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BS: Farewell To Mudcat II

Jon Freeman 18 Jun 02 - 09:30 AM
Willie-O 18 Jun 02 - 10:08 AM
AliUK 18 Jun 02 - 11:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Jun 02 - 12:14 PM
Clinton Hammond 18 Jun 02 - 12:26 PM
annamill 18 Jun 02 - 12:28 PM
Clinton Hammond 18 Jun 02 - 12:38 PM
AliUK 18 Jun 02 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Ed 18 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM
annamill 18 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM
Clinton Hammond 18 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM
Watson 18 Jun 02 - 12:48 PM
annamill 18 Jun 02 - 01:09 PM
Steve in Idaho 18 Jun 02 - 01:19 PM
annamill 18 Jun 02 - 01:24 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 02 - 01:27 PM
annamill 18 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 02 - 01:46 PM
dwditty 18 Jun 02 - 01:59 PM
Haruo 18 Jun 02 - 02:04 PM
Eric the Viking 18 Jun 02 - 02:10 PM
Mr Red 18 Jun 02 - 02:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Jun 02 - 02:57 PM
fat B****rd 18 Jun 02 - 03:11 PM
GUEST,Nerd 18 Jun 02 - 03:22 PM
wysiwyg 18 Jun 02 - 03:31 PM
DougR 18 Jun 02 - 04:35 PM
Mary in Kentucky 18 Jun 02 - 04:56 PM
mooman 18 Jun 02 - 05:33 PM
Linda Kelly 18 Jun 02 - 06:36 PM
michaelr 18 Jun 02 - 06:56 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 02 - 07:27 PM
artbrooks 18 Jun 02 - 07:32 PM
Bullfrog Jones 18 Jun 02 - 07:56 PM
Celtic Soul 18 Jun 02 - 08:13 PM
DonMeixner 18 Jun 02 - 08:16 PM
GUEST,Going AWOL!!!! 18 Jun 02 - 08:17 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 02 - 08:21 PM
Robin2 18 Jun 02 - 08:47 PM
alison 18 Jun 02 - 09:01 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 18 Jun 02 - 09:11 PM
SINSULL 18 Jun 02 - 09:48 PM
Mooh 18 Jun 02 - 10:06 PM
GUEST 19 Jun 02 - 12:59 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Jun 02 - 01:08 AM
KingBrilliant 19 Jun 02 - 02:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 19 Jun 02 - 03:50 AM
Mr Red 19 Jun 02 - 08:59 AM
C-flat 19 Jun 02 - 11:17 AM
Scabby Douglas 19 Jun 02 - 11:46 AM
Don Firth 19 Jun 02 - 02:12 PM
AliUK 19 Jun 02 - 02:15 PM
MMario 19 Jun 02 - 02:25 PM
AliUK 19 Jun 02 - 02:33 PM
Amos 19 Jun 02 - 06:34 PM
GUEST 19 Jun 02 - 06:44 PM
Callie 19 Jun 02 - 10:52 PM
Terry K 20 Jun 02 - 03:11 AM
wysiwyg 20 Jun 02 - 09:33 AM
GUEST 20 Jun 02 - 09:38 AM
harpgirl 20 Jun 02 - 09:49 AM
GUEST,gargoyle 20 Jun 02 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 20 Jun 02 - 10:05 AM
wysiwyg 20 Jun 02 - 10:28 AM
Uncle Jaque 20 Jun 02 - 10:35 AM
PeteBoom 20 Jun 02 - 11:00 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Jun 02 - 11:26 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Jun 02 - 12:13 PM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 20 Jun 02 - 12:17 PM
Big Mick 20 Jun 02 - 12:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Jun 02 - 02:34 PM
Irish sergeant 20 Jun 02 - 04:47 PM
GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 20 Jun 02 - 05:15 PM
SharonA 20 Jun 02 - 05:25 PM
Gareth 20 Jun 02 - 07:05 PM

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Subject: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:30 AM

This is the second time I've posted one of these but this time it is in acrimonious circumstances although it may be greeted with cheers from many departments... I've been told to (quote) "fuck off" by Max who will never speak to me again (not that he ever did :-) ) so that is the end.

