Left Hand Problem

Subject: Left Hand Problem
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 06:51 PM

My left hand has been getting steadily worse, middle and ring finger locking in cocked position, loss of strength and mobility, so stretch and tight chords getting harder, even simple ones like G7 and D. And now I can feel bumps on the palm of my hand.

Finally gathered $$ and courage together and went to an orthopedic surgeon for a cortisone shot. But his take was that the palm area is a chancy one, and even with proper placement, cortisone injection runs the risk of blowing a tendon (eek). Especially as this is a chronic condition he suggested instead surgery, which, typically, involves splitting the "ring" the tendon slides through. But even with "successful" surgery, he could not guarantee I would still be able to play guitar, just do "normal" things.

I asked if there was anything I could do to increase strength and range of motion but at least from an allopathic viewpoint, there is nothing, aside from "not using it." Which isn't much help, especially as I'm left-handed in everything but guitar playing.

I am very reluctant to have surgery (and can't afford it anyway, but will be 65 in 6 months, at which time Medicare (US) would be a big help)...would much rather approach this in a less invasive way, but so far it continues to get worse.

If anybody else has had experience with this sort of thing I would be grateful for advice or just hearing about how you dealt with it.

Thanks for any input...

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 07:13 PM

Mudlark, i dont know what you do musically so i dont know if what i say will have any possible relevance at all. But i feel the odd left hand problem creeping in (right hand too, come to think of it).basically, I dont play as well as i used you, and its a fact of life that direction is unlikely to reverse itself. What I've found myself doing is trying to remember the good songs i used to do that work without a guitar, and singing them in social contexts, and lo and behold, people are starting asking for them.doc watson or robert johnson i aint going to be again but then i never was. I hope there is a simple medical solution to your problem...but ifthere isnt...there's still a lot of fun to be had out of music.Good luck

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 07:35 PM

Hey Mudlark,

The left hand is an area I know some of. I'd skip the cortizone and the surgery for now. I'd find a real inventive and caring Physical Therapist. Excersizes for range of motion may give you some relief from pain and keep you at the current level of ability.

Next I'd look at a different way to play the same thing further up the neck. A capo is a wonderous thing. The key of "C" has two chords that require a long reach. It will pay to learn a few inversions. Or as I do, play partial chords or modal chords that can be confused as either major or minor.

I strongly support the Autoharp as a therapy aid. It works a full range of motion, reach, compression, extension..... . Also consider a tenor guitar.

Look at playing the guitar turned over, ala Bill Staines. And look into the life of Byron Janus.

I hope I've offered some help. I can tell you that it is possible to play with a damaged hand.

Don

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 08:21 AM

I am refreshing this thread because I think the issue is very important. Not just to Mudlark but to all of us who are active musicians performing into middleage and beyond.

Any trick we have developed to help with hand pain or disability will be of interest to Mudlark and may help others.

Don

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Pied Piper
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 08:41 AM

Absolutely Don. This is a very important consideration for every one. I play Pipes and have occasional twinges in my right pinky. These are happening more often as I get older. What musicians need to know is how to minimise the risk, and how to deal with problems when they occur. I did a search a while back for stuff related to this topic and there's a lot out there, but its very bity. If any one knows a good site about this please do the blue clicky thing. All the best PP.

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From:
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:03 AM

I'm not a physical therapist, physician, or other health care professional. What follows is not advice, but simply what worked for me. I ride horseback (closed fist, lots of arm/wrist strength), work on computers (lots of manual dexterity in a fixed hand/arm position), and play guitar, recorder, pennywhistle and flute (manual dexterity, strength, and arm movement). I'm left-handed, and was starting to experience hand/arm stiffness and discomfort when I started doing all this about a year ago.

Every day, twice a day, I do a full set of range-of-motion stretches for both arms and hands. Do them slowly and gently, do not "bounce" on the stretch, and only hold each stretch for about 2-4 seconds.

I adapted these stretches from: some I do on horseback to keep me loose, some I learned in a 6-week beginners' aikido course, and some I picked up from a webpage on how to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. I find if I miss a day, my hands are VERY stiff and curled when I wake in the morning. No pain, but not much range-of-motion either.

