Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4

Subject: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 01:59 AM

My roommate was just watching the Queen's 50th concert from Buckingham Palace and we were both surprised and intrigued to hear a choral rendition of Edward Elgar's Pomp & Circumstance march #4, which both of us had thought was strictly an instrumental piece. Anybody know what the words are, whether they're accessible, who wrote them, whether a vocal version is on the market, etc.? My initial attempt at a Google search didn't turn up any vocal version for the work.

Liland

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 02:21 AM

Posted and discussed in previous threads:

Land of Hope and Glory

Land of Hope and Glory

Lyr Req: Land of Hope and Glory

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 02:32 AM

My mistake. "Land of Hope and Glory" is Elger's march no.1.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 02:41 AM

Thanks, Masato. It actually looks familiar now that I see the words (I couldn't hear them clearly on the TV broadcast); but the program notes here say "#4" while the website Brendy linked to says "#1". Hmm. Oh well...

Liland
Not British

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 02:42 AM

Aha! So I reiterate my query: are there words to #4, and if so what are they?

Liland

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 03:19 PM

I don't know about numbers, but I'm pretty sure that the "Pomp and Circumstance" that Brits sing "Land of Hope and Glory" to is the same tune that is usually played (without words) as a processional at American high-school and college graduation ceremonies. So while the tune is familiar to most Americans, I'd bet most of them don't know there are any words associated with it.

Which leads to the question, what do Brits play at graduation ceremonies? Do Brits even HAVE graduation ceremonies?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 04:30 PM

Here's a clip of a suitably pompous and circumstantial version of Land of Hope and Glory at CDNOW. (See cut #19.)

See if this works for you: A Pomp and Circumstance [March No. 1] midi file. Be patient; you have to get about halfway into it before the familiar theme appears.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Burke
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 05:37 PM

Still searching, but poke around this Elgar site.

"During the Second World War, A P Herbert provided patriotic verses beginning "All Men Shall be Free..." for the trio section of that [4th] march. "

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Haruo
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 10:23 PM

Having reviewed both pieces in some detail, it appears highly likely that what they were singing was "Land of Hope and Glory" to March #1, and that it was simply an error in the program notes we were looking at that in a couple of places said #4... Thanks all of you!

Liland

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: wes.w
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 10:36 AM

Jim Dixon wrote:
>Which leads to the question, what do Brits play at >graduation ceremonies?
Nothing.

>Do Brits even HAVE graduation ceremonies?
Yes, but only on reaching degree level or higher (hence undergraduate (UK) = person studying for a degree). Over on your side of the water, 'graduation' starts at an lower educational level. So an American 'high school graduate' I knew over here was 4 years full time education away from being a UK 'graduate'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:26 AM

We Americans do use the term "undergrad" to mean someone who is working toward a bachelor's degree, as opposed to a "grad student" who already has a BA and is working on a master's degree or doctorate. But those terms are heard only at institutions that have both. Otherwise they'd just be called "students."

And I THINK it used to be a rule that an institution was called a "college" if it offered only a BA and a "university" if it offered higher degrees. But that distinction has become blurred in recent years. Many institutions have upgraded themselves from "technical colleges" [which used to offer only 2-year "associate" degrees] to "colleges" and from "colleges" to "universities." I have no idea how they justify this, or if they bother to justify it at all.

Maybe this looks like thread creep, but it is about "pomp and circumstance" after all!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:11 PM

Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free
How can we extoll thee? who was born of thee.
Wider still and wider may thy bounds be set
God who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet
God who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.
If that is the one you are after. At least that's what I sing. JohnB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: masato sakurai
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:12 AM

I missed Prom at the Palace broadcast on TV, but was able to watch the 2-hour concert via BBC Music Live (Click here). Please note that it is available until 8 June. The programme says correctly the music is "Elgar: Pomp & Circumstance No. 1" (played just before "God Save the Queen" at the end).

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 10:25 AM

Guest JohnB:
"How can we extoll thee? who are born of thee."
correction for 3rd person plural!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 11:41 AM

There MUST be parodies of this. Anyone know one?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Burke
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 05:52 PM

LAND OF HOPELESS TORIES In one of the threads listed above.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:56 PM

I went to a very splendid graduation ceremony in Oxford a couple of years ago (OK I'm boasting about my clever daughter) and I can report that there were a lot of people in funny hats, and bowing, and stuff in Latin, but no music.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 09:37 PM

How odd it seems to have an important ceremony without music!

