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ADD: Viva la Quinta Brigada (Christy Moore & not)

DigiTrad:
CONTINENTAL CEILIDH
DELIRIUM TREMENS
VIVA LA QUINCE BRIGADA


Related threads:
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GUEST,JTT 13 Jun 02 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,JTT 13 Jun 02 - 11:13 AM
Sorcha 13 Jun 02 - 11:15 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jun 02 - 11:25 AM
Sorcha 13 Jun 02 - 11:27 AM
masato sakurai 13 Jun 02 - 11:55 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jun 02 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,Philippa 13 Jun 02 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Philippa 13 Jun 02 - 01:29 PM
Escamillo 13 Jun 02 - 02:08 PM
Gareth 13 Jun 02 - 02:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jun 02 - 03:56 PM
Chicken Charlie 13 Jun 02 - 04:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jun 02 - 06:05 PM
Chicken Charlie 13 Jun 02 - 07:22 PM
toadfrog 13 Jun 02 - 07:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jun 02 - 07:59 PM
GUEST 13 Jun 02 - 08:46 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 13 Jun 02 - 08:55 PM
Escamillo 14 Jun 02 - 12:26 AM
Wilfried Schaum 14 Jun 02 - 02:41 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jun 02 - 06:43 AM
Gareth 14 Jun 02 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,Jaramá 14 Jun 02 - 08:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jun 02 - 09:17 PM
Art Thieme 15 Jun 02 - 07:00 PM
Gareth 15 Jun 02 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,JTT 15 Jun 02 - 08:17 PM
MikeOQuinn 10 Jan 03 - 05:00 AM
Susanne (skw) 10 Jan 03 - 08:32 PM
Big Tim 11 Jan 03 - 03:16 AM
belfast 11 Jan 03 - 07:45 AM
belfast 11 Jan 03 - 07:53 AM
Big Tim 11 Jan 03 - 02:34 PM
Susanne (skw) 11 Jan 03 - 05:41 PM
Compton 11 Jan 03 - 07:32 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Apr 06 - 01:03 AM
Wilfried Schaum 27 Apr 06 - 03:34 AM
Wolfgang 28 Apr 06 - 01:12 PM
GeoffLawes 06 May 08 - 07:51 PM
GeoffLawes 06 May 08 - 08:01 PM
Joe_F 06 May 08 - 08:29 PM
Leadfingers 06 May 08 - 08:33 PM
Padre 06 May 08 - 10:24 PM
Joe Offer 06 May 08 - 11:14 PM
Joe Offer 07 May 08 - 01:07 AM
GeoffLawes 07 May 08 - 08:20 AM
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GeoffLawes 08 May 08 - 04:16 AM
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Subject: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 11:12 AM

Anyone got the words of this - and, more importantly, a translation?


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 11:13 AM

Oh yeah, and if I want to use "verde" as an adjective with "Brigada", does it change to "verda" or something?


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 11:15 AM

English and tab here,
Spanish lyrics here.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 11:25 AM

Of course they aren't quite the same songs, though the later one is built on the foundations of the earlier one.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 11:27 AM

Well, yea.


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Subject: Lyr Add: VIVA LA QUINTA BRIGADA (Christy Moore)
From: masato sakurai
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 11:55 AM

MP3 recording of "Viva la quinta brigada" (different version of "Ay Carmela") is HERE.

Christy Moore's version:

VIVA LA QUINTA BRIGADA
(C.Moore / Bal Music Ltd.)

Around the time I saw the light of morning
A comradeship of heroes was laid
From every corner of the world came sailing
The Fifth International Brigade.

They came to stand beside the Spanish people
To try and stem the rising fascist tide
Franco's allies were the powerful and wealthy
Frank Ryan's men came from the other side.

Even the olives were bleeding
As the battle for Madrid it thundered on
Truth and love against the force of evil
Brotherhood against the fascist clan.

Viva la Quinta Brigada,
No Pasaran, the pledge that made them fight
Adelante was the cry around the hillside
Let us all remember them tonight.

Bob Hilliard was a Church of Ireland pastor
Form Killarney across the Pyrenees he came
From Derry came a brave young Christian Brother
And side by side they fought and died in Spain.

