Bannockburn

Subject: Bannockburn
From: Fiolar
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:28 AM

Today June 24 is the anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn, so ably commemorated in that marvellous song "Flower of Scotland" composed by the late Roy Williamson.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:33 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:37 AM

oops pressed the wrong button. Let us commemorate the unfortunate Sir Henry de Boon. Perhaps this should be designated International Headache Day?

Subject: Lyr Add: THE FIELDS OF BANNOCKBURN
From: Fiolar
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:56 AM

I came across the following while trawling the net:

FIELDS OF BANNOCKBURN
By
MACGREGOR SIMPSON
1.
Twas on a bonnie simmer's day,
me English came in grand array
King Edward's orders to obey,
Upon the Field of Bannockburn.

2.
Sae loudly let the Pibroch wake
Each loyal Clan frae hill and lake,
And boldly fight for Scotia's sake
Upon the Field of Bannockburn.

3.
King Edward raised his standard high,
Bruce shook his banners in reply -
Each army shouts for victory
Upon the Field of Bannockburn.

4.
The English horse wi' deadly aim
Upon the Scottish army came;
But hundreds in our pits were slain
Upon the Field of Bannockburn.

5.
Loud rose the war cry of M'Neil,
Who flew like tigers to the field
And made the Sass'nach army feel
There were dauntless hearts at Bannockburn.

6.
M'Donald's clan, how firm their pace -
Dark vengeance gleams in ev'ry face,
Lang had they thirsted to embrace
Their Sass'nach friends at Bannockburn.

7.
The Fraser bold his brave clan led,
While wide their thistle banners spread -
They boldly fell and boldly bled
Upon the Field of Bannockburn.

8.
The ne'er behind brave Douglas came,
And also with him Donald Graham,
Their blood-red painted swords did stain
The glorious Field of Bannockburn.

9.
That day King Edward's heart did mourn,
With joy each Scottish heart did burn,
In mem'ry now let us return
Our thanks to Bruce at Bannockburn.

It seems to have the same lilt as "The Haughs of Cromdale" but that's just a guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:23 AM

From The Douglas Library, though I see that some "Celtic Lyrics" site also has it, perhaps copied from there. Does anybody know anything about MacGregor Simpson? Neither site gives any details, and I haven't found references anywhere else so far. It would be interesting to know if this is a modern pastiche or of some genuine age.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: PeteBoom
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:30 AM

Malcolm - I've no idea, but it smacks HEAVILY of "modern pastiche". I've no problem with the modern "Flower of Scotland" - unless it is done poorly. Unfortunately, it is usually done poorly in the States (and at Canadian games I've been to).

Ah well -

Pete

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:59 PM

Flower Of Scotland, to me sounds best when sung in a minor key...

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 07:30 PM

I rather like the Bannockburn lyrics posted above, and even though they do seem to be modern, they'll do a treat to help overcome the natural self-effacement and shy reluctance of the english tourists who drop in on us from time to time.... It'll make a change from "Blue Bonnets" and "Wha Wadnae Fecht For Charlie"... heh, heh, heh. Ahemm... Not at Bannockburn, but near the same place a few years earlier, a rag-tag army under Wallace and Moray defeated a greatly superior force. The Corries did a great song, called, if I remember right, "Stirling Bridge" to the tune of Cam Ye Ower Frae France". I always wondered if that was also modern or based on an authentic piece. Anybody?

And how dare anybody say I'm anti-sassenach! I appreciate our english cousins greatly. Well, just think, if it wasn't for those great people and loving neighbours to the south, we'd have had no real history to speak of! Us and the welsh and the irish..... and the americans... and autralians.... kiwis....indians.... french.... spanish..... anybody else? I'll run away now......

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BATTLE OF BANNOCKBURN
From: little john cameron
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 08:06 PM

Talkin aboot Bannockburn. That great master o' the Scottish verse Sir William Topaz McGonagall wrote the poem "The Battle of Bannockburn" to commemorate that great victory. I include it here for your appreciation. The City of Dundee are inscribing another of his marvellous poems "The Tay Bridge Disaster" into the sidewalk to commemorate the 100th anniversary of his death.


THE BATTLE OF BANNOCKBURN

Sir Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn
Beat the English in every wheel and turn,
And made them fly in great dismay
From off the field without delay.

The English were a hundred thousand strong,
And king Edward passed through the Lowlands all along,
Determined to conquer Scotland, it was his desire,
And then to restore it to his own empire.

