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BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust

Wolfgang 21 Jun 02 - 06:12 AM
GUEST,colwyn dane 20 Jun 02 - 08:07 PM
Wolfgang 20 Jun 02 - 11:57 AM
Les from Hull 20 Jun 02 - 09:43 AM
Wolfgang 20 Jun 02 - 07:51 AM
Arnie 20 Jun 02 - 04:33 AM
Wolfgang 20 Jun 02 - 04:23 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 02 - 08:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Jun 02 - 08:02 PM
Les from Hull 19 Jun 02 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,Arnie 19 Jun 02 - 04:25 PM
Les from Hull 19 Jun 02 - 04:13 PM
catspaw49 19 Jun 02 - 03:59 PM
Big Tim 19 Jun 02 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Ard Mhacha 19 Jun 02 - 12:29 PM
Wolfgang 19 Jun 02 - 09:57 AM
Peter T. 19 Jun 02 - 09:51 AM
Mrrzy 19 Jun 02 - 09:48 AM
Red Eye 19 Jun 02 - 09:42 AM
alanabit 19 Jun 02 - 07:16 AM
Wolfgang 19 Jun 02 - 05:48 AM
Mark Cohen 19 Jun 02 - 03:17 AM
catspaw49 18 Jun 02 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Jim Jones 18 Jun 02 - 10:31 AM
Wolfgang 18 Jun 02 - 10:29 AM
catspaw49 18 Jun 02 - 10:02 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 06:12 AM

Thanks,

I had looked for that information without success.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: GUEST,colwyn dane
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:07 PM

Wolfgang/Les
This site has an answer to the question of the domestic league distribution
of the 735 World Cup players: see there the Harold LeRoy, Nassau, Bahamas question.

cd.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:57 AM

Les,

122 seemed to be too many to me, but I can easily be mistaken. However, assuming that 122 was the correct number at the start, that means that 100 players from English leagues played in the 31 teams (except the English, of course). Roughly 3 players per team. Now, before the quarter final we have 12 players from English leagues in the 7 non-English teams left, which makes roughly 1.5 per team. That's where my nasty remark (teams with fewer players from the English leagues did better) came from.

On second thought, despite the many surprises, relatively more of the 'weak' teams have been eliminated. Assuming that 'weak' teams come from countries in which most players play abroad, that pattern that I have spotted for players from the English leagues should be expected also for all other major (money) leagues. But I don't have numbers to check that.

At this moment, 5 players from the German Bundesliga remain in the world cup in the 7 non-German teams. Not a high number.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Les from Hull
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:43 AM

Wolfgang - that was the figure from the full squads for all 32 teams. Some countries like Denmark had about half their squad from English (not necessarily Premiership) teams. As some countries don't have such strong national leagues, it doesn't seem fair to leave out the 21 English players who play in England.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:51 AM

Les from Hull,

frankly, I don't believe the 122 players who play for English teams. The recent figures for the seven teams (except England) in the quarter finals is 12 players left from the English leagues. That would mean that the more players from the English leagues a team had the more likely it was to fail until now. Not very probable.

BTW, which league right now has still most players in the world cup (own national team exempted)? France, of course, 25 left, 21 of them playing for Senegal.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Arnie
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:33 AM

Les from 'ull- sorry I forgot about poor old Nigel Martyn - unfortunately it seems that Sven G Eriksson has as well! To be fair, the pony-tailed one is playing pretty good for one of his advanced years and only injury will see Nigel getting a chance between the sticks. Shame about Lucas R and we all hope he makes a quick recovery.

Wolfgang - Germany v USA should be a cracking match and I would not like to bet on the outcome. The US have made such quick progress in 'soccer' that they've taken us all by surprise - especially the Mexicans!!

What's this got to do with folk? Well, in about 100 years time folkies may just sing about England v Brazil in the same way we still sing today about arcane subjects like the Napoleonic wars....just a thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:23 AM

Two completely uncorrelated bits:

Horse plays football (in Britain, where else)

Speaking about Germans, Italians and car racing. If a German driver wins formula 1 in an Italian car (topping a German car) it makes both nations (those less than 20% who care about racing) happy. If an Italian driver would win on a German car both nations would cry.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 08:06 PM

Is there any chance that you'll ever shut up, McGrath?

Please stop using your 'hilarious' folk song/horses line in every thread that you find. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 08:02 PM

I've never seen a horse play football.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 05:37 PM

Why not go the whole 18yds and put Nigel Martyn in goal? As (another) Leeds fan the worst moment so far was seeing Lucas Radebe carried off. And he's had such problems returning to football.

If Michael Owen isn't completely fit, Robbie might well get on the field as a sub, especially as a hot humid game is hard on our strikers. But Sheringham seems to be our third choice striker.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:25 PM

Put Robbie Fowler up front for the game against Brazil. That will give us a Leeds Utd right back (Danny Mills), a Leeds Utd centre half (Rio) and a Leeds Utd striker - we just can't lose! And what is Heskey in the team for anyway??? - just keeping Alan Smith out! I suppose as a Leeds fan I may just be slightly biased....and why has Mudcat suddenly decided that I'm a guest again?? Must sort this out..


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 04:13 PM

Someone calculated that there were 122 World Cup players who play for English teams. England has just Owen Hargreaves who plays in Germany. I can't believe that anyone should have this kind of attitude, similar to some of the things that were said here when David Beckham's pre-World Cup injury was caused by an Argentinian.

I agree that refereeing decisions haven't favoured Italy, but this sort of thing happens. TV technology points it out to everybody, but the referee is only doing his best, and his assistants don't have the benefit of slow-motion replay.

