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BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114
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Subject: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Warren Webber Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:10 AM Part 113 is up to 110 posts. Time for part 114. In part 113, 32/110 or more than 29%, are from one person: CarolC. Warren Webber in Milwaukee |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:33 AM Good morning Warren. How are you today? Are we going to have an attack campaign on CarolC now? I don't think you're doing Israel any favors with this sort of thing. Kind of makes them look bad by association, if you know what I mean. At least if you were speaking for me, I think I would probably ask you to stop. But it's up to you. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:35 AM Why don't you both stop! Go do something musical! |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:37 AM katlaughing, you're not helping. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:39 AM And I'll make a deal with you, kat. I won't tell you what to do, and you don't tell me what to do. Deal? |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Warren Webber Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:49 AM In Part 112, CarolC was responsible for 26/68 posts or almost 37%. So far in Part 114, CarolC has made 50% of the posts. BTW CarolC, I don't know why you think my statistical observations have anything to do with "doing any favors for Israel." I have not made any personal attacks on you. I have merely pointed out easily verifiable Mudcat statistics. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:53 AM Ok, Warren. If you say so. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Barbara Date: 23 Jun 02 - 01:21 PM The often used "fact", that the Jews simply came and took the land away from the poor Palestinians is a red herring. It is simply not true. There has always been a significant presence of Jews in the Middle East. Including, and especially around Jerusalem. And until the Jews decided to formally re-settle Israel, there were very few Arabs in that part of the Middle East, other than in Jerusalem. But; as Jews developed the land, Arabs immigrated to this area in large numbers. Finally there was work. Another facetious "fact", is one of borders. Until the Europeans and Americans "imposed" borders in the Middle East, just after the Second World War; there were none. Present-day Middle Eastern countries with definable borders such as: Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and others, were created. And before the Europeans and Americans decided to carve up the Middle East, these were regions mostly ruled by Sheiks, war lords and the such. As a matter of "fact", the original King of Jordan, King Abdullah, was an Arabian who was handed Trans Jordan by the British for his past service to the Crown. In "fact", the vast majority of the people living within Jordan (70%) are Palestinian, while the ruling minority are Hashemite. So why don't we hear the Palestinians demanding Jordan as their state? Another "fact": they did. In September of 1970, Yasser Arafat and his PLO attempted to overthrow the Jordanian government. And for his troubles, Arafat was exiled from Jordan along with tens of thousands of other Palestinians. At least the ones which were not massacred by the Jordanians. As a result of the attempted coup by Arafat, Syria became involved as an opportunist. The final body count after all the fighting was done, included: 5,000 Jordanians, 2,000 PLO and 3,000 Syrians. In all, more than 10,000 people lost their lives due to Yasser Arafat. And from Jordan, Arafat and his Syrian buddies did the same thing to the Lebanese. But this time, with far more dire consequences. It took Israeli troops to get them out, finally driving Arafat into exile away from the Middle East. The Israelis would have done him in at that point. But like always, the world community saved his sorry ass. This is a "fact" Arafat and the rest of the world seem to prefer to forget. This failed coup led to the formation of one of the most vicious terrorist groups ever. Black September; responsible for multiple airplane highjackings, assassinations, and the 1972 Munich Olympic slaughter of Israeli athletes. The "Balfour Declaration" also guaranteed Jews, through the British Parliament in 1917, a State with recognizable borders. Here is the letter sent to Lord Rothschild from Lord Balfour confirming this: Foreign Office November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour It must be noted as a matter of history, that not only did the British not fulfill their promise, they in fact did whatever they could to renege. And more than that, they put in place all form of roadblocks to the realization of the Zionist dream. From 1901, more than a century past, the JNF (Jewish National Fund) purchased virtually all the land that is currently pre 1967 Israel. At that