Where does that leave me and the Annexe, etc.?

Max seems to hate the Annexe (he said he will never support it although he of course did use it to post info when he had problems during his move) but Pip loves it and feels that she has made many friends there. To that end, I am transferring ownership and control of the Annexe to Pip (she is only my mother and doesn't neccessarily agree with any of my thoughts and should not be dragged into any of my own issues) although obviously I am going to have to help her with the technical side. Other than that, it is entirely hers, her choice who she wants to open it to, what purposes she wants it for, etc. and she has to see where it goes.

As for me, I intend starting another folk forum which I hope to have running within 2 weeks but it could be a little longer as I need a new domain, probably swap domain names as I think it would be easier for Pip if she wasn't jonbanjo.com and have a bit of programming to do...

The site will be member only and although there will be a small community element, it will aim to focus on Music and not get overloaded or obscured by "shatner threads", etc. It will also contain a database for traditional songs to be built from scratch by interested parties. The aim here will be to provide accuracy, quality, detailed notes on the songs if possible and to provide tunes in ABC format. I'm hoping that I will also be able to generate Midi and Gif formats from the ABC.

I am open to any suggestions and if anyone feels they have anything to offer in terms of suggestions or maybe later development, or moderating or admin and are willing to work as a team, perhaps even leading a team within the forum structure, please feel free to contact me at jon@jonbanjo.com.

Whether the site takes off or not remains to be seen but I feel it is worth a try and I am optimistic, and I feel that I will be able to offer facilities that Mudcat doesn't or can (or will) not. I also dont have the worries of 1Gb of database space, 1/2 of which is dross or of wasted bandwidth on "shatner", "NYTTCS", etc. to consider so I should be able to operate on a very low budget.

Max seems to have thought my motives were transparent, and I'm now ending up trying to do what I suspect many thought I wanted here, when in fact I'm doing something I never wanted... rather, that I feel my hand has been forced and I've nowhere else to go...

If my new site does gain some support, in a perverse sort of way, I hope Max does respond to the "fight" (something Max suggested in a PM without any suggestion of me starting up something new) and he develops new features at Mudcat to counter any development efforts I make and he adopts more of a team work approach, etc. I may not be welcome here but people here would still gain and my criticisms of Mudcat, of course, would then have been vindicated as Max will have proved that he could (and should) have done more all along the line.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:08 AM

Much as I don't like to see ugly conflict between two people I like and respect, I'm glad you're taking your feelings and energy in a generally positive direction, Jon.

Will be interested to see how your new site develops.

Personally I gotta admit, I'm looking forward to a time when the name "Shatner" is not even a memory...

W-O


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: AliUK
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 11:08 AM

Farewell Jon and good luck with the new site. Hope to visit it someday. As an accomplice with the Shatner thread thing...it´s a bit of fun in a forum of friends who have a common interest. I don´t know what your beef with Max is and it´s none of my business, but yes I do join in the ´fun´stuff as well as using the database here and contributing where I feel I have something to contribute in the music threads. I thought that was what an internet community was about. Good luck with a MEMBERS only forum...sounds a bit elitist to me...but then again what would a no-brain idiot like me know?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:14 PM

Yep - good luck, Jon. Sorry to see you go and hope you will still attend the gatherings.

When can we expect the first 'JonCat'(tm) gathering? The more events the merrier as far as I am concerned. :-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:26 PM

Joe...

Keep up the good work mate! I like what you did with the Annex quite a bit, even though I only went there when The Cat was down...

Keep me in the loop when ya get yer new place hoppin eh!

I'm always keen to find another good Message Board...

P.S... EVERY Message Board on the net worth it's salt, requires or at least encourages membership, and reserves the right to delete spam, flames and off topic garbage...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: annamill
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:28 PM

You know Jon, just thought I'd mention something. This thread wouldn't be allowed on your site. It's not really music related is it?

Good luck! Annamill


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:38 PM

Huh?

