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Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it?
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Subject: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,JohnnieBGoode Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:46 PM I wonder about this from time to time. Any one have any ideas? |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:48 PM He sure ain't much of a smiler. Never has been. :-) Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:15 PM I think you'd have to ask him... |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:24 PM Someone asked him in an interview once if he was happy...he said he'd never thought about it. I suspect he had no desire to answer such a question at all in the first place. My impression of Dylan is: He was ecstatically happy in the early days, when he managed to realize his adolescent dreams...by playing music onstage, by meeting many of his heroes (especially Woody Guthrie) in the flesh, and playing music with them, by recording his first album, by playing the legendary folk clubs and stages like Carnegie Hall. He positively bubbled in those days, was often hilarious onstage, cracking jokes, telling tall tales, and was full of high spirits. At the same time he had a lot of really serious and dark stuff on his mind to be writing the social protest material and the other poetry, and often had a torturous private life, trying to work out his personal relationship with Suze Rotolo, etc., and trying to handle outrageous success. She said he tended to see "the dark side" an awful lot. Later, by '65 and '66, he was becoming very alienated and prickly...because he was just too damn famous, and people expected him to do the impossible for them. He started being really hard on most other people then, and on himself too...he acted downright hateful at times in his efforts to protect himself from fans and from the press. That's what it amounts to. You wouldn't have said he was "happy", I don't think, but I imagine he still felt it was all "worth it". He certainly played like he thought it was. After he married Sara and cracked up on the motorcycle, he just wanted OUT. And he got out...for awhile...as best he could. He was definitely happy in the early years of the marriage....he seemed to have decided that marriage and children and a quiet domestic life were THE ANSWER. The love songs of that period (after the intense self-examination and spiritual searching of John Wesley Harding) certainly stronly reflected that on albums such as: Nashville Skyline, New Morning, and Planet Waves. He was happy...the music critics were less so...they preferred Dylan in a state of anger or angst. They got that Dylan...when the marriage started to fall apart and he started touring again on a regular basis. His first album in the new phase, Blood On The Tracks, is probably his very finest of all. It's really incomparable. The material that followed led down a road of greater and greater angst...if not real desperation...and that culminated in his born-again conversion with 3 "Christian" albums. They were often very impressive musically and emotionally, while sometimes very dour and doctrinaire in tone. Was he happy? I wouldn't exactly say that, but he was certainly inspired and filled with new purpose. That led into the 80's...a rocky period which included some great songs, some very poor ones, and some fairly disastrous live concerts, plus some darn good ones, plus a totally lousy movie that never should have been made. It was a real up and down decade. Was he happy? No point even asking, in my opinion... Then he did some more great stuff...with the Travelling Wilburys, and on albums such as Oh Mercy, World Gone Wrong, and others. Then he did maybe the darkest album ever...Time Out of Mind...it was pretty darn good, but if you can listen to the whole thing without getting depressed you have mastered detachment! It's clear from the songs on Time Out of Mind that Bob would far rather be young again! So would I, as long as I didn't forget what I've learned along the way. I imagine he'd rather be anonymous too. Most of his close friends say that's the gift they would give him if they could. Suze Rotolo said she would give him "youth, beauty, and no more biographies". Man, I would give him that too, and anything else if I could for what he has done. Was it worth it? Yup. It was for me, and it was for millions of other people, and it was for him. It was his chosen destiny. Would he choose to do it again (in another life)? I doubt it. Once through that whirlwind is enough for anyone. To close this I will quote Joan Beez from her own song lyrics:
"Happiness is temporary, believe me, I know I love them both dearly. They brought me more than happiness. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Tweed Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:34 PM Amen to that LH. He made me start thinking for the first time when I heard "Subterranean Homesick Blues" blasting from the transistor radio that was stuck in my canvas paperboy bag when I was 13 or 14. Changed my entire brain wave patterns that cold, miserable January day and have always been glad for it. Thanks Bob, I owe you one. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:51 PM Happiness comes and goes. If you were happy all the time, you wouldn't be really happy at all, I fancy.
If you asked someone what their ambition in life was, and they said "to be happy" I think you'd feel they were missing out on something. Including happiness.
