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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:29 PM I knew Old Mac Donald well! He could speak no Latin but Gaelic was his mother tongue. Slainte, Sandy Seann Mhac Dhomhnaill Seann Mhac Dhomhnaill. gu robh` ait aig , I ai I ai o Air an aite bha aige cearcan, I ai I ai o Le glug-glug siud agus glug-glug seo Seo glug, siud glug, a h-uile h_`aite glug-glug Seann Mhac Dhoinhnaill. gu robh ait aig , I ai I ai o. Seann Mhac Dhomhnail1 gu robh `ait aig I ai I ai o, Air an aite bha aige tunnagan, I ai I ai o Le glag-glag siud agus glag-glagL seo, Seo glag siud glag h-uile h-`aite glag-glag ,Seann Mhac Dhomhnaill gu robh ait aig I ai I ai o. Seann Mhac Dhomhnaill gu robh ait aig , I ai l ai o, Air an aite bha aige geoidh I ai I ai o, Le hong-hong siud agus hong-hong seo Seo hong siud hong, a h-uile h-aite hong-hong Seann Mhae Dhomhnaill gu robh ait aig I ai I ai o. Seann Mhac Dhomhnaill gu robh ait aig , I ai I ai o Air an aite bha aige crodh, I ai I ai o, Le mu-mu siud agus mu-mu seo, Seo mu siud mu a h-uile h-aite mu-mu, SeannMhac Dhomhnaill gu robh ait' aig , I ai I ai o (*from the late Hugh F. MacKenzie, Christmas Island. Recorded in the Cape Bretoniana archives.) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Schantieman Date: 05 Feb 03 - 12:42 PM LOL, Sharon! I shall pass this entire thread on to our classics department! Steve |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:03 AM Another Latin version: Look on this page for Gaius est agricola The sounds produced by the animals, although, are not totally satisfying, since they are not described onomatopoetically as in the original, but by verbs (yours truly's humble opinion). Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 29 Jun 02 - 11:49 PM Salve, Mike! Good to see somebody take me up on the invitation. There are no interlopers at the Mudcat; only GUESTs. ;-) Another recent thread any Latin teachers nosing about hereabouts should visit is Teaching Latin, Using Latin. I forgot to mention it on Latinteach.com. Liland/Lelandice |
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Subject: Lyr Add: VETULUS MACDONALIS / OLD MCDONALD From: GUEST,Michael Myer Date: 29 Jun 02 - 11:13 PM Hope you'll pardon a post from an interloper. I'm a Latin teacher and use songs quite a bit in my classes. I heard about the thread here and will paste in part of a post to Latinteach from a few months ago:
~~~Begin Quote~~~ First, a typo. The line: >ursi unvant vel fremunt et saeviunt should read "ursi unCant vel..." The C and V are right next to each other on the keyboard, so it was an easy mistake. There may be others, I just happened to notice that one. Second, I am notorious for starting my very youngest students on the Latin alphabet and its sounds by introducing them to Ager Vetuli Macdonalis. For those who don't know it, it runs like so: VETULUS MACDONALIS (OLD MCDONALD)
Vetulus Macdonalis agrum habebat
(The fun part is getting them to spell the sound that their animal makes using the sounds of the Latin alphabet.
Vetulus Macdonalis agrum habebat
Whatever else we do during those first days of class, we add one or two animalia to our fundus [1]. And every year, the kids shock and surprise me with the animals they want on the farm and the sounds they come up with. A few from the most recent group of 3rd graders:
simius dicit "û û".
There are 21 of these on this list. Not too bad for yunguns, eh?