Tommy Woods age seventeen died in Cordoba
With Na Fianna he learned to hold his gun
From Dublin to the Villa del Rio
He fought and died beneath the Spanish sun.
Viva la Quinta Brigada,
No Pasaran, the pledge that made them fight
Adelante was the cry around the hillside
Let us all remember them tonight.

Many Irishmen heard the call of Franco
Joined Hitler and Mussolini too
Propaganda from the pulpit and newspapers
Helped O'Duffy to enlist his crew.

The call came from Maynooth, "support the facists"
The men of cloth had failed again
When the Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire
As they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain.

Viva la Quinta Brigada,
No Pasaran, the pledge that made them fight
Adelante was the cry around the hillside
Let us all remember them tonight.

This song is a tribute to Frank Ryan
Kit Conway and Dinny Coady too
Peter Daly, Charlie Regan and Hugh Bonar
Though many died I can but name a few.

Danny Boyle, Blaser-Brown and Charlie Donnelly
Liam Tumilson and Jim Straney from the Falls
Jack Nalty, Tommy Patton and Frank Conroy
Jim Foley, Tony Fox and Dick O'Neill.

Viva la Quinta Brigada,
No Pasaran, the pledge that made them fight
Adelante was the cry around the hillside
Let us all remember them tonight.

Viva la Quinta Brigada,
No Pasaran, the pledge that made them fight
Adelante was the cry around the hillside
Let us all remember them tonight.

SOURCE: HERE

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:35 PM

"Illegal combatants"


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:23 PM


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:29 PM

Both songs - and they are different songs with the same title and very closely related subjects, not original and translation - have been posted before. One is on a thread called Movement Songs, the other at a thread discussing Christy Moore's authorship of the English language song.
The link Sorcha gives to the English language song doesn't credit Moore as it should.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 02:08 PM

I've just seen this thread. It seems that you need no further help, but if you do, please tell me.

Un abrazo - Andrés


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Subject: Lyr Add: LONG LIVE THE 15TH BRIGADE / VIVA LA...
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 02:52 PM

"LONG LIVE THE 15TH BRIGADE", I lifted the text from the Socialist Song Book, Click Here

This also includes other classics of the Spanish Civil War such as the Four Generals, but anyway – Long live the 15th Brigade

Long live our 15th Brigade, boys,
Rumbala, rumbala, rum-ba-la.
(Repeat all verses twice)

For her name is grand and glorious
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela!

'Gainst the Moors we aim our rifles,
Rumbala, rumbala, rum-ba-la.

Death to the hirelings of the Fascists,
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela,

We have only one desire,
Rumbala, rumbala, rum-ba-la.

Forever end the fascist terror,
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela!

At Jarama we are standing,
Rumbala, rumbala, rum-ba-la
.

And we have no planes above us,
Not a tank, nor any cannons,
Ay Manuela!

We have left the Spanish trenches,
Rumbala, rumbala, rum-ba-la.

To fight the fascists where we find them,
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela!

Spanish Version

Viva la quince brigada,
Rúmbala, rúmbala, rúm-ba-la,

(Bepeat all verses twice)

Que se ha cubierta de gloria
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela!

Luchamos contra los moros
Rúmbala, rúmbala, rúm-ba-la,
Mercenarios y fascistas
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela!

Solo es nuestro deseo
Rúmbala, rúmbala, rúm-ba-la,

Acabar con el fascismo
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela!

En los frentes de Jarama,
Rúmbala, rúmbala, rúm-ba-la,

No tenemos ni aviones
Ni tanques, ni canones,
Ay Manuela!

Ya salimos de Espana
Rúmbala, rúmbala, rúm-ba-la,
Para luchar en otros frentes
Ay Manuela, ay Manuela

I suspect from the context of the website I found this on this varient may have more to do with the political aspirations of the POUM and the 4th International, than any actual field collection.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 03:56 PM

It seems that you need no further help Well, there's still GUEST,JTT's query about verde and verda, Escamillo.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 04:06 PM

Guest--

Verde is both masc. and fem. Only the adjectives that end in -o for masc. need to change to -a for the fem.

tierra verde; dinero verde tierra mucha; dinero mucho

But there are exceptions to the -o is masc. -a is fem. rule, e.g. all body parts are fem. even if the name ends in o. "Levante las manos" is correct for "Put up your hands."

