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Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations

Haruo 13 Jun 02 - 03:53 AM
Genie 13 Jun 02 - 04:12 AM
Haruo 29 Jun 02 - 09:00 PM
Escamillo 30 Jun 02 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,JTT 30 Jun 02 - 02:48 AM
Haruo 30 Jun 02 - 03:13 AM
allie kiwi 30 Jun 02 - 03:37 AM
allie kiwi 30 Jun 02 - 03:41 AM
GUEST,JTT 30 Jun 02 - 04:34 AM
CapriUni 30 Jun 02 - 07:29 AM
bernil 30 Jun 02 - 10:03 AM
CapriUni 30 Jun 02 - 11:12 AM
Bill D 30 Jun 02 - 11:36 AM
Haruo 30 Jun 02 - 12:18 PM
Mr Happy 30 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM
Haruo 30 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM
Mr Happy 30 Jun 02 - 01:45 PM
Haruo 30 Jun 02 - 02:01 PM
Bill D 30 Jun 02 - 02:08 PM
Barbara 30 Jun 02 - 04:54 PM
Haruo 30 Jun 02 - 05:16 PM
Escamillo 30 Jun 02 - 10:53 PM
TeriLu 01 Jul 02 - 01:10 AM
Mr Happy 01 Jul 02 - 03:11 AM
Haruo 01 Jul 02 - 03:29 AM
Mr Happy 01 Jul 02 - 03:53 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Jul 02 - 05:11 AM
EBarnacle1 01 Jul 02 - 01:22 PM
GUEST,JTT 01 Jul 02 - 02:56 PM
Haruo 01 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM
AKS 02 Jul 02 - 03:12 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Jul 02 - 06:00 AM
Haruo 14 May 17 - 02:10 PM
Monique 14 May 17 - 05:19 PM
Mysha 14 May 17 - 05:54 PM
Haruo 14 May 17 - 06:39 PM
Thompson 15 May 17 - 02:04 PM
Monique 15 May 17 - 04:29 PM
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Subject: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 03:53 AM

I'm interested in knowing what versions may be running around out there in other languages of what in American English, at any rate, is called "The Itsy Bitsy Spider" (in DT; ignore "college" verses, they have only the tune in common, and in any event it's a rather generic tune). In Esperanto it's "Eta Petro Araneo" (Little Peter Spider) and I'm wondering if other languages give the arachnid a moniker like we do, or leave him/her anonymous like we do. Many thanks,

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Genie
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 04:12 AM

Liland, I don't know any translations, but there is an "Itsy Bitsy Spider" version of "The Mary Ellen Carter," which is great! I think it's in a thread here or maybe in the DT.

Genie


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:00 PM

Well, I finally found a Norwegian version that, sure enough, calls the spider Peter: Lilla Petter Edderkopp (interesting site, BTW, for multilingual children's songs). Since I learned the Esperanto version from a collection published in Denmark, my guess is the Danish may also have "Peter" or "Per" as the spider's name. Or maybe it was Esperanticized by a Norwegian.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Escamillo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 12:12 AM

Sorry, Spanish-language sites refer to the original lyrics in English classes for the little critters, but no translation.

Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 02:48 AM

Of course it's a little-known standard about this song that it's actually a coded subversive verse about Robert the Bruce, first sung in Scotland in the 16th century.


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 03:13 AM

Yes, "Peter" makes a good code name for "Robert" "the Bruce". Little-known indeed. Expatiate!

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: allie kiwi
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 03:37 AM

In New Zealand English (and I presume some others) it's Eensy weensy spider. That sounds like a scottish derivation to me? The 'Wee' part?

Allie


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: allie kiwi
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 03:41 AM

Oops, should actually have read the posts above mine about Robert the Bruce *wacks head* Yup, Scottish.

Allie


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 04:34 AM

Heh, heh, heh. Got ya there!


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: CapriUni
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 07:29 AM

Yes, "Peter" makes a good code name for "Robert" "the Bruce". Little-known indeed. Expatiate!

Please do!

I love little-known stories!


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: bernil
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:03 AM

Sorry I didn't really understand the question (I'm wondering if other languages give the arachnid a moniker like we do, or leave him/her anonymous like we do. Arachnid? Moniker?) but on the site Liland gave us there were other translations too, e.g. the Swedish one. Just click on the other languages. In The Swedish version he's got a fantasy name Imse Vimse Spindel (= Spider) that seems to liken the english one.

