Is there a Carter Family Songbook?

Subject: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 01 May 98 - 01:02 AM

The posting I just made about the Leadbelly Songbook reminds me of a similar question I have had for a while. Is there a Carter Family Songbook? One that has the information, say in the Stefan Grossman "Music of" books--tab, musical notation, etc.

Murray

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Online Songbooks:

• www.silcom.com/~peterf/ideas/carterdex.html

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• http://www.icdc.com/~fmoore/carterfamily/index.html

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: CarterNut
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 11:35 AM

As far as I know, there are none. It would be a great idea, though. Of course, you can find their songs in many Bluegrass Songbooks. But during the 1930's when the Original Carter Family was at the height of popularity, there were at least two songbooks published. One was named "Smokey Mountain Ballads of the Carter Family" and the other I can't remember. They are museum pieces, and you would be very lucky if you were able to get a copy.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 02:06 PM

This site has a copy of Smokey Mountain Ballads #3 for sale, but it is $200. (Contains 50 songs) You might want to check it out for some of their more inexpensive items, though. It's fun to dream, anyway!

http://home.iSTAR.ca/~anderman/

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 08:20 PM

there is a new CD set with many Carter songs, but no definitive Carter songbook..I asked Joe Carter once persomally, and he said, yeah, they had talked about that, but just never done anything about it..

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 08:57 PM

It shows you should never abandon hope. I thought this thread was long dead :)

How about books describing Maybelle Carter's guitar style--say with some examples. I have a few 60s Folksong books that give lyrics and chords for some of their songs but they're no fun without those bass runs.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: dulcimer
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 09:55 PM

I too have asked for a songbook before and this forum is about the only place that I have found that gathers their songs as they sang them. I've not found a book with chords or help but the album Maybelle Carter Wildwood Pickin" (Vanguard 77021-2) is of a guitar workshop in 1963, containing several examples. Also one page in the booklet on the Carter Scratch.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 10:23 PM

BEWARE OF ANDERMAN's BARGAINS!

Several of the USED books he has for SALE can be purchased NEW up to 50% less at AMAZON.com and other online sites!

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 10:45 PM

I have been told that copyright law prohibits the issuance of a Carter Family songbook-- that A.P. Carter sold the rights to every song they ever did to Ralph Peer, and Broadcast Music, Inc still owns them and won't let them go. Source: Bob Woodcock who asked Janette and Joe why they don't publish a book of their parents' songs Pete Peterson

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 17 Jul 98 - 09:49 PM

Thanks dulcimer--that is a good lead!

With regard to Pete's information:

Many years ago, when I was a radio Ham in America, I learned that the FCC has (had?) a requirement that when they issued a commercial broadcasting licence to a station, that station HAD to use it (for at least so many hours a day.) I feel the same should be true of copyrights bought (wrenched) from their creators.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Rockaday Johnny
Date: 18 Jul 98 - 07:02 PM

There IS a Carter Family Songbook..Called "The Original CarterFamily" with biography by J. Cash..Peer International distributed by CCP/Belwin Copyright 1980--- has words and music (w/ gtr chords) for 10 of their "biggest" songs...No tablature though. I do remember an instruction lp called "Play Carter Style Guitar" on the Sonytone label (out of Santa Barbara) which included a tab book and taught abought 10 tunes in the real Carter Style (This is a fingerpicking/strum style NOT flatpicking...ala say Tom Paley whos' one of the few whoplays this style as Mother Maybelle)If you can find this old disc it should answer a lot of your questions..

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 06:27 AM

I just got the latest Homespun Tapes Catalog and they have a new video called "Guitar Styles of the Carter Family" taught by Mike Seeger with special guest Janette Carter (daughter of A.P. and Sara). It is not really a songbook, but rather a lesson on the Carter styles of guitar playing. It sounds pretty interesting though.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 10:50 AM

There are 2 Carter Family songbooks available The first one, titled "The Original Carter Carter Family" is a re-printing of an earlier Peer International songbook. It contains 11 songs, is 44 pages long, has a 10 page biography (full of photos) by Johnny Cash, is ISBN # 063400381X and costs $9.99.

The second one, titled "The Carter Family Collection, 32 Songs From the Royal Family of Country Music" by Fred Sokolow, is 128 pages long, contains photos, an introduction, notes on each song, an article entitled "Guitar Styles of the Carter Family, is ISBN # 0793588804 and costs $19.95

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 12:59 PM

To the GUEST above --- very good info, and could you now tell us what songs are in the books? Thanks! == Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 08:09 PM

Thanks "GUEST". It does pay to renew a thread once in a while. That was one of my reasons for the post about the video! Besides its value as a lesson, I look at the video as a "historic document".

