Origins: Charlie O Charlie

Subject: Scottish words
From: toadfrog
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:18 PM

Someone was asking about a "Chairly O Chairly," and I remembered this song, which was recorded by Ewan McColl on "Scottish Popular Songs," (Folkways No. FW8757, 1961) the liner notes are truly weird, and often do not either look like the song as I heard it, or the glossary of scottish words on this marvellous Website. Can anyone help? I'll bold the parts that are most puzzling. (I do not include the non-conforming spellings which simply imitate ordinary English pronunciations, like "cum" for "come" or "yur" for "your" or "pit" for "put.")
Also, just what is the song about? Is it just a song about country life, or is it political?

CHARLIE O CHARLIE

O Charlie O Charlie come oot fippet gair
And I'll gae ye oer tae your orders,
For a' man a war [awa'?] tae the high hill and hells [highland hills?]
For a while tae leave the bonnie boch and borders. [Buchan borders?]

O Charlie O Charlie, tak notice fit I sae [say?]
And fit every man to his station,
For a' man a war [awa'?] tae the high hill and hells [highland hills?]
For tae view a' the pearts o' the nation.

Tae the lousen, ye'll put Shaw
Ye'll put Sanderson tae lor Tae the callin' ye'll put a' dandra [old Andrew?]kate nas.Ye'll gard callin' hell [gar Collin Hill?] aye tae feed the threshin' mill,
And ye'll see that he daren't weaken in faintness.

Tae the gatherin' o' the hay,
Ye'll put little Isa [Lisa?] Grey,
And Wi' her ye'll put her cousin Peggy.
And underneath the barns, its there ye'll put your arns
And ye'll see that they dare tae act tidy.

And for you, Wally Bard
Ye'll carry on mistard
And keep a' the lasses a howlin[hoeing?]
And ye'll take care o' Jake or he'll play you a trick,
And set a' your merry maids a mowin'.

And for you Annie Scot [Scott?] ye'll put on the muckle pot,
And ye'll mark til [mak' tae?] them pottage in plenty,

For yon hungry grossegs are comin' fippet gair
And they're kippet aye sae bare [pair?] and sae scanty.

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:41 PM

It sounds at first glance to be non-political - in other words, it's not about THAT Charlie at all. Seems to be more of a cornkister.. a farming bothy ballad describing who is going to do what work in the harvest. Maybe from up by Aberdeen area? Anyway, for what it's worth, the words might be:

Frae Pitcarr ( from Pitcarr a place name, or maybe a farm)

For I maun awa' ( For I'm must go away)

hills and dales (maybe?)

Buchan borders (leave the county of Buchan)

Lousen ( ousen - oxen)

Lor (law - could be a local landmark - eg Berwick Law)

Tae the callin ( ca'ing - pulling)

a'dandra kate-nas (Auld Andra Caithness - Andrew)

gard ( gar' - make or bid)

calling hell (Colin Hill)

Isa (could be Isa - short for Isa-bel)

arns (irons - farm implement?)

mistard ( as mustard? - act the fool)

Howling ( in context I'd say howling was right)

mark til (mak' tae seems ok)

grossegs ( I've heard gossan - a ne'er-do-well )

kippet aye sae bare ( could be local for poorly dressed)

Subject: Add: Oh Charlie O Charlie
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:40 PM

Well, there are certainly some bizarre moments in that transcription! I don't think I've heard the MacColl recording, but it looks very much like the set in John Ord's Bothy Songs and Ballads (1930; reprinted 1995), with the final verse omitted. There are also several sets in the Greig-Duncan Collection (volume 3, which I haven't seen yet), but I don't know how close they are; likely they didn't vary a great deal. Probably any of those could have been MacColl's source; there was also a BBC field recording made in 1950. It's just a slice of life; no political sub-text.

OH CHARLIE, O CHARLIE

O Charlie, O Charlie, come owre frae Pitgair,
And I'll gie ye out all your orders,
For I maun awa to yon high Hielan' hills,
For a while to leave the bonnie Buchan borders.

O Charlie, O Charlie, tak' notice what I say,
And put every man to his station,
For I'm gaun awa to yon high Hielan' hills,
For to view a' the pairts o' the nation.

Tae the loosin' ye'll put Shaw, ye'll put Sandison to ca',
To the colin ye'll put auld Andrew Kindness.
Ye'll gar Colliehill aye feed the thrashin' mill,
An' see that he dee't wi' great fineness.

To the gatherin' o' the hay, ye'll put little Isa Gray,
And wi' her ye'll put her cousin Peggy;
And in aneath the bands, its there ye'll put your hands,
And ye'll see that they dee't richt tidy.

As for you, Willy Burr, ye'll carry on the stir,
And ye'll keep a' the lasses a-hyowin',
And beware o' Shaw and Jeck, or they'll play you a trick,
And set a' your merry maids a-mowin'.

And for you, Annie Scott, ye'll put on the muckle pot
And ye'll mak' milk pottage a-plenty,
For yon hungry brosers that's comin' frae Pitgair,
And they're keepit aye sae bare scanty.

