Electro-acoustic guitar sound

Subject: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 07:09 AM

Had a nice thing happen last night. A guy came up at the end of the gig and asked about my guitar -- what it is and how I get such a good sound. I looked round and made sure he was actually speaking to me and told him this story.....The guitar is a Tanglewood TFCA-E which is comfortable and a dream to play and has a really nice acoustic sound for sessions (I've had it about 10 years and it's mellowing nicely), but a crap electric sound, thin and toppy and underpowered. I'd lived with it for too long, compensating with the amp, but struggling if I was plugged straight through a soundman's desk. Eventually I decided something had to be done, But what? Do I sell my '63 Gretsch Country Gent (which hardly ever leaves the house, but is an object of beauty and joy) and buy a really pukka electro-acoustic, maybe a Martin or a Taylor? But then I'd probably feel nervous about taking a guitar like that to a pub gig. In the end I decided to try a new pickup for the Tanglewood first and see how that went. Our local guitar tech is a guy called Andy Viccars who sorts out Fairport Convention amongst many others, and I left the choice of pickup to him. The one he installed was a Headway Snake which runs along the bridge, under the saddle. The difference is amazing! The sound is now rich and mellow, right across the spectrum and allows me to take my place properly in the band soundscape. The guy last night said that on sound alone he'd thought the guitar was a Martin, which totally vindicates my decision --- I've got a new great-sounding guitar for just over a hundred pounds, and I've still got my old great-sounding acoustic guitar as well!

BJ

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: C-flat
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 10:36 AM

And doesn't it affect your playing! When I'm not happy with the amplified sound of my guitar I really struggle to get into what I'm doing and I know it affects what's coming over to the audience. I've only recently sorted out my on-stage sound myself and was gigging last night with renewed confidence and vigour. I had an "Ultramax" pick-up fitted to my Manuel Rodriguez accoustic which is manufactured by Jim Cairns who, fortunately for me, lives locally and who still does a bit of guitar tech'ing from his home. Jim has done design work for Burns guitars and one or two "names" use him, so it's great to have someone who really knows his stuff and who has seen my band play, to be on hand for advice with instrument amplification. I also had him fit his pick-ups to my Telecaster and have drawn some nice comments it's sound. As you say, it needn't cost a lot to get the sound you're looking for, just someone who knows what they're about. Incidently, the other guitarist in my band also uses a Tanglewood and he has fitted a "Woody" pick-up across the sound hole and that sounds great too! The technology available has improved beyond all recognition to when I first started playing with a clip-on pick-up half-covered in tape to dampen down "hot-spots"! Hope your "new sound" takes you from strength to strength!

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,Eoghan
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 01:48 PM

I have the Tanglewood TFCA as well. I agree it's nice to play acoustic but the built in pickup is crap. I've been using a Dimarzio Elemental sound hole pickup (similar to the Woody I suppose). I can get quite a pleasant sound through my Kustom acoustic amp. though putting it direct through some PAs it needs a pre-amp and can sometimes sound a bit synthetic.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 02:39 PM

I had a Tanglewood TW-45 for many years - one of the original ones - and it was a great acoustic guitar. The electric sound was OK, but a bit plasticky.

Some years ago I bought a Martin XC1T Ellipse model - the one with the Fishman mic/piezo electric combination - and I obviously had a cheap Fishman in a very good acoustic guitar. I replaced the Fishman with a Baggs iBeam - it now sounds superb when amplified.

Tanglewoods, as a whole, have had a varied history - production has moved from place to place over the years - but the older ones were superb guitars for the price. I can't vouch for the modern models.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 03:29 PM

I have a fairly old Korean Tanglewood with Fishman electrics An I love it , acoustic OR through either o my PAs !!
There was a nice Taylor in Music Room at the time , almost identical materials and electrics , but without the CutAway , the Abalone and the Gold Plate and was FOUR times the price ,but , new , didnt sound four times as good !
No Doubt , the Taylor will have played in . but I still cant see it being four times as good as my Tanglewood

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,long learner
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 11:20 AM

my tfca-e tanglewood pickup stoped working though i never used it much was told to check for a battery inside is this true

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 11:26 AM

Always change the battery inside the guitar. Older models had a battery velcro'ed unside the body - later models had a pop-out compartment on the side of the guitar.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 11:47 AM

.. and we all know what happens to batteries that are left unattended & forgotten
in rather delicate expensive musical equipment....

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 01:23 PM

I think it was Hemingway who said if you go to war often enough - you'll get killed.

similarly if you gig often enough - sometimes you'll sound great - sometimes you sound like shite.

just an observation.....

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Nov 17 - 03:49 PM

Thanks for advice will check for battery before i do anything else

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 21 Nov 17 - 08:34 PM

I've got a Fishman double Humbucker that fits on the sound hole of my Martin. When plugged in, it gives a really nice warm sound.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: banjoman
Date: 22 Nov 17 - 05:35 AM

Cant stress enough the need to check batteries regularly. I tend to remove them after a gig anyway and reinstall hen needed.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: JHW
Date: 23 Nov 17 - 04:36 PM

Can't change my battery unless I'm changing the strings.
Fishman bridge pu but battery clipped at base of the neck inside. Also no eq as I was wary of holes in my Gurian.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 03:17 AM

I now use K&K pickups in all my acoustic instruments. No batteries and a great sound.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 03:24 AM

I've never heard, on record or live, an amplified electro-acoustic guitar that doesn't sound "synthetic".