Pax, |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Jeanie Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:00 PM Yes, Mark, Moerder Guss Reims is the German sequel to Mots d'Heures: Gousses, Rames - complete with the "learned" annotations. I'm delighted to find another fan of these brilliant books ! They were written by John Hulme who worked as an interpreter in the Royal Air Force. Here's a good one: Dick Wien (1) auf Harz, sie meid' samt Arzt Orlon ass, um er steh. (2) Der Neffe Fahrt sehr stolz (3); sie tat's Und Tuch dem Reiterweh. (4) Footnotes: (1) The Viennese are noted for their love of good food and they tend to put on weight as a result. (2) The poet advises the fat people of Vienna to eat resin in order to avoid the doctor and Orlon in order to remain upright. (3) "The nephew is very proud on the journey." He was probably ashamed to be seen out with them before, even assuming that they could get into his car. (4)"She put a cloth in the car so they would not suffer from rider's pain." The delicacy of this line conceals a reference to an ailment to which so many who lead a sedentary life and eat all too well are martyrs. Another of my favourites is the line from "Goosey, Goosey Gander" : "Who wouldn't say his prayers", which is "translated" as "Hu ! Bodensee Express". - jeanie
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:28 PM It occurs to me this might be the place to get an Itsy-Bitsy Spider translation. I've posted a request that has so far gone unrequited here. Latin would be welcome, or anything else (I only know it in English and Esperanto). Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:28 PM To get those sounds using the Latin phonemes, it would go (long)i, ae, i, ae, (long) o -- n'est-ce pas? But I don't know the Latin names of the letters. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: SharonA Date: 17 Jun 02 - 02:01 PM Oh, wait... That's Greek... Then what would the Latin letter-names be? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: SharonA Date: 17 Jun 02 - 01:58 PM I'm so glad that Wilfried brought up the issue of the translation of "e-i-e-i-o" (as, he says, "hi-a-hi-ha-ho"). Now, "hi-a-hi-ha-ho" works if you consider it to be an approximation of the noise "e-i-e-i-o", but if you consider "e-i-e-i-o" to be a string of letters, as written, than the translation would have to be: epsilon - iota - epsilon - iota - omicron! (which, of course, doesn't fit the meter of the song, but would be fun to sing anyway!) Sharon |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:58 AM Oh, oh! I was too tired this morning. Instead of "et in rure fuit ... " "hoc in rure ..." sounds far better. So let's try it again:
Macdonaldo seni rus;
...
...
Cantibus gaudete
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:53 AM Oh, oh! I was too tired this morning. Instead of "et in rure fuit ... " "hoc in rure ..." sounds far better. So let's try it again:
Macdonaldo seni rus;
...
...
Cantibus gaudete
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Mark Cohen Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:18 AM Jeanie, it sounds like the book you mentioned is a me-too version of Mots d'Heures -- Gousses, Rames (sorry, can't do accents), which was published in 1967 by Luis D'Antin Van Rooten. The German version sounds equally brilliant. Does it also include academic-sounding footnotes "explaining" the often bizarrely-phrased "poems"? For example: Un petit d'un petit S'etonne aux Halles Un petit d'un petit Ah! degres te fallent... The footnote to the first line says: "The inevitable result of a child marriage." And Micca's ditty reminds me of this one that I learned from my Latin teacher: FUNEM? SVFM. FUNEX? SVFX. OKILFMNX Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 17 Jun 02 - 02:47 AM Lectoribus benevolis salutem!
A short critique of the Macdonald versions:
If you want to hear the weekly news in Latin, switch to: http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/, a service of Radio Finland.
Since Winnie ille Puh was mentioned, let me tell you about some more translations in my shelves: Tristitia salve : fabula amatoria / Francisca Sagana. E Gallico in Latinam sermonem conversa ab Alexandro Lenardo. - Paris: Julliard, 1963. (Here we find "Aqua vitae modo Scotorum praeparata"; a name which needs longer to be pronounced than the fluid to be gulped) Valete Wilfried
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 15 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM Lilandice, Littera privata tibi misi. I've sent you a personal message with the "Crusta Americana" lyrics. If you're not sure how to access them, go to "Personal Pages" and look around, you'll find it. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:05 AM Deda, I would not turn down "Vale, vale, Miss American Pie", but in the meantime I think I'll steal all of your Latin phrases for use on my Latin webpage. Gratiam maximissimam ago! Lelandico |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 14 Jun 02 - 07:40 PM Just in case (unlikely) anyone on this thread missed the OTHER Latin thread which is currently running, here's a cross post: There's a very gifted Latin teacher who is actually a Latinist for the Vatican and who gives summer seminars in the US on spoken Latin; he's a big believer that Latin should be taught as a living language. I've never been able to attend any of his seminars but those who have are wildly enthusiastic. His name has slipped my mind but it's hovering just out of reach. There is also a web site, based in Finland, where world news is published in Latin--the only thing is, it's only updated every few weeks so it's usually stale news. There are various Latin chat rooms and threads, where you can discuss anything your heart desires as long as you do it in Latin. Some Elvis songs have been translated, performed, and put out on cassette in Latin. A guy named Henry Beard wrote a very popular book a few years ago translating a lot of modern expressions, pickup lines, etc., into Latin (see below). Several Dr. Seuss books are available in Latin, including How the Grinch stole Xmas, The Cat in the Hat, and Oh, The Places You'll Go (the last one a rather lame, weak translation, IMHO, but the others are outstanding). All the links you could want to all of this are probably available at www.latinteach.com, and if not you can find any Latin information or reference or web connection you want by posting a query on their chat group. If anyone really wants them, I have the words to "Bye-bye Miss American Pie" in Latin, but they're at home. They don't scan. Important Latin Phrases