O Charlie, O Charlie, sae early's you'll rise,
And see a' my merry men yokin';
And you, Missy Pope, ye'll sit in the parlour neuk
And keep a' my merry men frae smokin'.

Roud Folk Song Index number 2584.

From John Ord's Bothy Songs and Ballads (1930; reprinted 1995). Ord didn't say where he got the song, but he did print a tune for it. A midi can be heard, until it gets to Mudcat Midis, via the South Riding Folk Network site:

Oh Charlie, O Charlie (midi)

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:58 AM

Well that's cleared it up for me too. I've been wondering for years about these bunny- fucking boarders.

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 04:10 AM

The Greig-Duncan versions come in under the title Pitgair, 7 versions (A-G), all but the last with tunes. The A version has 2 extra verses, the B version all but the last verse, when comared to the Ord version. (I'll put up the A version later when I've a bit more time later).(And as Malcolm says the McColl trancription has its moments!)

The notes state: "This is [a] Banffshire song, and of comparatively recent date. Pitgair is a farm in the parish of Gamrie, and the characters referred to - the chief ones at least, can be identified. The song, unsurpassed among local pastorals, for simplicity and natural truth, is said to have been written by a man named Shaw, who was long beadle at Alvah and had considerable local reputation as a rhymer and as a character...."(G.Ob 51) ."We do not as a rule set much store by traditions as to authorship.When they merely give us the name of a man otherwise unknown, even should the information be true, we have got vox et praeterea nihil. But Shaw is credited with other local songs, such as [316]"Mrs Greig of Sandlaw" and "Lucky Duff"[373 Brunties]"(G. Folk Songs in Buchan p75)..."It seems that [Shaw] published a booklet of verse. Mr. Ord says he once had a copy, but gave it away, and never got it back. He remembers some of the songs that were in it, and has heard Shaw himself sing some of them; but never "O Charlie, O Charlie", adding, however, that he never heard anyone dispute Shaw's claim to it, and calling attention to the fact that Shaw's own name occurs in the song" (G Ob 102). The "old Andrew Kindness" mentioned in the song is likely to be the man of this name who was sixty-six in 1881. Isabella Gray, also mentioned, was thirty-four in the same year (Cen E.B., Gamrie, 1881). Greig notes at Argo 3.13 that "Spence senior [ie Thomas Spence] knew Shaw etc, Colliehill and A.Kindness".

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 05:44 AM

Here's version A from Greig-Duncan

Mick

PITGAIR

Charlie, O Charlie, come owre frae Pitgair,
Or I gie ye out a' your orders,
For I'm gaun awa' to yon high Hielan' hills,
To leave a' this low Buchan borders.

O Charlie, O Charlie, tak' notice what I say,
And put every man to his station,
For I'm gaun awa to yon high Hielan' hills,
For to view a' the parts o' the nation.

To the lowsin' ye'll pit Shaw, ye'll pit Sandieson to ca'
To the colin ye'll pit Andrew Kindness,
And auld Colliehill he'll feed the mill
And see that he dee't wi' great fineness.

Ye'll pit Eppie to the mill and Janet to the cole
And the ither twa men for to carry,
And as for George and Jeck ye'll pit them to the rake
And see that they do not tarry.

To the gatherin' o' the hay, ye'll pit little Isa Gray
And wi' her ye'll pit her cousin Peggy
And it's in below the bands its there ye'll pit your hands
And see that they do it right tidy.

It's you Willy Burr ye'll carry on the stir
And ye'll keep a' the young maids a-hoein'
And ye'll tak' care o' Jeck, or he'll play you a trick
And will set a your merry maids a-mowin'.

And it's you Annie Scott ye'll pit on the muckle pot
And mak' unto them porridge plenty
For yon hungry brosiers that's comin' frae Pitgair (*)
They live both bare and scanty.

Ye'll tak' little Annie Mack frae the colin' o' the quack (+)
To help ye . . . . the denner for to carry
And at the hour o' one ye will mak' then a' to stan'
At the mull for a moment to tarry.

O Charlie, O Charlie, so early's ye'll rise
And see a' my merry men yokin'
And you Missy Pope ye'll sit in the parlour neuk
And keep a' my merry men frae smokin'.

(*) brose-eaters
(+) cutting; bog

  Source: Greig-Duncan collection vol3, Version A
          from John Quirrie
  The notes add: "August 1906. Learned from Northfield of Gamrie, 1869"
  

---

And the tune:

PITGAIR

(O)| Char-lie O Char-lie come owre frae Pit-gair
And| I'll gie oot a' my|oth-ers
For| I'm gaun a-wa to yon|high Hie-lan' hills
To |leave a' this low Buch-an|Bor-ders||

X: 1
T:Pitgair
M:C
L:1/8
S:Greig-Duncan from John Quirrie
K:A dor
G|A2 A> G E2 E> E|c2 B> A B2 z
G|A2 A c3 E2 D> E| G2 A2 z2
(AB)|c2 c> c d2 c> d|e2 A> G E2
(EG)|A2 F E D2 E F|G2 A2 z3||


The 2nd F# in the penultimate bar has F natural given as an alternative.