Berit


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: CapriUni
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 11:12 AM

Berit:

"Arachnid" is an animal in the spider family, including spiders, of course, but also mites, daddy-longlegs (which are not spiders), ticks and scorpians. The family got its name from a woman in Greek mythology named Arachne, who was a skilled weaver who dared to challenge the goddess Athena to a weaving contest. When it was overAthena acknowledged the mortal's skill, but the tapestry Arachne created mocked the Olympian gods, and in punishment for that, Athena turned her into a spider...

"Moniker" is a fancy word for name...

And I think that one of those "we"'s is a typo...


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 11:36 AM

Clinton Hammond posted the parody (to "Mary Ellen Carter) here awhile back.


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 12:18 PM

My apologies for the complicated and confusing way I worded the original post. CapriUni has clarified the terms well, but actually, both "we's" were intentional, just differently inclusive. The first "we" means "we singers in Esperanto, i.e. my fellow Esperantists and I", while the second one means "we singers in American English". Since I am a speaker/singer of both languages, both are correct, but their juxtaposition is confusing, especially to anyone who doesn't know my languages of birth and of choice; and I think it's less clear in type than it would be spoken face to face, too. Sorry. Oh, and "expatiate" means "To speak or write at length" (from dictionary.com; Word of the Day on 5 January 2000).

Second CapriUni's motion on the Bruce question, though I'm not sure but what GUEST JTT's preceding post (of 4:34 am) may indicate s/he was pulling our collective legs (which, counting the arachnid's, are quite a few) and there's no Bruce connection after all. "Little known standard" in the sense of "ad hoc invention"?

As for "Itsy bitsy" versus "Eensy weensy", I've heard it sung here (Seattle) both ways, never gave it any attention. I suppose "wee[nsy]" is of Scots origin come to think of it, but I think here they are in free variation.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM

as a child in north west england, i was taught 'incy wincy spider'


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM

The Mary Ellen Carter parody is really something, but what's the difference between the active Mudcat member named Clinton Hammond and the active Mudcat member named Clinton Hammond (Inactive)?

Incy-wincy makes sense in a dialect where you get cold fit because you're afraid you might fall into a pit bog too wide to lip across, and die because no one heard your scrims, Mr. Happy. Is that the way you folks talk?

But here's an odd thing. I am sure that I've heard "Eensy weensy spider", but I think in any other context I would expect "Teensy weensy" (the diminutive of "Teeny weeny"). And what about "Teeny-tiny"? Somebody oughta just develop a search engine smart enough to search all options in cases like this. Are you listening, Google™?

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 01:45 PM

li,

everyone everywhere has some kind of accent or dialect.

in the little folk group i'm in, anne's from liverpool, jim's from belfast, i'm from chester.

i can't hear how i speak, they can hear me. i can hear their accents, but they say they can't hear their own ones but i do

so, sorry i can't answer your q about how us folks speak


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 02:01 PM

I know what you mean about not being able to hear one's own accent; I guess what I should have asked is whether in your dialect (I don't mean your folk group's speech, but the dialect you grew up in where "incy wincy" was the normal way to sing about a small spider), your native dialect, whether "pit" and "peat" are homophones, i.e. pronounced the same. If so, then "incy wincy" would be a very reasonable way for it to be spelt (or spelled, as we write it over here). Vowels are subject to modifications much akin to the Folk Process.

In American English there are some dialects where "marry merry Mary" is a series of three identically pronounced words, others where each is completely distinct from the others, and still other dialects where two are identical and the third distinct. In my own speech there is an audible difference if I speak very slowly, but at normal conversational speeds the three sound alike.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 02:08 PM

of course, Gooogle does have *wildcard options to do searches based on partial spellings, and the are busy experimenting all the time...


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Barbara
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 04:54 PM

I'll need Andres' help here, as I don't quite remember it but there's a Spanish version that goes:
La aran~a pequenita
Subio, subio, subio
Calle (caje?) la lluvia
Y todo lo llevo
Revuelve el sol, y (it all dries out -- todo lo seco?)
Y la aran~a pequenita
Subio, subio, subio.

It's written in the margin of one of our RUS, and I couldn't find the right one off hand. Maybe a Spanish speaker can supply the rest. Also need the tilda over the "n" instead of next to it.
In this version, anyway, it's an anonymous little spider.

Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 05:16 PM

La araña pequeñita

¡Muchísimas gracias, Barbara! Using your incipit on Google I've found this version on the web which differs in a couple places (esp. "vino" instead of "calle"):

La Araña pequeñita
subió, subió, subió.
vino la lluvia
y se la llevó.
Salió el sol
y todo lo secó,
y la araña pequeñita
subió, subió, subió.

¿Qué pienses, abrazador Escamillo? ;-)

Okay, so, I'm still hoping for Danish, and also eager to learn of other versions. Japanese? Russian? Swahili? Somali? Hebrew? Samoan? I'm insatiable. Like a spider.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Escamillo
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:53 PM

This last version makes sense very well. The other must be "Cayó la lluvia" (not calle):

Vino la lluvia = the rain came

Cayó la lluvia = the rain has fallen, or fell

Un abrazo arácnido - Andrés :)


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: TeriLu
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 01:10 AM

I did some research a couple years back on this song because I use it as part of an hour-long pre-k/kindergarten program called "Spidersilk". (I work for a travelling children's museum) Anyway, my research came up with this song being by anon. (I'll bet a kid)in England, as the Incy,Wincy Spider, evolving into the Eensy Weensy Spider, and finally, the American version, the Itsy Bitsy Spider. I think one of the things I read said it had been around since the 1700s. Another interesting fact I found out- Little Miss Muffet, a real girl,was terrorized by her father, who would throw spiders at her, put them in her porridge, etc. Sick, huh? And by the way, the Mary Carter parody was written by Bob Blue, a wonderful writer of not-always children's songs. He is a member as I am, of CMN, ,Children's Music Network, a spin-off of People's Music Network. Nice seeing Jeri Mudcatter after 29 yrs at Old Songs.

Peace, Terilu


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:11 AM

li,

the way i speak doesn't include 'pit' & 'peat' being pronounced homophonetically.

my perception of this type of received pronunciation is more akin to s. african english.

going back to topic, i asked my elder sister, who's 70+, where our family learned 'incy wincy spider' from.

she said during ww2, there were a lot of foreign armed services personnel stationed in our local area, including many americans. she thought an american friend was the source of this rhyme because she remembered him reciting it to herself and my brother who was about 2 at the time.

if this info is correct, if 'incy wincy' is really from the states, then its 'think again time' as regards your hypothesis.

hope this is useful?

cheers

mr h


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:29 AM

Thanks, Mr. Happy; useful I'm not sure; but indubitably topical. And TeriLu's research seems to support the notion that "incy, wincy" was the original spelling. Do you use (indeed, would you even understand) the term "incy, wincy" anywhere other than in this song?

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:53 AM

li,

as a toddler, it must have been explained to me that 'incy wincy' meant 'little'

no i don't use the term at all in any other context.

mr h


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 05:11 AM

Re: the Norwegian version "Little Peter Edderkopp" my dictionary gives the equivalent
attercop, obsolete or dialect a spider: an ill-natured person. [O.E. ator= poison, and (perhaps) cop=head, or copp= cup]
I looked this up because IIRC Tolkien claims (in The Hobbit) that spiders hate to be taunted with the name 'Attercop'
incy wincy isn't in my dictionary, but clearly belongs to a series of exaggerated diminutive forms e.g. "An itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini"

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 01:22 PM

About 25 years ago, I picked up a book of Jutland folksongs. Included in it was a toast, sung to the tune of "Lille Peder Adderkop." With help of my hosts, I translated it to:

Here's to all the good folk who have enough to eat, Here's to all the poor ones who haven't any meat; Here's to all the lucky ones with no reason to complain; And we'll sing for sunshine on a cloudy day.

I have used this over the years. Most of the people who have heard it have asked for the words.


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 02:56 PM

Incey Wincey in Ireland, anyway.

The Robert the Bruce story - try googling for "robert the bruce" and "spider", but it's something like this: the Scots king Robert the Bruce was hiding in an attic from the marauding English, and was in deep despair. He'd lost six battles (?) Then he saw a spider try to swing itself across the trapdoor and fail six times, but it succeeded the seventh time - and he got his courage back and himself won the seventh battle. Or maybe it was eight and nine. Whatever.


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM

So what's in the jar? Whisky or whiskey? (Bettin' on the latter.)