1) With arm and fingers fully extended, grasp hand of extended arm at the "fist" knuckles, and gently flex the back of the hand and fingers back toward the forearm. Hold steady for 2-4 seconds, and gently relax. Repeat 4 times. Switch arms and repeat.

2) With arm fully extended, make a fist. Grasp the fist and gently, keeping the fist closed, gently flex the fist forward toward the wrist. Hold steady for 2-4 seconds, and gently relax. Repeat 4 times. Switch arms and repeat.

3) Standing straight and comfortably relaxed, take a dish/hand towel in one hand, and drape it over the shoulder of that arm. Reach behind you with the other hand, and grasp the other end of the towel. Gently pull up on the towel. Hold for 2-4 seconds, and gently relax. Repeat 4 times. Switch arms and repeat.

4) With arms straight out in front of you, palms down, extend your fingers. Curl your fingers into "claws" at the second joint, while holding hands flat. Curl fingers into fists. Hold each position about 2 seconds, then go to next position. Repeat 4 times.

5) Slowly, alternating each arm, make an underhanded circle from the shoulder of each arm. (as if you're pitching a softball, but continue up and around). Repeat 4 times.

The whole rigamarole takes me about 3 minutes in the bathroom every morning and night.

Just my $0.02, FWIW. Your mileage may vary.

V

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From:
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:10 AM

Vixen, sounds great.

I am not a musician, nor am I a physician.

A number of years ago, (about 40), I identified a recurring problem, which was one of the forms of tendonitis/carpal tunnel injury.

What I my doctor did was to put a HARD plastic brace around my wrist so I couldn't move it in the direction which would cause the problem. After about 6 months of this, the problem went away. I assume the swelling of the muscle in the sheath had subsided. I try not to do the same thing again, but it may return. However, it is something to look at. This happened on my right hand, and as I am not sinister, I was worried the brace would interfere with normal work- Keyboarding, pen holding, etc.

If the doctor knows what range of movement you need, he can accomodate that when forming the brace.

Check with the specific doctor, rhynoplasty, I believe. (Otherwise known as Plastic Surgeons)

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM

George,

Actually, in New York State anyway, an OT or PT with training in splinting can produce the type of brace you are describing.

CTS has become so common that a number of different braces to neutralize the wrist are available at pharmacies and even discount stores like Wal-Mart.

Before anyone decides to self treat they should get an evaluation of the need done first.

Vixen's range of motion excersizes for warming up are a great idea. I do something similar to help keep the scar tissue in my left hand pliable.

Don

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: GUEST,Slickerbill
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:43 PM

Not CTS, mind you, but had a bad experience a couple of years ago now. Slipped on ice and shattered my left radius. (The x-ray guy goes "Uh oh", and you know you got a problem.) So we're talking surgery big time. Sliced me from the middle of my palm and up my wrist about 4 inches. Put in a pin and a plate. Scary.

I could't do a thing for about a week but stretch, which hurt like hell (No cast due to all the hardware in my wrist). But one week after the accident I picked up my guitar and was messin with bar chords, albeit for a pretty limited time. Lots of physiotherapy later and I've got full use back, LordbePraised.

I think the advice from the folks above is along the lines of what I've heard from those with CTS; exercises, but also REST. You're not gonna make it better by overworking it. gentle exercise and rest is it. But if you NEED surgery, it'll probably be okay as long as you do the physio afterward. And by the way, the therapist was impressed with my progress and put it down to playing. So best of luck. SB

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From:
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 03:02 PM

Indeed--resting the affected body parts is essential. Also, I've found Ibuprofen very helpful when things get too stiff to be comfortable.

And definitely get a professional opinion. Anything that doesn't pass off in a couple of days is worth having an expert look at. My doctor's opinion was that I was just getting older (he's right about that--I still am!!!) and losing my flexibility. "Use it or lose it," he said, and so, within reason, that's just what I've been doing. My dad's still water-skiing (slalom, no less) and he'll be 74 next Sunday, so I'm hopeful about the prognosis.