time, the land was useless rock, dust and weeds. Once developed however, the land became quite valuable. With this new reality, some of the Arabs who sold, were infuriated and felt cheated. But not all Arabs sold. And as a result, there are more than 1 million Israeli Arabs who prosper with the same rights enjoyed by Israeli Jews. For those who chose to sell. Tough luck. For those who deserted their land at the behest of the Arab League in 1948, to languish in Arab refugee camps of their own making. Tough luck. Imagine selling a dilapidated home to your neighbor, believing that its only value is in firewood; when all of a sudden, your neighbor transforms it into a magnificent property by investing an enormous amount of time, effort and money. How would you feel? Well that's how the Arabs feel. But unlike you, they want it back. For those who suggest that the Jews do not belong in Israel, specifically in Jerusalem and the West Bank, try this on for size as a Christian. If that argument is right, then Christ was a fraud, the bible is a fantasy and Christianity is a hoax. Christ lived in and around the city of Jerusalem, some 600 years before the advent of Islam. However; Christ was NOT a Christian, since Christianity followed in his footsteps. Christ was a Jew, and not just any Jew. He was a practicing Rabbi. As a matter of "fact", Leonardo Da Vinci's painting of the Last Supper, was a depiction of Christ and his Apostles at a Passover Seder, just before Judas' treachery did him in. This was about 2,000 years ago. Prior to Christ; King Herod constructed the Second Temple upon which the Islamic Dome Of The Rock, and the Al Aqsa Mosque were built more than 600 and 700 years later; respectfully. This is at least 600 years AFTER the Romans destroyed the Second Temple in 70 AD. Prior to King Herod's Second Temple; the First Temple was built by King Solomon, son of King David in 1000 BC. That is 3,000 years ago. And prior to that, King David, the Jews' first King, made his capital in Hebron, which is part of the West Bank, and will be part of the "eventual" Palestinian State. Therefore; the argument that Jews have no historical right to the "Holy Land" is both false and specious. Jews have been in the Middle East, specifically in and around Jerusalem far longer than the Christians and the Moslems combined. Three times longer. As another matter of fact, in keeping with the concept that the group who has the longest continuos history in the land is the legitimate occupant, at least according to the UN when this comparison is convenient, the Moslems come in third after the Christians, and well after the Jews. But that is not what this argument is all about. As an Atheist, albeit a Jewish Atheist, I find the significance of this history fascinating, not on a religious basis, but more-so on a basis which reflects the movement of world history. What happened in Israel (Middle East) during and before this period, has had an enormous impact on how we live our lives today, thousands of miles away in the 21st century. Back to reality, and away from religious significance. The Jews were there for almost 6,000 years. They have a right to be there now. The Palestinians have been there for about 50 years; solely as a result of European and American tampering. I kid you not. The Palestinians, are more or less a creation of the politically correct. In essence, Palestinians are Arabs, the same as the Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. But these Arabs want to convince the world that their national credibility exists in history. But in reality, this "history" is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. There never was a country of Palestine, nor a Palestinian people. At least not before Europe and the USA created one. After Roman Emperor Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus destroyed the Second Temple in 70 AD, and had his Roman Legion crush the Jewish Zealots at Masada, he named the REGION Philistine, in honor of the Jew's most hated enemy, the Philistines. Remember little David and the giant Goliath? This is the REGION which the world has condensed into the territory we presently refer to as Palestine. Ask yourself this question. Who was the last king, emperor, president, prime minister, governor; or any leader of PALESTINE before Yasser Arafat? Biblical or current? And if you can not answer; then how can there be Palestinians, and how can Palestine claim to have been stolen by the Jews? Israel is an unbelievably successful Western Style Democracy that pisses off all the failed tyrannies in the Middle East. The success of the Israelis also seems to bother anti-Semitic Europe as well. It's not as if European anti-Semitism started with Adolf Hitler and died in his bunker. The fact that so many European countries, including the USA, are so dependent for their energy and enormous wealth earned from the vast amounts of oil in the Middle East, is by and large the reason the world shows so much sympathy to an entire people they would otherwise