what they might have been singing? I bet The Fields of Athenry was in there at least once!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:39 AM

"Joxer goes to Stuttgart" would have been a good choice too. But why did they celebrate already? They should have a little bit more ambition than not to loose against Germany (which by the way is now ranked at 11th place in the world by FIFA while Ireland is ranked 15th with nearly as much points as Germany).

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:53 AM

Now....Imaginr the result if Roy Keanr had been playing.....*Donal ducks for cover*....

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 07:05 AM

I agree with McGrath that next Tuesday's match is not a foregone conclusion. The Saudis were unlucky not to score today. They will be playing for nothing but pride next Tuesday - although sometimes pride is a big motivator.

But a win by two goals and we're through regardless of the other result. And if we play to our best we're surely capable of that.

And given all that's gone on for the past few weeks, as the man said - if the lads want to celebrate and have a laugh and a drink, I have no problem with that.

They played a bit of the sing song on RTE radio this morning. They were singing "Stand by Me" - a bit of irony there maybe?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 07:16 AM

I don't claim to know much about football, but as an expat from the late 1980s on I got caught up in the whole social phenomenon of the Charlton era. And I do believe that the successes of that era did contribute something to that nebulous pheonomenon, national confidence;

I came across the following in an interview dated 19 May on the Guardian unlimited site referred to above:

Aside from the old codgers at the front and back of the team, the most obvious unifying factor, according to Quinn, is powerful camaraderie: 'Mick changed the way we played but never changed that great feeling of team spirit and togetherness. It has probably been the ingredient that has helped most in getting the Irish people behind the team. They can see that regardless of whether it's Roy Keane at Manchester United or Mattie Holland at Ipswich nobody is bigger than anyone else in this squad'.

Quinner did go on to refer to Keane as 'colossal to the cause at all times', so there's no begrudgery there. But it does strike me that the team spirit and the close relationship with the fans were essential elements in the success story, and that these seem to be lacking in Keane, so far as one can judge from press reports.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM

It will be interesting to hear/see the next two games in parallel. Each of the three leading teams can go through to the last sixteen without having to wait for the other result:
Germany (with a draw)
Cameroun (with a win, whatever result)
Ireland (with a two goal win).
For Germany and Cameroun, even a loss could be good enough,
for Ireland, everything but a win is not enough.

The interesting situation for Cameroun and Germany is that in the case the Irish don't win, it doesn't matter whether they lose or draw. So they both (all three, acutally) have to play for victory. Germany by now knows that a last minute goal can quickly turn the tide.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 08:35 AM

Wolfgang, even a German team as (comparatively) poor as this one is perceived as dangerous opposition. They're not a total bunch of Janckers --- Klose, Ballack and Kahn are all top quality players, and it only needs the others to raise their game a little for Germany to go a lot further. Realistically, the Irish were celebrating the fact that they avoided a defeat which was only seconds away --- that leads to a powerful rush of emotion!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:07 AM

Only 5 more days and we may be able to continue this thread on "Round Two".


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:14 AM

Yeah, Wolfgang - the expansion of the WC to 32 teams in 98 - meaning that only 2 qualify from each group - has actually led to more teams playing for wins all round. Goals per game seems to be well up on the most dour WC I can remember - 90. Someone needs to tell Uruguay though..
Back to the original Keanegate, though, here's something some wag in Ireland has put together on his Photoshop - might raise a few laughs: The Great Organisers


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:20 AM

Sorry can't seem to get anything on that clicky Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:47 AM

And if Cameroons win and Ireland win, they are the only teams going through. All good fun.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 01:46 PM

A two goal win for Ireland is a tall order. The Irish team are great battlers but goalscoring is a scarce commodity with this side. Saudia Arabia will take heart from a valiant effort to-day, and Ireland will need a lot of luck to advance. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Escamillo
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 09:59 PM

9 hours for the match England-Argentina, and our country is already semi-paralyzed. At 8:30 AM local time, planes will stop in the air, the tango dancers will freeze (at that time in the morning they are usually frozen), and vampiroid programmers like me will have already slept at night. And possibly, for one day, nobody will talk about the Reverse Bank Robbery.

Let the most best be the winner, as our illustrated fans would say in English.

Un abrazo - Andrés (from Buenos Aires)


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:11 AM

A one goal win will put Ireland through, as long as Germany-Cameroon is not a draw.
A two goal win for Ireland makes the next round certain, irrespective of the outcome of the other match.
If Germany-Cameroon is drawn, a one goal win by Ireland will reduce the competeition to a lottery!


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST,Fred
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM

Escamillo,

I think that you mean 'illustrious' instead of 'illustrated'

I wish I could say 'may the best team win' but that would be you!