My own alma mater, Macalester College, always used a pipe band. There's nothing quite like a pipe band for impressing everyone with the seriousness of the occasion.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 11:41 PM

Then there's the off center recording by Adrian Kimberly, Calliope 6501, 1961. It's a waaay upbeat version with near chipmunk sounding lyrics ~~ No more pencils, no more books, no more teacher's dirty looks, da da DA da DA Wheeeee! (rough translation of the untranslatable)

Many years later, I found that Adrian Kimberly was a pseudonym for Don Everly.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Haruo
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 11:55 PM

chipmunk = high-pitched stripe-tailed ground squirrel, for the North-American-fauna-challenged

speaking of which (and of Macalester) do schools outside the contiguous 48 have songs called "alma maters" (as distinct from "fight songs")? Also, how do you pronounce "alma mater" (in either the sense of the school or the sense of the school song, what we call kouka in Japanese)? (In my neck of the primeval American woods, it rhymes fairly well with "calmer water", give or take a postvocalic R, but I can readily imagine HM the Queen may have subject or dominionees or what have you for whom "alma" sounds like the feminine of "Alamo" and "mater" rhymes with "gator" (if they've heard of gators in the Commonwealth).

Liland

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 05:43 PM

May I just point out that it has been said that Elgar was horrified at the addition of words to his Pomp and Circumstance!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Haruo
Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:11 PM

The Anacreontic Society doubtless felt the same way. ;-)

Liland

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From:
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:39 PM

It is well-known that Elgar was horrified at these jingoistic words
being set to his music. It has now become a Tory party song! Worse!!
But I want to create a parody of it, and I can't find the words set
to the music. Reading the words only (I can't find them as set to the
music) I think verse 1:-

   1 Dear land of hope....thine empire shall be strong

   and verse 3 :-

   3 Thy fame is ancient as the days....still serves a hero son

must be to different music to verse 2:-

    2 Land of hope and glory...make thee mightier yet.

This is the melody everybody knows well, is it a chorus? I don't see
how the melody for this can fit the other 2 verses. So what music
goes with them?

Michael Bell

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,Lindsay
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:56 AM

In Primary School we used to sing this parody

Land of soap and water
Mother's washing her feet
Father's cutting his toe nails
The children for to eat....

sorry I don't remmeber any more

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From:
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,penny
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:52 AM

Does anyone know the words of the parody of Land of hope and Glory which begins
"land of soap and water, Mother wash my feet"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,John E
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 01:18 AM

I remember my father used to sing with a very straight face and hand on heart ....
"Land of soap and water,
Mother wash my feet,
Father is cutting his toe nails,
Ready for the children to eat ...."

and oh! wish I likewise could remember the rest .. so funny!
John E

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,John V Bristol UK
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 06:32 PM

My sister used to sing this to me as a small boy.

Land of soap and water,
Mother wash my feet.
For they are so dirty,
And they smell so sweet.

When I take my socks off,
They stand up on end,
and if you could smell them,
They'd drive you round the bend.

That's gotta be all of sixty years ago, so I'm going for a lay down now cos my brain cell is in pain

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 06:20 AM

My mother had a different version:

Land of soap and water
Mother washed my feet
Father cut my toenails
While I was asleep.

Whiter still and whiter....

Wish I could remember the rest!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: BobL
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 07:14 AM

Most of the posts here refer to Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance March No.1". The OP asked about the words to No.4, which, together with some background info, may be found here. Sorry the answer's so late. Incidentally the words are still copyright as author A.P.Herbert died in 1971.

"It has been said that Elgar was horrified at the addition of words to his Pomp and Circumstance".
Said it may have been, true it ain't. But then Wiki, that fount of information (if not necessarily knowledge), wasn't around in '02 to check.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 05:57 PM

again just a snippet from camp in the mid 50's-
LLoyd George knew my father
Father knew LLoyd George.....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 07:27 PM

We used to sing that to the tune of " Onward Christian Soldiers" - not "Land of Hope and Glory", ripov.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance Parody
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 20 - 08:13 PM

Land of soap and water
Mother's shelling the peas.
Father's reading the paper,
Sister's looking for fleas.
Brother's reading the Hotspur.
Grandma's having a sleep.
Grandpa's picking his toenails,
What a happpy fam'ly.

I'm 75 (2020) and I can remember my brother, who is 10 years older than me, singing this when I was a child, may 7 or 8 years old.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 19 May 20 - 03:36 AM

Which classical tune has lyrics starting, "I vow to thee my country"?

I also recall the group Renaissance putting lyrics to some classical piece.

As to "Land of soap and water", it seems to me that a Coronovirus version is in there somewhere!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 May 20 - 04:36 AM

On the 4th June,,, Haruo does say that he thinks the programme notes were wrong.

But just in case it was #4 there are some notes on the Elgar page Burke linked to :

Pomp & Circumstance March No. 4 in G ,,,

Attempts have been made to fit words to this melody à la Land of Hope and Glory.
The first was made by Alice Elgar in 1910, who called her new song The King’s Way after the road which was opened in London in 1909.
In 1928, that was replaced by Alfred Noyes’s Song of Victory and a later attempt was made
in 1940 during the Second World War, when the author A.P. Herbert (1890-1971) provided his Song of Liberty. He wrote two verses for the song, each followed by a refrain from which the song gets its title:

All men must be free,
March for liberty with me.
Brutes and braggarts may
Have their little sway –
We shall never bend the knee ...

