Origins: In Chinaland there lived a great man

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 07:58 PM

In China town there lived a man
His name was Chikalee Chikalee Chan
His feet were long and his toes were short
and this is the way that Chinaman talked

Ohhhh, Chikalee Che Cha Li Cha lo
Chikalee Walika in the Bananica
Walika Walika chenesee
In the Bananica watchsa

And this old man
and he did die
and in his coffin he did lie
they sent him back to old Japan
and this is the way his epitaph ran

Ohhh,Chikalee Che Cha Li Cha lo
Chikalee Walika in the Bananica
Walika Walika chenesee
In the Bananica watcha

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 05:50 AM

All very good adding versions to this thread, but I think anyone wanting to perpetuate it without editing it needs to at least think about the implications.

Brian, where?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Brian James
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:30 PM

This was handed down to me by my grandma who was born in 1908.

In China there lived a great man, his name was Chic Cha Charin Apan.
His legs were long, his feet were small, the China man couldn't walk at all.

The neighbours, they used to carry him out, upon their backs; the folks would shout: "here he comes, there he goes, the China man with a monkey nose".

Chicalachoo choochali, nickapan, nickapan, panky pan, pegersty wigersty, canty cay, chanago anago anago way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Jul 17 - 01:17 PM

They certainly will, Guest, but posters, please don't forget to give where & when you first heard your version and any other relevant details.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 08 Jul 17 - 08:29 PM

Thanks to all who shared their versions. Folklorists will treasure these posts!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 01:33 PM

Thank you so much my mother passed and now I have a grandchild I wanted to sing it to him but forget half the words

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 08:32 AM

Thanks for this. This is the one my Mom taught us. We lived in Oklahoma. She was a teacher.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 01:49 PM

It's a cute song, but it's also very racist. I guess that's why it's so insidious, and why so many of us react so negatively to it.
All the pickaninny stuff was cute, too - but demeaning.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 01:08 PM

My post above was to the guy who was complaining about there being so many posts. Here's the version I heard my mom sing when I was a kid. Found similar ones above, but nothing the same. This was in the late 30's. I guess she made up the parts that were not clear to her:

There lived in China a very great man.
His name was Chingerie Ching Chiann.
His head was large and his feet were small.
This Chinaman couldn't walk at all.

Chingerie Chingle My Golday.
Tiddle dee dee come happy may.
To be isky imy oh.
Scallopin wallopin Chineo.

The ladies from the very next town
Came up the hill to roll him down.
From head to food they all began
To tumble and toss this Chinaman.

Chorus again.
I think there were more verses but I can't remember them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 12:54 PM

So why don't you just go do something else?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 14 - 08:37 PM

My father used to sing this nonsence song when we were young (1950's) but china man had become Japanese man (post WW2). Colins words are closest, we sang, In Japanese land there lived a big man ....... his nose was long and his feet were short, his servants used to carry him about upon their backs where he would shout.......

chorus went something
with a chow chikka al lore......
this japanese man couldnt walk at all


They rolled him up to the top of the hill and rolled him down like a ..

My memory is not what I would like, and I realise the racsist humour now, but as kids it was fun to hear my dad entertaining us with this catchy tune and fun lyrics which at that time to us was nonsence

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Colin
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 06:32 PM

My mother sang a version of this nonsense song to me as a child in the 1960s :) Obviously it exists in myriad forms. Here is hers:

Chickarackah choochai chang chickolorum
Boomtahlorum waddy waddy wah
Oko Poko hit him on the iddygo
Tiddywa tiddywah sheepeecoo

In old Peking there lived a funny man
His name was Chickarackah choochai chang
His arms were long but his legs were short
Poor Chinese couldn't walk or talk

Chickarackah choochai chang chickolorum
Boomtahlorum waddy waddy wah
Oko Poko hit him on the iddygo
Tiddywa tiddywah sheepeecoo

His parents used to carry him about
Upon their back where he could shout
Here he comes and there he goes
The Chinaman with the big fat nose

Chickarackah choochai chang chickolorum
Boomtahlorum waddy waddy wah
Oko Poko hit him on the iddygo
Tiddywa tiddywah sheepeecoo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,jaxthelass
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:37 PM

Chickeracka chee chi
Chi chokalorum
Con de noram
Menapee-kat
Kat-go too-go itchy Kotchie Kitchikoo
Acha-bi China man, Chi nee koo.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Mar 13 - 06:39 PM

