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Origin: Doctor Price

CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 12:26 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Jun 02 - 12:53 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 09 Jun 02 - 01:06 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 09 Jun 02 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Leadfingers 09 Jun 02 - 01:24 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Jun 02 - 03:16 PM
CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 03:32 PM
CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 03:39 PM
Gareth 09 Jun 02 - 03:50 PM
CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 06:35 PM
Gareth 09 Jun 02 - 06:42 PM
CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 06:47 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 02 - 06:50 PM
CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 07:09 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 09 Jun 02 - 07:21 PM
CapriUni 09 Jun 02 - 11:48 PM
GUEST,Murray on Saltspring 10 Jun 02 - 01:39 AM
CapriUni 10 Jun 02 - 11:44 AM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Jun 02 - 12:00 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 08 - 05:08 AM
GUEST,Suffolk Miracle 14 Nov 08 - 05:21 AM
GUEST,Suffolk Miracle 14 Nov 08 - 05:45 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 14 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM
Gervase 14 Nov 08 - 07:55 AM
sian, west wales 14 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM
Dame Pattie Smith EPNS 14 Nov 08 - 07:34 PM
Leadfingers 14 Nov 08 - 07:59 PM
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Subject: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 12:26 PM

I found this song: Doctor Price in the DT. The lyrics are intriguing. The footnote at the bottom (submitted by XX [?]) is even more intriguing: "The theme of this song is totally true"

So, is this song contemporary with the good (if weird) doctor's life, more or less? Or was it written more recently, based on accounts in history books?

And, btw, where can I get my hands on those books?

Did he, himself, write books, and can they be acquired anywhere (with relative ease -- I'm not in a position to hunt down something that only has 10 copies in the world).

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 12:53 PM

The song is modern, but indeed based on a real person. Although in many ways completely mad, Price did make one very important contribution to life as we know it today. From History Magazine: Cremation:

"One catalyst for the allowance of cremation in Britain was the 1883 decision of Dr. William Price of Llantrisant in Wales to cremate his son's remains. However, Price did this in full view of the public, creating outrage, and legal proceedings were taken against him. In February of the following year, the judge presiding over Dr. Price's case ruled that cremation was a legal procedure, provided that no nuisance was caused to others. Dr. Price went on to cremate his son's remains, which had been stored in his home during the trial, and Dr. Price himself was cremated when he died a few years later. Despite the ruling, only three cremations took place in England during 1885."


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:06 PM

Dr Price was cremated on top of two tons of coal. See http://www.mentercaerffili.org/saesneg/hanesdrwmprices.htm . A biography here:
Dr Price


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:11 PM

The court decision, by Mr Justice Stephens in 1884, led to increased activity on the part of the Cremation Society of England. Public interest had also been stirred by the wish of Garibaldi of Italy to be cremated (carried out in 1882).


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 01:24 PM

I have the song as written by Callenig , Mick and Pat Smith


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 03:16 PM

That would be Mick Tems; presumably the song was written for The Price of Everything, a musical play about Dr. Price on which he collaborated with Geoff Lake. See Doctor Price Productions.

There is a statue of Dr. Price ouside the Model House in Llantrisant, complete with the fox he always wore on his head: The Bullring and Model House


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 03:32 PM

Malcolm --

"One catalyst for the allowance of cremation in Britain was the 1883 decision of Dr. William Price of Llantrisant in Wales to cremate his son's remains. [...] Dr. Price went on to cremate his son's remains"

So he cremated the remains twice? hmmm...

Dicho -- thanks for the biography link. ...Any idea why he was opposed to innoculation (and what was the state of innoculation in the 19th century)?

Leadfingers --

When did Mick and Pat Smith write the song?


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for the further links, Malcolm... Interesting statue... that fox wasn't alive, was it? ;-)


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Gareth
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 03:50 PM

No the fox was dead, stuffed and made into a form of cap.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 06:35 PM

I realize that Gareth -- hence the little winky face at the end...

Ya know, it may sound crazy, but is it any crazier than wearing a raccoon skin on your head?

erm... never mind... Davey Crocket didn't leave the eyes in, did he? Oh well...


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Gareth
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 06:42 PM

Frankley no - but we are very proud of our own excentics !

Possibly, but only possibly, a substitute for using a Wolves head and pelt as a symbol of tribal leadership.

Gareth **BG**


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 06:47 PM

Or just because it was stylin'!


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 06:50 PM

Really interesting stuff. Had never heard of Dr. William Price before.

Thanks everyone


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 07:09 PM

'Welcome, Guest! That's what we're here for...

I myself didn't know about Price until I did a Digitrad search for a fiddle tune I could filk; "fiddle" brought up the song: So Early In the Morning. Out of curiosity, to see what other songs had the same tune, I did a search for the name of the midi file (posted below of all songs that have tunes with them), and a link to Doctor Price came up...

Wandering around the Digitrad can be so much fun!