never care less about. After-all, the Middle East is the antithesis to everything the West has strived to become, in terms of multi-culturalism, modernity and democracy; where the rights of the individual are considered to be sacrosanct; especially in the USA. Ehud Barak, Israel's Prime Minister prior to Ariel Sharon, offered Arafat the deal of a lifetime in terms of settling the debate over Palestine, and not only did Arafat turn it down, he never even attempted to make a counter offer. Arafat and the Palestinians, including the rest of the Arab "street", do not want a deal with Israel. They just don't want Israel. As far as I am concerned, Israel should continue to build its massive security wall, keep the Palestinians out of Israel proper, and leave the Palestinian problem for the Arabs to work out. And if the Palestinians still want to continue murdering Jews, then let the Jews respond with all due prejudice. And if the Palestinian Arabs finally decide to join the civilized and democratized 21st century, they will find no better friend and ally than Israel. The choice is; and has always been theirs. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,kiki Date: 23 Jun 02 - 01:39 PM Alone Among My Peers at My Yeshiva University High School Reunion by Ronald Bleier
The following article, my political autobiography, explaining how I changed from a Zionist to an anti-Zionist, was printed (with minor changes) in the Nov. '92 edition of The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs under their "Seeing the Light" column. In the spring of 1990 I was one of some forty men and a handful of spouses who attended the 30th reunion of the 75-man graduation class of Yeshiva University High School of Brooklyn.
Lengthy copy-paste article deleted. Click to find this article. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Phoebe Date: 23 Jun 02 - 02:19 PM Uri Avnery
15.9.01
THE DAY BARAK'S BUBBLE BURST
Lengthy copy-paste article deleted. Click to find this article -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jun 02 - 03:15 PM Neither one of you are helping the Mudcat, either, Carol. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 03:51 PM katlaughing, I don't know if you've been paying attention or not, but I'm not the one who is instigating this stuff. What I am doing is trying to get clear of it.
And I find this coming from you to be rather ironic to say the least... Go do something musical! |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 02 - 04:20 PM Carol, I'll gladly pay your air fare to Gaza or the West Bank, if it gets you the hell off of this forum. I'll even provide the final videographer for your taped deposition, and provide coordinates to a nice crowded area of civilians where you can detonate yourself and take a few Israelis with you. (Sounds like the type of contribution you'd like to make if only you could. Let me help you.) You are a disgrace as an American and a human being. You naivete is laughable if only it weren't so pathetic. You disgust me and many other members of this forum. |
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Subject: RE: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 04:33 PM I'm sorry you feel that way GUEST. I don't know why you and so many other people want to make this about me though. Are you so afraid of dialogue and of having your position challenged that you need to silence and/or demonize everyone who disagrees with you?
That kind of thing suggests to me a profound fear of the truth. People who aren't trying to hide from something can handle disagreement.
You would probably say that dissent costs the lives of Israelis. And I would answer that it is a lack of dissent that is costing Israeli lives, and Palestinians lives as well. But ultimately, we all will have to take responsibility for the decisions we make. I'm prepared to take responsibility for mine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 02 - 04:56 PM No it is people like you and your revisionist theories of lies masquerading as truth, that are in denial. I guess 6 million wasn't enough for you and that defending ones sovereign territory consititutes terrorism. You've got it all so ass backwards it boggles the mind. You'd make an excellent recruite for Al Quada. You obviously have a very bendable, impressionable and corruptable mind. I guess when the next attack happens on our soil, you'll consider the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, Police and Firefighters' collective responses - terrorists as well - by your definitions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 05:18 PM Why so much hate, GUEST? What do you hope to accomplish with that? Who and what do you think you are serving with that? Clearly you don't know or understand anything about me if you would project those kinds of motives onto me. I think you are just using me as a mirror of yourself. You are projecting your own hate onto me and seeing it reflected back to you. But it's not my hate you're seeing. It is your own.