It would be interesting to observe which bits people thought were racist, which simply observational, and which bits simply nonsense. The original song was obviously racist in parts. The actual title was 'The China man with Monkey Nose' which of course is offensive. Does the fact that the word 'Chinaman' is the central focus mean that the song is racist? Try substituting 'Englishman'. Does it work, and is it offensive?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 13 - 12:53 PM

My Granma's version, sang to me in the early 60's went like this:
In China there lived a great man
His name was Chickerackerchechichochikororum, bumbtyorum paddy waddy wack
Ocko, ocko stick him on his bocko, itimy, itimy cherryrack
Here he comes and here he goes, the Chinese man with monkey's nose
Chickerackerchechicho

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 05 Mar 13 - 03:52 AM

The racist songs seem to come from the era of railroad-building and gold mining, when the majority of those working on the rail routes being thrown across the USA were Irish, mostly from the west coast of Ireland, and Chinese. It's said that an Irishman died for every yard of rail track; I'm sure the conditions for the Chinese workmen were even worse.

There was intense competition and mutual distrust between the Irish and Chinese workmen, as there was between the Irish and black working people on the east coast after the Civil War when the end of slavery brought highly skilled black plantation workers north in search of work. Such distrust is, of course, useful to those who would exploit working people and is, perhaps unconsciously, often fostered by their agents and enthusiasts. After all, if the Irish and Chinese had got together to demand proper wages and working conditions, where would we be at all?

The story of the Chinese gold miner is interesting, because Chinese laundries are (in folk memory) considered to be the only real profit-keepers from the gold rushes of California and the Yukon - laundry was sent on ships to China, washed and returned, I've been told.

Following on the Irish Shanty thread and this, could I again request that if there are to be such threads, with their underlying sense of a snigger at racism (not from all posters, of course), they be subsumed into a larger thread on racist songs? Or maybe the drop-down menu of subjects (Lyr Add Request and so on) could include Racist Songs?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,dbs Cape Town
Date: 04 Mar 13 - 03:37 AM

Once in China there lived a great man,
His name was Chikarakka Chee Chi Chan,
His legs were long and his feet so short,
Poor Chinese man couldn,t walk at all.

Chicka lacka che chi cho chickalorum,
Pongilorum padawaddi wak,
Oko oko hit him on the boko,
Hit 'em high, hit him high, Jerico.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 02:38 PM

This is a version of a song that was taught to my Grandmother by her ancestors who immigrated from England to the US in 1868. She was born in 1898.

There once in China lived a man whose name was Iko Chico Chicory Chan
Ladama Coty Dusty-o Willopee Wallopee Chine-o.

One day the people of the town went up the hill to roll him down
From top to bottom they all began to tickle and play with the chinaman

Ikco Chico Chickery Chan Iko Chico Chinaman
Ladama Coty Dusty-o Willopee Wallopee Chine-o.

One day the Chinaman did die and in his coffin he did lie
They shipped him over to Japan and that was the end of the Chinaman

Iko Chico Chickery Chan Iko Chico Chinaman
Ladama Coty Dusty-o Willopee Wallopee Chine-o.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Emily
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 09:23 PM

In Chinatown there lived a man
and his name was Ching Ling Chan
His legs were short and his feet were small
It's a wonder that he could walk at all

Ching Ling Ching Ling Ching Ling Chan
rango tango happy man
Do a little disco, rodeo
gallopy wallopy chiney-oh

Now Ching Ling's heart was filled with love
for Miss Sky High who lived above
Under her window he would go
and sing her a song on his little banjo

Ching Ling Ching Ling Ching Ling Chan
rango tango happy man
Do a little disco, rodeo
gallopy wallopy chiney-oh

Miss Sky high who lived above
held her washboard high above
let it fall on Ching Ling Chan
and that was the end of the China Man.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Fifi
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 02:13 PM

I am 95 yrs. old, and grew up in a town with mostly Italian immigrants. When I was about 10 in 1926, a few Chinese immigrants came to town & opened laundromats. They were very nice people, but for some reason back then, we seemed to feel threatened by these new immigrants, & it was then that we started singing songs about China men. Terrible as it was, here is how we sang the China Man song back in the 1920s: Chillabaloo, cha chee chee chaw. Hullaba, hannama, hickama, hannama. Chillabaloo,cha chee chee chaw. Hullaba hannama China man. Once in China, there lived a man, and his name was Chillabachan. His legs were short & his arms were long and this is the way, he used to talk: Chillabaloo, cha chee chee chaw. Hullaba, hannama, hickama, hannama. Chillabaloo, cha chee chee chaw. Hullaba, hannama China man. Once in China, he did die. In his coffin, he did lie. That man's name was Chillabachan. And that was the end of the China man. OOOOhhhh, Chillabaloo cha chee chee chaw. Hullaba, hannama, hickama, hannama. Chillabaloo cha chee chee chaw.Hullaba hannama China    man. I think there were one or 2 more verses. If I think of them, I will add them later. As children, we didn't realize we were being offensive.   When I think of the nice Chinese people who moved into our strictly Italian neighborhood & had to probably deal with prejudice way beyond our children's songs, it makes me very sad now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 02:40 PM