Perhaps Italy should have played up to their potential - they have some great players - and perhaps Gaucci should make sure his players are as enthusiastic when they play for his club.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 03:59 PM

Now at this point I'd have to say that sport is being taken WAY too seriously! Like what was the guy supposed to do? Throw the match? The Italians need to get a grip. Someone ought to point out to this asshole that at least a big part of the reason another source of great Italian pride, Ferrari, has been doing so superbly in the past few years is due to a German driver, Michael Schumacher. Of course Ferrari has won championships before....The last one was with Jody Scheckter(South African), then before that with Niki Lauda(Austrian), John Surtees(British), Phil Hill(American). Mike Hawthorn(British),and Juan Fangio(Argentinian).   You have to go back 50 years to find an Italian World Champion in a Ferrari (Alberto Ascari).


Angry Italian club owner cuts Ahn

[ESPN.com news services]

ROME -- Italian soccer club Perugia has cut ties with South Korea's Ahn Jung-hwan after he scored the overtime goal that knocked Italy out of the World Cup, Perugia's chairman said in media reports Wednesday.

"That gentleman will never set foot in Perugia again," Luciano Gaucci told sports' daily La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Italy has been furious about Tuesday's 2-1 loss to South Korea, accusing the referee and soccer's ruling body FIFA of fixing the match.

Back home, the Italian media were livid.

"Thieves -- the killer referee hounds the Azzurri out of the World Cup," the Rome-daily Corriere dello Sport said on its front-page.

"Shame! The scandalous Ecuadorean referee -- Italy is out of the World Cup," said the country's top-selling sports daily, Milan's La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Ahn, who missed a penalty earlier in the match, was hailed as a national hero when he headed home the golden goal winner in the 116th minute.

But his goal was viewed in a different light at Perugia in central Italy, where he has been viewed as an underachiever during his stay with the club.

"He was a phenomenon only when he played against Italy. I am a nationalist and I regard such behavior not only as an affront to Italian pride but also an offense to a country which two years ago opened its doors to him," Gaucci was quoted as saying.

"I have no intention of paying a salary to someone who has ruined Italian soccer."

Ahn joined Perugia on loan from the South Korean team Pusan I.cons in the summer of 2000. He scored five goals in 29 appearances.

A Perugia spokesman said Wednesday the club had virtually decided to release Ahn even before the World Cup tie.

Information from Reuters and The Associated Press was used in this report.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Big Tim
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:52 PM

Golden goal = after 90 minutes and level scoreline, next goal is the winner - end of contest. As kids we used this method, when the scoreline got to about 20 each! If early reports of the Perugia Chairman's decision are accurate: then the man will live to regret it.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 12:29 PM

I have just seen this on BBC, the Chairman of Perugia the Italian League team has stated that Ahn the scorer of South Koreas winng goal won`t ever play for Perugia again, Chairman Gaucci says that he wouldn`t let Ahn play again because "he knocked my country out of the Cup. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:57 AM

golden goal = sudden death

In extra time, the first goal decides the game.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:51 AM

The most amusing thing in Toronto is that we have enclaves of every single nationality and ergo, team, so on any given day part of the town is in mourning, and another part is in ecstasy. At 10 o'clock in the morning, you have Koreans racing around town, or Turks or Senegalese with flags draped from their cars. On the bus in the morning, people ask each other, what the hell flag is that? Turkey? Senegal?

Another amusing thing is that the day after Portugal lost (dire day in my neighbourhood) all the Portugueuse flags were replaced by Brazil flags. One of the advantages of having had a colonial empire. yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:48 AM

OK - ignoramus alert - What is a "golden" goal? And I'm still rooting for Senegal!


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Red Eye
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:42 AM

Wolfgang,

Don't mention the war!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 07:16 AM

I think your TV experts are right. I also think you are right about the likely outcome of the final.


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 05:48 AM

If nobody else mentions it, I shall: The Italians scored the first Golden Goal but the refereee denied it following the AR's call. It is sad for the Italians that a referee mistake has made them fly home.

Some "experts" in German TV yesterday predicted a Brasil-Germany final (I see England and Spain stronger, but we'll see) with Brasil winning. There is one interesting detail about such a pairing. Brasil and Germany have played more of world cup games than any other nation, but never against each other. Between them, Brasil (5) and Germany (6) have been seen in 11 of the 15 finals after the war but always against someone else. On friendlies, Germany has a dismal record against Brasil.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 03:17 AM

Well, Jim, you've also heard US commentators talk about the "end line", the "sideline", the "18 yard box" and the "6 yard box". We're pretty low on the learning curve when it comes to soccer terminology. Pardon me, I mean football. At least they've learned not to say "offsides"! But quarter-final is a common term here in the States. "Round of 8" is probably someone generalizing from "round of 16" and not quite realizing that the 8-team phase is the quarter-final. Higher math, I know.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:32 AM

LOL Wolf.......Yeah....This isn't one that does well with predictions is it. Like they say in American Football..."On any given Sunday".......The one thing I wouldn't do is bet against Korea in this series.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: GUEST,Jim Jones
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:31 AM

Spaw, so you do refer to it as a 'Quarter Final'?

All the US commentaries I've heard have refered to the 'round of 8'

Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:29 AM

Last time Italy got beaten by Korea (North, but who cares for such details) was 1966 which later saw an England-Germany final.

Wolfgang (who decided from now on to make different predictions in different threads and never to come back to the threads with the wrong predictions; nobody will spot that)


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Subject: WorldCup-another one bites the dust
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:02 AM

Well the biggies keep dropping like flies.......Italy loses to Korea and joins France, Argentina, Portugal...........Can Germany be next? (Sorry Wolfgang...had to throw that in)

One "interesting" QF coming up!!!



Spaw


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Mudcat time: 26 June 12:56 AM EDT

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