Last time I checked the Annex Forum, there was NO music forum there at all...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: AliUK
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:38 PM

well pointed out anna.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM

Being as none of you know anything about the shape and form Jon's new site might take, don't you think starting to criticise it already is a little premature?

Ed

(you'll probably point out that I wouldn't be able to post to it, now. Sigh...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: annamill
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM

*******************************************************

As for me, I intend starting another folk forum which I hope to have running within 2 weeks

The site will be member only and although there will be a small community element, it will aim to focus on Music and not get overloaded or obscured by "shatner threads", etc

*********************************************************

I'm sorry. Did I misunderstand? I thought Jon said he was starting a music site, didn't he?

Annamill


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM

Yes Anna, that's correct.

You don't however know what form the small community element might take, hence your initial post is absurd, not to mention mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:46 PM

Ahhh... thought you ment Jons current site Annamill...

read ya 5X5 now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Watson
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:48 PM

Wasn't it stated that music threads started on the Annexe when Mudcat was down would be transferred to Mudcat - that would explain why there are no music threads on the Annexe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: annamill
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:09 PM

Oh I thought I was being funny. I'm sorry Jon. I didn't mean to be mean. I really meant the good luck.

Annamill


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:19 PM

Jon - You've been, and will continue to be, a friend to me. You'll do fine and I would hope you'd let me know how things go and when you will be up and running. The Indians have a great saying - "There are no endings - only new beginnings."

Do well -

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: annamill
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:24 PM

"You've been, and will continue to be, a friend to me"

Norton1, isn't that what Leonard Nemoy said to William Shatner in one of the Star Trek movies?

**BG** ;-) ---> JOKE

Love, Annamill


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:27 PM

Yes, annamill

The Star Trek writers made use of an ancient Indian saying...

Jeez, talk about banal comments...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: annamill
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM

Oh Guest, lighten up willya! Of course it was banal! It was making fun of all the shatner crap going on. Why don't you sign your name! <--- not a question.

PS...is this flaming...?

Annamill


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:46 PM

Annamill,

Your comments or mine?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: dwditty
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:59 PM

Best Luck, Jon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 02:04 PM

If it's a member only site, that means only one person can be named GUEST, right? ;-)
Liland


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 02:10 PM

good luck with your new venture jon, see you at gatherings?

Cheers

Eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 02:18 PM

Guests appearances not allowed - who would we ignore then?
OK OK I asked for it, no one bother to reply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 02:57 PM

Best of luck Jon. Keep us posted about what you are up to.

I can't see myself ceasing to frequent the Mudcat. Naturally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: fat B****rd
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 03:11 PM

Ta-ra Jon. KBI


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 03:22 PM

to defend Jon...

to claim that this thread would not be allowed on Jon's forum because it is not about music is absurd! It is about music because it is about the establishment of a new internet music forum in response to another music forum's non-musical content. If we were members of Jon's forum and wished to post about another music website/forum/list, that would count as a music thread, I imagine. So even without Jon's "small community element," this thread would be an appropriate one on a music forum.

I point this out only because people seem to be snidely sniping at the very idea of a list that is sharply focused on musical discussions, by trying to show how this one is superior even by Jon's standards. But they're wrong. For people who want to discuss music, Mudcat can be frustrating. I think many of us members who joined in the last couple of years thought Mudcat would be much more about music.

Don't get me wrong, or call me ungrateful, etc. I don't much mind the Shatner crap, the anti-Zionist diatribes, the discussions of Spaw's health, the BS, in short. I understand how it fits with Joe and Max's "no-censorship" philosophy, and even though I may disagree with a lot of it, I just skip it. And i still like the Mudcat, BS and all. But I also understand that another forum, along Jon's lines, could potentially be a great thing.

Let us know when it's running, Jon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 03:31 PM

This is to Jon, in the open instead of by PM, because I am an open person, and as someone who has been a good friend to him.

Jon, I think you are taking the eaiser way instead of facing some issues you have created and perpetuated, but I wish you all the best regardless. It's my experience that the easy way is a circular one which always leads us right back to another opportunity to choose the harder, more personally-productive way. So I look forward to continuing to being your friend, then, too.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: DougR
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:35 PM

Nothing wrong with a little competition, I say. Jon good luck.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:56 PM

All the best to you Jon. I'll continue to frequent both sites even though on a limited basis in the future. We all must move forward regardless of the good times in the past. Here's to the future!