Chicken Carlito


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 06:05 PM

And should it be quinta or quince?


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 07:22 PM

Quinta is "fifth." Quince is "fifteen." Or a tree, but not in Spain, or if it is, I'm sure they call it something else.

Carlito de Pollos


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 07:35 PM

The Fifteenth Brigade included the English, Washington and Lincoln, and McKenzie-Papineau Battalions. So the "Hurrah for the Fifteenth Brigade" version is what Anglo-Saxons in the International Column (Communist) sang. The more pompous one sounds like an official version.

Most of those songs had multiple versions. An anarchist, who unfortunately could not carry a tune, once sang me a version of Si mi queires that began:

"When the haliputa Franco dies, and you pass his tomb, always remember to spit!" and goes on:

When you go to Barcelona
The first thing you see
Is the Communist heirarchy sitting down in a cafe.
They have blankets, and nice, warm coats,
But here at the front you can see our ass!


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 07:59 PM

So "Quince" is what it should be, since the Connolly Column would have been part of the 15th Brigade.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 08:46 PM

And, if you look for "Quince" in DigiTrad, you get both songs. Same title.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 08:55 PM

Quince (arbol y fruto) is membrillo. Not pertinent to this thread, but mentioned by "Carlito de pollos."
Francisco (always Pancho in Mexico)


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Escamillo
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 12:26 AM

El Pollo Carlitos is right. Adjectives ended in "e" don't have a gender. As to the Quince or Quinta subject: the Fifteenth is indeed the Quince. But it is incorrect to say "La Quince Brigada", as well as it would be incorrect in English "The Fifteen Brigade". Instead, it should be "La Decimoquinta Brigada". However, this would not fit in the verses. Apparently the authors have taken a poetic license and wrote "Viva la Quince Brigada", after all, they were killing people and there was no time for linguistic refinements.

Un abrazo - Andrés, le toreró de Granada

(*) Curiosity: Escamillo, Carmen's lover in Bizet's opera CARMEN, introduces himself with that phrase (Je suis Escamillo, toreró de Granada) which is a hilarious deformation of "torero de Granada", spoken by a French-speaking baritone in the role of a Spanish bullfighter.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 02:41 AM

This song happens to have several versions, as usual with so many folk songs, depending on the different situations and units. The original (?) song (The Carmela) I heard in Tunis sung by a pretty Spanish student in 1969. It runs like in Sorcha's source, but starting with "el Exercito del Ebro". So also on a disc with songs of the Republican Army recorded by a French team during the war and published about 1937/38.

Wilfried


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:43 AM

Quince is Fifteen.
Decimoquinta is Fifteenth.

Which still leaves open whether Quince or Quinta is the preferred way to abbreviate it in a song...

I suppose one way would be to decide that it's Qunce for the older song and Quinta for the newer one?


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Gareth
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:59 PM

Unfortunately, where Politics is concerned, and the Spanish Civil War is politics, tunes and spontanueus songs get hijacked.

But I think that Potatoe Jones, and the crew of the "Marie Llewellyn" deserve a better memorial than a gravestone at Kefnig Hill.

Gareth ( Master and Owner of the Sloop " Marie Llewellyn")


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST,Jaramá
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 08:59 PM

Would a native speaker of Spanish confuse "quince" and "quinta" ? I do not think so.
This hymn of abuse has all the hallmarks of an outsider with his own agenda.
The combatants of the First and Second World Wars have made their peace. The Spanish have made their own internal peace . Why is it that foreigners seek to keep alive the bloodletting of a civil war which was none of their business in the first instance.
Go away and leave us alone.
Jaramá


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 09:17 PM

Christy Moore's song is much more about Ireland than it is about Spain really.

There's peace in Ireland between the children of those who fought on both sides in Spain's Civil War, and even of those who fought on both sides in Ireland's one back in the 20s.

And please God in time the same will be true of the one we're still trying to get out from under.

And all that is part of what Christy's song is about.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 07:00 PM

I would like to jump in to suggest a fine book I recently read. The author is Milton Wolff, the ninth and last commander of the Lincoln and Wahington Battalions in Spain. (He is now the leader of the Veterans Of The Abraham Lincoln Brigade.)

