BS: World Cup Final

Subject: World Cup Final
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:18 PM

At this time, I'm predicting that Germany will beat Brazil in overtime. Any takers?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Bluebeard
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:50 PM

Actually, I am hoping that Turkey beat the over-rated Brasilians. They have played some very entertaining football. Germany 2 Turkey 1 ? ( My wife is German !) Been a great experience, so much soccer to see. There are always a few questionable decisions. It's a pity that certain teams who lost did not have the grace to accept defeat. On with the music !

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 05:44 AM

"It's a pity that certain teams who lost did not have the grace to accept defeat."

When the defeat is the result of referees wrongly disallowing goals and so forth, and the evidence is there on film, it's expecting rather a lot for people no to register their disagreement and even suspicion of the officials, in some cases.

Of course, there was a time when it was considered unsportsmanlike even to attempt to save a penalty, when a referee awarded it. Maybe they should try to get back to that as well. But I can't see it happening myself.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 05:55 AM

Yea - but the same people who are complaining would keep very quiet if a dodgy decision went their way! One of the issues facing any sport that relies on a referees or umpires decision is that all parties are bound by the same rules. And by the referees decision. Until such a time as all parties agree to instant TV replays etc. there is no point in whinging about how or when you loose.

For what it is worth my prediction is that Germany will play Brazil but due to a previously unknown virus the referee, and both his assistants, will turn blue, stand on their heads singing 'I've got a luverly bunch of coconuts' and award the match, by a points decision, to Wales. The decision will stand because a replay showing that Wales were not in fact playing will be inadmissible...

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 06:05 AM

With the fans in the stadia seeing replays on huge screens whilst play is stopped, but the referee being unable to change his decision brings the game into disrepute. Either the big screens should show only the state of play (not the replays & different camera angles being broadcast), or the 4th official should have the discretion to use the replay facility to advise the 1st official (main ref.) to revise his decision.
This is now being used in international Rugby Union, and allows the ref. to review a seen where he was unsighted, or where his concentration was on another incident.
'Taking a dive' following a fair tackle would become much less prevalent if the offender knew that the ref. would stop play and review the incident before deciding where to award the free kick/ yellow card. IMHO

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 06:45 AM

Broadcasting of action replays to the crowd have certainly transformed the mood at cricket matches, where the umpiring (refereering) decisions can be much more difficult. Contrary to what I feared, this has not been for the worse, and the umpirese seem to have broad enough shoulders to live with their mistakes being publicly dissected.

I remember the England v South Africa test a couple of years ago when a replay showed Atherton had not only been fairly caught out of Donald's bowling but also must have known. He chose to stand his ground and go with the umpire's mistake, which is what sport is reduced to these days. Donald spent the next hour or so trying to kill Atherton with truly venomous bowling - a dual all the more appreciated because everyone knew what it was all about.

In my view Rivaldo should have been banned from the competition for deceitfully getting someone red-carded. The fine clearly didn't bother him, because he did the same thing again against England - clutching his face when his face hadn't been touched. I put this sort of stunt in a different league from Maradona's hand-of-God trick and football needs to crack down on it.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Mike Strobel
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 11:59 AM

Final : Brazil 2 Germany 1 Just a guess................................and I'm German

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:20 PM

I'm American and don't know jack and haven't had nearly as much experience watching world class soccer as the rest of you, but watching the semi-finals and several other matches from both teams before, my wild-ass guess is that it's going to be a bit uninspiring as both of these teams pretty much seem to play only up to the level of competition in that particular game. Maybe Brazil by one.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 01:02 PM

Astute observation there Spaw and as I see it one of two things will happen. Scenario one the players will let the occasion get to them and will be extremely cautious with their approach play. Resulting in a tedious game of keep ball at all costs. Noone will try to break the other down and will rely on their front players to chase on the end of long raking passes. Scenario two the players will let the occasion get to them and play open attack minded football. The Brazilians will sweep forward with that beautiful fluid passing movement and the Germans will counter using their flank men to get crosses into the Brazilian penalty area. However I have the sinking feeling that the first scenario will be closer to the mark. Still Brazil by three. Ever the opptimist Den.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:01 PM

Brazil ALWAYS wins, except that French fluke, so I'm torn - I'd normally root for the underdog but can't bring myself to root for the Germans! Yikes! (Where is Senegal when you need them?)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:10 PM

Let's not forget 1950 when there was a final round and Brazil, in the last game of the tournament, only needed a draw to be champion and lost at home against Uruguay.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: mooman
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:13 AM

My intelligence operatives have, with great difficulty, discovered Rui Voller's probable starting lineup for Sunday's big match.

With apologies in advance to Wolfgang!

Germany 's Starting Line for the World Cup Final

Best regards,

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:15 AM

It is so secret that your link is inaccessible for me.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: mooman
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:20 AM

Funny...it worked first time! Perhaps there is a German programmer at Yahoo!