My grandad used to sing this to me and my cousins years ago when we were little - he was in the army in India - don't know if the spelling is correct, but this is what sounded like:-

Chicker racka Choo Chaa
Chicker racka lor
Wandy lora Walla Walla Wah
Oko Oko hit him on the boko
Idify idify Chinese Man

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,mpsleng
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 06:23 PM

in china town there lived a man his name was chuck chuck a ran cancan.his feet were great his toes were small this chinese man cant walk at all.he had two servants to carry him about the people laugh and the people shout here he comes and there he goes the chinese man with the monkey nose .chero charo chuck chuck alero epo nipo muckero dusty candy kay anibo chitibo china.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Harry Green My sisters sang , piano
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 12:52 PM

In Chinatown there lived a great man
His name was Chika Raka Rosha Pan
His legs were long and his feet were short
And the Chinaman couldn't walk at all

Catgo toogo
I go you go
I spy spitigo
I spy I spy
Chi and co

He had two servants to carry him about
One was thin and the other was stout
They carried him up to the top of the hill
Then they rolled him down like a rolling pin

Catgo toogo
I spy Spitigo
Con diddle oram
Guinea pig a nag

He had two sons and these two sons were brothers
One of them died upon his back
The other one on his - - - birthday


I am trying to find any other old memories scattered around to help complete a few more verses, will be back.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 11 - 03:03 AM

There was a man
He had a wife
Oh, they lived a terrible life
She cut off his pigtail that was so long
And then she sang a chinese song

Chee Chi Chee Chi Chow Chickle errow
Wongo Mongo Piggy Wiggy Wearo
Hoko Toko hit him on the Koko
Chairmy chairmy Chee Chi Chow

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,D Mills
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 10:07 AM

I've really enjoyed reading through all these versions of the song. It's amazing to find there are so many!

I was taught it by my father, who in turn was taught it by his father, who was taught it by my great grandfather in London at the turn of the 20th century. I sang it to my Texan partner, who was disgusted by its blatant racism, but there is something ultimately charming about this old-time racist muck!

Here's the version I learnt:

In China there lived a very great man
His name was Chicka-facka-ching-chai-chan
His legs were long and his feet were short
This Chinese man couldn't walk nor talk

Chicka facka ching chai chickalora
Bom diddy nora widdy widdy whack
Oko oko itti-ai itti-ai tiddly-ai tiddly-ai
Chinese talk

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 04:01 PM

There are several of these "Chinaman" songs, and several threads about them. Or maybe it's one song with many variations. I haven't sorted them all out, and frankly, I don't want to.

Here's a message I posted the last time somebody refreshed one of these threads:

I am sick and tired of all this "Chinaman" crap.

It is all racist drivel.

OK, I get it: you all thought it was "cute" when you learned it. And you are nostalgic for the days when you didn't know any better.

Well, now you do know better. Or you ought to.

It is no longer cute. It is disgusting.

I propose all these "Chinaman" threads be closed immediately.

We already have more versions than anybody could possibly have the patience to read.

Give it a rest. Permanently.

OK, I was in a bad mood that day. I had just seen a documentary about how several men had been wrongly convicted of murder because of racism. Joe Offer disagreed with my judgment that the thread should be closed. So be it. But I still wish people would use a little critical judgment before deciding that one more version needs to be documented.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Marcury
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 07:52 PM

My version from Australia from 40 years ago! My sister and i still sing it and are the only ones i know who knew it. Obviously no offence for the spelling or the content, it was just a childhood song for us.

There lived in China, a very old man,
his name was Chickaraka Ching Chong Chan,
his legs were long and his feet were small,
this little man couldn't walk at all.

Chickaraka Ching Chong, Char Chickaronee,
alabala fat man, okoe koney.
Itchy bitchy caterpillar,
ickapie ickapie okoko.

His servants carried him in an arm chair,
funny little fella with a squashed in nose.
Here he comes and there he goes,
funny little fella with a squashed in nose.

Chickara Ching Chong, Char Chickaronee,
alabala fat man, okoe koney.
Itchy bitchy caterpillar,
ickapie ickapie okoko.