The book is ANOTHER HILL. It is written as an autobiographical novel. Published by the University Of Illinois Press. www.press.illinois.edu I, like Ring Lardner Jr., felt that it was "the best book on the American involvement in Spain I've ever read." Please, do not let the fact that this is called a fictional-autobiography deter you from reading this. Our government in the U.S. called them "premature anti-fascists" and discredited all those that returned. But Mr. Wolff manages, in his book, to give just about every side of the many coins in circulation in that sad war. It isn't one sided at all !!! I can't say that forcefully enough.

I really do recommend it.

Art Thieme

www.press.illinois.edu


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Gareth
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 08:00 PM

Guest Jaramá . This entire thread is an attempt to discuss matters in a historical context. So whats your problem ?

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 08:17 PM

Thanks for those who answered my grammatical and translation question; I was looking for a good pun, and with your help, found one.

By the way, if this isn't a private row, maybe yiz'd be so kind as to allow me in?

Peace in Ireland? Hah! The other night a bunch of men with baseball bats broke down the door of a home in which a 15-year-old boy was living. They chased him up to his bedroom, where they beat him with the baseball bats, bruising him all over, and breaking an arm and a leg.

I don't call that peace.

I don't know which particular brand of sectarian bigots claiming to be the law in their community these were, but it's not any kind of peacemaking I want in my home.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: MikeOQuinn
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 05:00 AM

Wow... a re-awakening of this thread after a really long time.

I just stopped by to see if I could find the lyrics to this song (the one posted by Masato), which I have a recording of by Carlos Nuñez on his CD Os Amores Libres (Our Free Loves, Galician dialect, if I'm not mistaken). Speaking Spanish (working slowly on Gaelic - not enough teachers in this area), I found the idea of the Irish/Spanish song to be intriguing, and one that I just *had* to sing.

Couple of notes on translations, though, just in case anyone's still interested...

The Fifth International Brigade would, indeed, be the Quinta Brigada Internacional. So if you are singing the song posted above by Masato, quinta is the word you're looking for. (wow... lots of typefaces used in there...)

As for the question of verde or verda, which has mostly been answered already, while the word verde is used to indicate color, verdo and verda are used to indicate truth (opposites of falso).

I don't know if anyone's posted the translation of the chorus lines, so here they are:

¡Viva la Quinta Brigada!
"¡No pasaran!", the pledge that made them fight
"¡Adelante!" was the cry around the hillside,
Let us all remember them tonight

¡Long live the Fifth Brigade!
"¡They will not pass!", the pledge that made them fight
"¡Charge!" was the cry around the hillside,
Let us all remember them tonight

Some of that is taken more loosely, so as to give a better idea of the context, but that should be pretty acurate.

Best wishes, all.
-J


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 08:32 PM

Which gives me a chance to ask: Toadfrog has explained about the fifteenth international brigade - but who were the fifth? An exclusively Irish unit? Google doesn't yield anything, but Christy Moore definitely refers to the fifth international brigade, so they must have existed!


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 03:16 AM

MacEoin's IRA history, page 388, speaks only of the "International Brigade" and states "reports were received that on February 6 [1937] of the deaths of four men of the International Brigade, serving on the Jarama and Cordova front, south of Madrid. Their names were: Dan Boyle of Belfast, Frank Conroy of Kildare, Bill Beattie of Belfast and John Meehan of Galway".

Bell's IRA history refers to "the James Connolly Battalion of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade"..."ultimately some four hundred Irishmen, most of them old IRA men, would make their way to Spain and the International Brigades...42 were killed, 12 captured, including Frank Ryan, 114 wounded. Their record was in stark contrast to O'Duffy's Brigade, which fought only two brief actions: the first with a Nationalist unit from the Canary Islands resulted in the only battle deaths - two....most of the time was spent on a quiet sector of the line".


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: belfast
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:45 AM

In the book "Christy Moore: One Voice" Christy gives the title of the song as "Viva La Quinte Brigada" and tells us that he got the info for the song from "The Connolly Column" by Mick O'Riordan. He does not tell us where he got the word "quinte". My guess is that back in the 60's he heard the earlier version of the song in England from, another guess, the Ian Campbell Folk Group and misheard or misremembered the title. His song does refer, in English, to the Fifteenth Brigade in which the Irish volunteers fought.