You won't be able to move forward as long as you are projecting your stuff onto other people. You can't fight your demons by trying to make me into one of them. These are not my demons. They are yours. And chasing me off of an internet forum, or inciting hatred against me, or even making me feel bad, will not free you of your demons. Because they live within you. You can't run away from them, and you can't assign them to someone else. They are yours. You have to do the work of letting them go yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 02 - 05:38 PM Here Carol. Your friends are calling you. Run along now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 05:44 PM I don't know what would make you think I support al Qaeda. I thought we were discussing Israelis and Palestinians. You don't hurt me with your hate, GUEST. You only hurt yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:27 PM No point in arguing with a shadow. No point in even reading what a shadow writes on a wall. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:35 PM I don't know McGrath. I still hold to the idea that we are all human beings. Even the GUESTS. That's how I choose to treat them, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: robomatic Date: 23 Jun 02 - 09:49 PM Of the three long posts, the one by Barbara is the only one that I think asserts real facts. In fact, she is taking three times as much space to make pretty much the same assertions I made in part 113 (of blessed memory) The piece by Bleier, if it is legitimate, is firstly a long polemic introduced by someone else, so it is kind of unfair. I think if guest kiki has a point to make he/she should use their own words and provide a link. Of the piece itself it sounds like Bleier (again, assuming this is a real zionist who 'saw the light') is a person incapable of accepting the broad spectrum of human behavior. His apprach seems to be that the zionist cause is inscribed in holiness or it is nothing but lies. I think the article says more about the author's character than the actual events, which are misrepresented and taken out of context. As for the third long post, a rendition of how reasonable Arafat has been over the years, it is also an imported polemic, basically an unfavorable review of someone else's work. It's a book review of a book I haven't read. I'd rather the guest had made his or her own points. In general, people, speak for yourselves, treat the rest of the list with respect, make a link to your references, then stand clear! I love you all, just not equally Robo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Bobert Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:06 PM Hang in there, CarolC. I'd join in the fray but you're doing just fine. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 23 Jun 02 - 11:12 PM You think, Bobert? I'm getting kind of frazzled. I think maybe I'll take a vote. All in favor of me posting links that show the other side of robomatic's arguments, indicate your preference. If enough of the right people want me to, I will. But I reserve the right to say no if I think it will make me the target of more hate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Barbara Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:35 AM All in favor of me posting links that show the other side of robomatic's arguments, indicate your preference. If enough of the right people want me to, I will. Calling for a vote and then basing your response on the votes of only the undefined right people sure sounds like the very model of Arafatian democracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:54 AM I get the impression that the people who are the most traumatized by the information I've been posting are Jewish. I would prefer not to post my rebuttal to robomatic's arguments unless I get a strong response from Jewish people saying that they want me to. Just what, exactly, are you insinuating, anyway, Barbara? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 02 - 12:15 PM So now it's the Jews who are the "right people." It's not bad enough that they control the big media, now the Jews will control what CarolC posts. How PC of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 24 Jun 02 - 12:20 PM Well, GUEST, I dont' enjoy being the target of so many people's hate. However. Try as you might, you can't make me into something I'm not. Whatever demonic idea you have in your twisted mind about who I am will never bear any resemblance to who I actually am. And there's not a thing you can do to change that. So get over it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:56 PM Sorry, CarolC, but it sounds like you might have a couple of mean spirited attorney-like thinkers messin' with ya'. They're not interested in the truth but picking apart your words in an attempt to tarnish you. Normal defense mechanisim for folks on the opposite side. Rather than deal in ideas painted a wide brush, they only think in tiny brush details. Don't let them get to you. It's obvious that some have allready created their Hell right here in their tiny little lives. Sad? Sure. But not your problem. Theirs. But I will say that until we get a lot more folks seeing a vision painted with a larger brush, then yet-but detailers will keep man blowing up each other until one day someone messes up and blows up this little experiement that God has going here on earth. Yeah, they'll pull out that6 dreamer thing. "Ol' Bobert's just a dreamer". Haha. Or, "Ol' hillbilly don't know nuttin about the real world." Haha. Well, that may be true and it may not be. Afterall, most every comfort they enjoy today started off as a dream or vision. So hang in there and don't let the little thinker's bother you. Hey, they think they are big thinker's, even if we know differently. Some folks are just plain mean-spirited. Right? Peace Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 24 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM Thanks Bobert. But as long as people try to make the issue be about me instead of about information, I don't think much will be served by posting information that I figure will be very difficult for some people to absorb. This is how I figure it. The information is there. Eventually it will become common knowlege. It's only a matter of time. The only question I see is how many Jews, Arabs, and Palestinians will have to get killed before people get real about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: robomatic Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:24 PM Carol C: You will either post your links and let people comment on them or not post your links and continue the existing shall I or shall I not post the links. This issue seems to be defining the 'debate' and eating up a lot of your posts. I don't particularly want you to be the topic, I'd rather wish to know what information you regard as your fountain of opinion. robo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:42 PM Personal attacks on people holding positions which we do not agree with are a drag, but there's no way of stopping them; some people seem to enjoy doing that, normally anonymously. Presumably that's part of the fun.