I doubt if you'd ever have found Dylan giving that answer. Except maybe at some time when he was really unhappy. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Frogmore Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:46 PM Little Hawk, Well put. You're a damn good writer and clear thinker and if you lived down the street I'd walk on over for a visit. Frogmore |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Amos Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:48 PM Two different questions. Was he happy? Sometimes. Was it worth it? Sure. Absolutely. A |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 02 - 11:49 PM Yeah, Little Hawk, while a thread killer, a well written thread killer. Like the Tweezer, when I first heard Bob in 1964, my life was changed. Period. There is no other artist that has had that much impact on me. (And as for "Time Out of Mind"? It's all blues and I am the one who can listen to it and come away feeling fine...) Bobert |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Big Tim Date: 18 Jun 02 - 03:14 AM I'd guess that Dylan has always been something of a pessismist, even as a child and teenager. As a young singer maybe he thought he could change the world but then realised that that the world has a habit of going it's own way regardless,and that many of his "allies" in the protest scene were just about as doctrinaire and intolerant as those they wanted to change. (Better, admittedly, to have been a Freedon Rider than a racist Mayor). Also there was fame, the music business ("music is spiritual, the music business is not" - Van Morrison)and complete loss of privacy (fans going through his garbage for "clues","dylanogy"), etc. Basically though I don't think Dylan likes humanity, and given the mess we've made of the world, who can blame him? "trainwrecks and the tearing down of the walls". Happy - sadly no, He far too thoughtful to possibly be happy. Are any of us happy? Worth it? - for me, yes definitely, in a class of his own. No matter who else I listen to I always come back to Bob Dylan. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: fat B****rd Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:16 AM No idea regarding his mental state, I either listen to his stuff or I don't. Generally though I do. Nice thread LH. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Tweed Date: 18 Jun 02 - 06:43 AM It's a good thread but if he ever popped in here and read the thing, I bet it'd make him somewhat unhappy to find us takin' him apart and still trying to put labels on the pieces. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Jun 02 - 11:49 AM Yeah, Tweed, you're right about that. It's the price of fame, though. You become "public property", whether you want it or not. When he was young he wanted to be "bigger than Elvis". As far as I'm concerned he did become bigger than Elvis, but if he'd known what it would be like he might not have done it. I wanted to be famous when I was young too. I have since decided that relative obscurity and a few good friends beats the hell out of fame! Big Tim - Good comments. I used to think maybe I could change the world too. I finally came around to seeing that the only really workable plan of action was to change myself. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,The Jester Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:00 PM The crystal ball upon the wall ain't shown me nothin yet. I've paid the price of solitude but at least I'm out of debt. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Jun 02 - 03:03 PM "People see me all the time, and they just can't remember how to act. Their minds are filled with big ideas, images, and distorted facts." |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Willie-O Date: 18 Jun 02 - 03:05 PM I don't think he'd still be touring if he didn't like it. God knows he doesn't need the money. Guy sure is changeable. That seems to me to be his prevailing feature. So, sometimes happy, sometimes not, and looking back over forty years, how could it not have been worth it? W-O |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Troll Boy Date: 19 Jun 02 - 03:05 AM Good words, Little Hawk. You're a fan. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Pete Jennings Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:23 PM Is he happy? To my mind, put this way, this question ("are you happy") almost always implies the achievement of a prolonged state of a singular emotion, whereas in reality there is no such thing as we all go through many, often polarised, emotions in a single day. And, given the complexities of life, can anybody really be happy for a prolonged period of time? (Skipping down the road with your first real true love at seventeen excepted, on the basis that those few weeks seem to last a lifetime!). He's probably just like the rest of us - happy when the plane's on time (even if it's a Learjet rather than a 747), happy when he does a good gig, happy when he gets up on a perfect Spring morning, happy when he writes a song which HE thinks is good, etc. But, also like the rest of us, he's only human, so after the happiness will come a cycle of the other emotions, on a daily basis. Was it worth it? He'll be well beyond counting or valuing money by now, so he'll have the same personal self doubts we all get as we mature and start becoming more reflective upon our own lives. Here's my answer: We all think