At the end of each thread here there is a link to a translation thingummy. I am unable to vouch for these translations but if they are correct the only phrase that makes grammatical sense, "viva la quinta brigada", does not make historical sense.

fifteenth international brigade: décimo quinta brigada internacional
fifth international brigade: quinto brigada internacional
viva la quince brigada: the fifteen brigade lives
viva la quinta brigada: the fifth brigade lives
viva la quinte brigada: brigade lives quinte


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: belfast
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:53 AM

And I've just reread this line two posts back - Christy Moore definitely refers to the fifth international brigade, so they must have existed!

I hope and trust, Susanne, that this remark is meant ironically, satirically. You do know, don't you, that Christy is Irish.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:34 PM

I wonder though, who were those two Irish "fascists" who lost their lives? Not even worthy of having their names recorded? They fought for a cause they (not I) believed in, who can ask for more?                                                               

In my lifetime (born after the end of the SCW, just!) the Catholic Church in Ireland, and probably all around the world, was still praying for "the conversion of Russia" - a statement of fact, not a criticism.

One thing is certain: a guy that we have been discussing on another thread would, undoubtedly, have supported the "fascists": Sean South.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 05:41 PM

belfast, your guess may be more likely than mine, of course. Still, no need to do down the Irish! :-))) I just thought, if no one referred to the discrepancy I'd have to be VERY clear to get a reaction ... Thanks for explanation and translation - I'll put them with the song.


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Subject: RE: Help: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Compton
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:32 PM

I think I have a steam driven L.P by Birmingham band of long ago, Ian Campbell Folk Group, (Dad of Ali) with swarbrick, etc...where they sang the lot in Spanish. Didn't understand a word of it until now.


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Subject: LYR. ADD: VIVA LA QUINTA BRIGADA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 01:03 AM

Sorcha gave a link to the Spanish "Viva la quinta brigada"(var. of "Ay Carmela") but it has changed: http://lacucaracha.info/scw/music/lyrics/quinta_brigada.htm
Viva la quinta brigada

Based on the old song of the partisans who fought against Napoleon's army in 1808. "Ay Carmela," thread 90954: Ay Carmela


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:34 AM

There are two brigades documented by their songs, the quinta = 5th and the quince=15th.
Q just gave the link to the 5th brigade song.
Here is the link to the 15th brigade song
Both songs have some similar stanzas; nothing new in the history of folk songstransformed for special units or events.
Both songs are sung to the tune of the Ebro Army (the Carmela).
To answer future possible questions: There also is a 5th regiment, sung to the tune of the old Spanish song, or dance, "el Vito" (St Vitus' dance)

More informations about units of the Spanish Republican Army may be found here: Foro por la memoria". Use the search box, upper right.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Viva la Quinta Brigada
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 01:12 PM

Both songs may even be identical (with the usual variations) and about the same brigade, Wilfried.

The 15th brigade (altogether) was the 5th (international) brigade.

Look my longer post in the other thread for such a speculation.

Does anyone know more?

Wolfgang
    Threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: Viva La Quinta Brigada not Christy Moore
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:51 PM

Can anyone who knows about Spanish folk music tell me whether there was a version of the traditional Ay Carmela! song about the FIFTEENTH International Brigade that was actually sung DURING the Spanish Civil War. There is great confusion and masses of speculation surrounding this song on Mudcat and in other places. I don't want to add to the confusion with this new post and I don't want to be rude, but anything about the completely different Christy Moore song with the same title,VIVA LA QUINCA BRIGADA,is not relevent and has many Mudcat threads devoted to it already.

From what I have so far read on the song/s, I know that there was a version of the Ay Carmela! song written and sung in 1936 in praise of the Fifth ( Quinta) Brigade. I know that since the war finished a song in praise of the Fifteenth (Quinca) Brigade has been sung, somtimes in connection with International Brigade re-unions. The question is 'Was VIVA LA QUINCA BRIGADA sung while the Spanish Civil war was still being fought or was it a song adapted and adopted after the war?
Regards, Geoff


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Subject: RE: Viva La Quinta Brigada not Christy Moore
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 06 May 08 - 08:01 PM

I have just looked at the title that I gave this thread and of course I have already started the process of confusion because I put Quinta when I meant to put Quinca. Perhaps it illustrates my suspicion that the provenance of this song and perhaps its history owes a lot to the vagueness of English speakers dealing with Spanish.