(the above was a public service announcement, for those unfamiliar with DT games -- we now return you to your regularly scheduled Forum)


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 07:21 PM

I would have to read one of the books listed at the end of the brief bio to find out his objections to inoculations. All I know is that smallpox inoculations first became common in England in 1723. In 1796 Dr Jenner started inoculations using vaccinia virus. see Smallpox


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Jun 02 - 11:48 PM

Okay, Dicho, thanks! I didn't realize that vaccines came in so early...

...though even in the 20th/21st Century, vaccines can be tricky. I once met a girl who had cerebral palsey-like symptoms, and used a wheelchair because she was one of the few who had a bad reaction to a vaccine... Dunno if it was spallpox, though,,,


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 10 Jun 02 - 01:39 AM

The song is much older than 1993, since I collected it (from a Welshman) way back in (I think) the sixties - to the tune So Early in the Morning.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: CapriUni
Date: 10 Jun 02 - 11:44 AM

That's the tune in the DT, too, Murray... I think it's a bit presumptuous of Mr. Tems to say he wrote the music to this particular song, even if he did tinker with the lyrics...

The biographical detail that tickles me the most, that I really want to be true is that he lay in his deathbed drinking champange and singing... That's how I want to go. I don't drink alchohol, but I do want to go out in a celebratory mood.

Oh, and can some kind Mudcatter please give a non-Welsh speaker an English phonetic spelling of "Llantrisant" and a translation of 'Ach a fi'?

Thanks so much!

... oh, and the DT sems to be down, this morning. I went back and checked the lyrics through the Digitrad Mirror site, here.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jun 02 - 12:00 PM

Mick certainly won't have claimed anything of the sort. As for "tinkering with the lyrics", that seems an unjustified remark in view of the little we know so far. He's old enough to have written the song in the (late) '60s, but we can't ask him at the moment as he was still very ill last I heard.

It was my presumption, based on Leadfingers' reference to Callenig, that the song might have been made for the stage show I referred to, but Murray's post demonstrates it to be older than that; that isn't evidence that it's not Mick's song, of course. We shall have to see what other information turns up.

It was from Mick, as you may know, that June Tabor learned The Seven Wonders.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 05:08 AM

Thanks all for interesting info. I,ve been trying to obtain an LP with this tune on it, for yonks. I had it once but it got lost in lifes travels.It was sung by a touring group of actors & singers and I think the LP was headed Pryderi & his pigs, not to be confused with the similar named group from the States. I heard them first in Criccieth in a small hall in the main street in the early seventies. Anybody got any info on how and where I can get my hands again on this LP?


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 05:21 AM

I always thought it was by Meic Stevens, but I may be wrong. I first saw it in The Free Wales Army Songbook or somesuch title; most of the stuff in it was by Meic.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 05:45 AM

The song is in my repertoire. Just occasionally folk songs open doors. I once had occasion to ring, in my English accent, The Royal Mint to try to get some information. I was answered by a frosty voiced woman with a strong Welsh accent who told me something to the effect that I would need to submit a written request in triplicate on handmade paper, signed using the blood of a virgin and countersigned by the Pope. And that I would have to send it to Llantrisant which she would spell for me since I had probably never heard of it. I said there was no need to spell it since I was aware that Llantrisant Hill was where William Price had cremated his son. Instantly she became the most helpful person in the Universe.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM

The song is certainly older than 1993 'cos I remember singing along with it at LLantrisant FC back in the early 80's. I'm pretty sure that Mick Tems was the originator of the lyrics and that it had been written for a play.

Llantrisant is pronounced Ch(as in Loch)-lan-tri-sant
"ach a fyi" is an exclamation of disgust, roughly "get away"

The gates to Dr Prices house can still be seen as you go up the A407 to Pontypridd and the site of the cremation of his son stands on the side of LLantrisant Hill just to the west of the town.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:55 AM

Indeed, I remember Calennig singing it at the Waveney Folk Club back in 1981.


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:24 AM

No, Wandering Minstrel. "Ch" is "as in Loch". "LL" is 'shape your mouth/tongue for "L" and exhale/blow out.

Hopefully Mick will soon appear - in his Mudcat guise of "Dr Price".

sian


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Dame Pattie Smith EPNS
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:34 PM

The lyrics of Dr. Price were written by Meic Stephens, Literary Director of the Welsh Arts Council NOT Meic Stephens the rock/folk artist who is still gigging in Wales.
The statue of Dr. Price was erected in 1982 and Llantrisant Folk Club staged a day of music to commemorate it, alongside the Beating of the Bounds tradition of Llantrisant. I was the treasurer.
The words as in the DT seem to have been changed slightly in the folk process as happens. It has always been the folk club anthem.
Another verse has been added by Ian Woods, I think about 20 yrs ago:

Now it's in the square the statue stands,
Druidic symbols in his hands,
For centuries it will suffice,
To the memory of Dr. Price.

The Dame (The pretty half of Calennig)


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Subject: RE: 'Doctor Price' Song in DT -- history?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:59 PM

I was wondering how long it would be before we heard from either You or Mick Pat ! Thanks for the clarification .


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