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: mooman
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:33 PM

Good luck in your new venture Jon though it's a pity to see you leave this forum. However, I respect your decision.

You know my contact details so let me know when your new site is up and running and I'll contribute to it while remaining an active member here.

All the very best,

Richard


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 06:36 PM

Good luck Jon -I've tried the Annexe a couple of times and it wasn't me and I am happy with Mudcat the way it is -the technocrap doesn't interest me! I wish you well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 06:56 PM

Reminds me of Cartman, the fat kid on "South Park":

"Screw you guys -- I'm going home."


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:27 PM

WYSIWYG, was that a joke?

Everyone else wished Jon well

You choose to tell us how good a friend YOU are.

Sermon/Mount/Meek come to mind...


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:32 PM

Best of luck to you, and I hope that your site will be as successful as Mudcat has been, and that it will become everything that you want it to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:56 PM

Good luck, the more the merrier --- but I find it easier just not to open the Shatner threads.....

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:13 PM

See now, this is the first thing that has made sense to me in all the back and forth criticism of this place.

Good on ye, John, for taking a proactive approach. I only wish it did not have to be accompanied by still more criticism and posting about stuff that really *should* have been left in PM's.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:16 PM

When I first became involved in Mudcat I was looking for information about music. Why I keep coming to and supporting to Mudcat is because along with the music information and general horsing around my needs have been served. And served very well. I'd prefer to see chords accompany lyrics more often tho'.

I expect I'll visit Jon's site about as often as I do the Cat because I am looking for information and here will be another resource. I hope Jon's site has a similar format because the Cat is so easy to use. For me it is the easiest I have found.

One thing I recall early on in my visit to Mudcat was a thread that some members began telling less knowledgable members that to answer their questions was a waste of time and their topics weren't scholarly enough. I hope this will not be the case with Jon's new site.

I look forward to it with great expectation and anticipation of a fine new resource.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,Going AWOL!!!!
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:17 PM

A capital idea, Jon!!! I'll gladly decamp. No more self-righteous, holier than thou, I know best, patronization, or threats from the people who ruined this site! Yahoo!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:21 PM

I think that what Jon's doing is great!

Too often the response to flamers has been: 'well start your own site'

Well Jon has/will

Good on you Jon!

Look forward to a 'Shatner-less' discussion


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Robin2
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:47 PM

Jon,

Good luck, and how do we find out when your site is running?

I love Mudcat, but there's never too many music forums!

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: alison
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:01 PM

sorry to see you go Jon, good luck with the site.... let us know the address when you get it going...

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:11 PM

I will be sorry to see you go Jon, though I do understand your reasons for leaving, good luck with your new website.All the best.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:48 PM

Jon,
I wish you the best of luck with your new site. You were the first Mudcatter to make me welcome here. I haven't forgotten. Be well, my friend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:06 PM

Good luck Jon! I will be interested in your new forum/site. As much as I like Mudcat (though I too wish the Bull Shit threads would disappear, but I like the Breeze Shooting ones), I also like alot of variety, and I like your general slant on things.

Peace Brother.

Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 12:59 AM

I don't even know what the Annexe is or how to find it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:08 AM

The Annexe


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:08 AM

What an excellent idea Jon - though a lot of work & a bit of a challenge. Fun though - and I know you're more than capable.

So, best of luck with the new site, and I'm sure it will fill the niche for those of us who are more than a little fed up with the BS & in-fighting. And it will take nothing away from the Mudcat, so we should be in that rare situation where everyone is happy!