Germany's secret starting lineup for the world cup final

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: mooman
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:25 AM

Both work now...little Yahoo problem!

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:51 AM

When IS the final?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:12 PM

Sunday at I think 8:00 pm local time.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:25 PM

Deutschland Über Alles!!!!!! Treten Sie das Arsch!

(okay, I am just learning German, apologies if I didn't say that right...)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Declan
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:36 PM

Would that be local time in Hull ?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:41 PM

No Declan, I'm sorry.....But when it is 8PM there, it will be 3:39PM, March 24, 1924, in Hull.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: DonD
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:44 PM

The inevitable 'local' time, a worthy companion to the unspecified 'here' in posts as if everybody knows where the poster is. Egocentric? Inconsiderate? Just thoughtless? Oh, well ...

There is only one constant time on Mudcat, and that's Mudcat Time, as shown at the top of each post, and I presume (danger, danger!) that that'sEastern Standard/Daylight Time as current in West Chester, PA.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 12:57 PM

The question asked was when would the final be played. Since the final will take place in Japan does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that the time I referred to was local as in Japan where the feckin' final is taking place. Egocentric, inconsiderate, just thoughtless, I don't think so I thought I was being helpful. I could have just said Sunday and left it at that or would your fuckin knickers be in a twist trying to figure out which Sunday or if indeed it would still be Sunday wherever the fuck you live.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Declan
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:02 PM

Relax folks.

I understood that it was local time in Japan. I was just carrying a joke through from another thread !

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:03 PM

I wasn't talking to you I was answering DonD's thoughtful post.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:08 PM

So as to be useful, if you go to the FIFA site Here! and scroll down to where it says Korea/Japan Time Converter, it will do the work for you. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:20 PM

As y'all seem to be having a problem in your time conversions, allow me to step in and give you an easy conversion method. Your first problem is that you are operating on the Grenwich MEAN Time standard which is often just as mean as it's name indicates. So let's swap to the more user friendly Icelandic Kinder Gentler Time standard to do our conversion tables. This also does away with the silly concept of the International Date Line (not the 900 one) which foists upon us the ludicrous idea that, though it is tomorrow there, it is yesterday here...which in point of all evidence is patently untrue, as it is today everywhere. Now we can move along to our formula at a more logical and simpler pace.

Take the current surface area of Iceland and subtract the linear distance between there and Pago Pago. Divide this by the square root of Joe Offer. (I use Joe here as this will help him in his married life since very few males have a square root, problems can arise.....so to speak. I have no "personal" knowledge of Joe's current situation but I'm inclined to believe he may be in need of a little help as I overheard his wife describe Joe's equipment as a "melting fudgcicle, flanked by two jelly beans.") In any case, take this total and multiply it by the number of clocks in your home, less the number of dead wristwatches in your upper right hand dresser drawer. Add the difference total (in minutes) of the aforementioned clocks and divide by the average versus the time on your current wristwatch. You can now differentiate under the equal sign to calculate the value of X, that being the time where you live. Don't forget to use the value of pi as a constant...and since the value of pie at diners between Toronto and Buffalo is $1.75 (US), use that (1.75) instead of the more traditional 3.14159 figure.

Putting it all together you can now readily see that when it is 3:30 P.M., May 24, 2002 in Otswego, it's 2:48 P.M.,October 18, 1893 in Waycross, Georgia. Of course it's always that time in Waycross so don't be confused.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:32 PM

It's all Kim's fault. It was a decent thread exactly until she posted Treten Sie das (actually: den) Arsch! which means Kick the arse and everybody including those who didn't understand did it.

Now what Kim actually had wanted to say was of course kick the ball(s) which is completely innocent in the context of this thread and she got two words mixed up in her German dictionary of four letter words. That's all and can we talk balls now again?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:39 PM

Crucify me I was only trying to be helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:40 PM

i fink the finel is at 12.00 (dinnertime) Hull time.john

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:41 PM

Well geez Wolfgang, I did mention Joe's balls in my time post......

But speaking of balls........Any thoughts as the WC wraps up as to the influence the new ball had on the games themselves? Adidas made some powerful claims as to it's characteristics such as the fact it doesn't deform when struck and hence allows a better and more accurate flight path....blah,blah,blah................In early reports prior to the Cup games it was reported by several players that it felt flat and that they tended to shoot high. There were a lot of high shots in the matches but were there more than usual? Did the ball have a greater effect on say Euro teams than the Brazilian style teams or vice versa? Just wondering what other thoughts are or what you might have heard.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: mooman
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:52 PM

'Spaw, I think this problem might be solvable by using brass balls and a playing surface of quartersawn Englemann spruce. This ought to provide a perfect pitch and prevent high action as experienced. Also Rick might probably pay good money for it...

