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Spanish Influence in West Ireland

GUEST,daniel.carlos1 06 Feb 11 - 05:54 PM
Les in Chorlton 07 Dec 10 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,Guest - Ibero-Celt 07 Dec 10 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,The Black O' Sullivans 27 Dec 09 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,Johnny Spanish 14 Dec 09 - 07:12 PM
OG1 14 Dec 09 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,ANON 13 Dec 09 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Newcomer 11 Dec 09 - 11:01 PM
Les in Chorlton 10 Dec 09 - 12:14 PM
Les in Chorlton 10 Dec 09 - 12:13 PM
ard mhacha 10 Dec 09 - 05:16 AM
ard mhacha 06 Dec 09 - 08:49 AM
Joe Offer 05 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,People are people! 05 Dec 09 - 10:59 AM
Les in Chorlton 05 Dec 09 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,You are the same 05 Dec 09 - 10:32 AM
Les in Chorlton 05 Dec 09 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,Johnny Spanish 05 Dec 09 - 03:57 AM
Lonesome EJ 05 Dec 09 - 02:37 AM
michaelr 05 Dec 09 - 02:06 AM
GUEST,Commonality in people and history. Commonali 05 Dec 09 - 12:34 AM
GUEST,Johnny Spanish 04 Dec 09 - 10:27 PM
Jeri 04 Dec 09 - 09:16 PM
GUEST,Johnny Spanish 04 Dec 09 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Get over it. YOU are Hispanic! 04 Dec 09 - 05:21 PM
GUEST,Johnny Spanish 04 Dec 09 - 07:07 AM
Lonesome EJ 20 Nov 09 - 02:55 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM
Jack Campin 20 Nov 09 - 02:05 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 09 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Thompson 18 Nov 09 - 02:01 PM
Lonesome EJ 18 Nov 09 - 01:50 PM
Jack Campin 18 Nov 09 - 01:48 PM
mg 18 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM
Lonesome EJ 18 Nov 09 - 12:19 PM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 18 Nov 09 - 07:28 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 18 Nov 09 - 05:35 AM
Smedley 18 Nov 09 - 05:30 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 18 Nov 09 - 05:27 AM
Les in Chorlton 18 Nov 09 - 05:17 AM
Lonesome EJ 17 Nov 09 - 11:41 PM
Gulliver 17 Nov 09 - 06:40 PM
Les in Chorlton 17 Nov 09 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Guest 17 Nov 09 - 01:24 PM
Les in Chorlton 17 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM
Lonesome EJ 17 Nov 09 - 12:41 PM
Jack Campin 17 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM
Lonesome EJ 17 Nov 09 - 12:10 PM
Clontarf83 17 Nov 09 - 12:10 AM
GUEST 16 Nov 09 - 09:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,daniel.carlos1
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 05:54 PM

I love your site and have been trying to trace my family history for years, My fathers family came from strokestown co roscommon and I am going over to see my aunt celebrate her 100th birthday in 2 weeks time,I am nearly 60 and for years was told the romantic version of the spanish armada,About 15 years ago I noticed more carlos headstones in strokestown cemetery and was informed they were not related to our side of the family.I have read quite a few books on the armada and many of the ships did have irish and spanish pilots which suggests trading had been going on for many years, By the way all my family were dark haired and dark skined.If you google clann carlos you will find a very interesting site, thanks


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 11:27 AM

Most of Europe traded with most of Europe fpr a very long time didn't?

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Guest - Ibero-Celt
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 01:59 AM

Lewis Topographical Directory of County Kerry --- " In the western part of County Kerry the houses were built after the Spanish fashion, with stone balconies in front; as there was a great communication with the Spaniards and Portuguese, who visited the coast annually in considerable numbers to fish for cod, which circumstance also accounts for the names given to some of the towns. The mountainous parts are chiefly inhabited by herdsmen, who feed and clothe themselves from their own lands, consuming but little of the produce of other places: their habitations are low smoky huts covered with coarse thatch. In some parts the women have a becoming dress, consisting of a jacket of cloth, with loose sleeves, made to fit close round the neck and bosom, and fastened in front with a row of buttons; this is considered to be a relic of the Spanish costume.
They marry at a very early age. The peasants are generally well- proportioned, with swarthy complexions, dark eyes and long black hair, exhibiting, in the opinion of some, strong traces of their Spanish origin. They are a frank, honest race, of very independent spirit, acute in understanding, and friendly and hospitable to strangers."
I have seen other references to fine stone buildings in some of the southwestern ports that housed Spanish merchants, and local sailors that spoke fluent Spanish and regularly sailed to Spain for trade, and there were many Irish mercenaries in the Spanish armies. In 1600 a Spanish force of 2,000 men landed in Cork, intent on starting an uprising against Elizabeth's English administration, and they remained under siege for several months in a local castle. There had been regular trade between Spain and Ireland over 400 to 500 years.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,The Black O' Sullivans
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:36 PM