KRis


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 03:50 AM

Best of luck Jon: I'll try to visit you in your new 'Home'

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 08:59 AM

The first timwe I got to speak to Martin Carthy I asked a folk music questions and he dutifully answered. One minute later he was deep in engaging conversation about the various merits of shoes and where to buy good value. I ASK YOU. IN A FOLK CLUB.
It is not without a huge measure of relavance to Mudcat.
Its all about ballance and interaction. If Mudcat got it out of kilter I would vote with my fingers.
I am sure a forum with restriction of subjects to music &/or folk has a worthwhile place but it does carry a dryness quotient.
I can be an anorak with the best of them but......
Anyway - good luck and if you want a link on my site - cresby.com get in touch.
FWIW the Shatner threads I avoided, but then I avoided a lot of Lyric Requests if I could not contribute.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: C-flat
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 11:17 AM

I'll look forward to visiting your site and wish you "Good Luck".


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 11:46 AM

Jon - Good Luck.

I've already expressed my thoughts to you in PM, and won't reiterate them here. I'll look forward to visiting your new site.

Cheers

Steven


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:12 PM

I've been perfectly happy with Mudcat since I first discovered its existence in fall of 1999. On DT I've found the words to huge numbers of songs that I'd been seeking for years, there for the downloading. On the forums I have found a wealth of information that I probably couldn't have found anywhere else without years of digging. In turn, I've had the opportunity to share what knowledge and experience I have with those who may be interested. I feel that I've made friends with a lot of people whom I have never met and I've made contacts and have been given opportunities that wouldn't have happened otherwise (several things, including being asked to write a guest column in a local folk music magazine). It is a unique and powerful resource on many levels, and I am eternally grateful to Max and those others who started it and keep it going—and to the Mighty Minions of Mudcat who make up the whole community.

I get immensely disgusted with people who occupy vast amounts of bandspace (provided by Max) bitching about what's wrong with Mudcat, how Max doesn't know what he's doing and/or how he and Joe Offer and Pene Azul and rest of the "inner clique" are involved in some nefarious plot to prevent Mudcat from reaching its (in their view) full potential. My admittedly knee-jerk reaction to this is "Okay, wiseguy, anybody can whine and complain. If you think you can do a better job, then why don't you start your own website and show Max how you think it should be done?"

Jon Freeman is doing that. For this, I salute him and wish him the best of luck. If he can provide resources and opportunities anywhere near what Mudcat has, then what can I do but be grateful and offer every encouragement I can? We'll all be better off. After all, it's not an "either-or" situation, is it?

I shall watch with great interest.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: AliUK
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:15 PM

went to The Anexe and...suprise, suprise...it had non-music threads on it! Wow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:25 PM

aliUK - the Annexe was ESTABLISHED for non-music threads. Jon has not yet got his music forum running.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: AliUK
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:33 PM

Ahhh...ok...my mistake. Was interesting though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 06:34 PM

This raises the ancient philosophiickle question, "What is non-music, really?". Is there a definitve answer to tyhis question?

Of course we all know the pat answer -- "a horse wrote it" -- but is that really good enough?

While we're at it, I think I'll start a thread on "Why We Don't Sing". Hmm -- interesting -- we could die it in with all the non-events and meaningless hours we spend at the terminal. "I don't sing because I am too busy clicking on links" or "I don't sing because I am dried up and unfeeling within" kind of thing. It'd be great!!

(flees stage left, pursued by a herd of airborne capos...)

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 06:44 PM

Amos,

Get back to the Mudcat CD


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Callie
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:52 PM

I haven't been following who said what to whom, but if you're really going Jon then thanks for your generosity and friendliness, esp on the old "Hear Me" sessions. Good luck with your new venture. I hope it is fulfilling. Callie


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Terry K
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:11 AM

I can quite understand how one can be completely "Shatnered out". Some of the inanity here (under the guise of humour) is a real piss-off.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Mudcat as a music resource, as a source of help, and as a community is unique and I hope to continue to be accepted here.

But when some fairly tame joke is perpetuated ad nauseam, it's a bit like being back in second year. It's also fairly yuck-making to see claims of "I love you" and "you're my great friend" from people who you just know have never met.

The popular bleat is "don't open those threads" but that doesn't quite work. I liken it to a pub; you will generally find all types, from all walks of life. But if those who make the most noise in the place are simply annoying, you will tend to go somewhere else. I haven't yet found the Mudcat so annoying as to not visit, but I guess many other people have. I know you need to open lots of oysters to find the odd pearl, but there are limits.