Does anybody think they are doing anything at all to encourage people to come down on their side in an argument? My feeling is that it's entirelyt the other way - if you are unsure about some issue, anonymous flames tend to make you sway towards the side of the person under attack.
But I imagine the idea is actually to try to bully people into shutting up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: CarolC Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:05 PM Well, since I'm the one who is being targeted for personal attacks by not only anonymous guests, but named members as well, I think I get to say under what conditions I'm going to post stuff that I know will make me the target of even worse attacks than before. I'm not enjoying it very much, especially when members like katlaughing suggest I'm hurting the Mudcat by posting. So unless I get enough people requesting the information to make me feel less exposed, I'm not posting it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Warren Webber Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:53 PM President Bush has now made it clear that the Palestinian terrorists, and Arafat himself, are the enemies of a peaceful solution and the obstacles to the establishment of a Palestinian state. The president made it clear that it is up to the Palestinians to stop the terrorism and to democratically elect a non-terrorist government. Of course, the goal of terrorist organizations like Hamas is to actually prolong the occupation for as many decades as it takes to establish a fundamentalist Muslim state. They send their suicide bombers in with the intent of drawing in the Israelis.
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:02 PM Well, if Bush says so... I guess it must have been wrong of me to blame the racist/zionist/genocidal policies of the Israeli govt. for the violence in Palestine today! Dang, thanks, Bush, for making it all so clear! And thank you, Warren, just for being you! :D ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:07 PM Ain't about sides. Ain't about yeah... buts. Ain't about what the world is being fed by the information managers. It's about reality. It's about failed policies that keep folks ay each other's throats. Those who are in power are failing mankind miserably. And for what? Profits and kickbacks at the expense of humanity!!! That's what. If this is all they have to offer, then it's time for a new world order.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Warren Webber Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:11 PM "I couldn't hate America any more." -Lepus Rex, January 29, 2002 You must be a great comfort to the Osama Bin Ladens of this world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:15 PM I...I don't know what to say, Warreen. I'm speechless. No one has EVER attacked me with that before. I...I...give up. Seriously. You've beaten me into submission, you cruel, cruel man! Please, no more! Mercy! Oh, and drink me. ;) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:29 PM If you were as ugly as Lepus Rex, you'd hate America too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Lepus Rex Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:31 PM Fool. That link doesn't even work. Try clicking here, and STOP making me cry, dammit! ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 02 - 01:42 AM Ahad Ha'Am |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,GWB Date: 25 Jun 02 - 09:43 AM For too long, the citizens of the Middle East have lived in the midst of death and fear. The hatred of a few holds the hopes of many hostage. The forces of extremism and terror are attempting to kill progress and peace by killing the innocent. And this casts a dark shadow over an entire region. Lengthy copy-paste article deleted. Click here to find it. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST,Barbara Date: 25 Jun 02 - 09:48 AM At a recent seminar on Islam at the University of Toronto, a woman shrouded in black spoke with a Canadian accent through the most all-encompassing yashmak I have ever seen, the opening for her eyes as narrow as a mail slot. The fact that she looked like a visitor from an ancient desert kingdom gave extra emphasis to her cool acceptance of random Palestinian killing. She introduced her views with the correct academic reference. "I'm coming from a Chomskyan perspective here," she announced, peeking out. She meant Noam Chomsky, the professor who finds an excuse for any atrocity against Israel. Lengthy copy-paste article deleted. Click here to find it. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Jack the Sailor Date: 25 Jun 02 - 01:01 PM I read on the CBC website today that G8 Leaders want Bush to put pressure on both sides in this conflict. But I'm sure that Bush is right, in championing democracy while telling an elected leader to step down. He is also right in choosing sides, for that is certianly the way to mediate a compromise. While we're at it, we should also rewrite the dictionary so that we all pronounce nuclear like him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 02 - 02:11 PM hmmmm. Some of the champions of Israel on this thread sound like white supremacists and skinheads. Only in this case I guess they would be Jewish supremacists. Not really much difference, though, when you think about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 02 - 03:20 PM Sharon is the right man for the job Gilad Atzmon
-- Gilad Atzmon
Lengthy copy-paste article deleted. Click to see this article. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Mike Regenstreif Date: 25 Jun 02 - 03:46 PM They turned the Jenin camp into a 'Palestinian Ground Zero'. Occupied houses were destroyed over their habitants. Sharon had committed a crime comparable to the Quibya massacre of 50 years earlier. Although the similarities are very obvious, there are slight differences that should be identified. In Quibya Sharon was a platoon commander, in Jenin he had become an elected prime minister and had committed his crime in the name of all Israeli people. As expected, as soon as international criticism was heard, Sharon defined the current battle as the 'existential war of the all Jewish nation'. According to Sharon, then, the massacre in Jenin was done not only in the name of the Israelis but in the name of all Jewish people. Not a particularly good work of fiction. Jenin? The massacre that even the Palestinian Authority now admits never took place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 02 - 04:11 PM Interesting point, Mike. I wonder what kinds of threats the governments of Israel and the US had to use on the Palestinian Authority to get them to agree to that one, considering how many eye witnesses there were from the international community who say otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: DougR Date: 25 Jun 02 - 06:24 PM I don't address replies to unidentified GUESTS, Mike, but were I to, I would ask Guest to inform us exactly how many Palenstinian lives were killed by the Israelis at Jenin, and while he/she was about it, provide proof to back up the figures. Jack the Sailor, I'm sure you have a much better idea for settling the Israeli Palestinian problem than the one proposed by President Bush. Share your proposed solution with us, please. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: Donuel Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:11 PM Thank you Barbara for your extensive posts. Last time I checked in here CarolC was everyones darling and tongue in cheek nominee for President. The current detractors have little to say except a dose of hatred and a desire to silence others. That these control freaks come out of the woodwork now is indicative of a fascist stench upon our homeland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Terrorists? Part 114 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:28 PM The Qibya massacre carried out by Sharon did take place. It was an appalling terrorist act against civilians of all ages. Unlike the Sabra and Shatilla massacres even, where the killings were done by third parties, Sharon was in direct command of the killers at Qibya. He claimed that when he killed 70 civilians hiding from his troops in the buildings he blew up, he didn't know they were there.
I think that prospects for peace would be far better if people on both sides refused to vote for people who have been involved in terrorism. But people have a nasty way of voting for the people they choose, and sometimes their choice isn't very pleasant, and you have to deal with them. Even Sharon, even Arafat.
I understand why people think that long articles and speeches are sometimes relevant. But if you put a short extract or summary with a link to a place where the whole thing can be read far more easily than on a Mudcat thread, it is probably a far better way of encouraging people to read the material, and it is what we have been repeatedly asked to do by the people who maintain the Mudcat. The best way to ensure that a politician gets re-elected is for an outside government to demand that they are thrown out. Maybe that's the idea. |