V

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 04:03 PM

It occurred to me that, if you are left handed in everything but playing the guitar, you could maybe experiment with playing the guitar the left handed way, which would mean you'd be using your right hand to hold down the chords and so forth.

And the other thing would be trying playing with open tunings.

That's over and above getting advice from someone who really knows about musician's injuries, who'd very likely be a physiotherapist or something like that rather than a doctor as such.

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Mudlark
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 04:23 PM

Thanks, guys, for all the input. Vixen, I have copied exercises and will try that (and not "bouncing" which I am prone to do...if a little is good, a lot is better syndrome). Slickerbill, veery glad to hear that you could eventually play after such scary surgery. Surgeon suggested I not hold anything tightly w/that hand, i.e., minimize pressure along the top of palm, so I am becoming more aware of how I use my hands. And I'm still able to play, tho it takes me a while to warm up, reach those chords w/o buzz, even tho I can barely hang onto a paring knife (lol...maybe motivation has something to do with that). Will try out capoing up and I've always wanted to learn to play with open tuning, so maybe now is the time.

Thanks again, everybody.... Nancy

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 06:31 AM

i too have/ am getting probs like those above. apart from rsi type symptoms, i put the other causes down to creeping old age.

however, when playing guitar in c i usually capo at 5 & play g shapes- far more comfy. d can be accommodated at 7 ,also g shapes.

the squeezebox is harder, when i feel the aches & stiffness coming on, i just have to stop playing for a while or switch to mouth organ or guitar.

a friend at work said cod liver oil can be good for stiff joints-haven't tried it yet, anyone else?

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jun 02 - 06:44 AM

I'm no medic, but this sounds similar to a problem which afflicted Margaret Thatcher a few years back, know as "Dupuytren's contracture " a netsearch should throw something up if this is it. All the best

Nigel

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Mudlark
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:05 PM

Nigel...thanks for the tip...there is a lot about this on the web, just didn't have the name before, some very interesting, especially the "injection" treatment being used in Europe...may have to take a little trip!

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:44 PM

As I've said, I believed the docs to the extent that I had 4 spinal and neck surgeries only to find out after that I'd had MS for 20 years. All because of left hand numbness (at first).

Check things out thoroughly before being cut on.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: JR
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 11:20 PM

You also might try a tenor guitar.. might be a lot easir on everything. As a fellow lefty who plays righty, I can't imagine flipping the thing over & starting over.

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: DonMeixner
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 11:41 PM

When it looked like the damage to my fingers on my left hand was too extensive to over come I considered becoming a lefty. I flipped the old Guild over and tried to recall Bill Staines and how he played. I found i could get the chords easily enough. It was the rhythym of the left hand trhat I found hopeless.

Instead I went to a really talented Physical Therapist who was willing to try odd ball stuff. Not just the moves learned at school. We worked on heat packs and then Autoharp playing. Firing a cap gun as quickly as possible using each finger in successession. Things like that that seemed pointless but gear towards fine motor skill.

Work with a PT and an OT for a real long time before you consider any surgery at all.

Don

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Mudlark
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:39 AM

To Art and Don...Thanks for the encouragement and input. I'm in no hurry to have surgery...at least I CAN still play now, whereas doc could not assure me I'd be able to after surgery, so surgery would be last, last resort for me. Don, I will look for a PT to work with, just difficult, out here in the hinterlands, to find one (or doc either, for that matter) that is a cut above, in that they are willing to try out different things. Will also keep my eye out for an autoharp. Tho I'm not clear on why they would be helpful I've always wanted a good excuse to have one.

JR...I agree re changing hands on guitar--gad, after playing right-handed for nearly 50 years (and still cant make a decent bar chord) I can't imagine switching!

I have lupus, also hypothyroid, both conditions that make me susceptible to tendon/joint problems, so will continue w/anti-inflamatories, good diet, etc. etc. and stretching exercises to try and keep as limber as possible for as long as possible. And I still play every day, am looking forward to exploring open tuning and capo-ing up. Tenor guitar a good idea too...I've got a lovely little parlor Martin, but the fretboard is nearly as wide and deep as my classical.