But, years before, Elgar had revised his view of the patriotic “bards … (who) … step in front of an army and inspire the people with a song.” When Boosey sent him in 1928 Noyes’s words to be fitted to the central tune of No. 4, he wrote: “I think the pronounced praise of England is not quite so popular as it was; the loyalty remains, but the people seem to be more shy as to singing about it.”

The King’s Way by Alice Elgar

The newest street in London town,
The Kingsway, the Kingsway!
The newest street in London town,
Who’ll pace it up and pace it down?
The brave, the strong, who strive and try,
And think and work, who fight and die
To make their England’s royal way
The King’s Way, the King’s Way!

The noblest street in London town,
The Kingsway, the Kingsway!
The noblest street in London town,
The stir of life beats up and down;
In serried ranks the sabres shine,
And Art and Craft and Thought divine,
All crowd and fill the great highway,
The Kingsway, the Kingsway!

On dreary roads in London town
The sick and poor sink sadly down in gloom:
But grace and pity meet
When King and Queen stretch hands and greet
The weary ones;
This, they say,
Our King’s way, and our Queen’s way.

There is a path across the deep, -
The King’s Way, the King’s Way!
There’s a path across the deep, -
A path the Island ships shall keep;
A way by which to those we win,
Whose hands we clasp, whose hearts are kin,
England’s sons across the sea;
They too will fight to keep it free:

Let ev’ry voice in England say, -
”God keep the way by night and day,
The King of England’s Way!”
The King’s Way, the King’s Way!

http://www.elgar.org/3pomp.htm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Joe G
Date: 19 May 20 - 05:18 AM

Lynn - I Vow to Thee My Country is set to Holst's Jupiter from the Planets - one of my favourite tunes

Renaissance did a version of Scheherazade which has elements of Timely Korsakov's work in it. I love both!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 20 May 20 - 03:15 AM

Joe G - I know about Scheherezade and Renaissance - I've got the LP. (as an aside - how to count 5/4? Easy : Rim-Ski-Kor-Sa-Kov!

The classical piece I was alluding to with Renaissance was, I think, part of Elgar's Enigma Variations. It's all so long ago.................

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,Sue Millard
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 05:08 PM

//Lynn - I Vow to Thee My Country is set to Holst's Jupiter from the Planets - one of my favourite tunes//

Hands up if you know the link of this to Morris dancing!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Joe G
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 06:16 PM

Not off the top of my head but I feel I should!

Was the tune's name Thaxtead or am I getting confused with another?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 01:43 AM

Thaxted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 04:51 AM

At least one UK uni has a 'congregation' rather than a ceremony.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 06:48 AM

‘Song of Liberty’, AP Herbert (1940)

Tune - P&C4 (Elgar)

Verse 1

Fight for freedom, ev`ryone.
Build the ship and man the gun.
Do as you have never done
To set the peoples free.
We, the few, the happy free,
Will fly the flags of Liberty,
Blow the horns of Liberty! Liberty!
Till the world is free.

Chorus 1

All men must be free.
March for Liberty with me.
Brutes and braggarts may
Have their little day,
We shall never bow the knee.
God is drawing his sword.
We are marching with the Lord.
Sing, then, brother, sing,
Giving ev`rything,
All you are and hope to be,
To set the peoples free.

Verse 2

Wake and watch and work and win,
Fight and farm and sew and spin,
Fall the faithful people in
To set the peoples free.
But the day the battle`s won,
Never say the fight is done.
Make the world a better one! Better one!
When the world is free.

Chorus 2

All men must be free.
March for Liberty with me.
Brutes and braggarts may
Have their little day,
We shall never bow the knee.
God is drawing his sword.
We are marching with the Lord.
Sing, then, brother, sing,
Giving ev`rything,
All you are and hope to be,
To take the torch across the sea
And set the peoples,
Keep the peoples free.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,Philip Wainwright
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:09 AM

Thanks Peter for Herbert's text. I don't quite see how it fits Elgar's music, though--was it ever published as sheet music? I haven't been able to find anything about it via Google

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST,Philip Wainwright
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:27 AM

Bob L's post above says the words to No.4 'may be found here', but the link took me to the Diocese of Norwich's website, on which searches for 'A. P. Herbert' and 'March No. 4' yielded no useful results. I'm actually looking for the sheet music rather than the text, which Peter the Squeezer has posted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomp & Circumstance No. 4
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 07:56 AM

We used to sing the AP Herbert version in school