I just wish that some of the worst perpetrators ("you know who you are") would recognise themselves and try not to be so self-indulgent, because I do think it is genuinely damaging.

Some hope!

Best of luck, Jon, let us know where you are - hey, do you think that if you post your new site address here your post might be censored?

cheers, Terry


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:33 AM

Terry, all you need to do is use the extremely well-publicized "BS: filter" to skip those threads even being in front of you. Right now it's something you use as a URL. Soon it will be an automatic default setting you can choose.

The URL you can use now is:

http://www.mudcat.org/threadsnot.cfm?Title=BS:

If you bookmark that and use it as your site entry, you will see only a few nonmusic threads that were titled wrongly when started-- but Joe Offer catches most of those nowadays and retitles them. From the thread list that comes up, just right-click the threads you want to respond to, to keep the BS-free list on the screen. Use the bookmark, not the refresh button, to refresh the page, to keep it BS-free.

The new feature will be even simpler.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:38 AM

the extremely well-publicized "BS: filter

Is that a joke? Pray tell me where it is pubicised?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:49 AM

...how soon, Susan?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,gargoyle
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:59 AM

Joe Offer catches most of those nowadays and retitles them.

Well, I guess ol' Joe is asleep at the switch today. These little lovies lend add a ludicrous lilt to your "wisdom" WYSIWYG!

Who are the terrorists? Part 113

Help: who knows there obscure holidays?

Bat Goddess' Birthday Today!

17 at last!!!

Help: who knows there obscure holidays?

Welcome to EUCLID!!

RA QUIZ

Btrieve Localization

Help: Hotel in Boucherville near Montreal

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!

june 21st in Paris

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:05 AM

JON - BEST WISHES!!!

You performed a grand service by providing a playground for the most offensive propolgators to parade. THANK YOU!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:28 AM

The BS: filtering URL has been mentioned in just about every "Mudcat Sucks Now" thread, it's in the FAQ, it's been suggested all over the place whenever the issue is raised.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:35 AM

Sorry to see such a squabble in Toyland, but such is Nature, it seems.

Might we hope for a link to Jon's new site here when it gets up and running?

I'm still a big fan of Mudcat, although there are a few things we yet await in the area of technical convieniences;

It would be grand to be able to format text without having to bother with all of the HTML code insertions, which obviously some of us have mastered better than others.

Being able to post a graphics file on occasion to share a scanning of old sheet music, a new instrument etc. on a thread, as some other forums I subscribe to allow, would be a nice feature as well. It does take a bit of bandwidth, we understand - but would be a very useful utility.
Perhaps it will happen - eventually, but the 'Cat is such a tremendous resource already that I'm willing to put up with a few minor inconvieniences for the moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: PeteBoom
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:00 AM

In fairness, Jon's point is a good one. I tend to agree that in this cyber-realm, creating a new forum does not by definition detract from any other forum. It MAY add great value - and, when combined, result in value greater than the summ of the individual pieces. Best of luck to you.

Also in fairness, most of the "Shatner" threads I've seen lately were old threads that were refreshed lately. Not that I'm thrilled with the BS: threads in general. However, I'm also not interested in many of the music threads. Those I am, then I keep an eye on.

Ah well, just me mebbe...

Pete


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:26 AM

BS: Mudcat accounts and commitee?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15-Jun-02 - 01:42 PM
...It would be absolute madness to try to create another music site

BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
Jon Freeman
Date: 18-Jun-02 - 09:30 AM

I intend starting another folk forum...it will aim to focus on Music

Still, nothing wrong with a bit of absolute madness, I suppose. There's a fair amount round the Mudcat anyway; I'm encouraged at the indication that Jon's new venture will have it's share as well.

If it's a tenth as good as the Mudcat it'll be a greatr resource for us all. Except the ones who have some principled objection to using even a pseudonym of course. I suppose we're stuck with them here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 12:13 PM

As for Gargoyle's little list - I've just checked, and almost all of those have had the BS label added. And at least one of the three which haven't is a music thread anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 12:17 PM

Farewell to Mudcat...