King Edward brought numerous wagons in his train,
Expecting that most of the Scottish army would be slain,
Hoping to make the rest prisoners, and carry them away
In wagon-loads to London without delay.

The Scottish army did not amount to more than thirty thousand strong;
But Bruce had confidence he'd conquer his foes ere long;
So, to protect his little army, he thought it was right
To have ddep-dug pits made in the night;

And caused them to be overlaid with turf and brushwood
Expecting the plan would prove effectual where his little army stood,
Waiting patiently for the break of day,
All willing to join in the deadly fray.

Bruce stationed himself at the head of the reserve,
Determined to conquer, but never to swerve
And by his side were brave Kirkpatrick and true De Longueville,
Both trusty warriors, firm and bold, who would never beguile.

By daybreak the whole of the English army came in view,
Consisting of archers and horsemen, bold and true;
The main body was led on by King Edward himself,
An avaricious man, and fond of pelf.

The Abbot of Inchaffray celebrated mass,
And all along the Scottish lines barefoot he did pass,
With the crucifix in his hand, a most beautiful sight to see,
Exhorting them to trust in god, and He would set them free.

Then the Scottish army knelt down on the field,
And King Edward he thought they were going to yield,
And he felt o'erjoyed, and cried to Earl Percy,
"See! See! the Scots are crying for mercy."

But Percy said, "Your Majesty need not make such a fuss,
They are crying for mercy from God, not from us;
For, depend upon it, they will fight to a man, and find their graves
Rather than yield to become your slaves."

Then King Edward ordered his horsemen to charge,
Thirty thousand in number, it was very large;
They sought to o'erwhelm them ere they could rise from their knees,
But they met a different destiny, which did them displease;
For the horsemen fell into the spiked pits in the way,
And, with broken ranks and confusion, they all fled away.

But few of them escap'd death from the spiked pits,
For the Scots with their swords hack'd them to bits;
De Valence was overthrown and carried off the field,
Then King Edward he thought it was time to yield.

And he uttered a fearful cry
To his gay archers near by,
Ho! archers! draw your arrows to the head,
And make sure you kill them dead;
Forward, without dread, and make them fly,
Saint George for England, be our cry!

Then the arrows from their bows swiftly did go,
And fell amongst them as thick as the flakes of snow;
Then Bruce he drew his trusty blade,
And in heroic language said,
Forward, my heroes, bold and true!
And break the archers' ranks through and through!
And charge them boldly with your swords in hand,
And chase these vultures from off our land,
And make King Edward mourn
The day he came to Bannockburn.

So proud Edward on his milk-white steed,
One of England's finest breed,
Coming here in grand array,
With horsemen bold and archers gay,
Thinking he will us dismay,
And sweep everything before him in his way;
But I swear by yon blessed sun
I'll make him and his army run
From off the field of Bannockburn.

By St. Andrew and our God most high,
We'll conquer these epicures or die!
And make them fly like chaff before the wind
Until they can no refuge find;
And beat them off the field without delay,
Like lions bold and heroes gay.
Upon them!-charge!-follow me,
For Scotland's rights and liberty!

Then the Scots charged them with sword in hand,
And made them fly from off their land;
And King Edward was amazed at the sight,
And he got wounded in the fight;
And he cried, Oh heaven! England's lost, and I'm undone,
Alas! alas! where shall I run?
Then he turned his horse, and rode on afar,
And never halted till he reached Dunbar.

Then Bruce he shouted, Victory!
We have gained our rights and liberty;
And thanks be to God above
That we have conquered King Edward this day,
A usurper that does not us love.

Then the Scots did shout and sing,
Long live Sir Robert Bruce our King!
That made King Edward mourn
The day he came to Bannockburn!


BTW,aH HAE THIS OAN MP3 IF ONYBODY IS INTERESTIT.LJC

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:06 PM

And upon hearing this example of the literary work of William Topaz McGonagall, the townspeople erected a monument... and placed him under it!

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: little john cameron
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:42 PM

Awa wi' ye ozzie.The man was a genius.His use of rhyme and meter is unique.Nae simple iambic pentameter for him.Ye can feel yer Scottish blood risin as the story unfolds.A masterpiece o' Scottish literature.ljc

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:05 PM

True, true... untramelled by the bounds imposed upon his unparalleled genius by the artificial restraints of mediocrity, such as rhyme, meter, scansion, common-sense and taste, this man... nay, this marvel, this gem of the written word, rose up from the obscurity of the gutter and left his unique mark upon the literature of Scotland, and the world, for all eternity. Never shall we see his like again.