Die dulci fruere. Have a nice day. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 14 Jun 02 - 07:01 PM I think I did in fact make a mistake with that "totum orbum" thing. What I was trying for was "the entire circle of the lands" which is latin for "in the whole wide world" and it's something like "totum orbum terrarum". Accusative can be used for destination, for duration, extent, various things, not just direct object. But you're absolutely right, "in" requires the ablative in this situation, so it should be "in orbi tota terrarum", assuming orbs, orbis is feminine, which I'm not sure about. If not, then "in orbi toto terrarum". So guest mgarvey, if Latin is a pass into heaven, you'll beat me to it. Optime! Mark's patriotic ditty was "My country, tis of thee", and Liland's song is "Cuckaberry sits in the old gum tree... Laugh, cuckaberry, laugh cuckaberry, etc." Micca's is a particularly delightful piece of nonsense which I won't give away right away. It has to be said out loud with Latin vowels. I've also seen the first line as "Sibille, si ergo," which may or may not help at all. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Micca Date: 14 Jun 02 - 08:37 AM or.. Civile, si ergo Fortibus es in ero Gnoses mare,thebe trux Vatis inem? Causan dux! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Jeanie Date: 14 Jun 02 - 03:20 AM At the risk of being told off (and quite rightly) for a temporary diversion into another language altogether, Wilfried and others who speak German and English will be interested in the following poem from one of my favourite books: "Moerder Guss Reims", complete with annotations by the learned Professor Leberwurst. The poem MUST be read aloud. When you do, you will see why. Kocher dudel' Du Mai, dem ass los der Schuh. Mai Mast es los. Dies Feder links tick' An Dutzend. Nu, Worte Du ! There are many more where that came from, for example "Dick Wien auf Harz, sie meid' samt Arzt". Sorry for the Germanic diversion. Entschuldigung ! - jeanie |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 14 Jun 02 - 03:02 AM Latin, alas, will go down in Germany due to a change in the high school system. I am the last of my family who had the chance to start with Latin as first foreign language and to learn Greek and Hebrew, too. Poor daughters of mine who hadn't the chance any more, only poor 4 years of Latin. But in the late 19th century a lot of students enjoyed their skills in Latin and Greek translating famous German student and folk songs into these languages. I happen to own a not so small book with such translations, entitled Allemannia. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Coyote Breath Date: 13 Jun 02 - 09:04 AM I LOVE the Senex Macdonaldus! I am going to learn it, pronto! The only "latin" I know is: "Illigitimus non carborundum" I too (mousethief) regret not having had latin in HS. My catholic friends knew bits and pieces and a couple of them attended a Catholic High School and had it taught them. One of the funniest scenes of Monty Python's "Life of Brian" is when Brian is "corrected" by the centurion! CB |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 10 Jun 02 - 10:36 PM I am wondering why you (Deda) wrote in totum orbem instead of in toto orbe????something like that..isn't it accusative when you mean "into" and ablative when you mean "in" or "on" or am I misremembering. Shame on me. I figured as long as I remembered some Latin I might get into heaven. mg |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Mark Cohen Date: 10 Jun 02 - 06:37 PM Yes I do, but why would Felix's sister be renting a car from Avis? And in Australia, no less? Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 10 Jun 02 - 02:03 AM What do you want to know about it, Mark? It's a cute translation. I've been digging around at the Latinteach.com archives that Deda recommended, and have come up with... ta-da... Dacelo sidet in eucalypto, rex laetissimus omnis silvae: ride dacelo ride dacelo: felix avis sis. Got it? ;-) Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Mark Cohen Date: 10 Jun 02 - 12:15 AM That's a good one, Herga. Of course, "arare" is the name for those tasty little Japanese rice crackers. They're very popular here in Hawaii. Just thought you might like to know. And no one's yet given the answer to "Te cano patria". But, hey, that's America for you. Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 09 Jun 02 - 09:08 PM Thanks, Deda! Latinteach.com does look like fun (though their archives are awash in popup ads; and I thought GeoCities was bad that way!) and I have already posted to them twice. Hope they don't mind a non-teacher interloping. Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 09 Jun 02 - 07:09 PM "Tetra", Dēda, credō. Grātiam agō! Latinteach.com conābor! Lelandicus Brŷans Rox (gen. Lelandicī Bryantis Rossis) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Herga Kitty Date: 09 Jun 02 - 05:54 PM If I remember rightly, there used to be an inscription on a bench in the University Parks, Oxford, which read: "Ore stabit fortis arare placet ore stat". Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 09 Jun 02 - 03:28 PM Liland -- I'm sorry you haven't gotten an answer about the malo malo (etc) ditty. Have you tried Latinteach.com? I'd think you could fit it to various children's tunes, you just need something with four strong beats to a line, and four lines. (Trochaic -- quadrameter? What's greek for "four"?) Bonam fortunam! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: fat B****rd Date: 09 Jun 02 - 03:12 PM The only Latin I can muster after 42 years is "pilae tibi magna vagina" For whatever reason I wish I'd bothered to learn more. Valete from Spurius Magnus. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Haruo Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:27 PM And yet no one will give me a tune for "Malo, I would rather be" (a rather clever bit of minimal macaroni)? Cur? Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Moleskin Joe Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:08 PM At school I learned "I Belong to Glasgow" in Latin. It started Civis Glasguensis, Glasguensis sum. I can't remember the rest of it now. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: GUEST Date: 08 Jun 02 - 07:01 PM Giok,