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Subject: RE: Viva La Quinta Brigada not Christy Moore
From: Joe_F
Date: 06 May 08 - 08:29 PM

I do not know Spanish, but I know the song, and I believe the word is actually "quince".


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Subject: RE: Viva La Quinta Brigada not Christy Moore
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 May 08 - 08:33 PM

I know The Dubliners did ONE version on their album 'Forty Years' - Thats has 'Viva la Quinte Brigada' as the title . IF thats any help . And on 'We Shall Overcome' - Pete seeger has Vive La Quince Brigada !


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Subject: RE: Viva La Quinta Brigada not Christy Moore
From: Padre
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:24 PM

There was/is a Folkways album called 'Songs of the Spanish Civil War,' recorded at the time the war was going on in the 1930s. One side is Pete Seeger and some other singers (Almanacs?) doing a number of songs including The 15th Brigade. The other side has Ernst Busch singing (live from the front I believe) 'Six Songs for Democracy' including The Peat Bog Soldiers and Hans Beimler, and at one point the sound of gunfire can be heard in the background.

Padre


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Subject: ADD: Viva la Quince Brigada(Seeger recording)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:14 PM

Viva la Quince Brigada
Viva la quince brigada,
Rùmbala, Rùmbala, Rùmbala
(Repeat)

Que se ha cubierta de gloria,
Ay Mañuela, ay Mañuela!
(Repeat)

Luchamos contra los moros,
Rùmbala, Rùmbala, Rùmbala
(Repeat)

Mercenarios y fascistas,
Ay Mañuela, ay Mafluela!
(Repeat)

Solo es nuestro deseo,
Rùmbala, Rùmbala, Rùmbala
(Repeat)

Acabar con el fascismo,
Ay Mañuela, ay Mañuela!
(Repeat)

En los frentes de Jarama,
Rùmbala, Rùmbala, Rùmbala
(Repeat)

No tenemos ni aviones
Ni tanques, ni caioñes, Ay Mañuela!
(Repeat)

Ya salimos de España,
Rùmbala, Rùmbala, Rùmbala
(Repeat)

Para Juchar en otros frentes,
Ay Mañuela, ay Mañuela!
(Repeat)
Long live our Fifteenth Brigade, boys
Rumbala, rumbala, rumbala
(Repeat)

For her name is grand and glorious,
Ay Manula, Ay Manuela!
(Repeat)

'Gainst the Moors we aim our rifles,
Rumbala, rumbala, rumbala
(Repeat)

Death to the hirelings of the Fascists
Ay Manuela, Ay Manuela!
(Repeat)

We have only one desire,
Rumbala, rumbala, rumbala
(Repeat)

Forever end the Fascist terror,
Ay Manuela, Ay Manuela!
(Repeat)

At Jararna we are standing
Rumbala, rumbala, rumbala
(Repeat)

And we have no planes above us,
Not a tank, nor any cannons, Ay Manuela!
(Repeat)

We have left the Spanish trenches,
Rumbala, rumbala, rumbala
(Repeat)

To fight the Fascists where we find them,
Ay Manula, Ay Manuela!
(Repeat)


Lyrics from the liner notes from the 1961 Folkways album, Songs of the Spanish Civil War (originally issued by Asch Records in 1940 as Songs of the Lincoln Battalion
    Notes: La Quince Brigade (15th Brigade), more frequently knowan by its haunting refrain, "Ay Manuela," derives from an old Spanish folk song. (cf. People's Song Book, p. 42). Like "Quinto Regimiento and "Spanish Marching Song" (Si mi quieres escribir"), it was most frequently sung on the march.


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Subject: ADD: El Quinto Regimiento
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:07 AM

Here's something to add to the confusion:

El Quinto Regimiento

El diez y ocho dia de julio
En el patio de un convento,
El pueblo madrileño
Fondo el Quinto Regimiento.