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: toadfrog
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 11:28 PM

Thanks a whole lot, Malcolm and Guests!!!!!!!!

The liner notes do include that final verse, but I ran out of steam before I got that far. MacColl's only comment on the source is "I learned this song from the singing of John Mearns of Fyvie." He does not mention John Ord. The first three bands on that record are "Barnyards of Delgaty," "Highland Muster Roll," and "Wee Wee German Lairdie," all on DT and all credited to MacColl, although not to this disk.

A comment I've heard about MacColl, at least in the 1960's, is that he appears to have wanted to be encyclopedic and sacrificed quality for quantity. Although the quality of

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 08:56 AM

John Mearns was recorded by the BBC singing this song in February of 1950 (BBC recording number 14404), according to the Roud Folk Song Index. That was the recording I referred to earlier. He was recorded at various times during the early '50s, his repertoire including The Barnyards o' Delgaty; The Bonny Lass o' Fyvie; Drumdelgie; The Guise o' Tough; Johnny Sangster and other standards of the Northeastern tradition.

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:26 PM

Heartfelt thanks to all who contributed to making this song intelligible, including toadfrog who put up the first version. I'll try and check it against my Archie Fisher recording (on 'Will Ye Gang Love', 1976).

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 05:28 PM

MacColl sang this on another record than _Scottish Popular Songs_, viz. _Scots Folk Songs_ (Riverside RLP 12-609), and provided a text there as well, which coincides pretty nearly (except for spelling) with John Ord's version given here by Malcolm Douglas. He also provides a glossary, in which "brosetts" is explained as "soup eaters"! I am grateful to MCP for pointing out the existence of the word "brose".

I have always had trouble making sense of "frae Pitgair" with "Pitgair" a place name. If Charlie is in Pitgair and I am not, how can Charlie hear me? I am to imagine that I am writing him a letter, or perhaps giving him instructions over the telephone %^)? Like Toadfrog, I first heard this song on _Scottish Popular Songs_, and my immediate take on "fippet gair" was that it meant "gare [= keen, eager] as a whippet". (I gather from other songs that wh- sometimes became f- in Scotland.) That seems like the kind of thing one might yell across a barnyard.

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: GUEST,Glade
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 07:12 PM

Many, many thanks for the "O, Charley" lyrics. I can enjoy Archie Fisher's "Will Ye Gang, Lass" without going 'whaaaaat on earth was that all about' glade

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: Jim McLean
Date: 18 May 03 - 11:27 AM

I noticed that the tune to 'I had a Wee Cock' (honest!!)found in the Mudcat MIDIs is pretty well the same as that printed in Ord, 1930, for Chairlie, oh Chairlie. The notes to 'I had ..' in the Digi Trad are interesting.
Jim McLean

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: GUEST,Nicol Kindness
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:56 AM

The song covers the "harvest" or "Hairst" held at Pitgair , a location in Gamrie Banffshire. I believe it was written by a local clergyman possibly from Alvah near Banff

Andrew Kindness was my Great Great Grandfather and his wife was Annie Scott. Andrew died at Midhill of Pitgair in 1900

The song is a bothy ballad and retells of an era when there was no farm machinery and the crofters had to help one another in some of the major tasks

Nicol Kindness

Subject: RE: Help: Charlie O Charlie
From: Stewie
Date: 31 May 04 - 08:18 PM

MacColl and Seeger had it as #34 in the 'Men at Work' section of 'The Singing Ireland' [page 39]. There are minor differences to the versions given above. Interestingly, it has 'hungry grosets'. No source given, only this note:

It is unusual to find a completely sympathetic portrait of a farmer in a bothy song for the bothy heroes are the ploughmen and the horses that they drive. The farmer is usually the enemy, the mean unscrupulous exploiter who drives his men hard, starves his horses and generally plays the villain. In this song, however, the farmer is portrayed as a kindly paternal figure. The thread of tender irony which runs through the text helps to make the portrait a realistic one. The song provides an interesting picture of life on a large farm during harvest time. [Peggy Seeger and Ewan MacColl 'The Singing Island' Mills Music Ltd 1960, p 36.]

The suggestion by S&M is that the song be sung 'Confidentially'.


--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Origins: Charlie O Charlie
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 May 04 - 08:39 PM

I didn't have that book when this old thread was new, but I do now. MacColl does actually cite a source (on p. 110), but it's himself. He gives a reference to the set in Ord, too.

"Singing Ireland"?

Subject: RE: Origins: Charlie O Charlie
From: Stewie
Date: 31 May 04 - 09:42 PM

Thanks, Malcolm, I forgot to look in the back. 'Singing Ireland' was a freudian slip or something: I'm quite fond of English and Scots songs - honest!

--Stewie.