God bless the top gypsy jazz guitarists/bluegrass guitarist who have refused to plug in.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 04:20 AM

On the whole, I would agree, though I have to say that the K&K gives a near-perfect acoustic sound - just louder - when plugged into my Roland Cube.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Mooh
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 05:16 AM

Under saddle transducers irritate me. I don't care for the amplified tone (that notorious quack) or what they do to the acoustic tone.

I like the K&K products in several of my instruments. They're the best of all worlds for me...no battery, no affect on acoustic tone, simple to install, reasonably affordable, decent tone...

Over the years, to overcome a feedback issues and to accommodate electronic multi-fx, I experimented with soundhole pickups and rejected the first few I tried. Then after a few years I discovered the Fishman Rare Earth. I have them in the Weissenborn copy, a Simon & Patrick all mahogany folk, and a Beneteau flattop. I just got a used LR Baggs that I installed in a House folk. I can't believe how good they can be made to sound, not fully acoustic of course, but not at all unpleasant, very easy to control, and easy to mix in a band context.

The first Fishman style soundhole pickup I saw was actually the precursor made by someone else who supposed sold or licensed or whatever the idea to Fishman. If I'm not mistaken it was English in origin.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Nick
Date: 24 Nov 17 - 08:16 AM

I bought one of these fairly recently and it sounds decent. Not sure whether it will work live at a sufficient volume level but we'll see

Has anyone else tried or got any experience of one?

Irig Acoustic Stage and another example - Willy Porter trying irig

Plenty of other examples on line but I'd be interested if anyone is using one or has tried one out

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: JHW
Date: 27 Nov 17 - 08:02 AM

Does the K&K need a nearby preamp? I had a microvox (I think)small fag tip size mic which gave good sound but the short lead to a preamp was a dead loss. Albeit small the preamp would fall off the belt or wherever and tug the mic off the guitar. I lent mine to someone, forget who, and never got it back but didn't worry.

As others report an anmplified acoustic guitar always does sound a bit 'electric'.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 27 Nov 17 - 08:53 AM

The K & K installed on my Chisholm doesn't need a preamp. I've had it plugged straight into a number of different open mic PA systems with no problems whatsoever.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Nov 17 - 10:17 AM

A couple of Saturdays ago I tried out my Crump Bouzouki thru a PA for the first time at a session/ rehersal in a smallish auditorium. It came with a LR Baggs Lyric interior mic installed on the bridge plate
and volume control at 9 o'clock in the sound hole. Everyone present was bowled over by the big natural sound at pretty decent volumes without feedback.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 27 Nov 17 - 10:22 AM

Quote from Mooh - "The first Fishman style soundhole pickup I saw was actually the precursor made by someone else who supposed sold or licensed or whatever the idea to Fishman. If I'm not mistaken it was English in origin."

That would be Mike Vanden (originally from Stockport but now living in Strontian) he now produces an improved version - the "Mimesis".

[I do wish people would stop calling u/s piezo pickups "transducers". A transducer is a device which converts one form of energy into another. All pickups are "transducers", a guitar itself is a "transducer", even a lightbulb is a "transducer"!]

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 03:39 AM

I agree with Big Al. I played at a top festival this summer, I have Martin mid range. The PA sound was great, the video proved that, but the onstage was dire, I really had to work hard to feel comfortable. also the young sound man lent to the guitar rather than the squeeze boxes so the balance was bit adrift. Shame as we were well received.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: JHW
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 05:59 AM

This is a really informative thread but all here (me inc.) are seeking an electric means of producing what sounds acoustic.
How about the very shallow bodied, thin top and back guitar, primarily electric with a wish to sound a bit acoustic? Any halfway house sound has a use. Too electric for folkies I guess.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: Mooh
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 08:30 AM

Guest Ray...You're right, and I'm pretty sure it was Simon Mayor who showed me.

Subject: RE: Electro-acoustic guitar sound
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 08:34 AM

Maybe, but amplifying an acoustic guitar by means of a pickup is technically impossible. All you will come up with is an approximation and, ultimately, it depends upon whether the resulting sound is acceptable to your ears.

A guitar's sound is produced by the whole instrument whereas any form of pickup derives its sound from only a selected part of the instrument. An under saddle pickup only derives its sound from the saddle, a soundhole pickup purely from the strings, a "bug" of some sort only from the top of the instrument.

...... and don't let anyone tell you that their latest wizz-bang piezo is the latest development. I Araldited a Barcus Berry piezo under the bridge plate of my Martin way back in about 1977 but haven't used it in years. A couple of months ago, I plugged it into a Baggs pre-amp through a decent acoustic amp and it sounded as good as anything I've heard.

Horses for courses!