About Sokolow. I have some blues lessons by him that are quite good and I look forward to having a look at his Carter Family book.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: bbelle
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 08:26 PM

I was never a Carter Family enthusiast, until a couple of years ago, and now really enjoy playing/singing their music. I was not aware, however, that there is a particular style of guitar playing associated with the Carter Family. Would someone please enlighten me ...

moonchild

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 09:00 PM

And, while you're at it, let us know where we can find The Carter Family Collection (the one with 32 songs at $19.95). I, for one, would order it immediately. I tried Amazon (groan), but Bezos apparently doesn't have it in his monster database. Any suggestions?

Sandy

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: IvanB
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 09:14 PM

Sandy, Elderly lists it. Here is their listing:

THE CARTER FAMILY COLLECTION by Fred Sokolow This deluxe collection features 32 songs from "The Royal Family of Country Music," plus an introduction and family history, rare photos, discography, and analysis of their techniques and music. Songs include "Hello Stranger," "Wabash Cannonball," "Foggy Mountain Top," "Lonesome Valley," more. Note/tab. 128 pp. 49-695382.....list $19.95.....our price $16.95

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: raredance
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 09:27 PM

Sometimes when I sneak a message in during a break at work, it is best not to associate my name with it. I confess to being the one who listed the two books above. I had recalled seeing what turned out to be the Sokolow book in a music store in "Dinky Town" (a community region of Minneapolis adjacent to the University of Minnesota campus) when I was at a scientific meeting in March. I didn't buy it even though they had two copies. I went out to the web and got the title from the Carter Family fan club site (URL below). I also discovered a collection of a variety of Carter Family lyrics at a web site by Peter Feldman, a bluegrass musician. The URL for that one takes you directly to the Carter lyrics, from which you can get to the rest of Peter's stuff which is also worth a look. I expect that many of the lyrics he has are already in the DT, but I did not go down the list ato cross check. Finally I found a breif description of the Sokolow book that lists a few of the songs that are included. Also note that both Carter songbooks are available at Elderly Instuments ( and probably elsewhere) for less than the list price.

rich r

http://www.thecartersisters.com/news.html

http://www.silcom.com/~peterf/carter.htm

The Carter Family Collection by Fred Sokolow

This deluxe book features 32 songs from "The Royal Family of Country Music," plus an introduction & family history, rare photos, a chronological discography, and analysis of their technique and music. Songs include: Bury Me Under the Weeping Willow | Can the Circle Be Unbroken | Cannonball (Cannonball Blues) | Coal Miner's Blues | Engine One-Forty-Three | Foggy Mountain Top | Hello Stranger | John Hardy Was a Desperate Little Man | Little Joe (Darling Little Joe) | Lonesome Valley | Wabash Cannonball | Wildwood Flower | and more. Includes a brief bio of Carter Family discoverer Ralph Peer. 00690261 Guitar Recorded Versions $19.95

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 10:25 PM

I heard one of the family (Joe, I think) say that A.P. was more of a song collector than song writer, so don't assume that because the Carters did a song it they necessarily copyrighted it. From looking at the titles included in "The Carter Family Collection", I suspect that it's a collection of public domain songs that the Carters performed. The ones that were actually written by the Carters (or copyrighted by Peer) may still be unpublished. However, there are lots of songs the Carters played that are public domain, and you can find them in print if you try. For instance, they did of lot of hymns that can be found in old hymnbooks.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 10:38 PM

Mega-thanks, folks.

Sandy

Subject: RE: are there any Carter Family films?
From: GUEST,sharon
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 11:56 PM

I saw Maybelle & Sara sing on TV together many years ago-1967-68? Has anyone seen this, I think they were in Nashville and it was pre-recorded.-thanks Sharon,

or was Mr Paton calling an end to this when he said Thanks folks?

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 12:26 AM

...moonchild...in a nutshell the style is distinctive for it's use of hammer-ons...Maybelle's Gibson stood out for its unique sound as well. I forget the model L 5 or something....of course our own Dr. Peterson will undoubetdly have more to add...from the doghouse,hg

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:53 AM

Moonchild and harpgirl. There are several Carter Guitar styles. Most of them were performed by Maybelle Carter. Her most famous is the so-called "thumb lead" style where she plays a/the melody in the base and "scratches" the treble strings for harmony. An example is "Wildwood Flower". Another style she uses is a slide guitar. "Little Darlin', Pal of Mine" is an example of that style.