it was worth it just for "X", whatever "X" may be in each of our lives. IMHO, he could have done nothing before he wrote "Mississipi", and I'd still acknowledge the greatness of his writing, which is not dependant upon elapsed time in terms of human lifespan. Today, Wednesday 19 June, I've been tired, inpsired, hot, chilled, hungry, full, in Belgium, up at 30,000 feet, back on the ground, back in England, stuck in traffic and, right now, inspired as ever by Catters. My wife is sick upstairs in bed, but I'm reconciled to that, there's a glass of scotch and a guitar waiting for me when I finish in here, and it's still light outside and the sky is blue. And I think I've written a great song, needs some fine-tuning, but I'M pleased with it. That's sadness, that's happiness, that's worth, even if transient. It's the same for Dylan - he's no different to the rest of us. Pete
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Tweed Date: 19 Jun 02 - 07:09 PM Well said Pete. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 02 - 07:42 PM "Well, anybody can be just like me, obviously..." |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Jun 02 - 11:16 PM "I've gained some recognition, but I've lost my appetite"
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey Date: 19 Jun 02 - 11:51 PM What is this thing called happiness? Are you happy? Am I? Sometimes yep, sometimes nup. I think the question should be "Is he happier having done it than he would have been had he not done it?", and the answer to that is that he had to do it; he couldn't have lived any other way, which effectively nullifies the question of how happy he is about it. I don't think it turned out the way he expected it to. Was it worth it? He made the world an incalculably better place. It must have been worth it, whatever the sacrifice. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: caz2ufolk Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:21 PM I hope he was and still is happy. He sure made me happy last month when I saw him for the first time in Manchester. It was definatley ' worth it ' when I heard him sing. 'Don't think twice it's alright'( non stop singing for 3 hours ) Caz |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Mike Strobel Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:48 PM Well, I get to see Bob in August-2002. I haven't seen him since, The Rolling Thunder Review ( maybe 25 years plus ) , so hopefully, it'lle easier to see how happy he truly is. ( Even though he'll never show it, his kids make him as happy as our own do us...............and now in retrospect, if he had not done what he did, then, you would see an un-happy man. PS Little Hawk, your summation was just great and VERY accurate. Mike Strobel |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:51 PM Was the Bob Dylan in Don't Look Back the real Bob Dylan? If so, the main adjectives that come to mind are smug, superior, snide, bullying, condescending, and cranky. Now, I'd like to think that Bob's immaturity and dislike of the Press were the cause, but it seems that at that time, all of us were smitten by Bob's genius, but most particularly smitten was Bob. He has written some amazing songs but I would stand on Bob's coffee table and say this : Townes Van Zandt was a nicer guy. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:33 PM "Don't Look Back" was a series of quick grabs showing his behaviour on a particular tour in '66. By the time I first saw it in 1970 it was already out of date. I doubt you'll find the real Bob Dylan there. I'd say he's lurking somewhere between Fourth Street and Desolation Row. Maybe he's folowin' them dusty ol' fairgrounds a-callin', or ridin' Number Nine going south from Caroline... Why his coffee table? |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:37 PM What were any of us like in 1966? Those of us who were around then. Imagine the nightmare of suddenly presented with a fly-on-th-wall documentary of it... |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:27 PM Good point, McGrath! LOL! Ah, the idiocy that was commonplace...I blush to think of it. Never has there lived a generation of young people so stuck on themselves as that one was...but there was some fine idealism out there as well. LEJ - Dylan himself later regretted how mean he'd been to some people at that time...note the sense of regret and self-examination in the songs on the album John Wesley Harding, which followed the whirlwind ride of '65-66. The "Wicked Messenger" IS Bob Dylan, as he saw himself in retrospect. "There was a wicked messenger, from Eli he did come, with a mind that multiplied the smallest matters. When questioned who had sent for him he answered with his thumb, for his tongue it could not speak, but only flatter." And he then advised himself... "if you cannot bring good news then don't bring any". Those were the few words that "opened up his heart". Also, Albert Grossman encouraged Dylan's bad attitude in every way he could. It kept the circle small. Grossman was not known to be a "nice man" either, to say the least. Observe his treatment of the man at the hotel counter in "Don't Look Back". - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: MudWeasel Date: 21 Jun 02 - 01:44 AM Read an interview with Dylan once. reporter asked him if was happy. I'm paraphrasing here, but his basic answer was: "It's an irrelevant question. Anybody can be happy if they want to. There are drugs that can make you happy. The better question to ask is 'Are you blessed?'" As I recall, he raised the question but didn't asnwer it in that interview, but I think he likely has been abundantly blessed with talent and recognition thereof. -MW |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:46 PM Pean...the coffee table phrase was a kind of obscure reference to Steve Earle's quote "I'd be happy to stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say it : Townes Van Zandt is the world's greatest songwriter." If you read many of my posts, you'll probably discover that a lot of things I say are unscrutable to anyone but me. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 21 Jun 02 - 07:14 PM "unscrutable"? Uncredible! |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey Date: 22 Jun 02 - 02:51 AM Lonesome EJ - Thanks for clearing up the coffee table/Steve Earle/Townes Van Zandt connection. An interesting train of thought. It throws a feast of new variables into the equation. There are those who think songwriters (artists in fact) are a bit like kings, in that a good king can't be a good man and a good man can't be a good king. Dylan seems to fit the formula but T.V.Z. doesn't seem to. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just throwing it out there for consideration. "Unscrutable" is fine. I found it scrutable. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,The Jester Date: 22 Jun 02 - 10:26 AM Her pasport shows a face from another time and another place she looks nothing like that. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Jun 02 - 02:02 PM "Democracy don't rule the world, You'd better get that in your head. This world is ruled by violence But I guess that's better left unsaid." |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: little john cameron Date: 22 Jun 02 - 06:56 PM Round about the time we are talking aboutI don't think I would have liked me very much if I met myself.Get a load of this. Green silk shirt with removable ruffles
Purple leather jacket with fringes |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Jun 02 - 10:08 AM Gosh, that sounds a lot like me at the same time, except for the beard...never did go for beards. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Hillel House 1961 Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:06 AM I'm certain that this is going to be a little difficult for some of you to grasp, because your not Jewish. And because it is not politicaly correct to think in ethnic terms. Although I have no idea why that is, being a pre-1960's liberal, I have less trouble with that then you young people. Bobby Zimmerman, although Born in Duluth, spent al lot of time in Hibbing Minnesota. Hibbing is a fairly small iron mining town in a very rural area, in a very anti-semetic state. Or at least it was in the 1940's and 50's. WW2 exacerbated anti-semitism every where in the USA, and on the Iron Range was even worse. Combine that fact with the fact that the Jewish population was comparitively small, and alienated from the mainstream of society by traditional Jewish zenophobia. There you have the makings of a very cynical yong man. Being a brilliant "outsider" didn't stop there. When he went to the U of M he found that his Iron Range background made him seem wierd to the hyper-urban Jews who all had known each other for decades. His natural affinities lead him to the out-cast society of Beats in Dinky Town. The rest is in the books. Thus the natural gloomy character of the introspective Jew, the pain of being an outcast (his fame has continued to isolate him, I'm sure),and the fact that the poetics of mankind's weakness is in itself a deprssing subject, leads me to believe that his life is a melancholy affair. He has paid the price of the great poet. He is the un-crowned poet lauriate of my genration. He sings the sad song of mandkind. He accomplished what I think he always wanted: He wanted the "others" to know what he saw in them. But he will never be happy. It is the plight of the wandering Jew. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Jun 02 - 05:36 PM Sounds quite plausible to me, Hillel, as far as it goes... You're right that there is such fear nowadays about being seen to be prejudiced or racist or whatever, that people don't dare make any written reference to such aspects whatever when discussing a person or a situation...even if that reference might have real bearing on the situation. This is deeply sad, and has not helped the cause of human brotherhood one bit...or should I say "siblinghood"? (groan...) - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey Date: 23 Jun 02 - 06:26 PM Hillel, I thought that was a solid comment beautifully expressed. Except what's the "U of M"? |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Lint Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:07 PM It's like television channels; we're all on channel 5 and he's on channel 7. He probably doesn't care about anything other than writing good stuff because he's always writing all the time. He's the guy in the tan raincoat in the corner of the studio shuffling around little pieces of paper with verses and chorii on them talking to himself, oblivious to the rest of the world. A lot of musicians who aim at fame and fortune find it and then there's nothing more to do and they self destruct. He's probably one of those people who has set his sights on something he can't see, that way he'll always be looking for it, always be writing, entertaining himself and all the rest of us in the process. It's kind of like that old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it." "Strange little wrinkled prune-of-a-man, like one of those apple carvings." L. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:49 PM Ah, but he had such a fresh and youthful face in '65! U of M would be University of Minnesota, I believe. By the way, Hillel, I was an "outcast" too...a shy, intellectual, book-reading Canadian kid with leftist political inclinations, marooned from age 10 to 20 in a right-wing redneck little town in upstate New York some distance from Syracuse. Pretty much like Hibbing, I would think. I could hardly have felt more alienated and alone than I did there. Maybe that's why I liked Dylan so much. I don't find it that big a leap to identify with the "wandering Jew". Hardly anyone around there even began to comprehend what Dylan was about, let alone empathize with it...they were all into the Beatles, the Monkees, and the Rolling Stones. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Frogmore Date: 23 Jun 02 - 10:50 PM Threads like this one are the reason I visit the Mudcat when I have what I think are better things to do.... I weighed in early on this one and here I go again. I would suggest that the usage of the word "happy" was indeed provocative, but a rather teeny-bopperish choice in my opinion. I cherish those moments when I am "happy" but I believe there are more highly-evolved emotions that one might attain. I'm "proud" of my parents and my daughters, I'm "grateful" for having been allowed to live through a few dangerous episodes in my life, I feel "satisfied" if I perform well at a gig, etc. I had a warm and stimulating childhood but always somehow believed that feeling "happiness" was a by-product of something else one was aiming for. This had to do with many influences, one of which was the prayer by Robert Louis Stevenson that my maw had framed and hanging on the wall. She read it to us at breakfast fairly often. Betcha Dylan knows it. R.L. Stevenson's writing is rich. Here is "Prayer at Morning." "The day returns and brings us the petty round of irritating concerns and duties. Help us to play the man, help us to perform them with laughter and kind faces, let cheerfulness abound with industry. Give us to go blithely on our business all this day, bring us to our resting beds weary and content and undishonoured, and grant us in the end the gift of sleep." My favorite part is the "undishonoured." A legitimate double-negative for those who care about such things. Frogmore
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,The Jester Date: 24 Jun 02 - 06:42 AM To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands, with all memory and fate, driven deep below the waves. Forget about today until tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Mike Strobel Date: 24 Jun 02 - 12:57 PM Hey if a man's happiness is measured by the number of people who perform Bobby Dylan's songs............ Little Hawk, if you are a going to OLD SONGS , then I'll stay up all night with ya, playin and singin ( Dylan Songs ) and learning more about this incredible songwriter. I'm just wonderin " when do ya think his voice is gonna sound like "Nashville Skyline" again ? |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Pied Piper Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:02 PM Never I hope. Didn't suite him, too nice by far. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:54 PM I doubt that he will ever sound like that again on an album. I believe he was doing homage to Hank Williams at that point, Hank having been a very big influence on the young Bob Dylan, before he got into the Little Richard phase. That was back when Bob was in his early teenage years. He had a very pure vocal sound then, like a choirboy, according to people who heard him at the time. He had also briefly quit smoking before doing Nashville Skyline in '68, and that had some notable effect on smoothening his voice. But mainly, I'd say, it was a deliberate attempt to evoke an old time country sound...and at the time he was quite pleased with the results. Bob's voice is like a chameleon's skin...it has gone through a lot of changes. I've heard of live concerts where he deliberately sang in just about every voice heard in his whole catalog of albums...that must have been pretty intriguing! He's been more consistent than that when I've seen him live. I consider Nashville Skyline, well...okay...but it's one of his weaker albums, all things considered, and I don't much miss that sound. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Mike Strobel Date: 24 Jun 02 - 02:17 PM Dear LH, Actually the " Nashville Skyline " singing reference was in jest. However, his singing on that new song ,circa '98-99 from the movie Michael Douglas was in " The times are changing ", (I know I goofed up on the song title), ( This track is found on the " Essential Bob Dylan " double CD, is just great. I felt his singing on his most recent CD is rather off and I can't enjoy it as much when I have to really struggle to understand his articulation. With that being said,at the age of 61 this old " Folkie " is still rockin'. In reference to his ethnic background and the timeframe he was brought up in, one would pre-suppose he would be a little cynical or at best melancholy. Yet, even in High School 1958, he had a motorcycle ( A big one too) and a car with a convertible roof ( that his father bought him ), so my point is, he seemed to have much more, than did many kids of his age. I know I came from 8 kids and didn't have all those toys. One last point on his singing, it was mentioned by a number of people ( in the Books on Dylan ) that his early vocals '59-'60 in Dinkytown were just awful as well, even though I don't think his voice really suffered ( in my own opinion) until 1995. OK, I've finally pontificated enough! MIke |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Jun 02 - 04:47 PM I was tremendously impressed by Dylan's vocal powers in the 70's and 80's. He could really belt it out, and his range was also quite surprising. For instance, compare Dylan's voice with Tom Petty's when they sing together in the concert movie "Hard To Handle". They're on the same mike together, and Dylan has the power of an express train...Tom Petty sounds very weak in comparison. Dylan's an unconventional singer, but in my opinion a damn good one, with superb phrasing ability when he chooses to use it. The first album I noticed where his voice was seriously out of shape was "Good As I Been To You" in the early 90's. He sounded ragged on that one. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey Date: 24 Jun 02 - 07:58 PM Having now had time for rumination I think I'm ready to address the question at hand. I think up to Bringing it all Back Home he was happy with how it was all going, but by the time of Highway 61 he was becoming a little jaded, and by the time he made the Basement Tapes he had had a gutful. That was why he never made that record. He must have listened to those songs on tape and said "Wait a minute, what am I doing?" If we had known then how to listen to Tears of Rage for example, we could almost have predicted what he would do next. I mean the title alone says mouthful. Like John Lennon a few years later he simply got off the roller coaster. I think he's happy again now he's just another musician. "Tell 'em all Tiny Montgomery says hello..." |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,The Jester Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:05 PM Too much of nothin can make a man feel ill at ease. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,JohnnieBGoode Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:33 PM I sometimes wonder if all those detractor's got to him. I love what he did and the way he was. But despite all the heart-felt music and performance, you can see on Don't Look Back that he faced questions like "Are you putting us on?" and "Do you care about what you sing?" It's funny...I admire Dylan so much that I was entranced and amazed at the documentary. Until a friend mentioned it may not show him "in a very good light" I never even thought about it. LH, what is the Grossman "hotel counter" scene? Is that were he's negotiating a BBC interview? He wasn't so mean there, just screwd. Oh maybe you're referring to the "there's no noise here" "go get a constable" scene. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 25 Jun 02 - 01:05 PM I like the scene in DLB where Dylan discusses Caruso with the Newsweek writer..."have you heard me sing? I'm just as good as he is." |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Jun 02 - 02:07 PM Yeah, to read some of Dylan's jousts with the press at that time can be truly hilarious. He was so disenchanted with them and their usual idiotic questions that he would say anything just to knock them off balance. Regarding Grossman...it's a scene where he is almost unbelievably rude to a member of the hotel staff in some large hotel, referring to him contemptuously as a "dried up old fruit", I think it was. The man looks stunned, and replies "I'm just as God made me, sir!", which is a rather good answer. Grossman was a pretty creepy character. He and Dylan later sued each other mutually for this and that, thus enriching a goodly number of high-priced lawyers... - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Slickerbill Date: 25 Jun 02 - 08:59 PM I've only really become a Bob fan in the last few years; though I've always thought he was a great songwriter, it's only been recently that I've realized just how great he really is. I've got tickets to see him this August. Must confess though; I'm a bit worried as I've heard his live shows can be spotty. Still, the opportunity...Also a question; is "Biograph" worth picking up or not? if not, what would you say would be , say, the best three albums to pick up? sb |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:00 AM "Highway 61 Revisited" and two others |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Steve Latimer Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:24 AM Slickerbill, Biograph is worth picking up. It has some very good stuff on it. However, I'd recommend getting Blood On The Tracks, Blonde on Blonde The Bootleg Series 1-3 and Highway 61 Revisited before getting Biograph. Don't be concerned about seeing him live, there was a time that he wasn't very good, but his heart is back in it, his band is wonderful, it will be a great show. Where are you seeing him? Is he happy? I think he finally is. There was a time that an entire generation hung on his every word. I think the pressure is off and he's enjoying his new role as "Just a Guitar Player".