Folks,
My family here on Beare island, have always been known as the
[blacks] just because we are mostly black-haired or dark red with swarthy complexions, to distinguish us from other families in the area with the same surname; of which there are many.
My daughter-in-law is from Galicia in northern Spain.I've holidayed there on numerous occasions and most of the people in the that area, especially around the big alumina plant look like me and mine.
It has nothing to do with the Spanish Armada and all to do with the healthy trade that built up along the western sea-board between us and northern Spain
Relations between England and Spain were rarely cordial so a dog-leg across Biscay and up the west coast of Ireland was normal. My great grandfather and grand-father both done the Camino de Santiago.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Johnny Spanish
Date: 14 Dec 09 - 07:12 PM

I certainly learned alot from reading all the comments and then going back and doing some research

The whole thing about the shipwrecked Spanish sailors I didnt even know about until recently, but it seems to be nothing more than just an old wive's tale

And I completely failed to realize how much the Vikings influenced ancient Ireland, I must read more into this.

I guess the final conclusion is that the same pre-celtic peoples that lived in Spain also lived throughout the British isles and as far as western Europe. If any significant Spanish migration to Ireland ever occurred, it probably happened near the last Ice Age and by then ships weren't even needed, people probably walked ^^

Of course, the whole issue of whether or not they were Spanish means nothing as it was before national origins and other arbitrary distinctions

would, um, most people...agree???


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: OG1
Date: 14 Dec 09 - 11:13 AM

I agree with your conclusion. People just have a hard time accepting the obvious. They have been raised to be Nationalistic and to believe that the Garden of Eden originated in their backyard.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,ANON
Date: 13 Dec 09 - 05:50 PM

Oh no, Armada, gypsies and biblical mythic tribes all rolled into one. Does no one ever think that there were lots of people living there,say, five thousand years ago? Building tombs and standing stones etc/ And where would these people have come from? The western seaboard,starting in SPAIN. being so remote in the west, the phenotype is preserved best there but DNA shows Ireland and indedd all of Britain can trace its roots to ancient Iberia!


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Newcomer
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 11:01 PM

Yes,

I've noticed the complexion on Sean Connery, Colin Farrell, Catherine Zeta-Jones, etc. Have you guys seen the complexion of world famous athletes, such as:

Spain: Pau Gasol (professional basketball player)

Spain: Feliciano Lopez, Juan Carlos Ferrero (professional tennis players)

USA: Jeff Garcia (professional american football player)

Cuba: Luis Gonzalez (professional baseball player)


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:14 PM

One hundred times yes!

L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:13 PM

Yes


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 05:16 AM

Not forgetting President Obama and Mohamed Ali.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 08:49 AM

And to finish, Hibernian is a less than ordinary football team in the Scottish league.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

There are a lot of strange names in the "from" boxes in many messages in this thread. Allow me to advise you or our posting policy:
    Please remember to use one consistent name when you post. If you post under a variety of names, you risk having all your posts deleted.
Some messages have been deleted for violation of this rule. I'll let the others go to this point, but that's it. No more manipulation of identities. Use one name, and one name only.
Thank you.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,People are people!
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 10:59 AM

That was the point of:

"Whales, Sperm Whales, Wales, Welch, Irish, Scottish, Celtic, Galic, Gaul, British, Brittany, Swarthy, Freckles, Red hair, Blonde hair, Black hair, Brown eyes, Blue eyes, Hazel eyes, Green eyes, Gray eyes, Spanish, Hispanic, Latin,...

Oh, that's right! I almost forgot, ...Goths, Visigoths, Germanic, Vandals, Andalusians, Aryans, Persians, Bagpipes -the true origins of the beloved Bagpipes- etc., etc., ...

If you've seen one Euro you've seen them all. You can tell you guys apart? "

Every one is the same. People just like to look for nuances in each other to use as an excuse to divide and conquer (i.e. those god damn muslim "terrorists" that live on top of our oil!).

Oh that's right, except for those "nice" -European- muslims -without oil- from Bosnia and Herzegovina.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 10:43 AM

Got it. Exlnt

L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,You are the same
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 10:32 AM

That was the point of:

"Whales, Sperm Whales, Wales, Welch, Irish, Scottish, Celtic, Galic, Gaul, British, Brittany, Swarthy, Freckles, Red hair, Blonde hair, Black hair, Brown eyes, Blue eyes, Hazel eyes, Green eyes, Gray eyes, Spanish, Hispanic, Latin,...

Oh, that's right! I almost forgot, ...Goths, Visigoths, Germanic, Vandals, Andalusians, Aryans, Persians, Bagpipes -the true origins of the beloved Bagpipes- etc., etc., ...