Makes you proud to be a scot. Bannockburn AND McGonagall in the same thread.... and in case the english haven't suffered enough, let's also mention haggis.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: little john cameron
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:27 PM

Ye can join the "William McGonagall Appreciation Society" FOR THE PALTRY SUM OF ONE POUND.ljc

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:00 PM

Didn't you just know somebody would bring money into it, demeaning other people's perceptions about the scots... As if it wasn't shame enough being the birthplace of McGonagall, ljc, you want folk to pay for it as well.

On the subject of Bannockburn itself, I remember visiting the display centre there years ago and marvelling at the panoramic painting of the battle, and at the sheer impact of the statue of Bruce on his palfrey. Stirring stuff. But apart from the lyrics posted above, are there many songs about the battle other than just a passing mention such as in "Roses of Price Charlie"... at Bannockburn / Your battle-axe to wield/....? "Flower of Scotland" certainly refers to the Wars of Independence and Bannockburn, but it isn't actually about the battle, being a call to modern scots to have pride in their heritage.

How many songs about the battle are there?

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:42 PM

Probably only recent ones. Well, we had to win a battle once in a while; law of averages. Bruce (de Brus), the Norman-French blow-in, had only just decided that his own personal best interests lay with Scotland rather than England. He was right, of course (always had an eye to the main chance), and got -briefly- the Scottish throne; though he certainly wouldn't have managed it without the backing of the Douglases. Naturally, he screwed it up, and one of my lot had to take bits of him to the "Holy Land",  post-mortem.

Now, if we'd succeeded in our bid for the Scottish throne (which we made the mistake of trying to arrange dynastically, rather than just killing everybody else who had some sort of claim to it) all that nonsense with the incompetent Stewarts might have been avoided.

Oh, well. At least we still have the Haggis, though I should warn you that it is only nowadays intimidating to English people (half my family, after all) when deep-fried.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:57 PM

Aye, weel. should have kent there wid be a red or black-hearted Douglas oot there claiming precendence (or presidency ?)just because one of them had the good sense to get on the winning side back about 1300. Did you a lot of good in the end, though - how do you like your bull's head, eh? Next thing there'll be a Cunningham or maybe even a Livingstone having another try.

Now, being descended from Kenneth MacAlpin (or something like that) myself, my lot of course stand aside from all the squabbling Norman-French immigrants to represent the REAL scots monarchy and have a prior claim to the crown before even the Bruce, or any of that Stuart crowd. S'roighal mo dhrem" and all that........

Now we have displyed that well-known characteristic of the scot, where we stand shoulder to shoulder united against our age-old enemy and traditional foe, the bloke in the next glen, is there any more songs about Bannockburn....................

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 01:38 AM

Made by the Scots in derision of the English after the battle, 1314.

Maydins of England, sore may ye morne
For your lemmans ye haue loste at Bannockborne,
Wyth a heue a lowe.
What wenyt the kynge of England
So soone to have wonne Scotlande
With rumbylow

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:59 AM

Malcolm, does catching leprosy count as "screwing it up?"

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 08:16 AM

Ozmacca if youre descended from Macalpin then get yourself off back to Ireland and leave the place clear for us Picts and Brits who rightfully own it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 08:17 AM

PS And dont forget to take your Gaelic with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: Fiolar
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 08:42 AM

How many 'catters remember that the late great Spike played William McGonagall in "The Great McGonagall" in the 1974 film with Peter Sellers as Queen Victoria?

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: little john cameron
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:05 AM

Translation at the end.ljc

This is part of John Barbours epic poem"The Bruce"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce's address to his captains before Bannockburn