Caesar ad sum jam forti
was the way I learned it |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Lanfranc Date: 08 Jun 02 - 07:00 PM Latinus lingua mortua est Ut mortua ut mortua esse potest Romanos antiquos necabat Et nunc me necat! 40 years sloughed off as I recalled that bit of doggerel. Thanks for old MacDonald - was it written by a Campbell! Alan
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Mark Cohen Date: 08 Jun 02 - 06:54 PM Te cano patria Candida libera Te referet Portus et exsulum Et tumulus senum Libera montium Vox resonet Got it? Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: John MacKenzie Date: 08 Jun 02 - 12:01 PM Caeser asum am furte Brutus eterat Caeser sic in omnibus Brutus sic in et Excuse the spellings if they are wrong, I learned this 40 years ago while at school, using the oral tradition, and never saw it written down......Giok |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: fogie Date: 07 Jun 02 - 12:31 PM Dont forget the Kippers AWAYDAY a parody on Gaudete. havent got the time to quote it at present. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: rich-joy Date: 07 Jun 02 - 07:59 AM I've just printed out the song versions above and handed them to the requesting Significant Other "Poor Misery". He is OVERJOYED at the Mudcat response and says "THANKS MA-A-A-A-TE!!!!" As I write, he is tormenting me with his attempts at producing this song ... (Thanks you guys) Cheers from Down Under!! R-J
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: DonD Date: 06 Jun 02 - 08:48 PM Salve, Deda et alii: My father was a Latin teacher and I has the privilege of being in his classes. Probably the most valuable and lasting education I've had. His fame in his High School was acting out Caesar's attack on Vercingetorix by climnig on his desk with the window pole while declaiming. He also isisted that someone in the class oplay Cataline while a chosen student excoriated him. I can picture it now, the poor miscreant bowed in shame, covering his eyes from the verbal lashes. But on the musical side (and was he ever non-musical) he wrote a fight song for the school football team (which I was coincidentally recalling just today, after almost sixty years)_ and he had it printed up on little cards to hand out at the games, with one side in English and the other side in Latin. Sadly, it was so behind the times that neither side caught on -- except with me. Relating toother current threads, I relate Latin in the US to soccer/football -- beautiful to those who know it, but just too much trouble to understand for most. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: mousethief Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:24 PM Thanks Deda, but at this point in my life it's a matter of time. I have Wheelock's 7th edition but never the time to work with it. Back in high school would have been the perfect time to learn it, doggone it. Maybe when more of the kids have flown the nest. Alex |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 06 Jun 02 - 05:53 PM I'm a latin tutor. If you'd really like to start to learn it now, PM me and I can recommend books for self-study as well as web-sites for grammatical exercises. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: mousethief Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:32 PM Only for ordering burritos or linguini. For understanding the English language and European culture, Latin has to be my choice. Alex |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: MMario Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:25 PM according to various members of the academic world (against whom my mother fought a losing battle to retain latin in our educational system) a good curriculum of spanish or italian is "as useful or more so then latin" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: mousethief Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:24 PM And I still agree! Alex |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: GUEST Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:23 PM 'Ox Bow canals' should probably read 'Ox Bow lakes' 'The Principle of Momemts' should certaily read 'The Principle of Moments' It's been a while My point about studying Latin being a good idea does however remain |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: mousethief Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:23 PM Lucky dog! I was furious when I got to high school and discovered they weren't teaching Latin. I've felt it a gaping hole in my education ever since. Alex |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: GUEST Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:18 PM Latin is fabulous. Of all the 'O' levels I took Latin (apart from Maths and English, perhaps) is the one that has proved to be most useful. I never need to know about 'Ox Bow canals' (geography) or 'The Principle of Momemts' (physics) but the understanding of language that learning Latin has given me, means that I make use of that part of my education every day. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: mousethief Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:16 PM Deda, I'm not sure that "latin music" is the proper term -- it rather has other overtones. :o) Alex |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Latin form of Old MacDonald's Farm From: Deda Date: 06 Jun 02 - 04:12 PM God, I just love this -- I would really have sworn that I was the only latin-and-folk-music-lover in the wide, wide world, in totum orbem terrarum -- and look at all these great posts! |
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