We tend to take these styles for granted these days; but a lot of the pickers that came up during the folk revival of the 50's/60's modeled their style after Maybelle's.

She also did some flatpicking; but I can't think of any songs.

I would call A.P. Carter an arranger of songs. He got the songs from his family, from old sheet music, from prayerbooks, from other people, etc. and put on the Carter touch. I don't mean that lightly. I think he converted otherwise dull, mawkish songs to very entertaining, artistic ones.

Sharon. Don't ever assume a thread is ended. Look at the date of the original posting of this one. I have revived some that are even older!

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson in |England
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 02:45 PM

where I am at a public cafe with Internet access after spending the day testifying in court. (Woof!)I MISS everybody. ANyway I love the Carter styles on guitar
the one where you play the melody in the bass strings w a thumbpick and scratch across top strings with index finger back and forth, with lots of hammer on and pull off
the very simple style where the melody is played by pinching TI or TM together and alternating bass-- a lot like the simples Missisippi John Hurt. Sara and Maybelle learned a lot from Leslie Riddle, I think.
then there's that third stile where Maybelle put an extra high nut on the guitar, tuned it to a chord and pretended it was a Dobro. Listen for instance to the reissues of Pal of Mine, or Sweet Fern. THis is my least favorite of the three; I still feel "when you hear the slide, it's time to hide" about Dobro.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 09:48 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 05:57 AM

Pete, I am inclined to think that the Dobro players are pretending that they are Maybelle. She is imitating the "Hawaiian" style of the time. Sort of gently sliding up to chords. Little or no vibrato and little or no whine. I think it goes well with the songs in which it is used.

By the way. There used to be a gadget called the "Hawaiian nut raiser" advertised. Oh why, oh why didn't I get one when I had the chance?

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From:
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 05:05 AM

I bought the Sokolow book. I highly recommend it!!

Murray

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 08:43 AM

Just a note you all that Bear Family has just released a box set of ALL the Carter stuff...12 CDs and a book, haven't seen it, but it is shipping - should have all the columbias and deccas as well as the RCA stuff Rounder reissued will probablt run about $250.00

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: BUTTERFLY
Date: 28 May 03 - 07:31 AM

There is a list of lyrics (but no music) of about 250 Carter Family songs http://www.icdc.com/~fmoore/carterfamily/index.html which is itself a page on http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/. This is also available on a CD-ROM with over 6,000 songs (including MIDIs, scores and lyrics,a nd often some notes on the songs) at a knock-down price through this website from Rod Smith in England.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:03 AM

While we are on the subject, there is a short film, attached to the John Cohen High Lonesome Sound videos of Dillard Chandler and Roscoe Holcomb, of Maybelle and Sarah, playing out in an open field somewhere. The Dillard Chandler is the film to show to your children if they aspire to being folk musicians -- a truly scary film of a man on the bottom (brrrrrr.)
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: bigchuck
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:07 AM

Both of the songbooks mentioned earlier are still in print and are distributed by Hal Leonard. Your friendly neighborhood music store should be able to order you one or both. I just ordered one for a customer.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 28 May 03 - 11:22 PM

Hmmm...I used to own a macadamia nut orchard on the Big Island...so that would that make me a Hawaiian Nut Raiser, right?

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:25 PM

Well, now that I broke down and bought a Copper Family songbook. I'd like to get one for the Carter Family. The 32-song Fred Sokolow book doesn't sound like what I'm looking for - has anything better come out?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:31 PM

I haven't seen a printed one, Joe....only a couple of online versions like this

and this

I suppose one could print their own....

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

I had a book on folk guitar in the '60s by Harry Taussig which had about half of it dedicated to the "Carter Scratch" - thumb and fingernails style of playing. It's long lost, but it had a yellow cover and I think it was called Folk Guitar Styles or something like that. I bought it from an ad in Sing Out!.

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 03:48 PM

I have a 1944 folio #3 "The Carter Family" song book. Titles Sweet Fern, Lonesome Valley, When the Roses Bloom in Dixieland, My Clinch Mountain Home, Lulu Walls, Darling Nellie Across The Sea, Keep On The Sunny Side, Wabash Cannon Ball and 16 more songs. Wanting to kinow the value

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 01:35 AM

Around $80 as of now

Subject: RE: Is there a Carter Family Songbook?
From: GUEST,Willie Smith
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 12:33 AM

I have a 1935 songbook with fifty songs in it. Got it in a lot on eBay for $20, the seller must have not known what it was.