Thanks again, all...

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: nager
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:52 PM

I have suffered from cramps in the left wrist to the extent that sometimes I simply had to stop playing.. I have tried different postures, had doctors check it out etc etc.. just must have developed a weak wrist... but I have been playing for around 40 years and hope to carry on for another 40!! My remedy is simple and has been covered here on this thread: use a capo from fret two upwards, play in open tunings if you can (hey it's a lot easier on the wrist and often sounds nicer anyway!), make sure you have a low action on the guitar and if possible a thin neck. Songs where you strum holding down chords for long periods hurt a lot. Fingerpicking where you constantly move fingers around with the left hand going from chord to chord and often smaller versions of the chords, works well too. Another trick is to make sure you have a decent break between songs. If you perform in public make sure you do some good chatter between songs and do the odd song unaccompanied to give the hand/wrist a rest and throw in a poem or joke. Importantly take your hand off the fretboard and let it relax. Try to relax generally too while playing. Being "uptight" can bring these things on too. None of these are solutions but it does help eliminate much of the problem. Paul

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: uncle bill
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 11:29 PM

Mudlark, I have personal experience with this insidious disease and the steroids that treat it are even worse. My wife has astounded the doctors who gave her6 years to live 26 years ago. It sounds from your earlier posts that you are open to alternative treatments and the following is only a suggestion but it worked for us. You shud check w/your doctor to make sure but what we did: 1, immediately get yourself tested for Mercury toxicity. Every dental filling you've had for the last ... years may be poisening you. (chek for other heavy metal toxins too)2, limit refined sugar and refined flour products. You may have a food allergy and don't know it-sugar and gluten can double the intensity of a reaction. 3, eliminate all milk and dairy .4,stay our of the sun and warm. wear gloves. As for temporaryrelief of left hand, fill a crock pot with wax, melt it, (low temp) stick your hands in and leave wax on for 30 min. until cold. you can apply dmso - wash hands very clean first, (50-70% solution topically twice daily , but apply vitamin E oil prior to dmso to avoid skin irritaion. I am not a doctor but have had good experience with this and mainly with the food allergy tests. For info , we are in our fifties and my wife has surprised all of her doctors. bill emerson (after diet modification, lupus was re-diagnosed as mctd/schlera derma)

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: DonMeixner
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 12:24 AM

Mudlark,

I am not suggesting that you would benefit from using an Autoharp. That was for my benefit after I had a table saw injury. All my fingers on my left hand were lacerated very deeply, one was severed but reattached. The Autoharp was used as a passive excercise for range of motion and to combat atrophy.

I was only suggesting that you find a creative PT.

Now what I find very fascinating is I to have hypothyroidism (137 Levoxyl everyday) and a Martin O-16 NY parlor sized guitar. Next thing you'll tell me is you drive a minivan and play in an Irish Folk band.

Don

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 03:27 AM

Mudlark,

I've said it in a few other threads, recently. With a few problems I don't like to name (call me supersticious about giving them power*g*) I've had to look into alternatives to steroids, prescription pain meds, etc. One of the things which has helped me, more than anything, is accupuncture. I know you are out in the boonies, but if there is anyway for you to get to a good one, I would give an accupuncturist a try. Also I would look into homeopathic treatments. I am amazed at how much arnica montana helped after I fell and was expecting lots of bruises. I hardly had any from starting it right away. Jenellen also used it after a car accident which banged her up and was very pleased with the effect.