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:54 PM

Well, 'Spaw, I did notice there were very few home runs.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 01:57 PM

Okay, Wolfgang, what's the right way to say KICK ASS? ;-) I was just answering the question in the original post. And my dictionary does sort of suck...

But I didn't have anything to do with the time thing!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: allanwill
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 02:02 PM

"When it's nightime in Italy, it's Wednesday over here" - Barry Dransfield.

Ahem, without wishing to brag, I did suggest early on that Germany would make the final, so I'll have to go for them - Germany 3, Brazil 2.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 02:25 PM

alinact: I'm going for an old-fashioned England v Germany final, with England to reign supreme.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 02:37 PM

Well I think my predictions have been the most accurate to date. Go ahead check it out Wolfgang.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 03:24 PM

Mrrzy - "I can't bring myself to root for Germany! Yikes!"
Why is that then, Mrrzy?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 05:21 AM

Maybe this post is only interesting for Mark, but who knows. I'm going to post about two completely different approaches to the games of two top referees of this world cup.

The one is Urs Meier (Switzerland) and the other Pierluigi Collina (Italy). Meier was the referee in the semi-final between Germany and Korea, Collina will do the final.

Meier is careful not to read (or watch) anything about the teams for he thinks that he is less influencable if he knows less. So for instance when he showed Ballack the yellow card he really didn't know that this meant Ballack was not to play in the final. Meier later said in an interview he is very sorry about the yellow card but he made clear that he is sorry for the young player who is denied the chance to play in the final and not for his decision which he still thinks was correct. BTW, though it is a pity that the only creative player of Germany will be missing (Brazil has about 8 of at least his class among the 11 playing) everybody in the German team agrees that the yellow card was correct without any doubt.

Collina is known to watch videos of the teams over and over in order to be informed about every possible detail. He wants to know who only falls when unavoidable and who likes play acting. He wants to know what players use to do when they think the referee is not watching. He thinks he is a better referee when is is preinformed. Two completely different approaches can both lead to brilliant preformances. I guess the rare erros of both will be in slightly different directions, however.

And look at them both when they are in action. Meier is much less visible than Collina. His idea of a perfect job is when one player says to the other after the game "Did we actually have a referee and if yes who was it?". Collina makes sure no one forgets who the referee was and what a domineering role he had.

Watch Collina on Sunday when the game has a dull moment. There once was a 90 min film only showing a close-up of George Best during a game. I'd love to see such a film only about Collina.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: mooman
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 06:52 AM

I agree Wolfgang!

Mr Collina can make the dullest game something to treasure!

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:36 AM

for Kim only: I think the composite word Arschtritt would be a good translation in most circumstances.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:55 AM

To some of you these news may be contrary to your preconceptions: Brazil today had an extra training session in - penalty shooting

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:42 AM

You know a game is really boring when the referee is one of the most interesting subjects of conversation. yours, Peter T. (unregenerate soccer unfan)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:43 AM

Aha! Ich verstehe! Danke Wolfgang. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Gervase
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:06 PM

To get back to balls (and why does that sem so apt when 'Spaw posts!?)
The new balls have made a massive difference to the game. The other night on UK TV they showed the 1970 England-Brazil game, played with an old-fashioned leather ball, and the style of play was vastly different to today's long-passing, fast-flowing game. To punt the bal just half-way down the pitch required a helluva kick, and the work in the air, using head, chest and whatever, was much more gentle than the players today (which is hardly surprising, given the risk of concussion with the old-style balls!).
For myself, I just wish they'd had the new plastic jobbies back when I was a kid - I still have 'orrible memories of being thwacked by a sodden lump of leather weighing as much as a medicine ball during compulsory games at my prep school. And of having to dub my leather boots with massive amounts of grease after every game lest they turn into concrete.
As for Sunday - neither team inspires, but I reckon Brazil by one goal.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Den
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:48 PM

With you on that one Gervase and wasn't it such a joy to head those balls when the rain was belting down and you ended up with a nice big round mud spot on your forehead. The new balls are very light a team-mate brought one to our practise the other night and they rise very easily. Now I know that we are not of the calibre of Henry, Vieri and company but I can see why some of the best strikers in the world were blasting the ball well over the bar. Den

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:58 PM

Henry, Vieri and company went out at the first stage without scoring a goal.

Hardly great calibre..

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Den
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 05:14 PM

I was speaking about thier reputation and the new balls. Henry didn't score in the world cup but he was the leading scorer this season in the English Premiership and actually Vieri scored four goals with Italy who made it to the final 16. You were probably confusing Vieri with Vieira (France) a common mistake for someone who can't tell the diffrence between a striker and a central midfielder

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 06:53 PM

.... not to mention one being white and the other black...

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: Den
Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:46 AM

I think there's the makings of a joke there Bulfrog.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup Final
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Jun 02 - 12:27 PM

Den, says that the "new balls are very light", they are the same weight as the old "pig-skins", the difference being that the old ball`s outer casing absorved water. Ard Mhacha.