I can't believe this song exists in so many forms, i'm actually just glad to know i didn't make it up or that i was going mad!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 12:09 AM

Umm, this thread on the top page again. I'm a Chinese, but I've never heard about anything like this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Vivian
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 11:24 PM

This is my mother's version from Knoxville, TN. She sang to me back in 1950. Forgive the spelling.

In China there once lived a man
Whose name was Iko Chicory Chan
Rudamee Cutty Dusty-o
Willabee Wallabee Chiney-o

Iko Chiko Chicory Chan
Iko Chiko Chinaman
Rudamee Cutty Dusty-o
Willabee Wallabee Chiney-o

One day the Chinaman did die
And in his coffin he did lie
They carried him over to Japan
And that was the end of the Chinaman

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 10 - 02:01 PM

In Chinatown there lived a man
Whose name was Ikki Chikki Chi Cho Chan
His legs were long, his feet were short
Poor old man he could hardly walk

Ikki Chikki Chi Cho Chy Chickalora
Bobtail Dora Paddy Waddy Wack
Oko Moko, Hit him on the boko    (refrain)
Hit him hard, hit him hard
There he goes

He had servants to carry him about
And on the mountain, you could hear them shout
"Here he comes, there he goes
The poor old man with the turned up toes"

Refain

Our version from Girl Scout camp 50 years ago!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Beryl
Date: 11 Aug 10 - 09:41 AM

This is the way I grew up knowing the song from my mother, but I'm not supposed to sing it for my grandchildren because it's so racist:

Oh, in China once there lived a man
His name was Chickety Chickety Chan
His nose was lont and his feet were short
And this is the way the poor Chianman talked:

Oh, oh Chicka Cha-lee Cha-lie Cha-low
Checka la romi in a banana ga
Walla ga walla ga
Can't you see?
In a bananaga wow chee ow

This old Chinaman had plenty of wealth
He lived in a mansion all by himself
The neighbors next door
They bought him a boat
And in it they set the poor Chinaman afloat

Chorus

This old Chinaman was doomed to die
And in his coffin he did lie
They sent the coffin to Japan
And that was the end of the Chinaman!

Chorus

I would love to know more verses
And in they set the poor Chinaman

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Eileen
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:27 PM

In China once there lived a man
His name was Cracker Racker Roo Chi Chan
His legs were long his feet were short
The poor old man he could not walk.

So they rolled him here, they rolled him there
They sat him in a bamboo chair
Ho ho ho chita by laying chi and coe
Chita by laying stone she ha

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Jane
Date: 29 Jul 10 - 08:15 PM

My mother heard this song probably in the 30's. This is how and what she remembered, as well as one uncle. They seem to be the first and last verses. She knew there were other verses but did not recall them. (not sure on the spelling) I would love to piece together more verses.

There was a man from Chineytown
His name was Chicory Chang Chang Chang
And his legs were short and his feet were small
And this little man couldn't walk at all.
(refrain) Chicory Chiney iney go Dan
Billy de dink come after me
Curie me task and gallopy-o
Gallopy wallopy Chiney-o.

At last this little man did die
And in his coffin he did lie
They carried his bones back to the pen,
And that was the end of the Chiney-man. (repeat refrain)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:21 PM

no no no, this is the song haha

in chinatown there lived a man
he's name was en of old chin chan
he's legs were long and he's feet were short
the poor old man could hardly walk

ero chero chica ricka rack
chica ricka pina chica ricka rack

alla balla cusha calla by chin co
alla balla cusha calla chin co

chook chook chook chook chooka lala
chooka lala ika bika da
alla balla cusha calla by chin co
alla balla cusha calla chin co

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Margaret, aged 62
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 06:25 PM

This was my grandfather's version

In China once there lived an old man
Name was chicka lacka chick chye cho
Head was big, feet were small
Chinaman couldn't walk at all.

Chicka lacka chick chye cho cockalorum
Bomp tiddlyorum alla walla way
Iye kye Iye Ike iddi diddi diddabye
Diddabi diddabi Jingo!

His servants used to carry him about
Up the hill and round about
Carried him up to the top of the hill
Rolled him down like a Beecham's pill

Chicka lacka chick chye cho cockalorum
Bomp tiddlyorum alla walla way
Iye kye Iye Ike iddi diddi diddabye
Diddabye diddabye Jingo!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,CHINAMAN
Date: 06 Feb 10 - 01:34 PM

My Grandad taught my mum this, and she taught it me. (:

In China once there lived a great man,
His name was chikerocka choo chi pan
His legs were long and his feet were small
This little Chinaman couldn't walk at all

Chickerocka chickerocka cho chiker orum
Condo romum acki paki wak
Oko koko hit him on the boko
Ikipie ikipie okoko

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Chips
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:05 PM

What are the words to this song please

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 06:43 PM

In China town there lived a man, His name was Chicka-Aka-Choo-Chai-Chan, His legs were long and his feet were small, So the poor little bugger couldn't walk at all!