If you've seen one Euro you've seen them all. You can tell you guys apart? "

Every one is the same. People just like to look for nuances in each other to use as an excuse to divide and conquer (i.e. those god damn muslim "terrorists" that live on top of our oil!).


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:39 AM

Have I missed the point here:

"Whales, Sperm Whales, Wales, Welch, Irish, Scottish, Celtic, Galic, Gaul, British, Brittany, Swarthy, Freckles, Red hair, Blonde hair, Black hair, Brown eyes, Blue eyes, Hazel eyes, Green eyes, Gray eyes, Spanish, Hispanic, Latin,...

Oh, that's right! I almost forgot, ...Goths, Visigoths, Germanic, Vandals, Andalusians, Aryans, Persians, Bagpipes -the true origins of the beloved Bagpipes- etc., etc., ...

If you've seen one Euro you've seen them all. You can tell you guys apart? "

I read this as something like Europe is and for a long time has been a melting pot that doesn't entirely melt?

No, maybe not

L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Johnny Spanish
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 03:57 AM

Lololol, yeah between the Basquectomy jokes and yours I was expecting a more lighthearted response. Whatever, I don't offend too easy ^^


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:37 AM

Hey Johnny, I posted that Basque pun 2 weeks ago and got not a single remark, even though I thought it was pure genius. Instead this thread sank like a stove-in Armada galleon off Great Blasket. I'm glad somebody saw fit to say "you guys are funny".


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:06 AM

No worries Johnny -- some folks here are hyper-sensitive and smell trolls under every bridge. Don't let that bother you.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Commonality in people and history. Commonali
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:34 AM

Roman influences: Brittania, Londinium, Aque Sulis,...

Hispanic born Roman Emperors: Trajan, Hadrian, Hadrian's wall,...

The Spanish Empire: Germany, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, Italy, France, Africa, Asia, Oceania, Habsburgs, Bourbons, Charles I, Phillip II...

Hence: Mobilis, Mueble, Mueblen, Möbel, Movable...


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Johnny Spanish
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 10:27 PM

When I said "you guys were funny" I meant the people in the forum, some were actually posting good humor and jokes so I don't think the term "funny" should have been taken as offensive.

I think there is some equivocation here, I'm sorry I ever posted ><


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 09:16 PM

You are the one who used the phrase 'you guys'. To whom were you referring?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Johnny Spanish
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 08:49 PM

Wow, I think I just witnessed somebody going insane...creepy

Oh an BTW when you say "you guys" I guess you mean all Hispanics and that all us Hispanics are the same. Sigh, ignorance goes hand in hand with stereotypes. Yes, I know the difference, and just because you can't tell doesn't mean that there isn't one.

The proximity of Spain to Ireland, though, does not require a leap of imagination.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Get over it. YOU are Hispanic!
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 05:21 PM

Whales, Sperm Whales, Wales, Welch, Irish, Scottish, Celtic, Galic, Gaul, British, Brittany, Swarthy, Freckles, Red hair, Blonde hair, Black hair, Brown eyes, Blue eyes, Hazel eyes, Green eyes, Gray eyes, Spanish, Hispanic, Latin,...

Oh, that's right! I almost forgot, ...Goths, Visigoths, Germanic, Vandals, Andalusians, Aryans, Persians, Bagpipes -the true origins of the beloved Bagpipes- etc., etc., ...

If you've seen one Euro you've seen them all. You can tell you guys apart?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Johnny Spanish
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 07:07 AM

LOL, you guys are funny

I have often wondered about this as well because I'm hispanic, and I have cousins and friends who are very fair and often have freckles and light eyes...it makes me scratch my head when the rest of us are kind of swarthy

and then every once and a while I meet folks that are kind of swarthy and I ask them if they're hispanic and they swear to me that they're 100% Irish.

I dunno, I think somewhere along the line somebody might have "crossed a fence" or two ^^


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:55 PM

If somebody removed all trace of the Basques from Ireland that would have been a vascectomy.

Wouldn't that be like putting all your Basques in one exit?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

Stop me, stop me .................

Perhaps a Basquectomy?

See I should have been stopped

L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:05 PM

If somebody removed all trace of the Basques from Ireland that would have been a vascectomy.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:53 PM

What Jack Campin said and why was my joke about vasectomy removed?

L in C
    No messages of yours have been deleted, Les. Maybe it just didn't "take."
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Thompson
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:01 PM

Incidentally, The Spanish Lady is a song about a Dublin prostitute. Nothing to do with the west.

Why did I see the title of this thread as 'Spanish Influenza in West Ireland'?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:50 PM

Interesting point about the maritime terms. So your theory, Jack?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:48 PM

Were there Celts from the Iberian Peninsula who found their way to Ireland and had a racial and cultural impact? That seems much more likely.

Why should Spanish arrivals have been Celtic? The major seafaring group in northern Spain is the Basques.