Before I started acu. I had been on pain meds for over 30 years and, recently, sleeping meds. Now, I only take an occasional sleeping pill when I've had an esp. stressful day, no pain meds at all. One thing I use almost every night is also part of Traditional Chinese Medicine and that is Zhen Gu Shui which translates to "middle bone water." It is a tincture which one dribbles on the affected area. I use it on tennis elbow, sore shoulders and wrists. The Chinese traditionalists use it to literally help heal bone breaks. The easiest way is to cut the end out of a sock, pull it up onto your wrist, hand, arm, wherever it hurts and is stiff, then, using an eyedropper, saturate the cloth. It has menthol in it, so will feel cold, but is really quite warming. If you are VERY careful, you can also apply natural heat, i.e. a heated up wheat hull pillow, BUT not too hot as the heat will intensify the effects and could cause a burn. The other thing one can do is to lay a piece of gauze over the sore part and drizzle the tincture on that way. You can also spray it on, but that makes it feel even colder and msot people cannot tolerate it as well that way. This stuff really works well. I have a good supply of it. If you'd like I'd be happy to send you a bottle of it to try out.

The things others have mentioned, keeping it warm, wax/paraffin bath, rest and gentle exercise (even stroking a cat counts and they are warm!), and a good PT are all good, as well as staying out of the sun when it is at its strongest, as that can cause flare ups.

With all good wishes,

kat

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: 53
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:19 AM

Hope that you get better real fast. Bob

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:59 PM

I forgot to say when my left hand became chronically painful due to using a mouse, I got a rolling ball device, based on advice of Mudcatters. It has helped me tremendously, esp. my thumb. I've learned to click with my other fingers and the ball shape, plus the unit it sits in, fit the natural lines of my hand, so there is no extension of the thimb to the side, a stressful contortion, plus my other fingers have gained in strength. FWIW...kat

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: Mudlark
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:22 PM

Thanks again, everybody, for all the very helpful and supportive input...

Nager: Good advice, especially about unclenching from fretboard. I was amazed to see how often Peter Finger does this, even with his lightning fast finger picking. Somehow, in the midst of those incredible runs he manages to unhook and flex without missing a note.

Kat: Many thanks for the info, and offer. I will see if I can find zhen gu shui locally, and if I can't, I will with much gratitude take you up on your offer. Accupuncture was going to be my next stop, but finding a good one is the problem...there are several in the area, but so far I've yet to find an authentic one, same with homeopaths. Did get some stuff from my chiro.--a topical tincture called M.C. (?) but tho I use it religiously (for the placebo effect if nothing else) it doesn't seem to do much but smell nice. And I not only changed mice, I changed hands. Easier than doing so on a guitar!

Dang it, Don...you've just taken away my excuse for buying yet another stringed instrument! But I do love my ought 16 NY and I fear it will be easier to fix my hand than find a guitar with a narrower (and less deep) neck that I like half as well. Here similarity begins to get shaky...I take 90 mg Armour (haha, the real thing!) and have to make do with my 88 Camry station wagon. Would dearly love to play in an Irish Folk Band but have to make do with singing The Quiet Lands of Erin to myself, faking it thru the Irish chorus.

Faswilli: Thanks for the input...all good suggestions, many of which I've already incorporated in my anxiety to stay away from steroids. The one thing I haven't done is merc. testing...I've been the dentist's best friend ever since I was a kid, so have a mouth full of mercury...but not the nerve or the money to have all those HUGE fillings replaced. All these autoimmune diseases aare highly reactive to stress (and that includes allergies) so I think stress reduction is key. I was told in '88 that I had 5-7 yrs to live. Now I may not be going STRONG, but I am still going! Good luck,Bill, to both you and your wife. Partners have a hard time w/chronic illness too.

Sorry this has drifted away from music so far...but for anyone experiencing curvature of fingers type problems, thru this thread I've found a great procedure, called needle fasciotomy, which is MUCH less invasive than the standard surgery done in US for this condition, w/down time 3 days instead of 6wks-6months. Only done in Europe but what a good excuse to go!

Subject: RE: Left Hand Problem
From: DonMeixner
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 05:31 PM

Muddy,

This isn't a drift at all. Hand and finger problems are in store for anyone who plays a stringed instrument. Or a wind instrument for that matter. Music isn't friendly to fingers and hands. How we cope with our disabilities and share the info can only help each of us who plays.

I'll meet anyone who says different in the alley and settle it my self.

Don