Chicka Aka Choo Chai chai chickanora, Antee nora hee willy wim, Oko oko hit him on a poko, Itty pie itty pie im pim pim!

He was married, so they say, To his wife on his wedding day, And though he was born on the day of his birth, He died on his very last day on Earth!

I grew up in Scotland and sang that as a kid.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:45 AM

Here us is my version of this song, which we sung as children, which was taught by our parents....this is what i remember

In China lived a very fat man, his name was Chikkarakka Chuki Can
His head was big, his feet were small, poor Chinee couldn't walk at all...

Chorus

Chikarakka chikarakka chukki can
Chub a lard Chub a lard was a very fat man
Uga Ooga isky misky Chinese too

He ordered his servants to carry him out
Through the backyard the people did shout
Here he comes, there he goes
Poor old man with a monkeys nose

Chorus

Who knows where it came from?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:09 AM

Ah, I come from China but I don't know anything about this song...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:06 AM

What I remember from this song my grandfather sang to me and his father sang to him:

In Chinatown there lived a man,
his name was Chickaly chickaly chan
his feet were long and his toes were short
and this is the way the chinamen talk

Chorus

this man he did die and in his coffin he did lie,
they sent him back to old Japan and this is how his
epitaph ran..

chorus

Chickaly chee, cha lie cha low,
chilly aromeo, in a bananago, wallago wallago
chenasee, in a bananago wochio

I know the spelling is not correct and also there were to more verses

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:05 AM

i always sang it as
In China lived a very funny man, his name was chikiraka ching ching chang, his feet were long and his legs were short, the china man could walk not talk, chikiraka ching ching o chiki nora, otto by otto by boom boom boom, uta uta uta, uta uta otta, the china man could walk not talk

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 05:40 PM

Also note similarity of chorus to that of "King of the Cannibal Islands, thread 9724: Cannibal

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 02:25 PM

The nonsense chorus had its origin in the song "Ching a Ring Chaw," which in print dates from 1833, an anonymous minstrel tune also known as "Sambo's Address to His Bred'ren." See: Ching

Chinger ringer, ring ching, ching
Ho ah, dingah ding kum darkee,
Chinger ringer, ring ching chaw,
Ho ah ding kum darkee.

This song has the verse

No more our sons cry weep, no more he be the back-e
No more our dorters weep, kase dey all call em black-e,
No more dey wan to be, no more wash and cook-e.
But ebry day we see em read de novel book-e.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 01:29 PM

The link found by Martin Ryan lists a California songbook in addition to cds. Should be worth having.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 07:49 AM

There a version of "John Chinaman's Appeal" on a CD/Songbook HERE

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 07:33 AM

Dicho

I'm sure you're right - its just one of those cases where, as I read a set of words, I find a tune naturally springing to mind.

Whatever about the specifics, I would be pretty confident the song has Irish roots. Like you, I'd be very interested to see the source.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 09:23 PM

Martin, there were a hell of a lot of Irishmen in California during the gold rush days and on into the railroading and entrepreneural days. I have no evidence against your use of "until" in the song. I would like to see a source for the song and wondered if it could be found in one of the song books that came out in California in the 1850s-1870s. The word could be checked to see if its use in Joe's unattributed version is in another version, or if it could be an error.

"Mind," in the sense of to obey, to take care, to listen carefully, is widespread in the States. It is very common in the South and West. My grandmother and my wife's mother both used it frequently (both imperious souls). It could have come with Irish immigrants, but on the other hand, its usage in that sense in English goes back to the 14th century (OED) so it could have been brought over by the first English-speaking colonists.

I can't see any similarity with "The Peeler and His Goat" (in the DT) except meter, which may be said of a lot of other songs as well.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 08:15 PM

I wonder if it (John Chinaman's Appeal) derived from "The Peeler and the Goat"? The structure of verse 2, in particular, is very similar.

As with "until", the use of "mind" as in the first verse is quite common in Ireland.

In verse 4, I presume it's "queue race" rather than "cue"? Wonder what the last line was? I refuse to speculate!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 06:10 PM

John Chinaman's Appeal- any source for this? Doesn't seem to be given on the site linked by Joe, but it could be from one of the songsters published in San Francisco by Appleton. The "until" does seem to be out of place.