And certis me think well that ye
Forout abasing aucht to be
Worthy and of gret vasselagis
For we haff thre gret avantagis
The fyrst is that we haf the rycht
And for the rycht ay God will fycht.
The tother is that thai cummyn ar
For lyppynyng off thar gret powar To sek us in our awne land,
And has brocht her rycht till our hand
Ryches into sa gret quantit´e
That the pourest of you sall be
Bath rych and mychty tharwithall
Giff that we wyne, as weill may fall.
The thrid is that we for our lyvis
And for our childer and for our wyyis
And for our fredome and for our land
Ar strenyeit in bataill for to stand,
And thai for thar mycht anerly
And for thai let of us heychtly
And for thai wad distroy us all
Mais thaim to fycht, bot yeit may fall
That thai sall rew thar barganyng.
And certis I warne you off a thing
That happyn thaim, as God forbed,
Till fynd fantis intill our deid
That thai wyn us opynly
Thai sall off us haf na mercy,
And sen we knaw thar felone will
Me think it suld accord to skill To set stoutnes agayne felony
And mak sa-gat a juperty.
Quharfor I you requer and pray
That with all your mycht that ye may
That ye pres you at the begynnyng
But cowardys or abaysing
To mete thaim at sall fyrst assemble
Sa stoutly that the henmaist trymble
And menys of your gret manheid
Your worschip and your douchti deid
And off the joy that we abid
Giff that us fall, as well may tid,
Hap to vencus this gret bataill.
In your handys without faile
Ye ber honour price and riches
Fredome welsh and blythnes
Giff you contene you manlely,
And the contrar all halily
Sall fall giff ye lat cowardys
And wykytnes your hertis suppris.
Ye mycht have lyvyt into threldome,
Bot for ye yarnyt till have fredome
Ye ar assemblyt her with me,
Tharfor is nedfull that ye be
Worthy and wycht but abaysing ...
... Giff ye will wyrk apon this wis
Ye sall haff victour sekyrly.

Translation

I think indeed that you
Ought to be without timidity,
Worthy, and of great prowess;
For in three ways we have the edge:
The first is, that right is on our side
And God will always fight for the right.
The second is, they have come here
Trusting in their great power
To seek us in our own land;
And have brought here, right to our hands
Riches in such great plenty
That the poorest of you shall be
Both rich and powertul as well,
If we win, as well may happen.
The third is that for our lives
And for our children and our wives
And for our freedom and for our land
We are bound to stand in battle.
And they for their power only,
And because they think scornfully of us
And because they would destroy us all,
Makes them fight; but it may yet happen
That they will rue confronting us.
And indeed, I warn you of one thing
That if it happens that they (God forbid)
Find us fainthearted in our acts
So that they beat us openly
They will have no mercy on us.
And since we know their wicked will
I think it would suit our skill
To set bravery against cruelty
And make our fighting stand in that way.
Therefore I ask and beseech you
That with all the strength that you can muster
At the beginning you get ready
Without cowardice or holding back
To meet those that reach you first
So stoutly that the hindmost tremble.
And think of your great valour
Your courage, and your doughty deeds
And of the joy that waits for us
If it befalls, as well may be,
That we happen to defeat this great host.
In your hands, without fail,
You bear honour, reputation and riches
Freedom, wealth and happiness,
If you carry yourselves like men;
And exactly the opposite
Will befall if you let cowardice
And wickedness take over your hearts.
You could have lived in serfdom,
But, because you yearned to have freedom
You are gathered here with me;
So it is needful that you be
Strong and bold and without fear .
.. ... If you will behave in this way
You win surely have victory.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 06:37 PM

Thanks ljc, great stuff, and a marked improvement on McGonagall. Now, who's going to set THAT to music? Make a great presentation piece some time though.

Mr Stephens, it is with deep regret that I have to regretfully decline your kind invitation to return to Ireland... and take my gaelic (MY gaelic?) with me.... leaving Scotland to the racial purity of the Picts and Brits. This is on the grounds that there aren't all that many Picts left, and the Brits are just as much of a rag-bag of mongrels as the Norman French. At least oor kind were there afore they came looking to grab bits of it forbye. Aye, and we focht for it!..... Well, at any rate, for bits of it..... or at least for the cattle that were on it..... Oh, and if we're all going back where we belong, when are you going to Greece? Ain't none of us where we came from these days. If we all tried it, we'd all end up in central Africa or somewhere, and it'll be awful crowded. Think I'll stay where I am and just remember the fading glory of bygone days......

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,Guest Teribus
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:30 AM

Didn't Burns paraphrase Barbours epic (Thanks for posting it LJC - fantastic stuff) in the words to "Scots Wha Hae" ? He "wrote" the song to preserve a pipe tune and to protest at highly irregular legal procedings that were being levelled at a gentleman in Glasgow who was campaigning for electoral reform and human rights (dodgey thing to do during the 1790's). He wrote the song annonymously and it was banned as being inflamatory if not downright treasonable. Read about it in Tom Steele's book "Scotland's Story".

History is a funny thing - had Robert the Bruce had his way the battle would never have been fought. His little brother Edward got him into trouble and forced the confrontation.

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: GUEST,Davetnova
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 03:30 AM

The pipe tune was Hey Tutti Tutti and it was supposed to be used as the march on the advance to Bannockburn

Subject: RE: BS: Bannockburn
From: Jim McLean
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:45 AM

I noticed a guest asked about Stirling Brig which I wrote around 1966. Cheers, Jim McLean