So I have to say 'may England win' though I very much doubt it

Fred


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:28 AM

Sweden 2, Nigeria 1. Both Swedish goals by Henrik Larsson of (Glasgow) Celtic. Happy, hoopy, heroic, Henrik! (Pity he didn't get a third,I'd love to have been able to use "hat trick" as well!) Commiserations to Nigeria, they played bravely and at times brilliantly and were worth a draw.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:44 AM

Nigel.. It would never end up as a lottery. The rules for sorting out teams with equal points are :

1) Goal Difference 2) Number of Goals 3) Number of Red Cards 4) Number of Yellow Cards 5) Number of people sent home unfairly for disagreeing with their manager.

(actually I was lying about no.5 - just cant seem to post anything without a reference to the Boy Roy)

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 06:50 AM

Donal,

That's wrong. Cards don't come into it. After various permutations concerning goals, it's straight into drawing lots


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:04 AM

To quote from the ofFicial World Cup site Ireland's Hopes
McCarthy's dream result would be for either Cameroon to beat Germany or vice versa.
However a 0-0 draw would see both climb to five points and should Ireland only get a 1-0 win then they would face off against the Africans in a drawing of lots to see who progresses.
They would both have scored the same amount of goals, have the same goal difference and drawn their head to head match.
It would be the most painful World Cup exit since the Dutch went out on penalties to Brazil in the 1998 semi-finals and England to Argentina the same year.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:07 AM

Yup Guest...looks like youre right - went to the FIFA page and found this.....

- In the first round, the teams finishing first and second in each group qualify for the second round. Ranking in each group shall be determined as follows: a) Greater number of points obtained in all the group matches b) Goal difference in all the group matches c) Greater number of goals scored in all the group matches

- If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above 3 criteria, their place shall be determined as follows: d) Greater number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned e) Goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned f) Greater number of goals scored in the group matches between the teams concerned g) Drawing of lots by the Organising Committee for the FIFA World Cup™

Hmmmmm.........no mention of Roy !!!

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Declan
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:18 AM

Ireland need to win by (at least) two clear goals to be sure (to be sure).

A high scoring draw in the Germany Cameroon match would see us going out on a 1-0 scoreline because we would only have 3 goals for. (at least I think thats what (c) above means.

But most importantly we have to beat the Saudis - anything less and we're out.

Next match (if we qualify) will be against Spain who looked pretty awesome in their first two games. They may be a bit suspect at the back, but then again who are we to talk !


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 08:06 AM

Speaking about lotteries in football world cups preliminary rounds and Ireland it should be mentioned that Ireland has already been lucky once winning second place (instead of third place) with the lot deciding against the Netherlands (they must have an Ireland complex by now). Ireland then played Rumania and went on to the quarter finals, the Netherlands played and lost against later champion Germany. I'm speaking about 1990 by the way.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 10:02 AM

Larrson in great form for Sweden who ran out deserved winners, and England had courage, a trait sadly lacking in a poor Argentine team. The TV pundits are having to eat their words in this World Cup, surprises galore in a great competition. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM

Surprises galore are to be expected in a championship with lots of teams having comparable strength. I've read it today in my newspaper about Germany, but it could have been said about the majority of the teams at the world cup:

"Middle class (among the last 32, of course, is meant). Good enough to beat most of the other teams on one day, bad enough to lose to most of them on the other. Only against the best couple of the teams or against the worst couple of the teams a positive or, respectively, a negative outcome would be a real surprise."

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: donal
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 12:07 PM

jeeez..Wolfgang.....u got my head spinning there man!

D


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 05:36 PM

This is one of the less impressive German sides which I have seen over the years. It's not bad, but it does not look like a heavyweight contender for the World Cup. However, it is rated above England - and because of that -got put in what FIFA considered a more "appropriate" group. Now that England have had a good result against Argentina and - I think - narrowly avoided defeat in München last September - I wonder what the next lot of rankings will show. Mind you, I think I have to go back over fifteen years to recall an England win against Ireland. It was some time ago, wasn't it? Are Ireland above us too?


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 12:20 PM

Consider sometimes when referring to the Irish team the the population of R O Ireland around the 5 million mark, dear old England and Germany have well over 10 times more people. Also the the bulk of the players are from Dublin, with Cork also supplying the odd player [that is when the odd player decides to play]. And taking a leaf from Englands book we throw in the odd exile. Please don`t ask me to elaborate, I have a long memory of England in all sports playing all and sundry, how about a Russian Prince Oblensky scoring a try against Scotland at Twickenham, and so on. So the oul Irish Granny rule is no harm. So taken all this into account, dont the Irish do well. Ard Mhacha


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 01:35 PM

They do very well indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 02:54 PM

The crucial thing isn't so much the population of the country, or even the number of people who play football. Otherwise the USA wouldn't count as underdogs. It's whether there are enough people playing football regularly in top level teams against other top level teams.

That's where Irish footballers win out and the Americans don't as yet.

Maybe someone start a part II of this thread, since Ireland's still very much in the competition.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 05:13 PM

Wrong McGrath, the Irish team have shown consistency over the last ten years and in no way can you state that population dosen`t matter. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: World Cup(Soccer) Irelands nightmare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 02 - 07:27 PM

I've started that part 2 yet BS: Irelands World Cup Part 2


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