There is good reason to believe there were no such arrivals. There are a lot of loanwords in Irish for maritime terms - but they're all from Norse. Any people that travelled hundreds of miles by sea to get to Ireland would have brought some words with them. And there are no Spanish, Iberian Celtic or Basque seafaring words in Irish.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: mg
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM

Haven't there been DNA studies? What do they say? And you can tell if the Spanish/Moorish influence came from the male line, as in sailors etc., or female, as in perhaps indigenous.

Someone referred to the men of Dunquin as aboriginal in an old book for what that is worth.

My father always said we were Black Irish..at least he was..I don't look a bit even Irish...and I thought it was from the Garvey line who were from Dingle area...but I saw pictures of my ggm with two daughters and they looked totally Spanish..but we thought she was from the middle of Ireland somewhere..but just last week found her obitiuary and it said she was from County Kerry...


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:19 PM

There are several interesting sites regarding the derivation of the name Hibernia and Irish history in general.

This is a very interesting site that spends a lot of time on the history and myths of ancient Ireland.

This is a very scholarly study of the ancient world's knowledge of Ireland, its cloudy reputation as the Western Edge of the World, the various names given it, and the possibility of confusion as to the related geographies of Iceland, Ireland, and Scotland.

What seems clear after a small bit of investigation, is that the origin of the word Hibernia is not clear at all. Theories range from the latin word for winter (as I stated), the Greek allusion to Iverna (as Don stated), some relationship to the Ibernia River in Spain (as Eamonn Shanahan stated), a possible connection to a King or tribe named Eber, and so on. I do think the Roman term has a lot to do with a name for Ireland that sounded to them like "the land of winter", or Hibernia. It was probably a convenient and rather humorous way of dismissing the island as a place they didn't want to deal with.
I certainly don't believe that there was any significant Spanish influence in West Ireland resulting from contact with survivors of the Armada. Were there Celts from the Iberian Peninsula who found their way to Ireland and had a racial and cultural impact? That seems much more likely.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 07:28 AM

We've got all these folk songs about the naughty misdeeds of sailors in foreign ports and you think we need an "official" connection between Spain and Ireland?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:35 AM

I enjoyed paella - when I was in Spain; and when in Rome...


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Smedley
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:30 AM

Not much about Spanish influence there......

(My caddy was a lovely fella
He made a tasty pan of paella............???)


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:27 AM

Despite such beautiful scenery, if I was to visit Ireland these days, I'd be more keen on a folk-club than a golf-club...

Poem 12 of 230: GOLF AT KILLARNEY

At Killarney Golf and Fishing Club,
    There's two great courses to be found;
Built on Ireland's fine Ring of Kerry,
    Both are really worth a round.

From the local social Youth Hostel,
    I hitched (doing as Irish do);
Then paid to play both the courses,
    But missed five holes - Hostel curfew.

The fairways were lush and nicely groomed,
    And the course views the best I've seen;                        
With walks beside the lakes and mountains,
    I'm proud to say to there I've been.

From a href="http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse">http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:17 AM

Well, contrary to all expectations, that seems to have solved all mysteries concerning Spain and Ireland. init

L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 11:41 PM

The Greek name for Ireland was Ierne. The Romans of Caesar's time often referred to it as Scoti, and there is some debate as to whether the term Hibernia was applied to Iceland or Ireland by the Romans. At any rate, the Latin word for winter is certainly hiberna. It is also known that Strabo and Julius Caesar and other writers, who place Ierne and Hibernia geographically north of Britain, considered it a cold country, and that the historian Claudian referred to it as icy.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Gulliver
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 06:40 PM

Hibernia has nothing to do with Iberia. It's derived from the latin word for Winter.

Hibernia is not from the Latin from Winter, it's taken from the Greek name for Ireland: Iverna.

Don


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:41 PM

No, no stop it and leave now

L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:24 PM

This may be another myth - but I recall reading somewhere that Moorish pirates were wont to regularly raid and pillage and rape, etc. the west coast of Ireland during the Middle Ages. Perhaps this is a source of the black Irish?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM

What a priceless f*cking thread
L in C


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:41 PM

Capitalists?


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN INTERMIXING FOR MILLENIA

humans don't interbreed with species that type in capitals.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:10 PM

Hibernia has nothing to do with Iberia. It's derived from the latin word for Winter.


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: Clontarf83
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:10 AM

I was told by someone somewhere that the origin of the Claddagh ring was a ring sent by the King of Spain to indicate his permission for a Spaniard to marry a local (Galway) girl.

Looks like this is another piece of blarney....


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Subject: RE: Spanish Influence in West Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 09:15 PM

"IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS FROM WHALES, IRELAND AND THE BRITISH ISLES ARE PREDOMINANTLY OF SPANISH DESCENT."


Ha - I guess they're descended from sperm whales.


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