Sounds like the makings of a good SONG CHALLENGE! to me - or would that just stir up too much nasty stuff from the bottom of the pond?


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 12:19 PM

It is hopeless. Can't you just wish him well and say goodbye? No wonder the trolls/flamers love this place. Everyone is so easy to predict. Jon is doing exactly what we have all suggested from time to time for those who don't like the way Max run's it. A little bad form on his part in his first post, but we are all human.

Jon,

Good luck on your new site. I will look in on it.

Goodbye.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 02:34 PM

Here's a farewell to the Mudcat song I posated a couple of years ago:

My PC is crashed,
all my cookies's are crumbled,
I'm trapped in this Web,
and my pride has been humbled
I think somebody's poisoned
this watering hole.
And the Mudcat's been skinned,
it's been slaughtered and sold.
My head it is sore,
and my heart it needs healing
Let's all sing out once more
And let's sing it with feeling
Let's break down the walls,
And let's bring down the ceiling
For they say that the day
of the Mudcat is gone.

One by one we go down,
and the last was Mike Billo -
and we buried him under
an old weeping willow,
and we carved on his tombstone
this epitaph plain,
"Rest in Peace! Rise in Glory,
Old Friend What's-His-Name"
My head it is sore,
and my heart it needs healing
Let's all sing out once more
And let's sing it with feeling
Let's break down the walls,
And let's bring down the ceiling
For they say that the day
of the Mudcat is gone.

When I first came upon it
out there in the desert
I thought I had found
an Oasis of Quiet
with the Mudcat in splendour,
and singing and shouting
But trouble soon came
and marauders and fighting.
My head it is sore,
and my heart it needs healing
Let's all sing out once more
And let's sing it with feeling
Let's break down the walls,
And let's bring down the ceiling
And rise to the skies
with the Mudcat reborn.
And let's rise to the skies,
with the Mudcat reborn.


(And the tune - Deportees.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:47 PM

Jon: Good luck in your endeavour. I really don't know what the flap is about so I'll offer no comment other than to wish you well. Kindest regards, Neil


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 05:15 PM

Nice one, McG., and more thoughtful than I expected. I was thinking more in terms of a skit, but I like it.

Evidently, as I suspected, people have been leaving for a long time. Reminds me of Brendan Behan's quip about the split being the first item on the agenda of every organisation in you know where.

Perhaps rather than a song we need a whole grand opera in which successive lead characters stand in the doorway singing long arias in which they repeatedly announce their departure, in counterpoint to a chorus which alternately entreats them to stay and wishes them Godspeed!


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 05:25 PM

Well, I said my well-wishes on the Annexe, but I'll say 'em here, too: good luck to both Jon and Pip in their new ventures!

Also, if I may venture an opinion, I think that it is to Max's credit that, even though he and Jon "had words" with one another, Jon was still free to post this thread to Max's forum uncensored. I have no doubt that when Jon's new site is up and running, he will be free to post an uncensored thread here announcing it. Max strikes me as being a lot fairer and kinder than some of the rest of us might feel justified to be, if we were in the same position as he.

Anyway, as Mick says, it's been suggested many times on many Mudcat threads that those who do not agree with the way things are done here might try starting their own music site and run it the way they see fit. Perhaps Jon's site will suit some people's tastes better; then again, perhaps some people will still be dissatisfied (of course, those people are welcome to do just what Jon is about to do!). But, as others here have said, there's nothing wrong with more music sites, and there's no reason not to visit more than one. That's what my father would call "the beauty part" of the internet: there's room for enough sites to suit everybody.

So I'm looking forward to seeing what Jon's new site will have to offer, as I'm looking forward to enjoying more of what Mudcat already offers! Above all, Jon and Pip and Max, have fun with your sites!!!

Sharon


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Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:05 PM

Best wishes anmd sucess to you John - but it tends, and no offence intended, of the old political joke - What happens when two political organisations merge ? You get three political organisations !!

Gareth


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Mudcat time: 17 May 6:32 AM EDT

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