Thanks for the Bruce yarn, JTT.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: AKS
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 03:12 AM

Here's the Finnish one. The tune used here is different (from the one in DT) but the meter is the same. I don't know how old it is, but was generally known by the time I started school in 1961.

The first verse is quite literally the same as the English, the second is about the ant carrying straws to build the heap, the third about the grasshopper playing the fiddle, the fourt - the least common one, not surprisingly - about the mosquito/gnat buzzing at sunset, and the last one about the spider still weaving the web after the sun has set.

HÄMÄHÄKKI

Hämä-hämähäkki kiipes langalle
tuli sade rankka hämähäkin vei
aurinko armas kuivas satehen
hämä-hämähäkki kiipes uudelleen

Muura-muurahainen kortta kuljettaa
ahkerasti aina työssä ahertaa
valmis on kohta keko komea
muura-muurahainen kortta kuljettaa

Heinä-heinäsirkka soittaa viuluaan
ruohikossa hyppii sinne tänne vaan
pieni sinikello käypi uinumaan
heinä-heinäsirkka soittaa viuluaan

Sääski-sääski pieni surraa parvessaan
kuluu suvipäivä siinä touhussaan
illan varjot saapuu siivet kimaltaa
sääski-sääski pieni surraa parvessaan

Hämä-hämähäkki kutoo verkkojaan
pieni lintu lensi siihen katsomaan
aurinko laski kauas vuorten taa
hämä-hämähäkki kutoo verkkojaan

AKS


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Subject: RE: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 06:00 AM

Liland: So, what's in the jar?
For preference Whisky, but as the song is Irish it would have to be Whiskey.
With all the additives put in food being given 'E numbers' in Europe, I prefer my whisky with no additional Es!

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 14 May 17 - 02:10 PM

This song came up again in the Duolingo Esperanto Learners Facebook group yesterday, and today Lee Miller posted a stanza of the Esperanto version I was looking for lo these 15 years ago...

Eta Petro arane' grimpas sur la mur'
Venas pluvego pelas Petron for.
Suno brilas, seka estas ĝi
Eta Petro arane' grimpas grimpas pli ...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Monique
Date: 14 May 17 - 05:19 PM

Haruo, here are the versions we have on Mama Lisa's World so far. Linking to them all would take ages but you can find them all.

China: I蜘蛛
Finland :Hämä-hämä-häkki -
France: L'araignée Gypsy -
Germany: Eine Kleine Spinne
Israel:Hebrew - על הקיר טיפס לו עכביש קטן
Lebanon Arabic - عنكبوت النونو طلع فوق السطح
Mexico: Itzi, bitzi araña -
Mexico: La pequeña araña
Netherlands : Hansje Pansje Kevertje
Norway: Lille Petter Edderkopp
Philippines: (Ilongo) - And Dutay Nga Damang
Philippines: (Tagalog) - Maliliit na gagamba -
Philippines: (Visayan) - Ang gagmay nga lawa -
Romania : Micutul Păianjen
Spain: La araña chiquitita
Sweden: Imse vimse spindel
Thailand:แมงมุมลาย
USA: The Itsy Bitsy Spider


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Mysha
Date: 14 May 17 - 05:54 PM

Hi,

"I'm wondering if other languages give the arachnid a moniker ... or leave him/her anonymous ..."

A bit hard to answer for Dutch: Hansje Pansje Kevertje obviously has a name, Hansje, or Hansje Pansje. But since he's a beetle, rather than a spider, he's an insect, rather than an arachnid.

Bye,
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Haruo
Date: 14 May 17 - 06:39 PM

Lee subsequently posted his own translation, which is arguably an improvement.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Thompson
Date: 15 May 17 - 02:04 PM

Ah, Monique, you're in ahead of me with
L'araignée Gypsy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Itsy-bitsy spider translations
From: Monique
Date: 15 May 17 - 04:29 PM

I have a story about the French version. We posted it on Mama Lisa's World some time in 2008. In Jan. 2012, I got an email from a lady saying she'd written, composed and registered it in 1961 along with other kids songs and she'd like us to give credits to her on our page, which we did. After I sent her a link to Peggy Seeger's songbook "American Folk Songs for Children" and a book published in 1910 where the song is mentioned as "classical" (then more or less "old") showing the song had existed in English for soooooooome time, she was amazed and she assured she'd never heard of it before, she told me all the when-where... she'd written it and I felt she was sincere. Le mystère reste entier.


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