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Slickerbill Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:47 AM I'm seeing him in Winnipeg. he's been through once before, but hey, ya can't afford every show ya wanna see, right? But I'm really looking forward to it. I actually have Blood on the Tracks, but I have heard Blonde on Blonde is a great one. I'm not sure what to think about some of the stuff on Love and Theft; Mississippi is great, but some of the "jazz standard" stuff there?? Time Out of Mind was great. Don't have it though. SB |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Steve Latimer Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:56 AM He's also playing Toronto in August. I will be out of town or I'd go. I like Love & Theft, I think it's a neat nod to American music history. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Mike Strobel Date: 26 Jun 02 - 11:39 AM Slickerbill, I'm gonna see him in August as well in good ole Buffalo, NY. Haven't seen him since the Rolling Thunder Review ( 2x's ) in '76-77 , however, I did see Dylan in Toronto , '74 with The Band. So, it will be an interesting show. Pick up the 2 CD Set : The Eseential Bob Dylan for a decent retrospective..........muy opinion only......and if you were gonna get 3 Albums : The Times They are a changin Blonde on Blonde Blood on the tracks Mike Strobel |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM And if you want to hear Bob do some really neat covers, acoustic style, pick up "World Gone Wrong" from the early 90's. The liner notes are also very interesting, and say a lot about the music. For his greatest lyrical album of all time...in my opinion...get "Bringing It All Back Home"!!! For an album with some amazing guitar, harmonica, etc...get "Bob Dylan" (the first album). It has a picture of him wearing the funny little hat. He was GOOD when he started out. Oh, yeah, "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" is terrific too. I'll stop now... - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Steve Latimer Date: 26 Jun 02 - 01:53 PM Little Hawk, But where do you stop?? If you could only have three Dylan albums what would they be (box sets are acceptable). If you were recommending three albums to a Dylan Newbie, what would they be?
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Slickerbill Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:03 PM I've gotta say that the purple anthology ("Best of Bob dylan?) was one that made me realize how friggin' great the guy is. I was on a long bus ride and i put the ol' disc man on and away I went. I think for some odd reason you have to listen to Bob on phones. Thanks for the advice, and sorry about the thread drift here guys. sb |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:03 PM Hey, Steve... If the boxed sets are in, that makes it very tough. Let's just leave them out. In that case I would pick: Blood On The Tracks, Blonde on Blonde, and Bringing It All Back Home. I can't imagine doing without those boxed sets at this point... - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Steve Latimer Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:20 AM LH, I was thinking the same thing, but then I thought of his first two official albums, Bob Dylan & Freewheeling. Heck, they should be on any list of his best stuff. Still, I think I would rate them 5 and 4 respectively. (This coming from a guy who really likes "Desire"). |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,Slickerbill Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:25 AM Y'know, being a "newer" Dylan fan, it's really interesting to see the differing opinions on the guy's work from devotees. I just realized the same thing happens when my daughter and I discuss which is our "favorite" Beatles record; a seemingly impossible task. sb |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:18 PM I also like "Street Legal" and "Empire Burlesque" a whole lot. I thought some of the '80's stuff was great, and wasn't bothered in the least by the female back-up chorus. In fact, I liked them. Leonard Cohen did it...why shouldn't Dylan? "Desire" has some marvelous singing and music. Scarlet Rivera's gypsy violin is pretty memorable. Lyrically, I'm less impressed by some of the songs...but there are a couple of great ones ("One More Cup of Coffee" is a classic, and so is "Isis"). - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Steve Latimer Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:26 PM LH, I'm with you on Desire. He has written better lyrics, but the album has great feel, the violin that you referred to and Emmylou Harris's backing vocals created a lot of special moments. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:40 PM Yeah, and the concert tour had to be the greatest lineup ever...and some of the best performances ever by Mr. Bob. It was the only time I ever got to see Joan Baez in my whole life. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: chordstrangler Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:01 PM Surely the wrong question is being asked here. The question "is he happy" makes absolutely no sense to me. |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: chordstrangler Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:02 PM Sorry. The gremlins got in the way.
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: chordstrangler Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:06 PM Anybody from Ireland will tell you that the real question is "are you content". You can be happy one minute and deeply unhappy half an hour later. Contentment means something totally different. I know that as a singer/songwriter the man had a hell of an influence on me. I'm not alone. He has been responsible for a lot of individual liberation and I thank him for it and think that the world is a lot better place because of him. Hail Dylan and to hell with the begrudgers. regards........M |
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Subject: RE: Is/Was Dylan happy? Was it worth it? From: GUEST,JohnnieBGoode Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:51 AM chordstrangler, that's a much better way of putting it. i guess it's the nature of the business that there will be those who criticize and try to bring you down to nothing sometimes. i suppose he was hurt and hope he got over it. >Hail Dylan and to hell with the begrudgers. that's what i say, too. he's my favorite
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