Chorus:
Venga, jaleo, jaleo -
Sueño de una ametralladora,
Y Franco se va paseo
Y Franco se va paseo.
Con Lister Campesino,
Con Galan y Modesto,
Con el comandante Carlos,
No hay miliciano con miedo.
(Repeat Chorus)

Son los cuatro batallones
Que Madrid estan defendiendo;
Se va lo mejor de España,
La flor mas roja del pueblo.
(Repeat Chorus)

Con el quinto, quinto, quinto,
Con el Quinto Regimiento,
Madre, yo me voy al frente
Porque quiero entrar en fuego.
(Repeat Chorus)
THE FIFTH REGIMENT

On the eighteenth of July
In a lovely Spanish patio,
Madrid's anti-fascist heroes
Formed the Quinto Regimiento.

Chorus:
Come and be happy, be happy (or Venga, jaleo, jaleo)
Hear that avenging machine gun
It will be the end of Franco!
It will be the end of Franco!
With Lister and Campesino,
With Galan and with Modesto,
With the great commander Carlos,
There is none who fears the battle.
(Repeat Chorus)

In the four heroic batallions
Madrid so bravely defending
Fighting in Spain's fiercest battles
Are the bravest of every village.
(Repeat Chorus)

With the quinto, quinto, quinto
With the Quinto Regimiento
For the front, madre, I'm leaving
For I, too, would kill the Fascists
(Repeat Chorus)



Notes:
    QUINTO REGIMIENTO (Fifth Regiment). The Fifth Regiment was formed by the Spanish Communist Party in July, 1936, the first month of Franco's rebellion, and by December was the backbone of the defense of Madrid with 70,000 men. Other political parties (Socialist, Anarchist, Republican) also recruited their own membership but these early, purely political units were broken up and reorganized in 1937 and put under unified command. (Cf. Lift Every Voice., ed. Irwin Silber, NY, People's Artists, Inc., 1953). This song is also a melodic composite, the first part being an Andalusian fo1k-song, "El Vito," the second, beginning with "Venga jaleo..." derives from a tune called "El Contrabandista." The words of course, are new and were supplied at the time and place, but the composite may have been known in Spain earlier, with an older set of lyrics.


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Subject: RE: ADD: Viva la Quinta Brigada (Christy Moore & not)
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:20 AM

Thanks for the notes from the Asch Recording of Pete Seeger singing Viva La Quince Brigade Joe. The original issue date of the Seeger recording, being 1940, is very close to the war but is, of course, post war.

The notes saying 'it was most frequently sung on the march.', suggest that the song was actually sung during the war which ended on April 1st 1939 and as Padre, and others on other Mudcat threads, suggest some of the songs on the Asch record were recorded in Spain while the war was still going on.However, Viva La Quince Brigada as sung by Pete Seeger on the Asch record was not recorded in Spain as the war went on.

However, I still have a suspicion that the song praising the XV Brigade was a post civil war variation of a song sung during the war in praise of the V Brigade. Perhaps Pete Seeger is the author of the Quince variation since he is the person who seems to be the earliest person noted as singing the song.Is anyone in a position to ask him?

To restate my original question rephrased in the light of the above revelations,

Was VIVA LA QUINCA BRIGADA sung IN SPAIN while the Spanish Civil war was STILL being fought? Or was it a song adapted and adopted after the war,possibly originating outside of Spain, possibly originated by Pete Seeger ?

La lutta continua, Geoff


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Subject: RE: ADD: Viva la Quinta Brigada (Christy Moore & n
From: Newport Boy
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:34 AM

Another possible source of information is a Sing Out reprint from about 1961-63 (sorry I can't be more certain of the date).

This was where I first heard of the song, and I'm fairly certain that the notes about it were written by Pete Seeger. If someone has access to the reprints, or the original issue, they might check,

Phil


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Subject: RE: ADD: Viva la Quinta Brigada (Christy Moore & not)
From: Monique
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:13 PM

Guys, the Spanish site about the Civil War songs is temporarily closed but you can still email them.


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Subject: RE: ADD: Viva la Quinta Brigada (Christy Moore & not)
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:16 AM

Thanks Monique and Boy -Geoff


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